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Discussion Starter #1
I've been together with the love of my life for 10 years, married for 8, with a lovely 6 yo daughter. We have been lucky enough that I was able to support us all so my wife could stay home with the kiddo - a mutual agreement for the benefit of our daughter. Now that she is in elementary school my wife has gone back to work to resurrect her career, which I thoroughly encouraged because she was becoming a bit of a shut in and needed more interaction with others.

It's now 1 year into me working days at home and her working swings. I've been unsatisfied with how our work schedules keep us apart (we see each other a couple hour a day tops). She gets home late (1-2 am) and still needs time to wind down. I try and stay up to spend time with her but am exhausted at that point and have to go to bed without her. She joins me anywhere between 3 and 6 am. Then I get up at 7, fix kiddos lunch, take her to school, pick her up from school, and then make lunch for my wife as she gets up and gets ready. All of this during my work hours (at home). Wife leaves for work, I make and have dinner with my lil girl, do activities, homework, bath time and bed time. Then I clean and try to get a nap in before wife gets home. Repeat.

I've tried not to complain because I saw it as role reversal and she took good care of both of us while a SAHM. But I can't understand why she can't go to bed with me, or at least earlier, and wake herself up to at least see her daughter off to school. Or get up early enough to help out by picking her up. Meanwhile I'm neglecting work, pushing back conference calls, etc so I can see my daughter to and from school. We've talked about it and she just says she can't fall asleep any earlier. And I feel resentment because of this.

But we've made it work. Now lately she'll come home, drink too much, and lash out me. Angrily and very ugly, but conveniently doesn't remember saying nasty things to me. I have to explain in the morning why I'm upset. We had a small argument about the neighbors dogs barking too much. I stepped out onto the back patio and she locked me out, flipped me off, and went to bed. Leaving me to sleep on the patio all night. After I finally got her to wake up by ringing the door bell 1000 times and waking my daughter first, she then lets me in and "doesn't remember".

Now she's made friends at work and they go out for a few drinks after work once a week, which is fine. She needs social interaction - everyone does. But one night after texting me to say she's going to hang with the crew, she doesn't come home. Misses her daughter's award ceremony at school. Gets home at noon and says she fell asleep watching movies with friends. No other info. I pry. Turns out she slept at a male coworkers house. I pry more. Turns out her girlfriend went home - but she didn't.

This was the night after she locked me out. I felt hurt, betrayed, lied to, and disappointed. I told her I was expecting at least some sort of gesture that she was sorry for locking me out. Being the nice guy I am I had bought her flowers to show that I can overcome the anger I felt. But what do I get - her overnight at some guy's house. She then tells me she thinks she got married too young. But there is no affair and I have nothing to worry about. I ask if she still even wants me around. "I don't know."

We go through a rough couple days and she has a long talk with her grandmother who was married many time but is now in a decades-long marriage. It gave her some perspective and she says she wants to make it work. I told her I'm completely uncomfortable with her staying over at a man's house - especially one I don't know. She agrees it was a crappy thing to do and promises it won't happen again.

Things are good for almost two weeks. Love and intimacy, cuddling, favors for each other. Then I get another text that she's going out for a couple beers after work. No other info offered. I text ok and go to bed. Once again I wake up alone. She comes in and acts like nothing happened. I tell her I'm upset, most of all because she isn't being honest and she broke her promise less than 2 weeks into fixing things. She says she didn't think it was a big deal.

This has me worried that at the very least she is having an EA with this guy. So I look up her phone bill. Never have I done this before and I never would have absent her breaking her promise, and so soon. In the last month there have been 50 texts to me, 100 to her girlfriend, and 400 to this guy. She sees me snooping into her phone bill as a violation of trust but still won't admit she did anything wrong.

I look at the records in more depth. She texts him before work, during work, after work, from home after I go to bed, and on weekends. She was texting him the whole day we were having a heart to heart about our marriage.

I ask if she still loves me. She says yes. I ask if she wants to split. She says "I don't know". I ask how she could disrespect our marriage by breaking her promise. "I don't know". I ask her what she would do if the situation were reversed. "I don't know".

When I asked her to marry me she said "Hell yes!". I asked her if she was still "Hell Yes" wife. "I don't know". I tell her that our marriage won't work if she is not 100% committed. "I don't know". She says she needs time to figure that out. For me, it's a no brainer. I love this woman. Madly and deeply. But I want my "Hell Yeah" wife back.

The way I see it, "I don't know" is not 100%, and therefore means "NO". Now we are getting ready for a trial separation - she's moving into an apartment and will have daughter on the weekends. Next up - coming up with terms and boundaries.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
To clarify - second time she was out all night she was with the same guy, and again stayed all night even though her girlfriend went home. Again I had to pry for each bit of info.

