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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

My daughter is very very very precious to me. After seeing 4 little penis's in a row when giving birth, I can not even express.. finally.... hearing ...
!! :yay::yay:

I count WHO my daughter marries oneday to be the single most important decision she will ever make in her entire life.....and how she handles her sexuality before she meets this man can not be under-estimated -in my opionion. It has the power & potential to destroy her dreams, or allow them to take flight to full fruition, with no regrets.

1. 1st, SEX will never be a dirty word in our household. I want my daughter to see playful displays of affection between me & her father, we do not hide kisses, hugs, even a little flirting, I want her to see a healthy happiness there. I also instill within her, even now - she can come to me with anything & everything, nothing will shock me, I understand human nature well, nor will I shame her for any subject. We are very open communicators in our family - It is a good foundation to be laid.

But 1st -what do I mean by SEX....I agree with this definition...."Having sex" means any consensual behavior between two individuals involving genital contact & bodily penetration. That means oral sex, anal sex, and vaginal sex are all "sex' " .... can read more here ..... The Definition of 'Sex'

2. I will teach my daughter .....Sex is beautiful thing ...but it has it's place, there is a time & a season for such beauty... it is meant to be shared between 2 people who LOVE each other. There is no greater pleasure God has given us on this earth, no emotional BONDING that has more meaning -as the giving & receiving in this way, that this act has the awesome potential to Create NEW LIFE..... that it should never be used casually, or carelessly, because of this very fact, It carries the greatest of responsibilities with it. It is the awesomest of the AWESOME. I will refer to it as "sacred" even.

3. I will teach my daughter not everyone looks at Sex as this Special. What she sees in the media, magazines, tv, music, hears in school, even sees friends experience - too often results in broken relationships where sex was ingaged in TOO QUICKLY, the "bad boys" being praised for their conquests, Girls giving themselves to these gamers in hopes "for love", women dressing to entice the hot guys -and for what ? Hearts ripped in 2, tears, loss of self esteem sometimes, pregnancy faced alone, Grandparents raising grandchildren, children growing up without fathers, a night of physical passion without connection? Rubbers can be worn but the brokenness that follows SCARS our entire society.

I will ask her how she feels about these things. I will ask her what SHE wants for her own life. I will tell her she has POWER, she has CHOICES....and to never be led by "the crowd". She is her own woman.

Also she MUST take responsibility for those choices. Personal Responsibility is HUGE in our family -I will not allow my TEENS to see themselves as "victims" - if they had a voice & a choice in the matter.

Sure we all make mistakes, we forge ahead living in the moment, none of us are perfect, but to KNOW the "games" others play, know the "RISKS" of each action before indulging & OWN your own "hand" in it- this is a must.

4. I will explain to my daughter, she WILL Have sexual urges, this is natural .... and to understand BOYS have those same urges -but raging 10 times MORE than she is feeling them- if that can even be imagined ! They are near blinded with LUST ...and this overflows out of thier mouths with flirtatious fury around the girls. To not be fooled, this has nothing ever to do with LOVE..... she needs to understand this completely, their minds have been near hi-jacked by Overloads of Testosterone. Some are scrambling to understand it themselves, their IS an immaturity there. Boys will also be compelled to look upon porn & oogle women, I don't care how "good" or "moral" they are, they will WANT to do this. My daughter will have a FINE education on the male sex drive.

A few comments from men themselves on the thread about their youth, I appreciate their honesty! ....
I would have done/said anything that would get me intyo bed with them, getting them to flash me, etc etc....
Puberty, hormones raging. I dont think I once thought about love during that time. Purely a want to put it in something. As I grow older the drive has remained as powerful as ever, but its fueled by more than just hormones.

5. I will explain to my daughter ...if a Boy truly has HER interests at heart (some are struggling with LUST & pangs of LOVE, their very own hearts).... if influenced by Genuine feelings of care & interest in MORE than some booty.... these boys will stick around, they will continue to woo her, "wait" for HER- every part of her, they will listen to her, they will take "the time" - (of course they will be fantasizing like mad in addition) but still they will try to BE that gentleman for their "lady".....take her out , make plans to enjoy things together, talks walks & talk, call her just to hear her voice, learn of her as a person, ask what she enjoys & make that happen. :)

These boys may itch to get in her pants, but she should never JUMP... if she is interested in them, TEST them with the ruler of TIME, allow them to openly reveal their "heart" in regards to her. This is wisdom.

