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i asked to move out so i could have space to work on myself. she reluctantly agreed that was ok. we both have been in therapy.

i have lost 37 pounds since july when i started therapy and dealing with my issues. my blood pressure was 167/117 necessitating bp medicine.

i had a drs appointment monday and my bp was 110/70. i was told i could come off of the meds.

We agreed to revisit after new years.

in reality this has given me the time to realize i am ready to pursue divorce and have spoken with an attorney

i will tell her in the next week or so that the separation is permanent and we need to prepare for the idea of living separate lives

she will have trouble with that as even though she understands im
tentative at best about trying to fix it she wants to try. she will be upset that i do not

we do care for each other but there are a lot of incompatibilities for me
Maybe you should wait until after the holidays assuming you will be celebrating them. You don't want this to be a trigger every time them come up especially when it comes to your kids.
 
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I hope that as well. But I’m not sure she’ll give up so easily.

I was in R for a very long time but it just never felt right. One day my suspicions were confirmed. I thought, after being caught twice, that my ex-husband would be glad to move on. But no. He fought the divorce right up to the moment he married his new girlfriend (not his AP) which was about five minutes after the final decree was signed. My story is the reason I‘m not a supporter of R. Some work out but a lot don’t. That broken bond is really tough to fix.

I wish you the very best going forward. I think you will be very happy with your new life.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
I hope that as well. But I’m not sure she’ll give up so easily.

I was in R for a very long time but it just never felt right. One day my suspicions were confirmed. I thought, after being caught twice, that my ex-husband would be glad to move on. But no. He fought the divorce right up to the moment he married his new girlfriend (not his AP) which was about five minutes after the final decree was signed. My story is the reason I‘m not a supporter of R. Some work out but a lot don’t. That broken bond is really tough to fix.

I wish you the very best going forward. I think you will be very happy with your new life.
i think you may be right.

that's crazy he fought for you and then married immediatly. that doesn't seem normal lol. how long ago was this and are they still married?

thanks - i think i will be happy. I'm starting to feel like my old self again. I do hope my wife will be happy to.
 

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never cheated but there were times I did not care for my husband very much and if given the chance to vent my frustrations with him I could have said some very unflattering things. I did love him though, very much. Just because I didn't like every aspect of him doesn't mean I didn't love him.
I was just catching up here and caught this in the thread. Interesting thing here: I don’t know of very many BH’s who went around trashing their WW’s to others, either before or after their WW’s cheated on them. It’s a fascinating thing. Even in all my convos IRL with close confidantes in the wake of being betrayed, I still haven’t trashed my WW. in fact I’ve gone out of my way to do the opposite. I find it strange how so many wives feel free or the need to trash their husbands to their girlfriends. This seems to be more prevalent.
 

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I was just catching up here and caught this in the thread. Interesting thing here: I don’t know of very many BH’s who went around trashing their WW’s to others, either before or after their WW’s cheated on them. It’s a fascinating thing. Even in all my convos IRL with close confidantes in the wake of being betrayed, I still haven’t trashed my WW. in fact I’ve gone out of my way to do the opposite. I find it strange how so many wives feel free or the need to trash their husbands to their girlfriends. This seems to be more prevalent.
I think some of this can be attributed to how we historically see our roles, and yes I know this is considered passé but I think some of this is built into us. Men and particularly husbands feel very protective of their wives, so I don't think it is for many of us this would be natural. We know WWs are already inclined to be entitled right, they're cheaters, so is it any surprise that they are also vocal about it? I also think women are generally share more with their friends on an emotional level to begin with, and ****ty disloyal women probably share in a ****ty way.

Plus I would bet cheating husbands bash their wives all the time too.
 

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i think you may be right.

that's crazy he fought for you and then married immediatly. that doesn't seem normal lol. how long ago was this and are they still married?

thanks - i think i will be happy. I'm starting to feel like my old self again. I do hope my wife will be happy to.
Yeah, it certainly was a crazy time (years ago now). He couldn’t stand the idea of being alone so he immediately lined up Wife #2. Being free of all that was worth everything I went through to get there. I hope it will be for you as well.
 

