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Discussion Starter #1
Now I don't normally get into religious debates or rants ... not on this board anyhow. After seeing a post in a group I'm involved in on FB I really feel the need to rant. Here is the post.




" well all my darkness dwellers i have a lil intresting fact (sorry in advance libirals) obama is more then repressing the freed of religion this page was formed on he and his cohorts have singled out many religons and have started placeing restrictions on it even imprisoning a minister for haveing a prayer group in his house for 45 days and fineing him thousands of dollars and haveing a pagan group fined for public gathering with out a permit when they where on private property ... All i got to say is that we may all be living by our group name soon meeting in the woods to worship after dark were we cant be arrested for having a religion "


This is complete and utter bs imo! Now I don't have cable so I don't watch the news nor do I get the paper. I just go by what I happen to come across. If he really intends on repressing our religious freedom I'm completely against it and will go on a protest myself!
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Based on the poor grammar and syntax used in the FB-Group Post excerpt, I'd question the legitimacy of the claims it made, consider any warrants given to be highly suspect, and doubt the logical soundness of the allegations.

Obama has done some good stuff and failed to do other stuff, but I doubt religious freedom is being limited. Now, repression of religious expression in public spaces has been a contentious and heated topic for some time both on TAM and in the world at large and I think it falls in and out of cultural fashion regardless of who is in office.

People who are scared of losing what they've got will see threats everywhere. Just my opinion, though....
 

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You do have a point though. I find it hard to believe that something like this wouldn't have been aired. Like I said though I don't really have a means to watch the news so I'm not sure if its something I missed or not.
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The 45 day thing was actually a zoning issue, and if I am recalling the same story... Had nothing to do with politics. It also happened many, many years ago.

Repression of religious freedom is worldwide, unfortunately. In other parts of the world you can be punished by death for turning to it. Hell, look what happened to the native Americans when the Europeans first came to settle.

It's sad, but true. Respect of differences in culture and beliefs has probably never been more acceptable than it is now...
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You have internet...you can get CNN.com
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Well thanks for that little bit of info. Ill be sure to check it out 24/7 from now on. :) I'm not joking about the 24/7 either... kids keep me up just about that often... lmao
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Ok if its in his own home... in private... why was he fricken imprisoned? What zoning law does it violate exactly?
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All buildings have a maximum occupancy limit... This is usually set by fire marshalls, if I recall correctly. This is why when you walk into a restaurant or something similar, you will see Max occupancy signs posted. It's a safety concern. Having worked in hospitality for the last 10 years, I can say it's why any reputable hotel will not allow more than the allotted number of occupants to rent a room.

I am sure he was being made an example, but I wonder if he was warned prior to this? He created a hazardous environment for all involved, but I agree that actual jail time (which I highly doubt he will serve at all), it seems a little absurd. Had a house fire occurred and people harmed, especially with prior knowledge of zoning regulations, he could be serving much more...
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A bit more of the story here...

Two American Christian Pastors Jailed Within One Week in July

I find it funny that (his wife?) mentioned that sex toy parties and tupperware parties are permitted in homes, but not religious gatherings... Uhhh most people don't build 2,000 sq ft buildings for tupperware parties...

Anyhow, I am sure there is much, much more to it than this. It sounds almost cultish to me... :shudders:
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As long as you're an Islamist, Obama will go to the mat for you.

Look at his UN speech.
Usually, Conrad, I like your perspective on things, but I think this statement isn't entirely fair. How the term "Islamist" is defined is ambiguous in common parlance, too. In general, it is common to conflate religion and those who exploit religious ideologies to further their own ends. There are a lot of Muslims in America that are not trouble makers, just as there a lot of Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, and people of other religious denominations; I think Obama would probably go to bat for any of them, too, if hateful, deliberately anger-inciting gestures were made toward them in a way that was used as the basis for other kinds of sectarian and political violence. Choosing not to acknowledge the subtleties involved is unfair in spirit. These issues across the world have less to do with the religion and more to do with the politics that enable religion to justify them, in my opinion. I don't think that Obama is endorsing "Islamist" ideologies over any others, and definitely not in a way that privileges them in a manner that is oppressing the freedom of religion.