I told her that even if she is just watching movies with this guy, it still is not ok because she is not being upfront with me, she is lying by omission, she is repeating behavior that she knows hurts me, and she is breaking her promise to me in the process.

"I don't think it's a big deal, but I guess it is because it's a big deal for you."

Wow, I feel like she thinks that was an apology. This made me feel so small.
 

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It sounds like you have a good perspective on what is going on -- your wife is in an EA with her coworker (possibly a PA). It also sounds like this situation was made possible by the fact that you two have incompatible work schedules. It also sounds like your wife is in the affair fog, which means that she can rationalize her behavior (staying out all night with OM because he is her "friend" and she deserves to live a little after her years as a SAHM).

The good news is that she realizes that you two need to work on your relationship. If not, she wouldn't have spent 2 weeks trying to put more into your marriage. BUT -- if she is in contact with the OM then she will be unable to work on your relationship.

In an ideal world I would get her to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass with you. That is such an effective book at explaining how easy it is to slide into an emotional affair with a coworker. The problem with the book is it is VERY PAINFUL for both the spouse who is cheating and for the betrayed wife. It's hard to read it. But, if you could get her to read it, and then follow the advice in it -- I bet your marriage would improve.

It seems like you two have some tough decisions to make. (It would be best if she could find a different job with different hours and different people.) Marriage counseling would almost certainly help you two work through the issues.
 

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She says she needs time to figure that out.
Means - she wants to explore the single live ( with the posOM ) without a hubby watching and controlling her.

You have to understand ( I know it is hard ) that if the posOM is there you don't have any chance and " I don't know " is to send you to the Plan B crowd !

Separate asap and cut all the money yesterday . Give her money and flowers wont make her come back , it will push her away and she'll think is OK to do so.

It is hard I know, I'm in almost the same situation but we don't have a choice !
 

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Discussion Starter #5
She initially agreed to marriage counseling. I wanted to see if she'd be proactive about it. 2 weeks and nothing. So I registered us for a marriage counseling class and told her about it. "great" was her sarcastic response. Now she doesn't want to go to counseling together but instead wants us both to do IC while separated. She says it will make us both better parents in the long run. But that is not my chief concern at the moment. It seems to me that BigMac is correct and she wants this separation time in order to see if OM will work out, not to work on our marriage. At least not mainly.
 

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My STBXW did almost same thing. I remember when we first got married, she went to a party with some of her co-workers. Well she become to intoxicated and decided to sleep over at their place. She came home the next day with a hangover and i was livid. Why in the hell would a newly wed wife be sleeping over at single (college/co-workers) house, while im left at the apartment alone after getting off work? THAT WAS A HUGE RED FLAG. We should of went to counseling right after that, but we didnt and now we are going through a divorce.

Zillard, just make sure you don't put your life on hold for her. If she says "I don't know" regarding marriage, i would take that as a no. Put the 180 on her. Don't talk/text/have any contact with her. Do things for yourself and nobody else. Don't put yourself into a rollercoaster of emotions dealing with her. She will just have you right where she wants you and be her plan B. Best thing to do is move forward without her.
 

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So I sat down and typed up an email with my concerns and possible boundaries for the separation and asked for her input.

1. Do we have a no contact period or do we have scheduled family and/or date time?

- she thinks no, our daughter needs to see us happy and spending time together.

2. Do we have a no physical intimacy rule to clearly separate emotional and physical connection.

- she says "I don't know". She hasn't been feeling it but might want to tomorrow. {back to BigMac's Plan B}

3. Should we have an agreement on who is allowed over during daughter time. I don't want to confuse her with a new place and new faces.

- We agree that her girlfriend can be over with daughter but that's it.

4. Outside of daughter time, will dating be allowed or forbidden? I have no interest in it but don't want to be controlling. Clear boundaries need to be set.

- She says, "I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand I never want to date again, but on the other I wonder what it might be like. No animosity, no weirdness." {Yes, it would cause weirdness. Back to BigMac's Plan B}

5. We need to set a time frame for the trial in order to prevent perpetual limbo. I think 3-6 mos.

- We agree and she mentions possibility of breaking lease early. {hope?}

6. Can we agree to give each other updates on counseling. If one does it and other doesn't the separation is a waste of time.

- She does want open and full disclosure regarding IC progress.

7. Once we agree on boundaries, what happens if one of us crosses them? Put a nail in it or re-evaluate? I think respecting agreements is more important in this trial than ever before.