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I was just catching up here and caught this in the thread. Interesting thing here: I don’t know of very many BH’s who went around trashing their WW’s to others, either before or after their WW’s cheated on them. It’s a fascinating thing. Even in all my convos IRL with close confidantes in the wake of being betrayed, I still haven’t trashed my WW. in fact I’ve gone out of my way to do the opposite. I find it strange how so many wives feel free or the need to trash their husbands to their girlfriends. This seems to be more prevalent.
Well, to be clear I didn’t trash my exH to anyone either. Venting to my sister that he makes me crazy when he leaves his crap everywhere or when he brings home junk food for the kids is not something I consider trashing him. In fact, when I caught him cheating, with strange men no less, I kept that information to myself for 15 years. He’s out now but he did that himself, I did not tell his secrets as they weren’t mine to tell.
 

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I think what is often missing in this discussion is that when there is abuse in relationships of the kind that adultery is, where it causes great trauma, this very often causes the spouse that was abused to eventually lose, respect and finally faith in the abusive spouse, even in the relationship.

This can also eventually erode the love for that abusive spouse to the point where it goes away. In those cases for many, the marriage isn't worth saving. Very often this is what the BS is really dealing with thought they fail to articulate it. Often the focus seems to be on the structure of the marriage or even the current relationship, but not in the context of love. I think for some if you don't love the person and they abused you in the past, the marriage even if the current day to day partnership is good, is just not worth it, particularly if your whole purpose for getting married was to be with the person you love.

I think it's much harder to get the feeling of love back when you have lost faith in the person you would be in love with.
This is SO well-said, and works exactly like this from my experience (which didn't include cheating)...GREAT post!!!
 

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This is SO well-said, and works exactly like this from my experience (which didn't include cheating)...GREAT post!!!
Love is a delicate thing, in some ways it's a miracle but you must not take it for granted. When you are lucky enough to have someone commit their life to you, you need to earn it.
 

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Background:

Wife and i were married 20 years ago, and have two wonderful children, who are teens. She is very attractive and we were deeply in love. We were in our early 20s when married, and she loved the idea of starting a family. It became clear early on, i would take up the fight to provide for our family, and she would primarily raise the kids, and keep the household, with a plan of working when/where she could to supplement.

I am not afraid of working, and wanted very much to provide for my family. I worked full time, went to school at nite to finish up a bachelors degree, and dove headfirst into a rental property. Fast forward to year 12 of marriage, and i was stressed out, not home much, but on a very lucrative career path.

Our daily lives were so different, we didn't appreciate the others struggles. She wanted me to listen and understand her struggles, and being under a lot of stress to produce at work, i wasn't very sympathetic or understanding (even though i tried to be). Resentment grew on both sides, and she was quite nasty to me. I tried to make it up with promises of things getting easier and bigger house, nice car etc.

in the winter of 2012, i stumbled upon her FB account and found that she had reached out to an old boyfriend, the one that got away and broke her heart by cheating on her. Very handsome guy, and single. I was able to guess her password, and monitored their communications for weeks, all the while dying inside and wondering what i did to deserve this. I also found text messages between her and her cousin (very close like sisters) absolutely shredding me, that i was gross, and annoying.

i was a mess already - struggling at work bc of the demands placed on me, unable to sleep through the nite, finding myself medicating with alcohol inappropriately etc. I wanted help from my wife, and support/understanding - instead she turned elsewhere.

The messages went from playful banter, to flirting, to graphic sexual conversations, to arranging a meeting. I was determined to let the meeting happen and then confront her, and end the marriage. I was heartbroken, but desperate to find the right way out of it. They hadn't arranged an actual meeting place, and i couldn't wait any longer. In the middle of the night, i woke her (sleeping soundly as i laid quietly next to her in agonizing pain) and revealed i knew what she was up to.

