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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

Something has been on my mind for quite some time. I love life and the universe and while this doesn't make me sad, I still think about it from time to time and wonder if there is anything I can do to improve (although I realize we are all unique and perfectly imperfect).
I don't know what it is, but something about the way I carry myself seems to put women off.

At first I thought it was my posture and health so I've corrected that by staying on top of it, eating healthy and doing daily exercise. I've lost considerable weight and gained lots of muscle. I don't have a beer belly and almost have a 6 pack (excited!!). I'm 25, white (not that it matters), have hair, don't smoke, good job, own a house, great circle of friends, etc. I am a very nice guy, and I learned how to be more alpha and extrovert (which took some practice). I've gotten many dates and for the most part I am fortunate to have had a good sex life. I don't have any fear inside nor do I get anxious around women. I can hold solid eye contact. Sometimes I think it has to do with my height (5'5) and basic biology (dominance and natural selection) and other times I think it's because I lack empathy (trouble feeling sorry for others and being sympathetic). I love to laugh and smile a lot, but my default face expression is quite cold. I've started to hang with more women to try and get to know them and take dance lessons; ultimately increasing my yin energy.

I've gotten over the height thing and I don't have any self-pity. I know I am sexy and I've had women confirm it. Other times I think, well, I am pretty busy, maybe I give off an air of impatience? Don't know...

Then I thought well maybe it was the fact that I am kind of a goof or aloof, careless, quiet (introverted). I have lots of women friends who like these traits of mine, and I don't care what women think of me. Either they like it or don't, but I don't seek approval from them anymore (haven't in a long time).

I love women, but don't know why they treat me like **** or are usually not interested. By treat like ****, I mean ignore me completely when I ask a question or talk. I don't act negatively when that happens and give off the napoleon complex. She's not interested, fine. I am not going to waste my time on someone like that.

I often feel like the universe is telling me I have a higher purpose and is deliberately ****blocking me to make more time for my dreams and goals. Lol. Perhaps it's the competitive environment too. There are lots of beautiful men around here. I don't know.

I've walked past so many women who I notice do a quick scan of me then look away with a little disgust. It's not judgement or perception. I know what I see. It's pretty obvious. I have good hygiene and wear nice, fitting clothes, so I don't understand. Even when I talk to women in a non-flirtatious way, either with friends or at work, they seem to scurry as if they feel unsafe around me.

Sometimes I wonder if it has to do with the fact that I grew up watching porn. I don't feel guilt or shame from it, but perhaps I objectify more then I believe I do and women can tell. Not like I am a creep, look desperate and peep every two seconds, but yeah, I feel like something about how I carry myself turns a lot of women off instantly.

Anyways, it seems the only women interested in me are unhealthy in some way or bbw. I believe in the laws of attraction, but you know I really don't have much negativity inside of me. I always try and view the world through the lens of love and avoid judging whenever possible. I used to think it was the girls in my city, but that's not fair. Maybe it's more of a rant then a question. Regardless, thank you for reading.

So ladies, what do you think? Any ideas? Why do I always get the cold shoulder. Despite everything I have said above, I really don't try hard and for the most part just go with the flow of life. I know everyone has their own opinions and perceptions and I can't get every woman to like me (that's ok, i'm cool with that), I'd like to make sure there is something I am not doing that could in fact be a simple answer.
 

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When a woman completely ignores what you say or ask, in what context would that be?

I think it must be something to do with your demeanor, mannerisms, etc. as you said, if you really think people turn away in disgust. Do you need to go to the dentist/have bad teeth? Do you stare intently at people or make no eye contact at all? Are you jumpy/jittery? (I once had a date with a very short man who was super fit but omg so jumpy/jittery I wanted to give him a Xanax).

I'm 5'5" and when I was doing OLD, I did not want to go out with someone of that height, sorry to say. However, if I see someone in person I'm attracted to and they are that height, I don't even think twice about their height, so OLD may not be best for you (and I know that is not what this post is about). Just two nights ago I was out to dinner with my mom and a guy in the band at the bar was about my height and I thought he was quite attractive.
 

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You have lots of threads where you mention your height but then say it isn't an issue for you. In this post above you sound very complicated, intense and yeah maybe a little self conscious. This is just a one dimensional medium but going from what you have written on TAM it comes across as you are projecting too much. Some therapy might be a good place to start, learn to just let it all go and be authentic.

Can you list in bullet form 5 of your best qualities. Don't overthink it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have great teeth. No I don't stare. Often I prefer not to make any eye contact at all unless I have to. I'm comfortable with eye contact though.

It depends on the the day. I am not jittery or jumpy, but I get passionate and excited really easily. I have a lot of enthusiasm for stuff. Generally speaking I am calm and quiet.

