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I think maybe a sex therapist could help her in that he/she could help to understand how your desire for her works so that she sees it as a positive thing and not a thing to be questioned or "dealt with." The very idea of her seeing it that way makes me sad for her and for you quite honestly. I think it's a very positive thing that she feels she can give you her body in a loving way so at least you have something to work with as your approaching the problem and how to deal with it.
 

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Hi! New to the forum. I can offer my story and am also eager to hear other opinions on it.
I am 47, married for 13 years, 2nd marriage. 1st was an early mistake, luckily no kids. With my wife I have a son 9yo and her son 20yo lives with us.
She is truly the love of my life and she has completely changed me and made me the man that I am today in so many aspects.
At first our sex was incredible, total match. We both are not about long sex sessions but like it quick and sweet, with no “gymnastics”. She can come easily and as quick as me.
Quickly after we married I got diagnosed with diabetes T1 which for 4 years I could handle with activity and diet. But I lost too much weight and after our son was born I realised that I should start with insulin therapy.
I was never a “wood” kind of guy and my errection tended to be very dependent on my mental state. But after couple of years od diabetes it became really awful and I came to a really dark state, having fear of initiating sex because couple of times I could not perform.
At that point because of circumstances (demanding baby, financial crisis, forced moving etc) sex was not our focus for almost 2 years.
Then when it all settled I got the prescription for Viagra and I tried it and it worked really well. I thought that will be it... BUT
now we come to the topic.
I have 3 ways to go each days, all 3 bad ones, and so we are stuck in having no sex for a long long time...
1) I can discuss having sex today with my wife early enough, during the day. This TOTALLY kills spontaneity and we both find it awful. Our whole lives are so planed for that if we also do it in our intimacy it becomes an obligation.
2) I can take the pill almost everyday minus period days and then “make the move”. If she is OK great if not, not. I tried that but it creates a lot of pressure on me since first its not really without side effects and second it is really not a cheap sport.
3) She can signal that she is for it enough ahead. This is a no go for her because it seems then for her that she is pushing for sex.

So that is my story and after almost 5 years we both dont know how to work it out. Our marriage is constantly on the edge, although everything else works great.
Because I have mostly come to peace with what happened to me, I could
live in a sexless marriage, but it is not fair to her because she is 46 and still has a lot of fun years ahead.
Off course, if I found the right way I would really like for our sex life to come back.
 

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Hi! New to the forum. I can offer my story and am also eager to hear other opinions on it.
I am 47, married for 13 years, 2nd marriage. 1st was an early mistake, luckily no kids. With my wife I have a son 9yo and her son 20yo lives with us.
She is truly the love of my life and she has completely changed me and made me the man that I am today in so many aspects.
At first our sex was incredible, total match. We both are not about long sex sessions but like it quick and sweet, with no “gymnastics”. She can come easily and as quick as me.
Quickly after we married I got diagnosed with diabetes T1 which for 4 years I could handle with activity and diet. But I lost too much weight and after our son was born I realised that I should start with insulin therapy.
I was never a “wood” kind of guy and my errection tended to be very dependent on my mental state. But after couple of years od diabetes it became really awful and I came to a really dark state, having fear of initiating sex because couple of times I could not perform.
At that point because of circumstances (demanding baby, financial crisis, forced moving etc) sex was not our focus for almost 2 years.
Then when it all settled I got the prescription for Viagra and I tried it and it worked really well. I thought that will be it... BUT
now we come to the topic.
I have 3 ways to go each days, all 3 bad ones, and so we are stuck in having no sex for a long long time...
1) I can discuss having sex today with my wife early enough, during the day. This TOTALLY kills spontaneity and we both find it awful. Our whole lives are so planed for that if we also do it in our intimacy it becomes an obligation.
2) I can take the pill almost everyday minus period days and then “make the move”. If she is OK great if not, not. I tried that but it creates a lot of pressure on me since first its not really without side effects and second it is really not a cheap sport.
3) She can signal that she is for it enough ahead. This is a no go for her because it seems then for her that she is pushing for sex.