- she says, "Mutual concerns are important, but life is fluid. [Crap] ebbs and flows. I think if something comes up we need to analyze it as it happens. Neither of us knows what is going to actually happen in the next 3-6 months. Anything could happen. All I know right now is that I have no idea what might happen."

I'm of the mind that if she can't follow a separation agreement of less than 10 rules then what good are ANY agreements, including marriage.

"I love you. So much that I would lay down in front of a train for you without hesitation. I'd take a bullet for you. But I don' t know that I'm still "in love"" {so she would take a bullet for me, but she won't end an "innocent friendship" with OM!?}
 

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Mutual concerns are important, but life is fluid.
BS BS and again BS

Means - I wanna ride my OM , don't want you to "watch" me doing it BUT I want the financial support !

You're wasting your time ( as I do with my W )

@zillard

I'm on #6 and is inevitable , so prepare your self , remember 180 and stay strong !
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm going to tell her that she can either date or be intimate with me, but not both.

And if she breaks any of the agreements its over. immediately.
 

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Won't work and will push her away !

She need to miss you , that's the only chance you have if you wanna get her back
Are you saying the only option I have if I want to get her back is to let her explore AND control the relationship? I have to share her until she might come to her senses?
 

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Absolutely not !

Separate and move away . Let her miss you ! Cut her off your money so she see how it is to be responsible . Go dark and completely 180 - talking to her business only !
Act happy and enthusiastic . Show her you moved on.

This the only chance you have ( me too ) . Nothing else will work.
 

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He's right bro. Dark and 180. That's it.

If you have the money and WILL DO IT... get some books. I'll try to list them in the manner I picked them up.

1. The Divorce Remedy
2. His Needs Her Needs / Getting Back Together
4. Getting Back Together (Not recommended to me but i saw it.)
 

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He's right bro. Dark and 180. That's it.

If you have the money and WILL DO IT... get some books. I'll try to list them in the manner I picked them up.

1. The Divorce Remedy
2. His Needs Her Needs / Getting Back Together
4. Getting Back Together (Not recommended to me but i saw it.)
The books I am reading (and re-reading) right now:

1.Divorce Remedy
2. Divorce Busting
3. No more mr nice guy
4. Married Man Sex Primer
5. 5 Love Languages
6. Hope for the Separated
7. His Needs, Her Needs
8. Marriage Fitness

If you can get them, I would highly recommend it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm starting to think that the title of my thread asked the wrong question. I know what to do with "I don't know". Nothing. I can't. That's about her.

Got another vague text last night that she was going out for A beer after work. I didn't even ask and I'm not going to. I didn't wait up for her. I made myself a comfy bed on the couch and went to sleep. I think I heard her come in around 5 am but didn't bother to check the clock.

And to be clear, the only reason I'm going to bed on the couch is if I do go to sleep in the bed she still crawls in with me and tries to snuggle. Nope. Have to work harder than that. I'm not a pillow to be disregarded until she needs a soft spot.

To my surprise she got up this morning and helped see daughter off to school. Then she texted me "we can talk after work" (meaning hers).

I texted back "If I'm up. My sleep is just as important as yours and if you really want to talk you'll make the time."

No answer. She went to sleep. We'll see what happens. However, I now understand what I must do if I want to preserve any sense of self respect that I have. For me it's a no brainer - no matter what she has done I am madly in love with her. But I cannot wait around for a woman that is not in love with me.

I have an appointment with a lawyer today and a divorce kit coming in the mail. {As well as a copy of No More Mister Nice Guy}
 

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Sorry to see your situation.You've gotten some good advice here.The truth is there isn't really a chance of R as long as OM is in the picture.Read some of the threads in the CWI forum as she seems to be setting herself up to continue her behavior without any interference from you.From what you've said about her staying over at OM's place on 2 occasions there is a big possibility that it is already a PA.Find out as much about the OM as possible and be prepared to report it to HR if need be,but that really depends on how far you want to go.If she just goes on her merry way with her inappropriate actions with no consequences and all the overtures to find solutions are left on your shoulders then you may be stuck in limbo for a long time.I hope you find the strength to do what's right for you.Good luck and take care.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Met with a lawyer yesterday to discuss my options. Hesitant to pull the trigger just yet though so I set an appt with an MC today.

Wife asked me last night if I have anything to say to her. Told her that her responses to my questions were alarming. I said if she's willing to take a bullet for me then she should give me an hour of her time to go the MC with me so I can discuss my concerns in a neutral environment with a 3rd party perspective.

She agreed to go with to "air our laundry in front of a stranger".

Leaving in a few minutes. Wish me luck. Not too hopeful but I need to do this for me before I do anything else. No matter what happens I plan on continuing to see the counselor.
 
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