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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am trying to wrap my head around those who pull the classic bait and switch to get married.

My understanding of it is to put out sexually in order to get a stable relationship or get married. Once that is done, the sex slows way down or stops altogether.

In some situations I can understand a bait and switch, such as someone looking to gain a financially stable relationship (such as a golddigger) or someone who maybe looking to gain other material items, such as a home, or a father/mother figure for their children from a previous relationship.

But in most cases, those who seem to pull the bait and switch (based on what we read on boards such as TAM) do so solely as a means to get into a relationship/marriage and then drop the sexual activity rapidly after that. Many stories are of people who aren't rich, and the sex died off even before children.

As such, why would these people in those situations even want to pull the bait and switch? What is so special about being in a relationship (which is low/no sex) to them that they are willing to go to such measures to get it? Why do they stay when they have no desire for their partner sexually?
 

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I think that most single people in their twenties experience intense pressure to settle down and get married. It comes from family as well as friends. For women there is whole biological clock problem.

But most people in that age group are not very experienced sexually, and are carrying around a lot of nonsense beliefs about sex and marriage. The main one being that a good sex life is not that important to a marriage. Most parents don't teach their kids anything about sex, and go to tremendous lengths to appear as asexual beings in front of their children. So it's not really a surprise that a lot of people enter marriages where the sex is not good, thinking that this is a minor thing that will eventually work itself out.

At the same time, most people also understand that we need to act sexual in order to attract the opposite sex. So they use sex as bait, ignorant of the fact that sex is the most critical component of a healthy marriage. Sex should be something you use to evaluate possible partners not something you do in order to lure someone into a marital commitment for financial or medical reasons. But the notion of splitting up with someone who seems like a good marriage partner just because the sex isn't there seems wrong to a lot of people.

Do parents ask their kids how the sex is before giving their blessing for marriage?

No, but they should.
 

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Guys who have little interest in sex don't want to look wimpy or *****, so they get married. Look at all the gay guys who leave their wives after 15 years and 3 kids and move to the gayborhood.

Most women "settle" for a guy who doesn't really do it for them, but he's the best they can get. Those husbands are already behind the 8 ball and typically can't maintain whatever small sex rank they had in the beginning.

See a movie called "Blue Valentine."
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Interesting views. I'm just not sure I quite agree.

east2west, I do find it a bit hard to fathom that there is such a large amount of people who know that you need to act sexual to get a partner, yet also think that what gets you a partner won't matter a year or two after marriage. It sounds like saying you know putting gas in your car is a good idea now, but you expect your car to just start running on it's own in a couple of years.

I agree though that there is a societal push to get married and a grim lack of communication on the sexual component of marriage, and its importance not just by parents, but by all of society. Hopefully as it gets to be more mainstream in the media, and we are seeing inroads in that regard, it will grow as a thought more in peoples minds.

Machivelli, I don't know if I can agree that men marry to not look wimpy or *****. I can see them 'playing the field' so to speak to achieve that level of appearance, but men don't face the same stigma that women do for sleeping around. There doesn't seem to be the same trapping of marriage to prove your sexual prowess for men as there is for women.

I do agree with you on the women aspect, but it once again brings me around to my original question; why get married to someone who doesn't do it for you anyways? Even if the best you can get for marriage is Mr. Mehh, why marry him? What is it these people are gettig? In most cases, people don't marry simply for security or medical or financial reasons anymore.
 

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You forgot to factor in a crippling fear of loneliness and self-esteem issues that a lot of people, women 18-30 especially, carry around with them at all times and cause them to believe being with Mr. Meh is infinitely preferable than spending time in their own company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It's financially rewarding. It's like playing the lottery without any risk and a guaranteed pay-out.
I would have agreed whole-heartedly on this years ago when women weren't as independent. Nowadays, more and more women have their own careers and in many cases now are making more than there spouses. On the flipside, a lot fewer men state that their wives income is much of a factor in selecting a marital partner. So I think the idea of a financial incentive for marriage is still there, but deminished compared to the past.

Once again though, that goes against what my original post was about, as I ruled out financial reasons from the equation.
 

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Simply put, the point of the bait and switch is to get what one wants.

When I started dating my H, he was so hot and sexy, I did something I'd never done in my entire life...I slept with him right away. Things were hot for awhile, then they dwindled a bit...then we moved in together...they continued to dwindle slowly...then he proposed...they dwindled some more...you get the idea.

He wanted me, he came after me, he got me...then he decided he didn't have to do the work anymore (sex-wise), and that's when some of our problems started.
 

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I think most people don't intend to do this when they originally get married.

Keeping sex alive and exciting takes work. You can ride the most thrilling roller coaster in the world everyday, but eventually the excitement fades.