At first, her reaction was quiet, i think she was trying to figure out what to say. Early on, her she seemed to think it was wrong, but no big deal. Over the following weeks i agonized with what to do. I ultimately determined that even though i had been betrayed, i couldn't yet give up on our relationship mostly for the kids sake, if we could reconcile. Without going into all the details, over the last 8 years, we went through many lows (including behavior on my part - developed a real drinking problem, which i'm past but did cause some problems, being absent, having a hard time being close) to a place now where i've forgiven her, our household is in good order, we parent well together get along fine, and i believe she truly regrets her actions. Over the years, there were periods where i had completely moved past it, but deep down, i knew she got to a place where she did not care about me and wanted someone else. That has never left me, and today, i know that i cannot go back.

My problem, and ultimately my question, is what to do given that her betrayal caused me to close a door - i couldnt let her in, even though i tried. We care about each other, support each other, can laugh together, but i have a black hole where the love should be. She believes we have moved past it. I have come to the realization that i'll never be able to love her as i should, and that's not good for either of us. Truly, i think she does love me, but not like she wants to. She wants a deep intimacy, and to be adored, and i'm unable to give her that even though i have tried (early on I could, after the betrayal i cannot)

Her guilt over acting out, and fear over what might happen, keep her in it, and I believe she thinks we have good marriage. We don't fight and are in sync on our daily lives. I don't think she wants to start over, but i'm not OK with both of us missing out on life.

My mission is to figure out how to have conversations where we both can be honest , and get her to start thinking about what she wants. I will not abandon her or the kids, and i will continue to provide as i have for the last 20 years. My daughter is a freshman in highschool, and i can support the household until she's out of college. I can stay at the home, or move nearby with my widowed stepmother.

Has anyone been in a similar situation, and what were your results, good or bad?
You didn't treasure her before and she almost stepped out and you don't treasure her now. So...nothing has changed for her. She's probably still doing your laundry, keeping up your home and doing math homework w the kids and you're still detached.

Sorry....but you've got her by the guilt straps now. She feels bad about her emotional affair and so she deals w your alcoholism and emotional neglect while dying inside and feeling like she deserves it.

Meanwhile you can't adore her? Let's at least admit that if you had been more adoring and present another guy wouldn't have been able to put a bug in her ear that you didn't want her or treasure her and he did.

My husband had a full blown affair and I was still giving him blow jobs, giving him my ft paycheck, cooking his dinner and taking the kids to track. Men take you for granted when they think they've secured you. They **** around for different reasons than women. And they rarely see what pains in the asses they are. My step dad was a drunk and while I dealt w an affair alcoholic behaviors would have been an automatic take the kids and divorce him moment for me.

Maybe you should look a little more closely at your wife. Because you're not seeing what there is to adore about her, and that's your fail.
 

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Meanwhile you can't adore her? Let's at least admit that if you had been more adoring and present another guy wouldn't have been able to put a bug in her ear that you didn't want her or treasure her and he did.
Absolutely 100 percent false. We know this is false because many women who are neglected by their husbands remain faithful. This is insulting to the many faithful women in the world. It is also one of the most pervasive myths about adultery that has been debunked, even by apologists like Esther Perel. The literature around adultery is increasingly finding that infidelity seems to happen more often in good marriages than not.
 
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Cheaters aren’t adorable
He said things weren't good before. And also you can love and adore someone who cheated. I have. It has been ten years and I adored him. He's a good man and has good traits and he was my person. It took a hell of a lot more than an affair for things to decline like they have. Yeah affairs suck but they don't turn a person into garbage.
 

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You didn't treasure her before and she almost stepped out and you don't treasure her now. So...nothing has changed for her. She's probably still doing your laundry, keeping up your home and doing math homework w the kids and you're still detached.

Sorry....but you've got her by the guilt straps now. She feels bad about her emotional affair and so she deals w your alcoholism and emotional neglect while dying inside and feeling like she deserves it.

Meanwhile you can't adore her? Let's at least admit that if you had been more adoring and present another guy wouldn't have been able to put a bug in her ear that you didn't want her or treasure her and he did.
So there is a lot of projection in this post. What I find interesting is you have much more sympathy for the cheating wife as a wife, then a human being who was cheated on even though, since you say yourself you were cheated on you would think you might have some empathy and understanding what that is like.