I've had lots of luck with OLD, but I am not even talking about dating at all. Just generally interacting with women. In the workplace, no problem. With my lady friends, no problem. With women strangers, problem. It's like the other day in the elevator there were all these women talkign about girl stuff...and in my head I was like "shoot me now". As much as I don't want to admit it, I think I have an unhealthy and negative view of women and that's what is impacting everything.

Yes I've mentioned height before, but lately that's not on my mind.

Of course I am self-conscious, (but I know I rock). The reason I provided so much information was that I believe it's necessary to find an answer. Kind of like algebra. It's not that I overthink this stuff, but it frustrates me that the answers aren't obvious.

My 5 best qualities?

-Witty/Comedic/Fun
-Deep thinker, Analytical.
-Loyal/Trustworthy
-Creative/Artistic
-Persistent.
-Generally carefree/aloof.
 

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I have great teeth. No I don't stare. Often I prefer not to make any eye contact at all unless I have to. I'm comfortable with eye contact though.

It depends on the the day. I am not jittery or jumpy, but I get passionate and excited really easily. I have a lot of enthusiasm for stuff. Generally speaking I am calm and quiet.

I've had lots of luck with OLD, but I am not even talking about dating at all. Just generally interacting with women. In the workplace, no problem. With my lady friends, no problem. With women strangers, problem. It's like the other day in the elevator there were all these women talkign about girl stuff...and in my head I was like "shoot me now". As much as I don't want to admit it, I think I have an unhealthy and negative view of women and that's what is impacting everything.

Yes I've mentioned height before, but lately that's not on my mind.

Of course I am self-conscious, (but I know I rock). The reason I provided so much information was that I believe it's necessary to find an answer. Kind of like algebra. It's not that I overthink this stuff, but it frustrates me that the answers aren't obvious.

My 5 best qualities?

-Witty/Comedic/Fun
-Deep thinker, Analytical.
-Loyal/Trustworthy
-Creative/Artistic
-Persistent.
-Generally carefree/aloof.
I like you Prag, yes you are a deep analytical thinker. Your 6 best qualities are all fantastic, relax into them and enjoy life.

So here is the interesting thing, you are asking all of this about women that you don't even know, that apparently make you want to shoot your self (jk I know), why don't they like me?

WHO CARES? Seriously who cares what people that you don't even know think about you?

So I will go back to my original suggestion, get some therapy and learn to relax into life and be comfortable in your own skin.

Perhaps one of your best qualities which is being a deep thinker is also one of your self sabotage qualities.
 

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My father was 5'5 and one of the greatest men ever. He was also in good shape and had a ton of hair, and after his divorce from my mom he never had problems finding women. Even when he was dying of cancer he had three of them wanting to push him around in his wheelchair, all taller.

He was a 1950's gang member tough guy. .... but he had empathy and understood what women needed. The lacking empathy thing in my opinion is a big deal. .... women will have trouble exposing their vulnerabilities and bonding with you if they're always feeling judged, which if you can't have empathy you will be doing.

My dad talked with my ex at length during our divorce and he told me that one of the things that struck him was that my ex had absolutely no compassion for anyone or anything. Probably why I never really felt comfortable being close to him.

I think you should look into this more.
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Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I lack empathy. Straight up. I don't have much compassion for others. I might make an awesome dictator, but I don't want to be that.

At times I have tried to fake it, and it's probably brutally obvious to women. When I was trying to learn for my ex-wife she'd joke and say I sound like a therapist. Lol.

I have friends who have told me repeatedly that my facial expressions are super obvious to what I am thinking. How can I change that?

So what does empathy look like? How do I gain it? Heck, how can I learn it? Heck, how can I fake it if I have to?

Can women, (even if just walking past you down the street) tell if you lack empathy?
 

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How about just not focusing on women for a while?

Get involved in some hobbies. Read. Take up a sport. Ask for more challenges at work. Go back to school and take a night class.

Neither my husband nor I were trying to meet anyone when we met. I was pretty much trying not to meet anyone. He was deep into his work and hobbies.

The right person often comes along when you stop looking for them.
 

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How about just not focusing on women for a while?

Get involved in some hobbies. Read. Take up a sport. Ask for more challenges at work. Go back to school and take a night class.

Neither my husband nor I were trying to meet anyone when we met. I was pretty much trying not to meet anyone. He was deep into his work and hobbies.

The right person often comes along when you stop looking for them.
That's the thing I am struggling with. I am pretty involved with my hobbies; Music, gardening, exercise and hanging with friends. I am usually very busy every night.

I know the right person comes along when you are not looking...but that's the thing...I get distracted very easily, so when I make the decision not to look, I end up becoming extremely introverted and anti-social. It's not fear that is holding me back from stop looking, but I have a drive to look and don't know why. It's not obsession. It's a drive and I am having trouble letting go.

