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Discussion Starter · #101 · (Edited)
the majority of men also want a partner , kids , stability , and love . you do not need to be married to have those things .
men are looking for love the same as women are . the difference is men still want to have sex while were looking for love .
.....and drive many cars out of the station - enjoying that test driving while he's looking for the one he wants to own...even though he doesn't seem to care about the certificate of ownership.

one of my main points is a woman should not find any man who would look down on them for having sex as an good option for a partner .
I couldn't ask for a more loving partner in this life.... and I feel as he does about emotionless/ commitmentless promiscuity...

Costa200 said: For a woman it is highly advantageous to be with a high attraction value male. It doesn't matter if he had tons of lovers. In fact it does matter. It increases his value.
Oh Costa... When I read things like this, the heat is starting to rise :FIREdevil:.... my claws wanting to come out ....When others talk like this.... alot on that Alpha thread in the Men's clubhouse right now...how they put down the gentlemen who treats his gf like she matters the most in his world, this makes him foolish....weak...then on top of this - "User" men have higher value over the man who waits for Love.

... We are not a bunch of toothless homely hillbillies by any means... a person's value is in the eye of the beholder -how they enrich our lives....For me, knowing a man didn't sleep around to raise his sex rank -but instead cared enough to wait for LOVE...some things in life are Priceless, this is one of those. Studies are interesting, but anything that would group my husband into a "lesser value" bucket - due to society's norms...well....

This is how I feel about such a study >>



I may agree with how you feel about women waiting (my reasons are for her best interests due to men's animalistic intentions) ... but I could never belittle the man who restrains his lusts for the love & intimacy of 1 special woman, as his gift to her...I praise such men as these.... how very rare a find in this world today. Some men can't get the booty... and some choose to pass on emotionless uncommitted EASY sex....there is a huge difference in that.



Costa200 said: Take notice that what this means is that women will try to get 10% of the males. The highly attractive ones. The rest they will settle with for their resources.

You spoke of a double standard. Here it is your way to solve it. Get rid of the "patriarchy". Convince women to choose only chaste men... Convince them to have their way of evaluate men to fit a normal bell curve. I won't hold my breath on that.


They will want to get with the top 10% males and will not care if they have copulated with hundreds before them. See it here? This is how it is, as opposite to what it should be (in your mind).
Again, some of us care, it may be a very small minority but we exist. I may have made a few mistakes in my life, but "settling" on a man.. this was never one of them. I also didn't marry him for his resources, he worked in a Grocery Store at the time, I made a little more than him even ~ we built everything hand in hand -with just our shared dreams & responsible living leading the way....This was us back then >>

Even Though We Ain't Got Money - I'm so in love with ya honey, And everything will bring a chain of love. And in the morning when I rise, you bring a tear of joy to my eyes, And tell me everything is gonna be alright.

Costa200 said: If you can't understand that a number one guy has reasons to feel great about himself while number 100 guy has a lot less, then i must really question what kind of guy you are.

If i'm the first to climb the Everest i'm top of the world. If i'm number 100 i'm just one more. Is this a hard notion to grasp?
So it's all about how the man feels special...

excuse the sarcasm but


..... what about the woman ...you think a virgin Bride is happy knowing she is his 100th lay? Come on now... Sure they attach to such men & love them dearly.... what choice do they have ~ since all men are horny dogs who can't keep it in their pants, it's expected behavior ... but for the woman who feels deeply ...restraining herself for
... it makes sense she'd also prefer "her man" felt similar in this, I do believe she would wipe his past -if she was able. In this way, the woman must settle -because the choice, her pickings are so scant in men. IF you asked every virgin Bride if they would have had their husband a former Playboy or him be her 1st... I believe I'd be right.

The women who HAVE had many partners, of course they don't care.

Not trying to jack this thread but real love comes when we are willing to accept our partner (sexually) even when we realize their faults. And, we all have faults... So when you really love you are willing to accept the faults of your spouse.
I so agree with you Drerio... we accept our spouses as they are, cause we sure ain't the end all ourselves sometimes, now are we !? :)
 

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Again, some of us care, it may be a small minority but we exist.
Of course you do! The question is that statistics are based on big numbers. Quite honestly good women are a rarity and a man does well to search long and hard for them. The vice versa is obviously true also.

So it's all about how the man feels special - what about the woman ...you think a woman who waits -would feel really special knowing she is his 100th lay? Come on now... To even suggest the women who did wait don't care at all about this -is very unreasonable.... in this way, they settle cause all men are dogs, so what can they do, but I surely don't feel they prefer this. Not those women- given a choice.
Some do care alright. On a rational level probably all do. Only that that part of our brain, the upper brain cortex doesn't control our attraction. Our limbic system is basically out of our conscient control.

In this case males and females differ fundamentally. But personally i agree that women should care. It's only they often really don't. In fact i've actually seen women ridicularizing a friend of mine who was a virgin at 20.

Pretty horrible episode that. Dude looked like he wanted the earth to open up and swallow him. In that moment i stepped down from my usually persona and tell them to their faces that he shouldn't be criticized for not wanting to soil himself with skanks (hinting i was talking about that particular group of women) if that wasn't his cup of tea. We then left the spot and left them just standing there.

One of those "bros before hoes" moments i believe. I then went into coach mode and advised him never reveal that again with such type of group again. Save it for a real relationship.
 

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:lol:

Nah... You didn't just say that!!! Pfffffff...

See a doctor and check your testosterone level dude, there is something not clicking there!

Many men are not seeking "love" at all! They just want to bust a nut. Don't believe me? Get out more!

if men are not looking for love then tell me , why is it that we usually get into long term monogamous relationships ? why is it that we get married ? why is it that we do these things even after we have " busted a nut " with these women ?

90% of my friends are either married or in long term relationships .if you have friends take stock of their relationship status . if you do not have friends , maybe it is you who needs to get out more.....
 

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Again, it's your opinion. You're trying to press your sense of morality over something that is transcultural and biologically motivated. It's one of those situations where you cannot win. But you are totally free to try. Everyone is totally free to exploit every reproductive strategy available. What i explained is that there are biological reasons why that strategy fails.




Actually you have a totally skewed vision of what a woman's basic biology is. Female basic biology doesn't dictate that she roams through hundreds of partners. You've been fooled to think so due to some modern media. The fact is, most women don't actually want to bed hundreds of men.


if women did not want to have multiple sexual partners than why do the majority of women have multiple sex partners ? and if it is biologically motivated then why is it that only about 3% of all mammals are monogamous ?


What you're saying is that almost everywhere in the world men managed to train women that they don't want to bed men by the dozens.