I am of the belief.... Although ALL men LOVE & crave sex, they will "wait" & pursue the one girl that captures their heart & soul. Once they are "caught", they are ensnared. Love is the most amazing thing on this earth. The greatest love songs ever penned were written by MEN in love.

6. When she starts dating herself -being alone with a boy turning into a man, I will likely share how me & her father handled ourselves before we married. Where our boundaries were....was MORE than the Church would consider "moral" but it was LESS than what the majority, even within the church pew did themselves! So let the judgers judge. But for us... it kept us from burning with LUST, an "emotional connection" grew & we still had something "NEW" to bring to our Wedding night, what we deemed the most sacred to give to each other .

My daughter will have to decide for herself what her "personal boundaries" will be in this area.

Some women can enjoy Sex without an emotional connection... I personally can not understand this at all, I am greedy!! I would want BOTH, LUST is passionate & all Consuming -YES ! ....but I would want MORE from that man, I would tie myself to him, want to posses him , It would utterly DEVESTATE me if he did not feel the same as I, was cold the next day or ....gone.

I will talk openly to my daughter about this side of sex also, and ask how she would feel about such things. Explaining MANY men can separate this, one night stands are common. But I will always believe, overwhelmingly more women get HURT by these, loosing a part of themselves along the way.

7. I will speak openly about STD's/ veneral diseases with my daughter.....she MUST not be ignorant of the physical ramifications that can come upon her body, some for life. Many do not even know they have it -when it is transmitted. Untreated, some can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease- which causes Infertility- which can risk her future chances of being a mother. STD's That Cause Infertility

A list here:
Sexually Transmitted Diseases: Rhode Island Department of Health

8. I will teach my daughter there is a heavy EMOTIONAL side to sex.... Sex releases certain chemicals in our brains that change the way we think ...the hormones released work to bond us to our partner, it's like gluing two pieces of paper together. If you tried to tear those pages apart, the break wouldn't be a clean one. The same kind of thing happens when there's a breakup in a sexual relationship. These break ups can be as painful as mini-divorces. If this happens over & over & over, it has a way of de-personalizing our emotions.

Also, these sexual memories of our 1st, 2nd, 3rd boyfriends may linger in our psyche, show up in the bedroom later with our very husbands, comparisons creep in. We may wish he was as BIG as #1, or his oral skills was as arousing as #2. It is just something to consider. Of coarse men can do this also, comparing old girlfriends to thier wives. Then we have the whole Facebook debacle with old lovers befriending each other & the nightmare that brings.

9. Although many men will not care how many partners a girl had in her youth -they may even be ecstatic she is experienced & could show him a thing or 2! There are SOME men out there who will care, it has Great meaning to them -and it is not as much about "insecurities" much as it is about "the sacredness" they attach to "love making" -they feel this is the Greatest gift one can give their future bride/husbands, worthy of the waiting- hard as it may be to contain. My oldest son feels this way-strongly , I will not belittle that ..but being such a pure Virgin, I feel has it's RISKS also ...which brings me to ...

10. Sexual Repression is far too common - 1 hinderance I do not wish upon any of my children, although I want them to wait -make sure they are loved & cherished BEFORE they "give" their full selves to another.

I will teach my daughter ... If she is going to be in a relationship with a man, she needs to understand him, and have compassion on what HE is going through physically, if he is willing to wait for her - IF that is even her desire. And a man NEEDS to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that even though she may not be READY to engage in genital to genital contact with him, that she craves physical intimacy with him, , that she is deeply sexually attracted to him. I would hope their openness would blossom to Orgasm talk & how they feel about them, as I feel a man should KNOW these things about any woman he marries. This gives him some indication of her sex drive, as this could vary greatly from woman to woman.

This will be very unpopular advice for strict religious believers, but I feel it is terribly RISKY for a high drive man to marry a pure untouched virgin, he really has NO IDEA if she will even ENJOY sex - which "could" put him in a near prison once married, if she finds out she doesn't care for it after the vows. LOVE is NOT ENOUGH to keep that flame alive, Healthy sex is vital to all marriages. I've read too many personal stories, very heart breaking.

I knew of one couple who didn't even KISS until their wedding day. Do I think they are crazy...yeah pretty much... but I guess it worked out for THEM, he was not resentful, they waited, they have no each our own in our ...personal boundaries. So long as both is on the same page, you may have found your "match" made in Heaven.