So that is my story and after almost 5 years we both dont know how to work it out. Our marriage is constantly on the edge, although everything else works great.
Because I have mostly come to peace with what happened to me, I could
live in a sexless marriage, but it is not fair to her because she is 46 and still has a lot of fun years ahead.
Off course, if I found the right way I would really like for our sex life to come back.
If you are looking for some suggestions or comments on YOUR situation, you should post this in your own thread, so people will see it! Then you'll get lots of responses!!

WELCOME!!! :)
 

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Not a reply I was expecting, but I would argue that you are wrong. If you take a couple that at first things worked great but over time intimacy becomes problematic... I do think the things that improve desire not only can be negotiated but that they should be negotiated. A common example is a spouse that does not "try" can be encouraged to improve his/her efforts. Perhaps this is a husband (with ample desire) that does not allow for enough foreplay and if the wife requests more foreplay it actually does stand a chance to improve her desire for more sex. Same goes if a husband (with ample desire) has gained too much weight and it has made sex awkward/uncomfortable for the wife. She can ask him to loose weight or at least try to work on improving his health.
Imagine your wife is super horny and is looking at you like prey. And she uses all her feminine beauty and power to put her moves on you.... I’m sure it not only puts you in the mood, but it makes you feel great.

Do you want your wife to be like do you want a blow job? Or do you want her to just get in her knees and give you that look.
 

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I hate to be asked. It ruins the mood. I also like my hubby to smack my ass and tell me damn that hot ass belongs to me. I am a feminist, but I like to be treated like this in the bedroom. It’s personally what I’m attracted to.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I have 3 ways to go each days, all 3 bad ones, and so we are stuck in having no sex for a long long time...
1) I can discuss having sex today with my wife early enough, during the day. This TOTALLY kills spontaneity and we both find it awful. Our whole lives are so planed for that if we also do it in our intimacy it becomes an obligation.
My story is different in that my wife has an incredibly busy schedule during the day and sex is a no-go for us in the evenings as it interferes with her ability to sleep. So if it happens for us, we have to plan and make time in her schedule for it to happen. If I try to be spontaneous, those times have proven to be so disruptive to her schedule that she suffers for days catching up and blames me for it.

My wife has come up with a theory (after reading about marriages) that a certain amount of "maintenance sex" is needed to keep a relationship healthy. This would be different from pity sex or chore sex because the purpose of maintenance sex is for both to try and make a sexual connection that serves to nourish the relationship. It is not an easy thing to do and it takes both agreeing to a certain mindset to not make things stressful and to try and help each other relax.

It took my wife many years to develop this attitude that kind of serves as a baseline and a safety net for our intimacy. It is all based upon an agreed upon frequency. So when schedules get too busy and nothing happens naturally, making time for one another gets shifted into top priority and we make it happen.

I think understanding each other's minimal frequencies (how often sex is needed in order to both of you feel loved) is a key part pf this. Once this is understood it takes away the anxiety of one person feeling neglected and how much patience can be extended when needed.

When spontaneity just doesn't tend to work, as a couple you have to learn what things help improve anticipation. This may include being more playful and flirtatious during moments sex can't happen without a fear of someone's feeling getting hurt because at some point you know it will happen.

At the end of the day it is indeed a challenge.

Badsanta
 

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If you are looking for some suggestions or comments on YOUR situation, you should post this in your own thread, so people will see it! Then you'll get lots of responses!!

WELCOME!!! :)
Hi LisaDiane, I certainly will with time and perhaps in a bit greater length since there are some aspects that need more space to explain.
Here I just wanted to participate in the discussion about spontaneous vs planned sex, since in my case it is crucial thing in my marriage and a lot depends on how we will resolve it.
 