That's a completely foolish notion of reality advanced by out of touch feminist thinkers. Young men would be more than happy to have willing females by the bucket loads. What you see is women educating other women that there are dangers doing it. Mothers tell their daughters that that path isn't rewarding in the long run. They know that its a road which will devalue them and will push them towards worse partners.




if it was a foolish notion of reality then why is it that through out history women have had little or no rights ? why is it that even in this country women did not have the right to vote until the early 20th century ? why is it that women sstill do not earn as much as men for the same jobs ? why is it that the 3 major religions are all ruled by men ? the list goes on and on . ...

that would be foolish if it was young men who teach girls . girls are taught by their fathers and mothers , and all adult family members that girls who have alot of sex are ****s . they are taught that they have to say no if they want a guy to respect them . they are not taught by young at all . to say it is young men that teach girls is just plain wrong .






You're wrong. If you want i can fetch the stats for it. Women are more likely to contract STDs thanks their very physiology. They have to receive secretions in their sexual tract and their mucosal cells are exposed during the sexual act.



See, this is the trip part. It doesn't. Women don't work that way and you won't be able to force them to. For a woman it is highly advantageous to be with a high attraction value male. It doesn't matter if he had tons of lovers. In fact it does matter. It increases his value.

Look at it in graphs:

This is how men evaluate women regarding looks:



Standard bell curve results as expected.



all people are first attracted by looks . the first thing we have to judge anyone by is what looks good to us . that is only initial attraction . it is not what 90% of people would say is their number one priority in a mate .




This is how women evalute men:





society teaches us what we think makes desireable mates , not biology . any study will reflect what the society being studied values . in most western societies men are rated on financial stability . there is even a song that says so in the lyrics . " girls dont like boys , girls like cars and money " .



Take notice that what this means is that women will try to get 10% of the males. The highly attractive ones. The rest they will settle with for their resources.



You spoke of a double standard. Here it is your way to solve it. Get rid of the "patriarchy". Convince women to choose only chaste men... Convince them to have their way of evaluate men to fit a normal bell curve. I won't hold my breath on that.


They will want to get with the top 10% males and will not care if they have copulated with hundreds before them. See it here? This is how it is, as opposite to what it should be (in your mind).

This is biology in motion. Your morals are irrelevant.


we are a judeo-christian society . historically morals have always been much more important than biology in choosing a mate . even now as we become a less religious society morals are still much more important than biology when choosing a mate . that is the whole basis of of why women are considered ****s for having numerous sex partners .





Why would you laugh? Are you really saying that a woman who marries a virgin is as likely to cheat as a woman who has had dozens of partners? Are you for real? Seriously?


you said a the more sex partners a woman has had the more likely she is to be unfaithful . and the less she has had the less likely she is to be unfaithful . that is absolutely laughable , and ridiculous to even think . how likely a person is to remain faithful has nothing to do with number of past sexual partners . it has to do with a persons character , integrity , and respect . anyone who cheats on their partner shows a complete lack of character , integrity , and respect for their partner . PERIOD .




Lets look at marriages and how long they last in regards to number of sexual partners shall we? Lets look at how your laughs hold up to the data:





since there is absolutely no way to tell how many sexual partners anyone has had , and it is well known that men inflate their number of partners and women deflate their number of partners , any study conducted will not be accurate . also since half of all marriages end in divorce , with the number going up all the time , any study on that will also be inaccurate .




Still laughing? This basically kills your idea that number of sexual partners is irrelevant. Yes, that's right, those feminist sources supporting "sex in the city" way of life don't actually parade this do they?

Let's face it. Your grandfathers and their ancestors were right. There is wife material and there is sex-until-i-find-my-wife material.



i am laughing at your very thought process . our grandfathers and ancestors were raised in a much society ruled by Christianity and dominated by Victorian views of sex . they routinely were virgins or had very few sex partners before they got married , and when they did marry it was usually for life . there were very few if any sex-until-i-find-my-wife girls .




As i said before, it doesn't matter if they control it or not. Women will not want virgins. That's it. Period.

You seem to be not seeing that women's standards do as much for the double standard as men's do. You cant expect men to bend their standards while women maintain theirs.



i do not fail to see this at all . women are taught standards that keep them subservient to men . women are taught standards that give them very little chance of having high self esteem . i do not expect men to change their standards . we have it good . women need to raise theirs .



You called yourself "pro-woman", whatever that means. I would call you "anti-man". You want changes but you seem to be pushing it for these to happen only in one side.


since half of all marriages end in divorce . with sex and money being the 2 top reasons for it . and me raising 3 daughters , i have tried my very best to teach them to be self confident , have high self esteem , determine their own value , make their own decisions , and have high standards when it comes to men . i am pro the women i raised .



Will never happen and i explained why already. Women sexual restrain is advantageous for both the males and themselves. Men's sexual restrain was never a positive genetically selected trait.

Blame nature if you want. But i'm not going to fight it just because you have a social agenda that intends to make women not "equal" to men, but "the same". There is a world of difference between the two notions.



it is not nature or biology . it is insecure men , who have used religion , to impose their dominance over women . i for one have never had any desire for a woman who i dominated . i have always wanted a partner . plain and simple .




Sorry, but that was plainly silly. By definition, people who wait and invest heavily into a relationship are much more likely to be really serious about it. And yes, it does show character and commitment.

You speak of honesty and integrity and reliability. Do you think a guy who gets your girls into bed after a night of partying will have demonstrated his qualities in that field? Can you not see that is plainly obvious that a man takes time to show all these and that the wait for sex makes it possible for him to show them or not?



i do not think that my girls will get into bed with a guy unless they want to get into bed with him . my daughters do not think having sex with a guy shows them what kind of person he is . they think what a man does in his every day life shows these qualities . guys can not talk . or fool my daughters into having sex with them . they do not have sex with a guy because they think he loves her , or respects her , or will stay with her , and they do not choose not to have sex based on these things either . they have sex because they choose to have sex . they are not victims , naieve , or gullible . my daughters have not been used by guys , but they have used a few themselves . and they are all currently in healthy , committed , steady relationships with guys who they feel are good enough for them .



And more, after just having sex for a night worth of banter, will he even care? Will he form a connection with the woman? He probably won't.

We are talking odds here. Do you want to make a poll directed at men and ask if they are more inclined to be with a woman who made them wait or not?


only if we can poll the same men asking if they have cheated on their partner , and if they are sexually satisfied with their partner .



Again, yes, i'm totally disregarding what you think men-women relationships should be and i'm working with what they are. I guess i'm not strong in "what if" scenarios, specially when it involves the happiness of my daughter.


most people do disregard what relationships should be . that is the reason for such a high divorce rate . most men have immature childish beliefs about women . beliefs like : women get all stretched out if they have had alot of sex . or women who have had many sexual partners will not be faithful . or women are virgins are better than women who are not . no wonder so many marriages dont last .