I don't feel she needs to be so pure as to either of them burning with lust, while near crying to touch each other. I think we need to ENJOY each others body to some degree, even give each other pleasure. I think the problem most would have is..they wouldn't be able to stop- once they got going. I guess me & my husband are not the norm, we never went over our boundaries in this regard- though I sure remember wanting too! .

"A REAL man, the kind of man a woman wants to give her life to, is one who will respect her dignity, who will honor her like the valuable treasure she is. A REAL man will not attempt to rip her precious pearl from it's protective shell, or persuade her with charm to give away her treasure prematurely, but he will wait patiently until she willingly gives him the prize of her heart. A REAL man will cherish and care for that prize forever.”

Leslie Ludy

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
:) That's how I teach sex to my daughter. It's not just one talk, it's an ongoing conversation.

I am prepared for many things with my child. Maybe she won't marry. Maybe she won't want kids. Maybe she's a lesbian. Who knows? I don't care. She'll still be having sex and so we converse regularly about different things. Sometimes she initiates the conversation, sometimes I do. I'm always honest mom was never honest with me. I still don't know how old she was when she first had sex. o_O
Thank you for your thoughts. I LOVE talking to my kids, I seem to enjoy the TEEN years even more though, my daughter is not even 10 yet, so all of these FUN and more indepth discussions will not be happening any time soon, boys to her are "eeewwwwwww" right now. A little neighbor boy is in love with her & in the car one day the brothers were razzing her about it, I threw in a little joke & she whirled something at my head & got REALLY mad, so boys are scum right now, her brothers included.

But I assume someday, this will all take a sudden turn towards "awe" for the male species. But you are right, we never know, my only daughter could go the way of a Chastity Bono . What can you do, but love 'em anyway.

I was always very open with my Mother -she was always so EASY to talk too. I always asked her ALOT of questions, even in my teens. I am still learning now in the last few years -things about her private life. She never hesitated to share any of the things she did, even things that caused her MUCH heartache. I am thankful for the whole sorted story. It helped me make better decisions for my own life.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don’t however believe that you should stop with your daughter; I believe you should express a good share of this with your boys as well.
Oh RDJ, come on you really think I am not talking to my Boys?!! Those are my teenagers that I have so much FUN with!! Oh yeah, we have had some interesting conversations! Many times in the car, late at night over tea, caught in a hallway, around a bonfire, could be anywhere -they just come -unexpected.

The openness I have with my oldest is very precious to me. He is talking Psyche at College, his heart is for the YOUTH, he will say -so many from broken homes-kids hurting , but he sees So much potential there, it excites him & he wants to catch them NOW -BEFORE they mess up their lives.

My next son (9th gr) is getting more like him every day, we were riding bikes this summer side by side, he says to me.... "Ya know, you aren't so bad to talk too".... he was sharing about different girls, their texts to him, things they have talked about, raging puberty, his honesty to them, how they react. ( This was a funny conversation as these girls were all telling him he is NICER than the other boys, all those boys are bad, think dirty things, and him being Mr Honesty had to inform them he is not all that much better ! ... I just :rofl: -that he has his struggles too , one of the girls got mad at him, she was a little disappointed, his allowed his halo to be lowered before her, but she did get over it & kept talking to him)- I guess that was his way of giving that girl a little education, that yeah, BOYS will still be boys -in their minds anyway!

The dymanics of teens, always entertaining. He is very forthcoming about his "silver purity ring", what it means to him, it split & he wants a new one with special words on it , a christmas present I need to shop for. He tells me the crazy things that happen in school, how kids talk, the teachers he loves, what they say, things that bother him, he even asks me questions. I don't think this is the norm between teenage sons & their mothers .... It made me feel VERY GOOD that he said that to me -that sweet summer day on that bike trail. :)

Boys are best to get talking when you are "doing" something with them, engaged in an activity/sport. The son after him is more too himself, more introverted, but he knows he can come to me & his dad with anything also, he gets the benefits of hearing many of our open conversations with our oldest, we both enjoy the debate, they have sat around -being near amused by it all. Interjecting their thoughts in support of big brother or Mom.

I heartily enjoy giving them food for thought- all sides of an issue, even their dad jumps in- usually with some perfectly timed crack that has them near falling on the floor -but ultimately they make thier own descions. So far so good.

Dad is also good for letting them know ......if you choose this...... THIS MAY COME UPON YOU..... then he will go on to explan in ever colorful thought provoking detail of your slow but sure demise in misery... may end up living under a bridge somewhere eating out of the garbage, to the utter destruction of your body possibly being scraped off the pavement, or if you skull is still intact, a worm may crawl out of it. He gets a little carried away but it can be amusing, he gets his point across.