I thought there was some iffy stuff in Obama's speech, but that there was also a lot of good stuff in it.
 

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A bit more of the story here...

Two American Christian Pastors Jailed Within One Week in July

I find it funny that (his wife?) mentioned that sex toy parties and tupperware parties are permitted in homes, but not religious gatherings... Uhhh most people don't build 2,000 sq ft buildings for tupperware parties...

Anyhow, I am sure there is much, much more to it than this. It sounds almost cultish to me... :shudders:
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I didn't follow the links you provided Yin, and most likely you are correct that it was safety and zoning issues.

What gets me so riled up is why so often in situations like this PEOPLE FACE INCARCERATION?!?!

It is a municipal bylaw issue for Gawds sake, issue a warning or fine, condemn the premises and break it up, but so often people are arrested and jailed, but what possible CRIMINAL charges does he face? None...

and on that note, it also irks me how the blurriness between civil matters and criminal ones get too easily confused by the masses and the leaders that seem to like to blur the line. The whole debate of intellectual property is one thing that peeves me, the whole point is to protect the owner from losses, not to make an example out of offenders - if it were truly about loss then instead of seeking criminal charges, it should logically be in the interest of MPAA and other corporate groups to be going after unlawful downloaders and such in civil litigation. And in the above religious case it is about both public safety as well as municipal tax revenue.

I really don't understand how the idea of locking people up carries so much momentum, when there are so many other more reasonable solutions most of the time.
 

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Moxy,

I get annoyed when moral equivalence is drawn between someone who puts a UTube video clip on the internet and people who are involved with Holocaust denial.

BTW - when someone thought it was "art" to show Christ's Cross drenched in urine, the US Government funded it.

PublicEye.org - The Website of Political Research Associates

Our overwhelming sensitivity to the Rage Boys doesn't speak well for our future.

I can imagine the reaction to drenching Mohammed in urine - and the swift condemnation (by Obama and Hillary) that would follow.




Usually, Conrad, I like your perspective on things, but I think this statement isn't entirely fair. How the term "Islamist" is defined is ambiguous in common parlance, too. In general, it is common to conflate religion and those who exploit religious ideologies to further their own ends. There are a lot of Muslims in America that are not trouble makers, just as there a lot of Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, and people of other religious denominations; I think Obama would probably go to bat for any of them, too, if hateful, deliberately anger-inciting gestures were made toward them in a way that was used as the basis for other kinds of sectarian and political violence. Choosing not to acknowledge the subtleties involved is unfair in spirit. These issues across the world have less to do with the religion and more to do with the politics that enable religion to justify them, in my opinion. I don't think that Obama is endorsing "Islamist" ideologies over any others, and definitely not in a way that privileges them in a manner that is oppressing the freedom of religion.

I thought there was some iffy stuff in Obama's speech, but that there was also a lot of good stuff in it.


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A bit more of the story here...

Two American Christian Pastors Jailed Within One Week in July

I find it funny that (his wife?) mentioned that sex toy parties and tupperware parties are permitted in homes, but not religious gatherings... Uhhh most people don't build 2,000 sq ft buildings for tupperware parties...

Anyhow, I am sure there is much, much more to it than this. It sounds almost cultish to me... :shudders:
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Most people don't build a 2,000 sq ft "game room" onto their private home, under a permit specifically disallowing use as a church (among other public uses), and then claim it as a church to avoid property taxes on the house and income taxes on the tithes you're collecting--from the 80 friends a week coming to do Bible study.

Can't have it both ways. If you want a church, build a church and run it like a church. If you want a house, build a house and run it like a house. I'm pretty sure that tax fraud and zoning violations are good reasons to prosecute....even if it's a "pastor" doing it.
 

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Can't have it both ways. If you want a church, build a church and run it like a church. If you want a house, build a house and run it like a house. I'm pretty sure that tax fraud and zoning violations are good reasons to prosecute....even if it's a "pastor" doing it.
Like I said I didn't read the links, if he was running it as a church and expecting tax exempt status of a church, then yeah he has to follow zoning regulations. I don't think zoning violations is something that is "prosecutable" just requires remediation... however tax fraud on the other hand, depending on how much he defrauded taxpayers, that is indictable.
 
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