Do you know what an average is? The comparison between men and women isn't really what you are searching for. What really matters is that a smaller number of men get a large number of women and that a small number of women have a large number of sexual partners.


yes an average is what happens most often . a small number of men and women have lots of sexual partners . lets say 10% for the sake of this conversation . that means the other 80% have the same number of sexual partners . that right there should tell you that the number of sexual partners is either irrelevant , or lied about by 80% of people . my opinion is that it is both irrelevant and lied about for men and women .



And this becomes relevant when you think that the small number of men who get lots of women are in demand and the small number of women who have many sexual partners are not considered by the overwhelming majority of men as fit to engage in a long term relationship.


the number can not be relevant simply because 90% of people get married at least once in their life . the numbers tell us that the people who are in high demand , and the people who are not considered as marriage material are having sex with each other until then end up getting married . the conflict is not between what is and what i want it to be . the conflict is between what is and what people act like it is .



Again buddy, conflict between what it is and what you want it to be.




I really don't know what you are hinting at but i don't see anything funny about this notion. If you can't understand that a number one guy has reasons to feel great about himself while number 100 guy has a lot less, then i must really question what kind of guy you are.


youre right it is not funny , it is sad . it is sad to think that anyone would think that they are more or less special based on which number sexual partner they are to someone else . it is sad that someone could have such little self esteem . it is sad that some people think the only value they have is the value someone else gives them . it is sad knowing that there are so many sad excuses for men out there .

If i'm the first to climb the Everest i'm top of the world. If i'm number 100 i'm just one more. Is this a hard notion to grasp?
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
I am surprised how much this thread has evolved.

It started with how a wonderful mother will teach her daughter to be confident in herself and love herself, and know what she wants in a man, and what to look for,

And it has turned into people debating over biology and instinctual needs, and evolution. Very interesting.
Just for the record, this doesn't bother me, as it is interesting to hear opposing views, I surely do not feel everyone agrees with me, just my attempt to explain WHY I feel as I do...as a woman, as a Mom.

Also good to hear the detailed reasons why others oppose my views....some even desire a similar outcome -but use a different method entirely in raising their kids... for instance... Comparing ForeverMemorable's contribution on this thread.. I parent very differently ....but our views on how we desire our children handle sex is very similar. So that was interesting too.

It's fine. This is how informed people make descions, gathering, 2 - 3 - 4 sides of an issue... with a lot of side issues coming up along the way...like sexual attraction (biology), sex drive (instinctual needs) ....beliefs....these things are bound to come up ~ when you think about it. ;)

I would just kindly ask... don't let any Debating get to the point of a Mod needing to step in & get my thread LOCKED, this I would not be happy with .... we can all "agree to disagree"...this is cool. :)
 

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4. I will explain to my daughter, she WILL Have sexual urges, this is natural .... and to understand BOYS have those same urges -but raging 10 times MORE than she is feeling them- if that can even be imagined ! They are near blinded with LUST ...and this overflows out of thier mouths with flirtatious fury around the girls. To not be fooled, this has nothing ever to do with LOVE..... she needs to understand this completely, their minds have been near hi-jacked by Overloads of Testosterone. Some are scrambling to understand it themselves, their IS an immaturity there. Boys will also be compelled to look upon porn & oogle women, I don't care how "good" or "moral" they are, they will WANT to do this. My daughter will have a FINE education on the male sex drive.


This is helpful and really insightful stuff! We have a daughter and I want to think through what we will show and tell her about sex so that she has a balanced and healthy view of herself and doesn't have to hide things. I really like your thinking here about helping girls not be intimated or niave to the male sex drive. :smthumbup:
 

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Time to resurrect a zombie thread - this stuff is too good to be forgotten. Three years four months since it started and two years four months since it was last commented on.

I love the list, and I agree with every one of your points.

I just want to add one more: how to avoid infidelity. How to avoid becoming a betrayed spouse and how to avoid becoming a wayward spouse.

Much of this advice is at the end of the educating so to speak. It is for when relationships are moving from the courting to the serious consideration of marriage.

I will teach my daughters that privacy in marriage means that you close the door when you use the bathroom. There isn't privacy in your phone calls, text message, online relationships and so on. You give that openness, and demand that openness. Demand that you share when people aren't a friend of marriage, and cut toxic people out of your life.

I will teach my daughters that when you have little kids, you will be tempted to put you children first ALWAYS and ignore your husband. Don't to that, your children grow up but you want your marriage to be good for life. It doesn't mean neglecting your children, just don't ignore your husband. And hey, grandma and grandpa will love to take them off your hands.
 

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My daughter is very very very precious to me. After seeing 4 little penis's in a row when giving birth, I can not even express.. finally.... hearing ...
!! :yay::yay:


I count WHO my daughter marries oneday to be the single most important decision she will ever make in her entire life.....and how she handles her sexuality before she meets this man can not be under-estimated -in my opionion. It has the power & potential to destroy her dreams, or allow them to take flight to full fruition, with no regrets.




1. 1st, SEX will never be a dirty word in our household. I want my daughter to see playful displays of affection between me & her father, we do not hide kisses, hugs, even a little flirting, I want her to see a healthy happiness there. I also instill within her, even now - she can come to me with anything & everything, nothing will shock me, I understand human nature well, nor will I shame her for any subject. We are very open communicators in our family - It is a good foundation to be laid.

But 1st -what do I mean by SEX....I agree with this definition...."Having sex" means any consensual behavior between two individuals involving genital contact & bodily penetration. That means oral sex, anal sex, and vaginal sex are all "sex' " .... can read more here ..... The Definition of 'Sex'

2. I will teach my daughter .....Sex is beautiful thing ...but it has it's place, there is a time & a season for such beauty... it is meant to be shared between 2 people who LOVE each other. There is no greater pleasure God has given us on this earth, no emotional BONDING that has more meaning -as the giving & receiving in this way, that this act has the awesome potential to Create NEW LIFE..... that it should never be used casually, or carelessly, because of this very fact, It carries the greatest of responsibilities with it. It is the awesomest of the AWESOME. I will refer to it as "sacred" even.


3. I will teach my daughter not everyone looks at Sex as this Special. What she sees in the media, magazines, tv, music, hears in school, even sees friends experience - too often results in broken relationships where sex was ingaged in TOO QUICKLY, the "bad boys" being praised for their conquests, Girls giving themselves to these gamers in hopes "for love", women dressing to entice the hot guys -and for what ? Hearts ripped in 2, tears, loss of self esteem sometimes, pregnancy faced alone, Grandparents raising grandchildren, children growing up without fathers, a night of physical passion without connection? Rubbers can be worn but the brokenness that follows SCARS our entire society.