We seriously have a great time. I am accually not all that involved with my kids, it is not a Doting type of thing at all, or in all thier business... more of a "we just enjoy talking to each other at random times, we may all crash in the same area and just find ourselves in some HEAVY discussion- challenging each other ", then we get up & go about our day. Love those times, other than that, we near ignore each other, they do their thing, we do ours. They are so busy with their friends and activities.

I know when they leave the nest, I have no control over their lives, I am so very aware, now is the time to influence, shape, mold and US -be that example.

I often think I don't spend enough time with them- hence my recent "Cats in the Cradle" thread. Time goes much too fast.

But the knowing, they still enjoy talking to me, openly sharing parts of their life with me ... my sons........yeah ...priceless. :)

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I love the idea that sex is sacred, and that the emotional bonding aspect is very powerful, not to be taken lightly.
I just started this book I had on my shelf for almost a year now called "Sacred Pleasure"........ Sacred Pleasure: Sex, Myth, and the Politics of the Body--New Paths to Power and Love (9780062502834): Riane Eisler: Books

- it is accually very deep & hard to follow, SO MUCH detail, but it was talking about the ancient civilizations, how they treated Sex as "SACRED". It is someting we have gotten so far away from- for a # of reasons.

It said this in the book >>>> One of the most beautiful examples of this artistic tradition depicting "sex as sacred" comes to us from Mesopotamia. It is a terra cotta plaque sometimes identified as "Lovers Embracing on Bed," probably the Goddess Inanna and the God Dumuzi about to consummate their sacred union. It was fashioned about 4000 years ago.

The notion that civilization is inspired by the love between a Goddess and a human male is common to many ancient cultures. The Erotic theme is lavishly developed in the Sumerian love poetry that celebrates the theogamy (divine-human mating) of the Goddess Inanna and the shepherd Dumuzi. According to Thompson, civilization begins by making love, not war. (Lovers embracing, clay plaque, Mesopotamia, 2000 BCE)

I like this ...:smthumbup:....Love Without Limits - Articles - Why is Sex Sacred? - by Dr. Deborah Anapol

In the pre-Christian view, sex is sacred simply because it’s part of life. In the Christian view sex must be shown to be deserving of reverence. No problem! Here’s why it’s worthy!

1.First, Sacred Sexuality, implies an awareness that sex is the inception of life, of all that is. Without the sexual act, none of us would exist — at least not as incarnate bodies. Sacred Sexuality acknowledges that our life force and our sexual energy originate from the same source. It’s an expression of awe and wonder that transcends any particular culture.

2. Sex is sacred because of its role in bonding. Mutually satisfying sexual exchanges naturally intensify bonding, but sex can take place without bonding if we’re careful to keep our hearts closed. Sex opens the heart only if we bring the energy up. The Tantric attitudes of slowing down, awakening all of the senses, tuning in to subtle energy, letting go of judgment and blame, expressing gratitude for the gift of life, and savoring the present moment are wonderfully supportive tools for intimate relating.

To bond with someone is to form an enduring connection -- to feel a strong sense of mutual caring, intimacy, and appreciation. Bonding satisfies our need to belong and can occur in the absence of sex whenever a powerful shared experience creates a feeling of kinship. Not only is bonding critical to survival for many species, it supports health and happiness. People live longer and have fewer problems when they have a family-social-community context. Sex helps bring people together and keep them together. What else could motivate us to overcome the difficulties we encounter in intimate relating? Love making is more fun and more readily available than natural disasters, war, and other life threatening situations.

Erotic energy works its magic far beyond the plant and animal level as well. Look at gravity! Gravity is the name we give to the force of mutual attraction that holds the cosmos together, but spiritual teachers throughout the ages have pointed out that magnetic pull is just another name for erotic love.

3. Sex is sacred because of its role in accessing peak experiences of love, oneness, and healing. Humans have an innate need for peak experiences of bliss, merging, and ecstasy. We have a deep longing for the (re) union of sex and spirit, for union with the Divine. When we access expanded states of consciousness through sex we validate our intuitive sense that sex can be worship and that worship can be erotic. Tantra and other paths of Erotic Spirituality teach us to embrace and honor the body as a temple of Spirit, rather than trying to deny our natural sexual impulses.

So when we bless, purify, or honor the body as part of a sexual encounter, when we bond more deeply as a result of lovemaking, or when sexual union catapults us into higher consciousness, we make sex sacred.