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My story is different in that my wife has an incredibly busy schedule during the day and sex is a no-go for us in the evenings as it interferes with her ability to sleep. So if it happens for us, we have to plan and make time in her schedule for it to happen. If I try to be spontaneous, those times have proven to be so disruptive to her schedule that she suffers for days catching up and blames me for it.

My wife has come up with a theory (after reading about marriages) that a certain amount of "maintenance sex" is needed to keep a relationship healthy. This would be different from pity sex or chore sex because the purpose of maintenance sex is for both to try and make a sexual connection that serves to nourish the relationship. It is not an easy thing to do and it takes both agreeing to a certain mindset to not make things stressful and to try and help each other relax.

It took my wife many years to develop this attitude that kind of serves as a baseline and a safety net for our intimacy. It is all based upon an agreed upon frequency. So when schedules get too busy and nothing happens naturally, making time for one another gets shifted into top priority and we make it happen.

I think understanding each other's minimal frequencies (how often sex is needed in order to both of you feel loved) is a key part pf this. Once this is understood it takes away the anxiety of one person feeling neglected and how much patience can be extended when needed.

When spontaneity just doesn't tend to work, as a couple you have to learn what things help improve anticipation. This may include being more playful and flirtatious during moments sex can't happen without a fear of someone's feeling getting hurt because at some point you know it will happen.

At the end of the day it is indeed a challenge.

Badsanta
Great
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Imagine your wife is super horny
My wife claims she does not understand what it means when people say they are horny. She claims to never feels a need or desire for sex and says she would be perfectly happy without it ever again.

On the other hand she is extremely capable of responding to me once I get her in the mood. But getting her in the mood is often as enigmatic as trying to figure out how David Blaine just hid an antique photo inside an unopened WWI ration of your great great grandfather holding up a playing card you just signed ten seconds ago. You know it probably took a lot of preparation and clever mentalism.
 

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My wife doesn’t respect when I overthink things... I imagine your wife is the same.. seems a bit cowardly perhaps to women when men don’t just go after what they want- when and how they want it.

But, a bit of class helps too. It would be foolhardy to make a move when she’s had a rough day or not feeling good. So I’m not saying you can just go for it every day. I think men are called to just read the situation and act. Asking for sex is a fools errand except perhaps when you’ve got no other choice.... like say you’re super frustrated and leaving on a business trip for a week and she’s exhausted and feeling frumpy and uninterested... situations like that I think it fair for a man to ask for a quickie... but I wouldn’t abuse it.

Scheduling just seems a bit odd and desperate and a bit of a “covert contract”... seems like it would never work for long.
 

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It doesn’t work because a woman wants a man that already knows what to do to her, with her, and because of her. She doesn’t want to be responsible for the things done... even if she silently wants them. She would rather be taken with passion instead of timidly asked for permission. If your relationship has eroded into her being the partner responsible for the couples sexuality then the battle is lost and her sexuality is locked away. Asking permission is only reinforcing the failure.
As an aside, I feel badly for men...women want to be taken not asked but if they take without asking they haven't gotten consent and that's a bad thing. How is a guy to know what to do? In the beginning of our relationship BF would ask for consent and I finally said "we're in a relationship, you never have to ask that again...if I don't want to consent, you'll know even without asking." It works for us. It might not work for everybody.
This 1000%. So true for me. I don't want to be responsible for it. I don't want the acts to be my idea. I want to be "made to do things". Yes, sometimes you want to keep your wants silent (or even resist it). But just be "taken". Pretty taboo now and maybe like playing with fire.

I certainly aren't trying to speak for all women but I think this is very common. But notmyjamie points out the obvious problem here. The WORST thing a man can do to a woman is to REALLY do it without consent and sometimes that line can be unclear unless you ask permission for everything. That's usually unforgivable and there could obviously be worse consequences for him. The stakes are high here. Today men are taught this in society so it's not surprising that many men try to "just be sure it's OK". Although this might be conditioned more for sex outside of relationships where there is no trust and misunderstandings are more likely, I think that it also affects the way men act in relationships too.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
This 1000%. So true for me. I don't want to be responsible for it. I don't want the acts to be my idea. I want to be "made to do things". Yes, sometimes you want to keep your wants silent (or even resist it). ....
Now put the shoe on the other foot if you can and imagine your spouse's desire works primarily by not wanting to take any responsibility.