I will ask her how she feels about these things. I will ask her what SHE wants for her own life. I will tell her she has POWER, she has CHOICES....and to never be led by "the crowd". She is her own woman.

Also she MUST take responsibility for those choices. Personal Responsibility is HUGE in our family -I will not allow my TEENS to see themselves as "victims" - if they had a voice & a choice in the matter.

Sure we all make mistakes, we forge ahead living in the moment, none of us are perfect, but to KNOW the "games" others play, know the "RISKS" of each action before indulging & OWN your own "hand" in it- this is a must.


4. I will explain to my daughter, she WILL Have sexual urges, this is natural .... and to understand BOYS have those same urges -but raging 10 times MORE than she is feeling them- if that can even be imagined ! They are near blinded with LUST ...and this overflows out of thier mouths with flirtatious fury around the girls. To not be fooled, this has nothing ever to do with LOVE..... she needs to understand this completely, their minds have been near hi-jacked by Overloads of Testosterone. Some are scrambling to understand it themselves, their IS an immaturity there. Boys will also be compelled to look upon porn & oogle women, I don't care how "good" or "moral" they are, they will WANT to do this. My daughter will have a FINE education on the male sex drive.

A few comments from men themselves on the http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/34971-male-sex-drive.html thread about their youth, I appreciate their honesty! ....



5. I will explain to my daughter ...if a Boy truly has HER interests at heart (some are struggling with LUST & pangs of LOVE, their very own hearts).... if influenced by Genuine feelings of care & interest in MORE than some booty.... these boys will stick around, they will continue to woo her, "wait" for HER- every part of her, they will listen to her, they will take "the time" - (of course they will be fantasizing like mad in addition) but still they will try to BE that gentleman for their "lady".....take her out , make plans to enjoy things together, talks walks & talk, call her just to hear her voice, learn of her as a person, ask what she enjoys & make that happen. :)

These boys may itch to get in her pants, but she should never JUMP... if she is interested in them, TEST them with the ruler of TIME, allow them to openly reveal their "heart" in regards to her. This is wisdom.



I am of the belief.... Although ALL men LOVE & crave sex, they will "wait" & pursue the one girl that captures their heart & soul. Once they are "caught", they are ensnared. Love is the most amazing thing on this earth. The greatest love songs ever penned were written by MEN in love.



6. When she starts dating herself -being alone with a boy turning into a man, I will likely share how me & her father handled ourselves before we married. Where our boundaries were....was MORE than the Church would consider "moral" but it was LESS than what the majority, even within the church pew did themselves! So let the judgers judge. But for us... it kept us from burning with LUST, an "emotional connection" grew & we still had something "NEW" to bring to our Wedding night, what we deemed the most sacred to give to each other .

My daughter will have to decide for herself what her "personal boundaries" will be in this area.

Some women can enjoy Sex without an emotional connection... I personally can not understand this at all, I am greedy!! I would want BOTH, LUST is passionate & all Consuming -YES ! ....but I would want MORE from that man, I would tie myself to him, want to posses him , It would utterly DEVESTATE me if he did not feel the same as I, was cold the next day or ....gone.

I will talk openly to my daughter about this side of sex also, and ask how she would feel about such things. Explaining MANY men can separate this, one night stands are common. But I will always believe, overwhelmingly more women get HURT by these, loosing a part of themselves along the way.


7. I will speak openly about STD's/ veneral diseases with my daughter.....she MUST not be ignorant of the physical ramifications that can come upon her body, some for life. Many do not even know they have it -when it is transmitted. Untreated, some can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease- which causes Infertility- which can risk her future chances of being a mother. STD's That Cause Infertility

A list here:
Sexually Transmitted Diseases: Rhode Island Department of Health

8. I will teach my daughter there is a heavy EMOTIONAL side to sex.... Sex releases certain chemicals in our brains that change the way we think ...the hormones released work to bond us to our partner, it's like gluing two pieces of paper together. If you tried to tear those pages apart, the break wouldn't be a clean one. The same kind of thing happens when there's a breakup in a sexual relationship. These break ups can be as painful as mini-divorces. If this happens over & over & over, it has a way of de-personalizing our emotions.

Also, these sexual memories of our 1st, 2nd, 3rd boyfriends may linger in our psyche, show up in the bedroom later with our very husbands, comparisons creep in. We may wish he was as BIG as #1, or his oral skills was as arousing as #2. It is just something to consider. Of coarse men can do this also, comparing old girlfriends to thier wives. Then we have the whole Facebook debacle with old lovers befriending each other & the nightmare that brings.


9. Although many men will not care how many partners a girl had in her youth -they may even be ecstatic she is experienced & could show him a thing or 2! There are SOME men out there who will care, it has Great meaning to them -and it is not as much about "insecurities"...as much as it is about "the sacredness" they attach to "love making" -they feel this is the Greatest gift one can give their future bride/husbands, worthy of the waiting- hard as it may be to contain. My oldest son feels this way-strongly , I will not belittle that ..but being such a pure Virgin, I feel has it's RISKS also ...which brings me to ...


10. Sexual Repression is far too common - 1 hinderance I do not wish upon any of my children, although I want them to wait -make sure they are loved & cherished BEFORE they "give" their full selves to another.

I will teach my daughter ... If she is going to be in a relationship with a man, she needs to understand him, and have compassion on what HE is going through physically, if he is willing to wait for her - IF that is even her desire. And a man NEEDS to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that even though she may not be READY to engage in genital to genital contact with him, that she craves physical intimacy with him, , that she is deeply sexually attracted to him. I would hope their openness would blossom to Orgasm talk & how they feel about them, as I feel a man should KNOW these things about any woman he marries. This gives him some indication of her sex drive, as this could vary greatly from woman to woman.

This will be very unpopular advice for strict religious believers, but I feel it is terribly RISKY for a high drive man to marry a pure untouched virgin, he really has NO IDEA if she will even ENJOY sex - which "could" put him in a near prison once married, if she finds out she doesn't care for it after the vows. LOVE is NOT ENOUGH to keep that flame alive, Healthy sex is vital to all marriages. I've read too many personal stories, very heart breaking.

I knew of one couple who didn't even KISS until their wedding day. Do I think they are crazy...yeah pretty much... but I guess it worked out for THEM, he was not resentful, they waited, they have no regrets..to each our own in our ...personal boundaries. So long as both is on the same page, you may have found your "match" made in Heaven.