I think many people don't realize that it takes work to keep it fresh and exciting. Many people just feel that it is natural for the excitement to go away. They don't put any work into it and this leads to not very much sex.

I still want sex. I put in the work, but my wife doesn't. She tells me that I need to talk to her more. I need to listen better. I need to do more around the house. I do those things and then she complains that I don't do ENOUGH of those things. Then when I do more of those things, she accuses me of only doing them because I want sex.

I like to think that my wife didn't PLAN to marry me and then make my life miserable by with holding sex.
 

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Just because there was a dramatic switch doesn't mean that what preceded was a bait. A person could be convinced that marriage will magically make everything better and find that it isn't the case leading to immediate behavior change right after the wedding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I guess my question would then be SadSam why does your wife not want an exciting sex life? Or even a sex life period (not saying you don't have one, just read on here)?

I get that excitement wanes. It totally does. But does it really wane so much that a wife thinks planning a game of cards on the computer is a better way to spend an hour than being with her husband (or vice versa), or was it just not really there to begin with and she simply worked at making herself be 'in the mood' before and now she doesn't bother?

Because really, if you work at doing anything during dating and then elect to stop working at it after marriage, that's a bait and switch, whether or not it's sex, doing the dishes or taking the dog for a walk. Baiting and switching regarding sex is just much more damaging in all likelihood.
 

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I think most people don't intend to do this when they originally get married.

Keeping sex alive and exciting takes work. You can ride the most thrilling roller coaster in the world everyday, but eventually the excitement fades.

I think many people don't realize that it takes work to keep it fresh and exciting. Many people just feel that it is natural for the excitement to go away. They don't put any work into it and this leads to not very much sex.

I still want sex. I put in the work, but my wife doesn't. She tells me that I need to talk to her more. I need to listen better. I need to do more around the house. I do those things and then she complains that I don't do ENOUGH of those things. Then when I do more of those things, she accuses me of only doing them because I want sex.

I like to think that my wife didn't PLAN to marry me and then make my life miserable by with holding sex.
You're right. My husband started off with sex because he thinks that's what you're supposed to do in the beginning...then, after an acceptable (in his mind!) amount of time, it stops. He doesn't think couples have all that much sex, especially if they've been together a long time. He thinks its natural progression...he doesn't think it's normal for people to continue having sex like they do when they first hook up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just because there was a dramatic switch doesn't mean that what preceded was a bait. A person could be convinced that marriage will magically make everything better and find that it isn't the case leading to immediate behavior change right after the wedding.
But is that because the spouse changed as well? If you go into marriage and then lower your sexual output because your spouse also stopped doing what he/she did pre-marriage, that's not a bait and switch. That's just losing appeal for your spouse.

If your spouse however continues to be the same person, or even tries harder, yet you simply don't see marriage as some fantastic fantasy, that's a bait and switch. Maybe not an intentional one, but you still used sex as a means to get to your pre-conceived fantasy world.
 

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I tend to think they start out believing their partner is the right one for them. I think time and life experience with that partner reveal to them their true inner strength and abilities due to the partner helping to bring this out in them.

Once this happens, the marital partner who was interested in lots of sex, realizes this "new" wife or husband that has come out is not the person they married and who brought them pleasure.

At that point, the attraction slowly dies and so does the sex. New and different men or women are introduced into the wayward's life who were never a possibility before. This due to the change which the BS helped to create in the person they married.

Now, it's just a matter of time till the WS finds the new appropriate partner instead of realizing the one who helped make you the better person you are now, is really the one you ought to have respect, admiration, love, affection and attraction for.

It's a short term memory problem coupled with a lack of understanding the dynamics of how they got to the point where they were attractive to new prospective partners.
 

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Machivelli, I don't know if I can agree that men marry to not look wimpy or *****. I can see them 'playing the field' so to speak to achieve that level of appearance, but men don't face the same stigma that women do for sleeping around. There doesn't seem to be the same trapping of marriage to prove your sexual prowess for men as there is for women.

I'm guessing you're younger than me (most people are). Marriage isn't, perhaps I should say "wasn't", a way to prove male virility in times gone by, but to prove normalcy. Think of Abe's boyfriend Joshua Speed being forced by his family to marry a woman. The shake out on these guys seems to be about age 40 when they have to let their "real self" out to play publicly. Now that male homosexuality has society's stamp of full approval and encouragement, there should be less of this. Theoretically.

Similarly, prior to 30 years ago, even coxmen were always under pressure to settle down and marry. It was expected that men wished to pass their genes on to another generation and marriage was the accepted institution for that in Western society. This is changing fast, but it still goes on.