In my personal opinion that attitude may be a self defense mechanism that results from low self confidence. Therefor you borrow your partner's self confidence and hope they know how to do the right thing. If that fails then it was not your fault because you took no responsibility. Do that for a prolonged period of time and it comes across as downright abusive to a partner that may be struggling to love you. If he asks for help, that then ruins the possibility perhaps because you might become responsible for when things just don't tend to work or getting in the mood becomes challenging.

That is my opinion at this point. Seriously imagine the shoe on the other foot. Many women on this forum have husband's that take no initiative and leave all the responsibility up to her. The women in those relationships just make it work for a while but over time it takes a toll.

Why can't both people in a marriage work together and both take responsibility? Why does it always have to be one or the other?
 

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Now put the shoe on the other foot if you can and imagine your spouse's desire works primarily by not wanting to take any responsibility.

In my personal opinion that attitude may be a self defense mechanism that results from low self confidence. Therefor you borrow your partner's self confidence and hope they know how to do the right thing. If that fails then it was not your fault because you took no responsibility. Do that for a prolonged period of time and it comes across as downright abusive to a partner that may be struggling to love you. If he asks for help, that then ruins the possibility perhaps because you might become responsible for when things just don't tend to work or getting in the mood becomes challenging.

That is my opinion at this point. Seriously imagine the shoe on the other foot. Many women on this forum have husband's that take no initiative and leave all the responsibility up to her. The women in those relationships just make it work for a while but over time it takes a toll.

Why can't both people in a marriage work together and both take responsibility? Why does it always have to be one or the other?
I would think if this is happening, you'd have to come up with some kind of more evened out way of doing things. I do initiate with my boyfriend sometimes and sometimes I even "take over" and be the one in charge. He likes it once in a while and so I like to make him happy. Just like it makes me feel wanted when he takes it, he feels the same way when I take it. If he told me he needed it to be that way more often I'd even things out. My goal in our relationship, both sexual and non sexual is for us both to be happy because both our needs are being met.

I think your question shouldn't be "why can't both people work together" but more "why aren't they?" because really that's the way it should be in a healthy relationship.
 

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I completely agree with OnTheFly's simple answer: Desire can't be negotiated.

I mean, you are both either leaning toward each other or you're not. Sure, communication might help you overcome if there is a specific thing that is making the partner mad enough to pull away from you, like you not helping with housework or recognizing how exhausted the other is from childcare and finding solutions there (there are no solutions other than both working as hard as the other to keep up, I guess). But as far as losing the spark, I mean, it just happens with time and familiarity. Asking won't change a thing. It's always worth a shot changing things up and planning a childless vacation weekend, but if that's done with the expectation of sex, it will just ruin it. It has to be about just getting away and having fun and just seeing if it changes the mood any. It has to be about reconnecting like you used to before the kids, reminding yourselves why you loved each other to begin with.

If things aren't working, then change things up. If you are always having to get rejected for sex, stop asking and take up an outside hobby. You still have to be sharing responsibility for the kids and home though. But what's the worst that can happen if you take up fishing or golf or river rafting for the weekend and shake things up a bit? 1) It gets you in a better mood. 2) It breaks the monotony for both of you. 3) It may give the spouse some needed space 4) Because you are doing something full of life and fun, it makes YOU seem more interesting, full of life, and fun 5) It gives you something new to talk about 6) It might make the spouse want to share that with you sometime.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I think your question shouldn't be "why can't both people work together" but more "why aren't they?" because really that's the way it should be in a healthy relationship.
That is a good point. In the context of a relationship where sexual intimacy has become problematic and a HD spouse has to ask if/when it is OK to initiate... the other can't sit back, take no responsibility and have actual desires that are kept silent hoping that the other will just naturally figure it out.