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Love your thread SA...
I printed your post. I want my wife to read this. We have a little one. After all, I did wait for her until she was ready.
You are a RARE Gem of a man, as is my dear husband.

I took the time to read some of your posts, I can see you are "in that prison" I mentioned in #10 ... and have been for a long long time - a wife you "waited" for...who was NEVER into sex.

These stories have brought tears to my eyes.:( I've read too many. I feel bad for many men. YOU deserve so much more.

We all worry ......who is our daughter going to marry, will HE be "good enough" -get the shot gun out, check him up & down .......

I often find myself thinking.....who will my honorable son marry..... "WILL SHE LOVE SEX ENOUGH?" ....What he views as Virtuous could be the near death of him - if she is Repressed and very low drive..... with that combination, you might as well put a stake through your heart -as a husband.

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I would welcome ideas on how to alert a daughter to infidelity since it is all too rife. In particular men who will select a girl and sex wise, wait for her for a long time, treating her right - but all that time, unbeknown to the girl, he is sleeping with other women. I,m saying she is the one he wants and loves, and he IS willing to wait to have sex with her , marry her and everything. How do we strike a balance between our children being too naive or too trusting and being overly suspicious and paranoid?
That is an interesting question, and I am sure this happens too! If a man was doing this, if he has any Conscience at all, I would think the GUILT would start eating at him after a time. In my opionion, if he didn't have that conscience, the truth may manifest in other ways- such as ....HE would be lacking in his "vulnerability" with his girlfriend, there would be some blockage to his personality, something would be amiss, a privacy she could not penetrate.

What makes our children too trusting of others? The first thing that comes to mind is .... sheilding them, trying to protect their innocence TOO MUCH -from what lurks outside our safe protective doors. It doesn't mean they have to EXPERIENCE the trauma ......but BE educated, aware that not everything IS as it appears, not everyone IS as they appear either, the big bad wolf sometimes comes in sheeps clothing... as a Gentleman, harboring a well hidden dark side.

I am not the type of parent to SHEILD my kids from very much -to spare them, because I DO NOT want them to be too trusting, or ignorant of human nature, even in it's darkest forms. I want them to be fully aware of the temptations we ALL face, to know these things can befall others, even ourselves , to LEARN / discern what to look for in other people, in their friends, in their potential lovers....

They have the security to learn all of this from within our very homes, I would think it even a great dis-service to not talk openly about such things.....and of coarse that FEROCIOUS male sex drive, heavens, we can't leave that out!

If a girl is withholding herself, if she is smart & intuned to his sexual LOVE and LUST, she is going to be talking to him about how he is handling this part of himself while "waiting" for her, read some of his body language, does it add up? But then again, he might mention porn, she'll throw her hands up, call him a pervert, break off the engagement. Yeah, a double edged sword there. Communication breakdown 101.

I would have my daughter look very carefully to a # of things ...... his reputation , what do others say about him?? his history with girls, what is he into, what fullfills his time, his work ethic, the type of friends he hangs with, this ALL speaks to his "character". It simply has too.

Appearing to be the Perfect --but wayward boyfriend with a double life.... surely something gives in such a relationship, some clues. I know with me & my bf, when dating we was seriously together so terribly much, he would not have even had time for another. But that is not always the case of coarse..... I still think it comes down to that intimacy, a free flowing openness, with nothing held back- emotionally, that vulnerability 2 people in love share, feeling their whole heart.

If a man is TRULY waiting for a woman he loves, if he can't show that, something is wrong -because a man with such a character as that -should be able, he is a DEEP loving man. He is not shallow, nor cold. My personal opinion on this anyway!

I think so long as a young girl / woman is rational with no mental issues going on, she won't be overly suspicious & paranoid --unless she has already been hurt & lied too by another man she was deeply in love with who scarred her heart & she is struggling to wipe that slate clean with the new man before her.

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I do try to talk to my D about sex and relationships but she gets super embarrased and NEVER participates in the "discussion" which feels very awkward and then I get embarrassed because I'm making her embarrassed! I know i should press on regardless as she will be taking stuff in even if she doesen't respond but I do find this difficult. Also I am realising that things need to be said more than once, but again it's tricky to revisit past topics when she is so reluctant to participate in the "discussion". i have to avoid a tendency to think right, I've told her about X so that's done.