Honestly your post reads like, -- You should just suffer and take it because men suck and it's hard to be a wife.

It seems it's easier for you to empathize with someone of the same gender. That is the only reason I can see for this take.

Men take you for granted when they think they've secured you. They **** around for different reasons than women. And they rarely see what pains in the asses they are. My step dad was a drunk and while I dealt w an affair alcoholic behaviors would have been an automatic take the kids and divorce him moment for me.
This is a pretty big tell. Not to say the men you have been around might have done that but to say "men" in general is just wrong. OP stayed with his wife and tried to make it work, a lot more then many would do. I think the abusive men you have been around have shaped your opinion about all of them. Like I always say on here, never judge an entire gender by the worst of them.

Seems your take is - Wives are always victims even when they cheat.

My husband had a full blown affair and I was still giving him blow jobs, giving him my ft paycheck, cooking his dinner and taking the kids to track. Men take you for granted when they think they've secured you. They **** around for different reasons than women. And they rarely see what pains in the asses they are. My step dad was a drunk and while I dealt w an affair alcoholic behaviors would have been an automatic take the kids and divorce him moment for me.

Maybe you should look a little more closely at your wife. Because you're not seeing what there is to adore about her, and that's your fail.
There is nothing noble about continuing to allowing someone to abuse you. I wonder given it seems like you grew up in this environment this kind of dysfunction was modeled for you. This is not a healthy example to follow though.

I think if you ever met a good man you might be surprised.
 
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He said things weren't good before. And also you can love and adore someone who cheated. I have. It has been ten years and I adored him. He's a good man and has good traits and he was my person. It took a hell of a lot more than an affair for things to decline like they have. Yeah affairs suck but they don't turn a person into garbage.
Well by their nature affairs are abusive and done by people who operate at the peak of selfishness. Which makes people who commit them useless when it comes to the type of partnership marriage requires to make one good and productive. The people who do this provide no happiness to your life in the long run, only pain. Very much like garbage. If you leave it lying around and your life suffers for it.

The point is cheaters are worthless, when it comes to romantic relationships and you are better off without them.

You seem to have a very high tolerance, and it's good it worked out for you, though you seem to be projecting your husbands cruelty onto all husbands.

Divorcing someone who cheated on you is always a reasonable and should be the expected choice.
 
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What I'm hearing is that you have experienced an affair which was very traumatic and which gave you an all or none mentality about people who have committed an affair. Your trauma response is to make it cut and dry, cheaters are always bad people or are the bad one. Period. I don't blame you for seeing it this way. It's a cut and dry way to discard all of the other factors involved, and move on without the pain and agony of a critical evaluation of the whole picture. In a huge way I see you as the lucky one for having the capacity to see such a thing as black and white. It's much harder for those of us hashing it out in the grey area.
 

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So there is a lot of projection in this post. What I find interesting is you have much more sympathy for the cheating wife as a wife, then a human being who was cheated on even though, since you say yourself you were cheated on you would think you might have some empathy and understanding what that is like.

Honestly your post reads like, -- You should just suffer and take it because men suck and it's hard to be a wife.

It seems it's easier for you to empathize with someone of the same gender. That is the only reason I can see for this take.



This is a pretty big tell. Not to say the men you have been around might have done that but to say "men" in general is just wrong. OP stayed with his wife and tried to make it work, a lot more then many would do. I think the abusive men you have been around have shaped your opinion about all of them. Like I always say on here, never judge an entire gender by the worst of them.

Seems your take is - Wives are always victims even when they cheat.



There is nothing noble about continuing to allowing someone to abuse you. I wonder given it seems like you grew up in this environment this kind of dysfunction was modeled for you. This is not a healthy example to follow though.