I don't feel she needs to be so pure as to either of them burning with lust, while near crying to touch each other. I think we need to ENJOY each others body to some degree, even give each other pleasure. I think the problem most would have is..they wouldn't be able to stop- once they got going. I guess me & my husband are not the norm, we never went over our boundaries in this regard- though I sure remember wanting too! .




I love this......thank you from the bottom of my heart......my daughter and son are all that I have left.......I will share this with both of them........
 

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larry.gray said: I just want to add one more: how to avoid infidelity. How to avoid becoming a betrayed spouse and how to avoid becoming a wayward spouse.

Much of this advice is at the end of the educating so to speak. It is for when relationships are moving from the courting to the serious consideration of marriage.

I will teach my daughters that privacy in marriage means that you close the door when you use the bathroom. There isn't privacy in your phone calls, text message, online relationships and so on. You give that openness, and demand that openness. Demand that you share when people aren't a friend of marriage, and cut toxic people out of your life.
Couldn't agree more with you here.. I feel so strongly on these points, it would be in my 1st 5 deal breakers with a man...though if it has to be "demanded"- I would be very concerned....it should be something we want to give willingly....did you ever see this thread of mine...

...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...parency-what-means-our-marraige-what-you.html

... I tried to dissect how THIS works ...that a couple understand the sheer importance of sharing at the "seed stage" of any issues ....this means the uncomfortable, the vulnerable....so it doesn't have a chance to grow...but 2 going forth together ...because >> secrets carry power...

This is not always easy on either side..so we must stop, REALLY LISTEN....show understanding...and NOT always expect perfection.. it's a deep subject really..... it can only be achieved by 2 willing partners able to look at their own hand.. who truly value transparency...and what this can bring to a marriage...


larry.gray saidI will teach my daughters that when you have little kids, you will be tempted to put you children first ALWAYS and ignore your husband. Don't to that, your children grow up but you want your marriage to be good for life. It doesn't mean neglecting your children, just don't ignore your husband. And hey, grandma and grandpa will love to take them off your hands.
this is where I personally failed...it could have been worse though, we still did everything together... it was more like "family family family" - and we lost some of the FUN, passion, giddy Flirtation of what could have been -even with kids...

We always had this "open door" thing going on, they would crash on the carpet in the bedroom, had 1 in bed with us.. we were something like this..minus the chicken & replace that dog with a cat...



We never took an overnight for just US....rarely did a date out even...I recall my Aunt insisting on watching our kids after we had our daughter - so we could get out...and I remember thinking..sitting across from him at the table.... "Oh my - what do we even talk about -if not the kids?" ... now that should have been like an alert to me.. THAT MOMENT...but it slipped... :(

Then ...yeah.. I went a little overboard in Mid Life thinking "
what was wrong with me.. we need to get out & enjoy - forget the kids ~ I wanted to run away from them!!..
I felt like this old classic I Think We`re Alone Now ...

Running just as fast as we can,
Holdin' onto one another's hand,
Tryin' to get away into the night,
And then you put your arms around me,
And we tumble to the ground,
And then you say,
I think we're alone now,
There does't seem to be anyone around.
I think we're alone now,
The beating of our hearts is the only sound.
Betrayedone said: I love this......thank you from the bottom of my heart......my daughter and son are all that I have left.......I will share this with both of them....
You sound like a wonderful Father...and I appreciate your taking the time to read & comment ....
 

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My daughter is very very very precious to me. After seeing 4 little penis's in a row when giving birth, I can not even express.. finally.... hearing ...
!! :yay::yay:


I count WHO my daughter marries oneday to be the single most important decision she will ever make in her entire life.....and how she handles her sexuality before she meets this man can not be under-estimated -in my opionion. It has the power & potential to destroy her dreams, or allow them to take flight to full fruition, with no regrets.




1. 1st, SEX will never be a dirty word in our household. I want my daughter to see playful displays of affection between me & her father, we do not hide kisses, hugs, even a little flirting, I want her to see a healthy happiness there. I also instill within her, even now - she can come to me with anything & everything, nothing will shock me, I understand human nature well, nor will I shame her for any subject. We are very open communicators in our family - It is a good foundation to be laid.

But 1st -what do I mean by SEX....I agree with this definition...."Having sex" means any consensual behavior between two individuals involving genital contact & bodily penetration. That means oral sex, anal sex, and vaginal sex are all "sex' " .... can read more here ..... The Definition of 'Sex'

2. I will teach my daughter .....Sex is beautiful thing ...but it has it's place, there is a time & a season for such beauty... it is meant to be shared between 2 people who LOVE each other. There is no greater pleasure God has given us on this earth, no emotional BONDING that has more meaning -as the giving & receiving in this way, that this act has the awesome potential to Create NEW LIFE..... that it should never be used casually, or carelessly, because of this very fact, It carries the greatest of responsibilities with it. It is the awesomest of the AWESOME. I will refer to it as "sacred" even.


3. I will teach my daughter not everyone looks at Sex as this Special. What she sees in the media, magazines, tv, music, hears in school, even sees friends experience - too often results in broken relationships where sex was ingaged in TOO QUICKLY, the "bad boys" being praised for their conquests, Girls giving themselves to these gamers in hopes "for love", women dressing to entice the hot guys -and for what ? Hearts ripped in 2, tears, loss of self esteem sometimes, pregnancy faced alone, Grandparents raising grandchildren, children growing up without fathers, a night of physical passion without connection? Rubbers can be worn but the brokenness that follows SCARS our entire society.

I will ask her how she feels about these things. I will ask her what SHE wants for her own life. I will tell her she has POWER, she has CHOICES....and to never be led by "the crowd". She is her own woman.

Also she MUST take responsibility for those choices. Personal Responsibility is HUGE in our family -I will not allow my TEENS to see themselves as "victims" - if they had a voice & a choice in the matter.

Sure we all make mistakes, we forge ahead living in the moment, none of us are perfect, but to KNOW the "games" others play, know the "RISKS" of each action before indulging & OWN your own "hand" in it- this is a must.


4. I will explain to my daughter, she WILL Have sexual urges, this is natural .... and to understand BOYS have those same urges -but raging 10 times MORE than she is feeling them- if that can even be imagined ! They are near blinded with LUST ...and this overflows out of thier mouths with flirtatious fury around the girls. To not be fooled, this has nothing ever to do with LOVE..... she needs to understand this completely, their minds have been near hi-jacked by Overloads of Testosterone. Some are scrambling to understand it themselves, their IS an immaturity there. Boys will also be compelled to look upon porn & oogle women, I don't care how "good" or "moral" they are, they will WANT to do this. My daughter will have a FINE education on the male sex drive.

A few comments from men themselves on the http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/34971-male-sex-drive.html thread about their youth, I appreciate their honesty! ....