In my case I likely have high functioning autism, so my wife had to discover that and help me out by explaining how her feelings work when I get confused or I am unaware. She now communicates her needs much better. But expecting someone with autistic behavior to just instinctively understand a spouse's feelings and know how to make all the right moves indefinitely... that is about like expecting Netflix to freaking wow you every single time with new movie suggestions when you are ten years into the subscription (at some point the viewer has to put in some effort into finding something good to watch).
 

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That is a good point. In the context of a relationship where sexual intimacy has become problematic and a HD spouse has to ask if/when it is OK to initiate... the other can't sit back, take no responsibility and have actual desires that are kept silent hoping that the other will just naturally figure it out.

In my case I likely have high functioning autism, so my wife had to discover that and help me out by explaining how her feelings work when I get confused or I am unaware. She now communicates her needs much better. But expecting someone with autistic behavior to just instinctively understand a spouse's feelings and know how to make all the right moves indefinitely... that is about like expecting Netflix to freaking wow you every single time with new movie suggestions when you are ten years into the subscription (at some point the viewer has to put in some effort into finding something good to watch).
There’s a few threads on here about why men tolerate disrespect, and why men are getting weak.
With all do respect reading this topic made me think Of that. It is not your responsibility to be fully In charge of your sexual relationship with your wife. And the fact that she has convinced you that it is, to me shows how manipulative and lazy and disrespectful she is.

Every single women knows men Love Sex. Period.
 

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This is a trend I have noticed in all my reading over the years between married couples. At some point sexual intimacy tends to break down and one person's advances for spontaneous intimacy get repeatedly rejected. Then at some point the person that gets rejected tries to improve communication by asking first if it is a good time to try and initiate or not. This however tends to be problematic.

If there is one problem I have noticed over all my reading is that spouses in a long term marriage (particularly women from what I have read) do NOT like to be asked if it is OK to have sex. They want things to just happen naturally. Why is this? Shouldn't improving communication and asking for consent versus a spouse getting rejecting during an advance make things easier?

And for those that reply this is a sign the relationship should be ended or that one spouse is no longer attracted to the other, or perhaps one person is gay, or having an affair... this is not about that. It is simply a question of why is it that trying to improve communication tends to spoil what could have been a good intimate moment together when a spouse asks for consent. As in, "this was going to be the perfect moment to have sex until the moment you asked if it would be OK and then that completely ruined it" complaint from a spouse.

Regards,
Badsanta
We both always make sure the other is 'interested' and ok with it before we have sex. I think it shows that you care about the others feelings and its fine with me.
 

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If things aren't working, then change things up. If you are always having to get rejected for sex, stop asking and take up an outside hobby. You still have to be sharing responsibility for the kids and home though. But what's the worst that can happen if you take up fishing or golf or river rafting for the weekend and shake things up a bit? 1) It gets you in a better mood. 2) It breaks the monotony for both of you. 3) It may give the spouse some needed space 4) Because you are doing something full of life and fun, it makes YOU seem more interesting, full of life, and fun 5) It gives you something new to talk about 6) It might make the spouse want to share that with you sometime.
Those are all good things/outcomes that can be had regardless of how one handles the mismatched desire for affection and sex.

Not sure the degree to which it was suggested one “change things up”. But, please consider some unexpected things that could happen by living your life as if it doesn’t matter whether or not you and your partner share affection and sexual intimacy:

1) a “new normal” sets in, one much less likely to be reversed than the “normal” you had.

2) you become disconnected enough to no longer avoid seeing the depth of your partner’s disinterest in, discomfort with, or even outright contempt for your emotional needs — if any of those apply.

Those are not necessarily bad things, should they come to be. But one should understand their potential for happening, and have a time-specific plan for recognizing and dealing with them.
 
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