I do agree with you on the women aspect, but it once again brings me around to my original question; why get married to someone who doesn't do it for you anyways? Even if the best you can get for marriage is Mr. Mehh, why marry him? What is it these people are gettig? In most cases, people don't marry simply for security or medical or financial reasons anymore.
Every woman wants a wedding day.
 

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I guess my question would then be SadSam why does your wife not want an exciting sex life? Or even a sex life period (not saying you don't have one, just read on here)?

I get that excitement wanes. It totally does. But does it really wane so much that a wife thinks planning a game of cards on the computer is a better way to spend an hour than being with her husband (or vice versa), or was it just not really there to begin with and she simply worked at making herself be 'in the mood' before and now she doesn't bother?

Because really, if you work at doing anything during dating and then elect to stop working at it after marriage, that's a bait and switch, whether or not it's sex, doing the dishes or taking the dog for a walk. Baiting and switching regarding sex is just much more damaging in all likelihood.
I think what you are missing is the work aspect. You keep saying that people work at it in the beginning but quit working on it when they get married

What really happens is that for the first few years, there is very little work required. It just happens!
 

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I think that most single people in their twenties experience intense pressure to settle down and get married. It comes from family as well as friends. For women there is whole biological clock problem.

But most people in that age group are not very experienced sexually, and are carrying around a lot of nonsense beliefs about sex and marriage. The main one being that a good sex life is not that important to a marriage. Most parents don't teach their kids anything about sex, and go to tremendous lengths to appear as asexual beings in front of their children. So it's not really a surprise that a lot of people enter marriages where the sex is not good, thinking that this is a minor thing that will eventually work itself out.

At the same time, most people also understand that we need to act sexual in order to attract the opposite sex. So they use sex as bait, ignorant of the fact that sex is the most critical component of a healthy marriage. Sex should be something you use to evaluate possible partners not something you do in order to lure someone into a marital commitment for financial or medical reasons. But the notion of splitting up with someone who seems like a good marriage partner just because the sex isn't there seems wrong to a lot of people.

Do parents ask their kids how the sex is before giving their blessing for marriage?

No, but they should.
Yes. :iagree:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm guessing you're younger than me (most people are). Marriage isn't, perhaps I should say "wasn't", a way to prove male virility in times gone by, but to prove normalcy. Think of Abe's boyfriend Joshua Speed being forced by his family to marry a woman. The shake out on these guys seems to be about age 40 when they have to let their "real self" out to play publicly. Now that male homosexuality has society's stamp of full approval and encouragement, there should be less of this. Theoretically.

Similarly, prior to 30 years ago, even coxmen were always under pressure to settle down and marry. It was expected that men wished to pass their genes on to another generation and marriage was the accepted institution for that in Western society. This is changing fast, but it still goes on.



Every woman wants a wedding day.
Perhaps, though I guess my focus is more on now, not what went on 10-40 years ago. The entire acceptance of gay marriage has been radically transformed between now and then as well.

Btw, I'm 35.

Also, I do get the appeal of a wedding day for a woman (my fiancee is planning ours and even though we got engaged in April and the wedding day isn't until July, 2014, she's been going on about it almost daily) but do you really think that having a wedding day is so important that a woman would get married? That seems like a lot of consequences for one special day. I'm sure some do, but I'd believe they'd be in the minority.

I think what you are missing is the work aspect. You keep saying that people work at it in the beginning but quit working on it when they get married

What really happens is that for the first few years, there is very little work required. It just happens!
I do agree that sex is much easier to get aroused for in the beginning. My point is more towards relationships we see on TAM where a couple goes from having sex say 2-3x a week to once every few months after. Does it really seem likely that a simple drop in arousal could account for such a dramatic shift in frequency, or was the LD spouse simply working harder at getting in the mood before marriage and now is no longer trying, along with the lack of that initial excitement?
 

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But is that because the spouse changed as well? If you go into marriage and then lower your sexual output because your spouse also stopped doing what he/she did pre-marriage, that's not a bait and switch. That's just losing appeal for your spouse.

If your spouse however continues to be the same person, or even tries harder, yet you simply don't see marriage as some fantastic fantasy, that's a bait and switch. Maybe not an intentional one, but you still used sex as a means to get to your pre-conceived fantasy world.
I would think it would be because the spouse didn't change. It sounds silly, but some people expect the marriage itself to improve things and when they stay the same it throws them. It's like when a marriage is bad and they think that having a baby will be the magical "missing ingredient."

Sex could be good before the wedding because the couple is living in the fantasy at that point. The expectations which are so unrealistic still haven't been crushed so the couple is excited and happy and the sex is abundant. The wedding marks the end of the fantasy. The root of the problem is unrealistic expectations.
 
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