My own mother didn't really talk to me about sex apart from saying to make sure I didn't end up pregnant - fullstop (both my older sisters had unplanned pregnancies in their teens!). Thankfully I didn't but unfortunately I have had issues with men presenting one way whilst keeping their real self totally hidden. I have been too trusting yet I thought I was savvy which is why I don't feel confident in getting the balance (too naive v. too suspicious) right with her.
What you describe is likely very common, not all teens want to talk to thier moms, it can be embarrassing -but I bet they are talking to their friends , so they can do it !

This is very unfortunate, I guess this comes back to that .. ..."ongoing " conversation thing & being approachable at a very young age, plus I think even the temperment of the child may play a role, some kids are just MORE PRIVATE, it will be like pulling teeth, a boundary they will never be comfortable with.

When I hear some ask...when it is time for the "Birds & the Bees" talk, that in itself sounds "awkward" to me, to dump all that on in one sitting & feel the "deed" has been done, you are trying to avoid that , this is good. My little girl is 8, I am forever asking her questions, she smiles & giggles saying "I don't know" many times ....and in my own goofy way, I won't accept that -kinda making fun & she starts laughing, but I am coaxing her to SPEAK HER MIND with me, I want her to do that -and boldly -if she does it with me, she is going to do it outside of our family too. It is a part of being "assertive", which I want her to be. She is not going to get away from my asking her things. She seems to enjoy my being interested in her & what she has to say..... I hope that will remain as she grows into her teens, I guess time will tell, this is MY way of grooming now.

I would ask Advocado ....have you ever sat down and opened up about your own past with the boys...even the more unpleasant things, the boys hiding who they were -that you mention here.... sharing your own experiences with your daughter could be a way of getting her to feel the freedom to share herself , maybe even ask YOU a question she may be curious about, a little relating there possibly.... As it is opening youself up 1st , still could be a bit embarrassing.....but just NOTICE some of the replies on here where women are saying thier Mom's didn't tell them anything about themselves ...and it seems they wish they had !

I think many parents want to exclude the hurt of thier own Teen years , or how they messed up, or missed it , trying to spare their children from these details of thier own learning, not wanting them to look down on us. Yeah, it humbles us to some degree, but still , the lesson could be the most valuable of all. I guess I am one who feels the openness, even the things we got wrong -can be even more helpful than burying them. I am one who learned MORE from the mistakes of my Mother in how she delt with men than anything she ever taught me through words. It was her experiences -that accually "spoke" to me, to not go down a similar path.

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I would like to tell her that sex is a special kind of honesty and as such it deserves respect and honesty in all its occurrences. We should never pretend someone means something to us in order to get sex. We need to be honest about our past experiences with our husband. If you wouldn't want to tell your husband your number, than don't create that number.
I like this, I agree with you wholeheartily. There have been a # of threads on this forum where this comes out AFTER the vows, or one "omitted"- or outright lied to keep the other, and the mistrust that results, some feel bitterly betrayed, when it comes to light down the road. I recall this thread shorty after I started posting here .....

These things just shouldn't be. We need to be wholly transparent with someone we are about to marry -for life. If we can't share where we came from (after all these things help SHAPE who we are)... I wouldn't even consider being with someone who couldn't give me "that". This level of transparency would mean MORE to me than anything they have done, the willingness to not hide themselves, and allow me in.

After all, the majority of us WILL have some experiences, even I did a few things with a neighbor boy -before I met my husband, just a little experimentation, it wasn't sex but I also can't say I regret it either.

After reading the threads from posters who have spouses that have suffered past sexual abuse, I would like to bring that up as a topic. It seems common that parents don't always know about these instances. We have had talks about these situations, but I never realized how much pain they can cause a spouse who doesn't know about them.
Yes, this is something I left out !! The possibility of sexual abuse should ALWAYS be talked to our children! Say No! Protecting Children Against Sexual Abuse

I have a dear friend who learned the hard way, I remember her telling me yrs ago- about a BIL who had something happen in his past -with a young girl - but she was convinced he was cured, a redeemed man, married to her sister for yrs & yrs, they have a grown son, near perfect marriage, never a hint of ANYTHING. She would allow , on occasion, her girls & littlest son spend the night over their house, she trusted her sister TO KNOW he was "safe". Well, years passed, and if it wasn't for that little brother saying something to mom that didn't sound quite right (I forget what) she might have never started questioning her girls about those overnight stays.......what she learned- changed their lives forever .... he was TOUCHING HER DAUGHTERS & threatening & manipulating them to keep their mouths shut.