I think if you ever met a good man you might be surprised.
Essentially both people in this relationship according to the writer, had a lot of neglect and a plethora of abuse going towards one another. Neither was perfect and neither was right. But if both don't admit to their **** ups....and just move on....odds are they will repeat them in their next relationships. I don't care who cheated. Both parties if they stay together, need to admit to their **** ups and grow from them or they'll never grow together. Honestly ten years later the affair my husband had isn't the be all and end all of who he is as a person. I grew a lot from it. Which was a choice. I also chose to count the good things he did instead of counting coup. Which was a choice. I do believe men and women often "affair" from different places. But they all make excuses that suck. And betrayed spouses often think that they were the perfect spouse and point out how great they were rather than admitting their garbage that contributed to the downfall of their relationship. You appear to be determined to identify a blame game that's simply not there, in your thesis of my comments. Which I won't return in kind.
 

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OP doesn't want to stay together
What I'm hearing is that you have experienced an affair which was very traumatic and which gave you an all or none mentality about people who have committed an affair. Your trauma response is to make it cut and dry, cheaters are always bad people or are the bad one. Period. I don't blame you for seeing it this way. It's a cut and dry way to discard all of the other factors involved, and move on without the pain and agony of a critical evaluation of the whole picture. In a huge way I see you as the lucky one for having the capacity to see such a thing as black and white. It's much harder for those of us hashing it out in the grey area.
If this is directed to me I will respond. It's really not so much good or bad people it's is what people offer to you in a marriage. Cheaters by there actions and their nature don't offer much. Now there are those who say their marriage is great after the fact, and maybe for .001% it's true, but for the others what are they comparing it to? Very often these people don't have other relationship experience to put their current one into context. Let's be honest most people really stay because of fear, and there are the unfortunate ones who can't afford to leave, sadly, which is sad and a shame, a shame that all of them were not empowered to leave and have better lives.

Essentially both people in this relationship according to the writer, had a lot of neglect and a plethora of abuse going towards one another. Neither was perfect and neither was right. But if both don't admit to their ** ups....and just move on....odds are they will repeat them in their next relationships. I don't care who cheated. Both parties if they stay together, need to admit to their ** ups and grow from them or they'll never grow together. Honestly ten years later the affair my husband had isn't the be all and end all of who he is as a person. I grew a lot from it. Which was a choice. I also chose to count the good things he did instead of counting coup. Which was a choice. I do believe men and women often "affair" from different places. But they all make excuses that suck. And betrayed spouses often think that they were the perfect spouse and point out how great they were rather than admitting their garbage that contributed to the downfall of their relationship. You appear to be determined to identify a blame game that's simply not there, in your thesis of my comments. Which I won't return in kind.
I am not determined to identify a blame, I am saying clearly she cheated on him and destroyed the marriage. Did the both contribute to the problems in the marriage, sure like every marriage, but only one of them broke their vows therefor invalidating the contract. It's not rocket science. Besides that, adultery is abuse, just like physical abuse. There is no moral argument to be made to justify any abuse in marriage. To say anything else is just blaming the victim which is very wrong, in the same way it's wrong to say it's OK for a man to punch his wife because she mouthed off at him.

You seriously can't really be comparing working so hard for your families financial security that you are emotionally inattentive, to having phone sex and complaining about your husband to your boyfriend right? Let's just look at their motive, his was for his family even if his execution was wrong, hers was the opposite, only for herself with no thought at all for even her own children and what an affair would do to them. I mean the two things are not remotely alike, lets have some perspective here. And I am well aware that he was wrong because a husband's job is to be an emotional provider too, but she nuked the relationship and sometimes there is no coming back from that.

You are operating under a false premise. He doesn't owe her anything. She cheated on him and broke her vows, disrespecting him in the process. At that point the contract was void and he is well with in his rights to leave. He gave it a shot but he couldn't live with it. Neither his word nor his honor requires him to stay, and he has no moral obligation because she didn't honor her word. This was the risk she was willing to take and these are her consequences.

I swear your posts read like your his wife.

It needs to be said often so it's understood. Particularly in today's day and age at least in the 1st world where women are on longer financially dependent on their husbands. The reasonable and standard course of action when there is abuse in the marriage, like adultery, should be divorce. Period stop. Now you can stay if you want, but the it's not immoral to divorce. Frankly if the abuse is ongoing and or horrific enough it is immoral to stay.
 
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