5. I will explain to my daughter ...if a Boy truly has HER interests at heart (some are struggling with LUST & pangs of LOVE, their very own hearts).... if influenced by Genuine feelings of care & interest in MORE than some booty.... these boys will stick around, they will continue to woo her, "wait" for HER- every part of her, they will listen to her, they will take "the time" - (of course they will be fantasizing like mad in addition) but still they will try to BE that gentleman for their "lady".....take her out , make plans to enjoy things together, talks walks & talk, call her just to hear her voice, learn of her as a person, ask what she enjoys & make that happen. :)

These boys may itch to get in her pants, but she should never JUMP... if she is interested in them, TEST them with the ruler of TIME, allow them to openly reveal their "heart" in regards to her. This is wisdom.



I am of the belief.... Although ALL men LOVE & crave sex, they will "wait" & pursue the one girl that captures their heart & soul. Once they are "caught", they are ensnared. Love is the most amazing thing on this earth. The greatest love songs ever penned were written by MEN in love.



6. When she starts dating herself -being alone with a boy turning into a man, I will likely share how me & her father handled ourselves before we married. Where our boundaries were....was MORE than the Church would consider "moral" but it was LESS than what the majority, even within the church pew did themselves! So let the judgers judge. But for us... it kept us from burning with LUST, an "emotional connection" grew & we still had something "NEW" to bring to our Wedding night, what we deemed the most sacred to give to each other .

My daughter will have to decide for herself what her "personal boundaries" will be in this area.

Some women can enjoy Sex without an emotional connection... I personally can not understand this at all, I am greedy!! I would want BOTH, LUST is passionate & all Consuming -YES ! ....but I would want MORE from that man, I would tie myself to him, want to posses him , It would utterly DEVESTATE me if he did not feel the same as I, was cold the next day or ....gone.

I will talk openly to my daughter about this side of sex also, and ask how she would feel about such things. Explaining MANY men can separate this, one night stands are common. But I will always believe, overwhelmingly more women get HURT by these, loosing a part of themselves along the way.


7. I will speak openly about STD's/ veneral diseases with my daughter.....she MUST not be ignorant of the physical ramifications that can come upon her body, some for life. Many do not even know they have it -when it is transmitted. Untreated, some can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease- which causes Infertility- which can risk her future chances of being a mother. STD's That Cause Infertility

A list here:
Sexually Transmitted Diseases: Rhode Island Department of Health

8. I will teach my daughter there is a heavy EMOTIONAL side to sex.... Sex releases certain chemicals in our brains that change the way we think ...the hormones released work to bond us to our partner, it's like gluing two pieces of paper together. If you tried to tear those pages apart, the break wouldn't be a clean one. The same kind of thing happens when there's a breakup in a sexual relationship. These break ups can be as painful as mini-divorces. If this happens over & over & over, it has a way of de-personalizing our emotions.

Also, these sexual memories of our 1st, 2nd, 3rd boyfriends may linger in our psyche, show up in the bedroom later with our very husbands, comparisons creep in. We may wish he was as BIG as #1, or his oral skills was as arousing as #2. It is just something to consider. Of coarse men can do this also, comparing old girlfriends to thier wives. Then we have the whole Facebook debacle with old lovers befriending each other & the nightmare that brings.


9. Although many men will not care how many partners a girl had in her youth -they may even be ecstatic she is experienced & could show him a thing or 2! There are SOME men out there who will care, it has Great meaning to them -and it is not as much about "insecurities"...as much as it is about "the sacredness" they attach to "love making" -they feel this is the Greatest gift one can give their future bride/husbands, worthy of the waiting- hard as it may be to contain. My oldest son feels this way-strongly , I will not belittle that ..but being such a pure Virgin, I feel has it's RISKS also ...which brings me to ...


10. Sexual Repression is far too common - 1 hinderance I do not wish upon any of my children, although I want them to wait -make sure they are loved & cherished BEFORE they "give" their full selves to another.

I will teach my daughter ... If she is going to be in a relationship with a man, she needs to understand him, and have compassion on what HE is going through physically, if he is willing to wait for her - IF that is even her desire. And a man NEEDS to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that even though she may not be READY to engage in genital to genital contact with him, that she craves physical intimacy with him, , that she is deeply sexually attracted to him. I would hope their openness would blossom to Orgasm talk & how they feel about them, as I feel a man should KNOW these things about any woman he marries. This gives him some indication of her sex drive, as this could vary greatly from woman to woman.

This will be very unpopular advice for strict religious believers, but I feel it is terribly RISKY for a high drive man to marry a pure untouched virgin, he really has NO IDEA if she will even ENJOY sex - which "could" put him in a near prison once married, if she finds out she doesn't care for it after the vows. LOVE is NOT ENOUGH to keep that flame alive, Healthy sex is vital to all marriages. I've read too many personal stories, very heart breaking.

I knew of one couple who didn't even KISS until their wedding day. Do I think they are crazy...yeah pretty much... but I guess it worked out for THEM, he was not resentful, they waited, they have no regrets..to each our own in our ...personal boundaries. So long as both is on the same page, you may have found your "match" made in Heaven.

I don't feel she needs to be so pure as to either of them burning with lust, while near crying to touch each other. I think we need to ENJOY each others body to some degree, even give each other pleasure. I think the problem most would have is..they wouldn't be able to stop- once they got going. I guess me & my husband are not the norm, we never went over our boundaries in this regard- though I sure remember wanting too! .




I wish my mom taught me these. I grew up in a conservative family and whatever knowledge I have about sex came from the mass media and the internet since nobody was willing to talk about it. Thank you.
 

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This thread gives me hope, especially considering all the "pro-porn" threads on TAM. One guy even says porn saved his marriage.

If you believe in what was stated in the OP, then I have to think you think porn is wrong. After all, that's somebody's daughter on the screen.
 

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This thread gives me hope, especially considering all the "pro-porn" threads on TAM. One guy even says porn saved his marriage.

If you believe in what was stated in the OP, then I have to think you think porn is wrong. After all, that's somebody's daughter on the screen.
When I was younger I was very much against porn.. felt it was all DISGUSTING ...I remember viewing it once in our younger yrs...(obviously too hard core)...it put a very sour taste in my mouth.. I even associated certain acts with porn because of this... which should have never been!! Now granted I was somewhat repressed...too much "good girl" thinking back then...which I must be honest here.. I very much regret & did a thread on that too!