Girls, is it that obvious when a guy lacks empathy or is looking for girls? How does a guy not look for girls? When you walk past one on the street, where does he look?

Consider me the most anti-social introvert you have ever met and I am starting from scratch.
 

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Hey everyone,

Something has been on my mind for quite some time. I love life and the universe and while this doesn't make me sad, I still think about it from time to time and wonder if there is anything I can do to improve (although I realize we are all unique and perfectly imperfect).
I don't know what it is, but something about the way I carry myself seems to put women off.

At first I thought it was my posture and health so I've corrected that by staying on top of it, eating healthy and doing daily exercise. I've lost considerable weight and gained lots of muscle. I don't have a beer belly and almost have a 6 pack (excited!!). I'm 25, white (not that it matters), have hair, don't smoke, good job, own a house, great circle of friends, etc. I am a very nice guy, and I learned how to be more alpha and extrovert (which took some practice). I've gotten many dates and for the most part I am fortunate to have had a good sex life. I don't have any fear inside nor do I get anxious around women. I can hold solid eye contact. Sometimes I think it has to do with my height (5'5) and basic biology (dominance and natural selection) and other times I think it's because I lack empathy (trouble feeling sorry for others and being sympathetic). I love to laugh and smile a lot, but my default face expression is quite cold. I've started to hang with more women to try and get to know them and take dance lessons; ultimately increasing my yin energy.

I've gotten over the height thing and I don't have any self-pity. I know I am sexy and I've had women confirm it. Other times I think, well, I am pretty busy, maybe I give off an air of impatience? Don't know...

Then I thought well maybe it was the fact that I am kind of a goof or aloof, careless, quiet (introverted). I have lots of women friends who like these traits of mine, and I don't care what women think of me. Either they like it or don't, but I don't seek approval from them anymore (haven't in a long time).

I love women, but don't know why they treat me like **** or are usually not interested. By treat like ****, I mean ignore me completely when I ask a question or talk. I don't act negatively when that happens and give off the napoleon complex. She's not interested, fine. I am not going to waste my time on someone like that.

I often feel like the universe is telling me I have a higher purpose and is deliberately ****blocking me to make more time for my dreams and goals. Lol. Perhaps it's the competitive environment too. There are lots of beautiful men around here. I don't know.

I've walked past so many women who I notice do a quick scan of me then look away with a little disgust. It's not judgement or perception. I know what I see. It's pretty obvious. I have good hygiene and wear nice, fitting clothes, so I don't understand. Even when I talk to women in a non-flirtatious way, either with friends or at work, they seem to scurry as if they feel unsafe around me.

Sometimes I wonder if it has to do with the fact that I grew up watching porn. I don't feel guilt or shame from it, but perhaps I objectify more then I believe I do and women can tell. Not like I am a creep, look desperate and peep every two seconds, but yeah, I feel like something about how I carry myself turns a lot of women off instantly.

Anyways, it seems the only women interested in me are unhealthy in some way or bbw. I believe in the laws of attraction, but you know I really don't have much negativity inside of me. I always try and view the world through the lens of love and avoid judging whenever possible. I used to think it was the girls in my city, but that's not fair. Maybe it's more of a rant then a question. Regardless, thank you for reading.

So ladies, what do you think? Any ideas? Why do I always get the cold shoulder. Despite everything I have said above, I really don't try hard and for the most part just go with the flow of life. I know everyone has their own opinions and perceptions and I can't get every woman to like me (that's ok, i'm cool with that), I'd like to make sure there is something I am not doing that could in fact be a simple answer.
Stop looking for women in Bars. Get a hobby that comes with a social community, that includes women, so that you are exposed to women who get to see who you really are over time and working together on projects, passions, or just entertainment. Maybe you suck at first impressions and I can really relate to that.

Anyway, if you are looking for more than a one night stand, a social group is a better means to find a good match for you as well. Church, charity, educational orgs, ethnic and cultural societies, sports (e.g. crossfit) ect... Find your people - Meetup

Also, take care to be discriminating yourself. It is easy for people who feel rejected to throw too much into a bad deal.
 

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How about just not focusing on women for a while?

Get involved in some hobbies. Read. Take up a sport. Ask for more challenges at work. Go back to school and take a night class.

Neither my husband nor I were trying to meet anyone when we met. I was pretty much trying not to meet anyone. He was deep into his work and hobbies.

The right person often comes along when you stop looking for them.
I was going to say the same thing.

Before I met my Hubby I had gone through a really rough patch and basically had taken a break from trying to meet guys. I was focused on hanging out with my girlfriends, travelling and my own hobbies and that's when Hubby came along. I have kept up that independent attitude which I find helps keep us from being "smothered" by each other.