Her husband near wanted to kill him... her sister divorced him, he ended up in Jail, & on the National sex offender list- and her girls immediately into Therapy.

Her youngest started drawing pictures to show how she FELT during that time, pictures with a LOCK on her lips, sadness on her face, it was a part of her own personal therapy. My friend ended up publishing a small readable book with a collection of her drawnings to speak to young kids about sexual abuse. Taken from her book is states ...
There is less of a chance of your child being abused by a stranger than a family member, friend, or babysitter. It has been shown, for example, that in 90% of child-rape cases -the child already knows the abuser. She gives a warning to be cautious of individuals who would rather have the attention of children than adults, or who single them out with gifts, affection & fun activities. An abuser will often "groom" victims & their families for an extended period of time with nonsexual physical contact. Thus, the abuser might take months or even years before they begin to assult their victim. You need to trust your parental instincts to identify an unsafe situation for your child.
Child Sexual Abuse | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry

Child Abuse Research and Statistics

What to teach our kids as little as 18 months old ....

What Can Parents Do to Prevent Sexual Abuse?

Tell someone in authority if you suspect that your child or some else's child is being abused. No man stands as tall as he who bends to help a child. ~Robert Wagner

Prevention measures to safeguard your children should begin early, since a number of child abuse cases involve preschoolers. The following guidelines offer age-appropriate topics to discuss with your children:

Stay alert to sexual abuse and teach your children what it is. Tell them they can and should say NO! or STOP! to adults who threaten them sexually. Make sure your children know that it's OK to tell you about any attempt to molest them - no matter who the offender is.

18 months - Teach your child the proper (accurate) names for body parts. Diapering, potty time, and bathing are good times for this to occur naturally. Know with whom your child is spending time. Be careful about letting your child spend time in out-of-the-way places with other adults or older children. Plan to visit your child's caregiver without notice. Teach your child about the privacy of body parts, from the time they're toddlers, to respect their own and others' privacy (but maintain constant vigilance to ensure their safety).

Teach them to feel good about themselves, their bodies, and their future - to have self-confidence, self-respect, and self-worth. Teach them to express their feelings in words from early preschool age, and LISTEN to what they say. Don't stop just because they grown into teens.

3-5 years - Teach your child about private parts of the body and how to say no to sexual advances. Talk to your child about sexual abuse. Teach them specifically (children don't generalize; they are literal-minded) that no one may touch their "bathing suit" areas unless you are present or have given permission for a specific situation such as a doctor's visit, and that they are not to look at or touch anyone else's unclothed bodies without your permission.

Teach them to say "NO!" forcefully and loudly if someone tries to get them to do something that you have taught them is wrong or that they believe is wrong, and to get help if the person persists. Give straight forward answers about sex.

Teach them that the human body is beautiful and has inherent dignity. Children's books for this purpose or artistic paintings and sculpture can help convey this so that kids don't have to look at "dirty" pictures or experiment with playmates to satisfy their natural curiosity. Teach them that they can ALWAYS come to you if they feel uncomfortable in any situation and that you will help them. Remind them especially when they are away from home. Listen when your child tries to tell you something, especially when it seems hard for her to talk about it.

5-8 years - Discuss safety away from home and the difference between good touch and bad touch. Encourage your child to talk about scary experiences. Give your child enough of your time so that the child will not seek attention from other adults.

8-12 years
- Stress personal safety. Start to discuss rules of sexual conduct that are accepted by the family.

13-18 years - Stress personal safety. Discuss rape, date rape, sexually transmitted diseases, & unintended pregnancy.

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
You mentioned talking about past experiences. This is something I am going to think about with an open mind. I have always thought I shouldn't. I didn't want it to be an excuse for her to do something she would regret. But mostly, I don't want her to judge me. I think this is the biggest reason mothers don't talk about this part of their life with their daughters.
This is how I think about this stuff... Not everyone is going to agree with me, these are just MY opinions. I feel when talking to hormonally charged teens, when they themselves might be on the verge of SEX with a real live boyfriend ..... it IS a way to be "relatable'..... to show the daughter....."LOOK, MOM was just like me- she struggled with the same STUFF as I am" may just PERK up her ears-such honesty , even a little humbling... and bring YOU down to her level to some degree. Too many parents come off as narrow minded conservative ogers who you would have thought lived 100 yrs ago -while hiding how wild they really were. Why we think our kids are that clueless is almost silly to me.