I even complained about R rated movies...I hated the fact they were all jumping in bed quickly , not married...yet the scenes still sent an EROTIC shiver right to my private parts... it turned me [email protected]#$ darn it...so I still watched ...I also enjoyed reading a steamy romance.. (women's porn so they say)... just being honest here. :eek:

People have an allure to look upon the EROTIC, to read about it (the Higher drive you are, the more this will have a hold on you)...men especially... they are very visual (One of Testosterone's effects)...speaks how testosterone beefs up the man's hypothalamus, the area of the brain that's interested in sex...which is twice as large in men over us women - in a young man's youth, he has 20 X's more Test over us- this explains his sexual obsessions..

Understand What Sex Does to Your Brain

Now...women can get a taste of this in Mid Life too.. I did [email protected]#... It's why I landed here... it was messing with my head ...and lo & behold.. I started to LOVE Porn...viewing it was like "electric" ... {{{ sorry -just keeping it honest ! }}} Maybe it was WRONG OF ME.. but it didn't hurt our marriage in any way.. so I guess I am not feeling all that guilty about it.

I bought this collection of DVD's with real couples exploring a variety of Role playing, positions , tips & turn on's, demonstrations of Kama Sutra , presentations & explanations of sexual anatomy (including the elusive G-spot), erotic massage , fundamentals of foreplay - oral sex, erotic talk, sensual touch & kissing, to add passion & inspire creativity..

Better Sex Video Series: Sexplorations ...we greatly enjoyed it !

We rented porn for a time & I went after all the Dvd's like this..
Loving Sex DVDs | Alexander Institute ...

I have no desire to lie to anyone on this forum.. if others want to judge that....you are free to do so.

I am one for FREE expression / Liberty .... Do I think parents should do their BEST to mentor our sons & daughters to make informed choices in their younger yrs ..in regards to the opposite sex - even when their bodies feel on fire for each other...
[email protected]#$%^&*..

All they will get from SEX EDUCATION is a talking about not getting pregnant / avoiding STD's / "safe sex", just put a condom on it
.. and "CONSENT"...big debate on this now, even have "apps" for it since so many get drunk while engaging !

There is 0 talk on the emotional ramifications/ strings/ baggage of indulging too soon...the initial bonding, the breakups , which can lead to depression.. we all know SEX can be addicting [email protected]#...with the chemicals released in our brains....the dopamine (our pleasure hormone, has the effects of cocaine)... ocytocin and Vasopressin ...these are all "values-neutral"...

This is where we as parents NEED to step in.. guide our children...speak on these very important things as we raise them....make sure our children are not using sex for an escape also.. this is a good article...(even adults can do this!)

When Sex Becomes Escape. ~ elephant journal

But people will not always agree with me.. I have a book which explains the effects on our young people's brains...

Hooked: New Science on How Casual Sex is Affecting Our Children: Books

But having said all of this.....after the age of 18...it's out of our hands, some feel it is at 15 ..throwing their hands in the air saying.. "I remember what I did at that age!"...

If a young woman wants to pay for her college education by strip teasing or doing a little porn... what can we DO? Take Belle Know for example.. .. she defended HER RIGHT TO DO PORN, she feels it is empowering...(or did months ago.. I am not sure where she is today)...

Piers Morgan show- Belle Knox she speaks on how we are so repressed in our society...

Duke porn star Belle Knox: Rough sex empowering

Do I think its wise to do what Belle Knox did >>> I do not.. but I wouldn't take her right to do it away either...

I am one who happens to feel the church is too strict ...everything so hush hush...which often sets our children up to FALL... leaving them feeling ashamed / for these hormonal urges... and too often this too can lead to being sexually repressed...this is no good either !.....

Yet the world takes it to the other extreme, tossing out Love like it is nothing.. is there a happy balance?? .....We need to decide for ourselves what brings us the most fulfillment... and this answer may not BE the same for everyone....
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
I much appreciated this article - thankfully I had it saved...as the link is now broken....no matter our differing views...I think we could all agree on the ending ...

Embrace your sexuality | Metro

So, you like sex. Shame on you, right?

Many women, from post-war baby boomers to the fresh-faced crop of Generation Y, still have problems dealing with—even acknowledging—their own sensuality and sexuality. We navigate a minefield of religious and societal sanctions, health hazards, and a global media that bombards us with sexual imagery while at the same time being capable of uttering the words Sex, Sin and whor** in the same sentence. What are we as women to do? We asked a few readers and friends about embracing our own sexuality, and here’s what they had to say: Sexuality doesn’t mean promiscuity. Being sexual doesn’t mean sleeping around.

It’s not the number of men you’ve slept with that make your sex life truly fulfilling, but the quality of the sex, and how you feel about yourself after, that count. A woman can be her truest sexual self within the confines of a monogamous relationship—as a matter of fact, that’s where most women find the sexual identity they were looking for. As one married male musician tells us, “Finding and embracing your sexual self doesn't necessarily mean shame or being a sl**, particularly if your explorations are within the bounds of a loving, responsible relationship.”

Unshackle your mind

Although religious and moral codes are invaluable to maintaining order, they’re still rooted in an age where a woman’s sexuality was taboo. Those of us who are strong in our faiths find ourselves conflicted: how do we remain true to what we believe while still finding personal, emotional and sexual fulfillment?

Here, the choice is a personal one. But as we try to solve a dilemma that can erroneously be seen as a choice between body and soul, remember that many of the admonitions against what a woman thinks, feels and does are mired in an age when we were barely allowed to do any of the above.

Even our secular sisters feel the weight of social opinion. It’s especially galling because the condemnation for acting on our sexual feelings falls upon us, rather than on the broader backs of our brothers.“Men count their ‘conquests’ as notches on their belt, but women are considered ‘*****s’,” one banker observes. An article on sexuality suggested, perhaps tongue in cheek, that when women are asked how many people they’ve slept with, they halve their ‘number’, while men double theirs.

Find a safe place

We can’t express our sexuality if we feel pressured or threatened. In order to be truly fulfilled, we need to find a safe place... and that ‘place’ doesn’t necessarily mean a location. Safety has to do with being with someone you trust, who will open his mind wide enough to help you open yours.“Finding a safe place” also means making your life a maco-free zone. It’s a small country, and everyone knows somebody who knows somebody who did this, that and the other with somebody else. “Discreet” isn’t synonymous with “prudish”. Being sexual doesn’t mean getting drunk enough to whip off your top while a dozen cell phones upload your antics to the World Wide Web. Don’t feed the gossips. Better yet, get them out of your life. Who needs friends who spend more time getting their jollies over other people’s lives than living for themselves?

Remember, you’re not alone

The insurance agent in the grey suit patiently explaining your claim form to you was probably blindfolded and tied up last night. Your post-lady has an account at SexToysRUs.com. “The actions that society condemns in public, it commits behind closed doors,” one man suggests. We all like sex. We’re programmed to like sex. People are having more sex than you could possibly imagine, even those who act like butter won’t melt in their mouths.