I also think that you are taking their reactions too personally, especially from people (ladies) who don't know you at all. I doubt that there expressions are disgust -- maybe more like indifference, simply because they don't know you at all.
 

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This thing with LACKING EMPATHY.... Ok.. Look. if I was going to meet some men.. I WOULD care a great deal about this.. EMPATHY is part of the soul.. ya know.. or should be... It's showing you have the ability to listen to someone, HEAR them.. try to imagine walking in their shoes..we have the ability to RELATE... it's a deeper sense of connection.. ..like when we are speaking to someone & we feel "they get us".. they don't come off COLD... distant...

You speak of being enthusiastic..in what areas does this come out ?? Do you feel a connection, take a great interest in anything women are saying ??

MY husband is an empathetic man , very easy to talk to.. warm, engaging.. ..though he rarely has empathy for an A-hole... (basically I feel the same) though we're not going to come right out & speak this...(by this I mean people who seem to seek trouble & bring things upon themselves , reckless behavior sort of thing, drama follows them)

Beings you are analytical, you're probably HIGH on the THINKING/ Logical bar.. you can't really help this... but it can take a dive on the FEELING/ relating /warmness of a personality....Have you ever taken a temperament Test??

Here is one >> post your result... Gray Wheelwright Winer (GWW) Test - Winer Foundation

 

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My guess?

You seem to pride yourself on how little you care about women, what they think, what they feel. You revel in your refusal to "waste time" on them, yet brag about how much sex you're having.

Most women I know prefer men who are actually interested in them, you know, as people, with actual thoughts and feelings of their own. That are not just a "waste of time"

The whole "I'm too cool for school" thing you got going on is probably a big fat turn-off.
 

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To develop empathy I'd start by considering a time in your life when you really hurt. Then consider that this is how others feel for a variety of reasons.

If you're having all this sex and don't care what women think and lack empathy you're very likely sending a message that you don't really see them as actual human beings..... more like objects to be seen and used for your pleasure but not heard.

Is this what you intend? What sort of relationship do you envision in your fantasy scenario?
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Good evening
What are your goals? If you want sex with women it seems you are succeeding. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want.

If you want long term relationships and respect, then you have to provide respect back. What was admirable about the last woman you dated?

Nothing says you have to seek long term relationships - it really is up to you.
 

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Are you sure women you don't even know look away with disgust and you're not ogling them or making eye contact?

This seems very odd to me because, well, why would they? Even if you were unattractive, which it does not seem like you are, unless you're hitting on them, why would anyone look at a complete stranger who had not said or done anything to them, then look away with disgust? Let alone a number of strangers? Until they know you, you're not a part of their world. Especially if you have a good sex life it sounds like Women who do meet you apparently are not put off by you.

I will say that as a woman, when I was young and single I often felt like "the prey" where men were "the predators." I was not disgusted by men, but men hit on women and, as a woman, if you're not interested you're in the awkward position of having to reject them. (Some women have no problem with this but it always made me feel bad.) So if a man who was a stranger to me seemed to be considering approaching me, I might look away or just try to avoid him. But I would not be disgusted.

Also you say 1) These are not women you know and 2)They ignore you when you ask a question.

Under what circumstance do you ask women you don't know questions? When you're just walking past them? They may perceive it as a come on and just not want to open the door to that.

Also, a certain percentage of the population, both male and female, is just plain rude and will ignore any stranger. The higher the population density the more of this you get.

Of course you don't mention asking strange men questions (so you are approaching them because they're women, which is fine, but they understand this and may be thinking "danger stranger!" regardless of your demeanor/looks. But that's just the way the world works, it's not you.
 

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This is what's wrong with you:


I don't value people's time. I truly don't care, but I want to. My time, my life, me first, you know? I know I know I am not more important or better than anyone, but I know for a fact that I'd never take a bullet for someone. Your life your problem, no? I lack empathy. I could probably watch someone get hurt and try to find something funny about it. I am starting to see people can tell that I am insensitive and ruthless. Not cold (I laugh a lot and am very relaxed), but ruthless.
This is why.
 

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I agree with meson. You sound like you have sociopathic characteristics. What meson said describes my stbx. Last year when we were in counseling he told the counselor he's unable to feel love and wouldn't even be that upset to hear his own mother died. He'd be sad for a day, but then get over it.

To your question if people can tell right away if you lack empathy, no, I doubt it. Unless as you are talking to a woman, your eye is roving all over the place elsewhere to see what else is going on that you're missing. Then, maybe. I don't know why complete strangers in an elevator would look at you in disgust, though. (Maybe that is in your imagination).
 

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I applaud you for being so introspective.

This may sound trite. But I think you should take up poker. You said your facial expressions give you away. You can't do that in poker unless you want to lose your shirt.

And you've got to find that empathy chip. Can you volunteer somewhere? This might help.
 
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