...The key to enjoying our own sexuality is to remember that it’s not about what ‘people’ would think, but what we think. How great sex makes us feel, what a healing, bonding joy it is. Set the boundaries you feel comfortable with and play within them. And for the sake of love, don’t be too hard on yourself.... friend adds, “You judge yourself way harder than society does.” Embracing our sexuality is a life-long journey towards self-discovery; get yourself a First Class ticket to ride.
 

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This isn't about unshackling your mind, being open to your sexuality, or anything like that. This is about exploitation of women.

The average age a woman starts her "career" in the porn industry is 22. During her career she will sleep with approximately 150 people on camera; don't know how many she will sleep with off camera.

The OP was about learning about the emotional components of sex. About how you conduct yourself before you get married. About what parents want and hope for their daughters.

Porn doesn't fit into any of the moral teachings above. And it's not that sexuality or sex is wrong. It's about what it says about how we value people as humans, how we practice what we preach. You can't say the above to a young girl, send her to bed, and then turn on a porno. Your word means nothing at that point. Might as well tell her to not do drugs and then go get high on the back deck.

Of course, I can tell by how much you wrote that I won't convince you. But maybe the following will. These are quotes from women who once worked in porn:

Jessie Jewels: "People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time."
Genevieve:"I had bodily fluids all over my face that had to stay on my face for ten minutes. The abuse and degradation was rough. I sweated and was in deep pain. On top of the horrifying experience, my whole body ached, and I was irritable the whole day. The director didn't really care how I feltt; he only wanted to finish the video."
Roxy (Shelley): "They told me if had my AIDS test that I'd be safe. I arrived on the set with my test and did a hardcore scene with two men. Within that week I was very sick with a fever of 104 and blisters all over my mouth, throat and private area. I looked like a monster. The doctor told me I had Genital Herpes. I wanted to die."
Neesa: "The truth is I let my lifestyle get the best of me. I hate life. I'm a mess. A disaster. I've attempted suicide many times."
Jersey Jaxin: "Guys punching you in the face. You have semen from many guys all over your face, in your eyes. You get ripped. Your insides can come out of you. It's never ending."
Nadia Styles: "I found out 2 days later that I had caught gonorrhea in my first scene! As quick as that the glamour of being a porn star was gone. In the five years I was shooting I caught Gonorrhea and Chlamydia many times. Sometimes both at the same time about every 3-5 months."
 

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And by the way, porn star Belle Knox started her porn career at 18. Before going into porn, she was featured in a Catholic Christian magazine and a Christian newsletter about her volunteer work.

I guess she didn't find the lords work as "empowering." Sheesh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #119 ·
Porn doesn't fit into any of the moral teachings above. And it's not that sexuality or sex is wrong. It's about what it says about how we value people as humans, how we practice what we preach. You can't say the above to a young girl, send her to bed, and then turn on a porno. Your word means nothing at that point. Might as well tell her to not do drugs and then go get high on the back deck.

Of course, I can tell by how much you wrote that I won't convince you. But maybe you can meet a 40 year old, washed up porn star one day and she might be able to.
I don't know your story SurpriseMyself but I get the feeling you are one who KNOWS ALL ABOUT the Porn Industry & would take to task anyone who sets their eyes on a little porn. I am sure this means little to you, but anything demeaning, involving 3 people, basically 95% of porn we would both find DEGRADING & UGLY (I doubt I even have a clue how bad some of it IS).... we only enjoy the more sensual / romantic / SOFT... a story line is great, but rare to find. Things like this.. Xana and Dax: When Opposites Attract (Real People, Real Life, Real Sex series): there is no exploitation here.. these are real couples wanting to share their love story...

I don't see viewing romantic porn in the same light as doing drugs or harming anyone. If all porn was of THIS nature.. there would be far less backlash even.

I laid this out in part #3 ....If Belle Knox was our daughter, she would be taught the same.

I will ask her how she feels about these things. I will ask her what SHE wants for her own life. I will tell her she has POWER, she has CHOICES....and to never be led by "the crowd". She is her own woman.

Also she MUST take responsibility for those choices. Personal Responsibility is HUGE in our family -I will not allow my TEENS to see themselves as "victims" - if they had a voice & a choice in the matter..

Sure we all make mistakes, we forge ahead living in the moment, none of us are perfect, but to KNOW the "games" others play, know the "RISKS" of each action before indulging & OWN your own "hand" in it- this is a must.
I've been in a few discussions with those who are staunchly anti-porn ...you are right...in some of this ...we will not see eye to eye...at least not when it involves an adult woman of age... Some view all of them as Victims where I see a choice in the matter.

Also I want to add...I am not a Christian.. I was speaking as one who has always had a more Romantic View of Sexuality HERE....(but that doesn't necessarily rule out some enjoyment of EROTICA, some visual)...

I've taken some heat on this forum for my sexual views..

Christians reject me because I like a little porn (most of our friends are believers by the way)... Feminists reject me because I feel they trample on things I hold dear ...then those who embrace the casual sex lifestyle.. would just call me a Hypocrite, after all Porn is VERY Casual "sex is just sex".. it has to be!

Honesty has it's downside....I'll just take the rebuke.

I try to understand another's choices and allow them that freedom...it's their life... .I only offer another perspective..

There was a thread here in the social section asking if people want to hear the advice of others.. it was laughable.. I think I was the only one who said in my youth...I welcomed the advice & experience of others and weighed it... but the vast majority wanted people to mind their own business.. THEY WANTED TO LEARN FROM THEIR OWN MISTAKES.... you listed the horror stories of some of these workers, this is so abundantly available at the click of a mouse... yet people continue to jump in..

I will have you know our eldest christian son would agree with you ....Oh he practices what he preaches..or he sure tries to.. but even he struggles with porn from time to time, being a single man.. then hates himself for it... I am not one who is going to shame him...

And by the way, porn star Belle Knox started her porn career at 18. Before going into porn, she was featured in a Catholic Christian magazine and a Christian newsletter about her volunteer work.

I guess she didn't find the lords work as "empowering." Sheesh
!
the allure of Money ...what do they say.. it's the root of all evil...we sell ourselves ....she was just rationalizing her choices ...what many of us do I suppose... she made no bones about it... she did it for the ...the high price of a College Education is what she blames..

Just as I suppose I blame a high sex drive/ the effects of Testosterone on wanting to look upon some porn..... myself & H hate sports, we'd be bored out of own minds watching even a football game... but bring on some erotic entertainment.. we like it! I really don't care to apologize for this.. truth is.. we save every orgasm for each other, I think it's a beautiful thing...

We've made our own videos too.. really this is the best way to go !...as I am sure many a husband would welcome this.
 
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