It is not that a parent has to share everything , or coarse not!! But if you have learned any 'valuable" lessons from the past-that could help her, spare her, yeah, even got caught up into temptation that overwhelmed - then regretted - this doesn't diminish who you are as a wife or Mother, it just shows you experienced something, it may have hurt you ...your honest intent spare HER the same heartache.

Maybe you have nothing you regret!

I REALLY like this article-on this particular topic - this is precisely how I THINK on these things -to the letter...but I am not a Mormon (though I have good friends who are), I was hoping to find a non-religious article instead.

How forthright should parents be about their past transgressions with their children?


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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I do have a daughter. She is too young for sex education now, so I haven't practiced what I'm preaching yet. But, I plan to tell her that sex outside of marriage is sinful. I will always use the qualifying phrase "outside of marriage" when discussing sex. Inside marriage, I think sex is wonderful. And I want my daughter to be clear on the difference.
What do you define as SEX PHTlump? That word can encompass many things and many interpretations , depending on who you ask ... Bill Clinton comes to mind.

What is going too the eyes of a Christian father.. at what point does the honorable become the sinful in your beliefs.

Our Pastor did not even allow his sons to be alone with their girlfriends , they were only allowed in groups... for years - and they both married very young. Obvously he didn't trust them to restrain at all. Do you also plan to put such restraints on your daughters to ensure the lust doesn't lead a little further than what you feel is acceptable. Is Touching each other allowed or is that considered SEX to you?

Or is sex = intercourse, what fuses 2 bodies as one.

I don't think one can restrain feeling LUST, it is simply human....but we can draw our lines in the sand, restrain what we allow our bodies to do with it.

I am a little disappointed.. I was hoping for more details from you. :(

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Re: young girls increasingly becoming seuxally aggressive with boys...

***SimplyAmorous ****
You need to visit the Family Life Today site, read more about the young aggressive women and talk with your sons about this....
They may not be able to resist...
Not sure if I could've @12-16.....
Remember my sons are the Christians, not me. One thing they all seemed to get from me is this.. they are stubborn... but I think this is good, they will argue with me & tell me how it is.

No woman is going to take them down...not if they don't want to be. Our 1st 2 is very much like their dad... Love is so very very important, my sons are very mature, not the typical wreckless behavior male.

My 15 yr old thinks he found the love of his life already. I must admit , they are quite amazing together, even got the same Love languages in the same order....they talk about it all... both Hopeless Romantics. His head does not turn on another girl.

I am very pleased with their values accually. To think my sons are more exemplary than myself in thier youth (at least my oldest is).... isn't that a little twisted !

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Re: young girls increasingly becoming seuxally aggressive with boys...

However, even Christian men can be tempted.
A girl laying next to a boy on a couch or in the back seat of a car, her being aggressive with her hands, etc., that could change things and many a guy may not resist.
Yes, I am so aware......and that is why I tell them.....if you find yourself in that lustful pickle of a moment...there are other doesn't have to BE .... whip it out & stick it in. That likely would not go so smoothly anyway!

Something I have out of own experiences I am ....the parents who DID slip up in thier youth & engaged in premarital sex has more restraints on their kids - My Pastor went overboard in my opinion. My one GF had 2 kids out of wedlock, she doesn't trust her daughter at really annoys her daughter to no end , telling me she can't even talk to her Mom, but she talks to me.

Since me & mine didn't go past our agreed upon boundaries, it is surely possible that I am a bit "overly" trusting that ...."hey, they are our kids, they likely won't either".

All we can do is give them a healthy teaching, warn them, if they show trustworthy behavior to me, I am going to trust them... We are very open communicatively about these things.... we can't put them on a leash...or watch their every moment alone.

I am not really worried about my boys, even the girls Dad loves my son, the other day... I was picking him up, her dad was right there...he asked him if he could kiss her goodbye -he answered ..."go ahead". I just thought "oh my" But really, he is a fine young man, very respectable, I can't see him doing anything that would hurt her or his reputatioin with her family. But yeah, they are only 15 !

Yeah... but you were a virgin bride and handled yourself sexually responsible, as you posted, so don't think down of yourself....

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Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
This was a great post. I have a little daughter and this mirrors what i think about it with one small excpetion that has to do with proportions on this point 9. Because i'm a man who talks to his male friends and knows what's what i would make the following changes if i may......

I'm pretty sure the majority of men care a whole lot about their partner's past attitude towards sex. Don't mistake what men say when in the presence of women (the politically correct version) with what they actually think about this. Ask any large group of men about what the profile of a long term relationship partner they would like and i'll assure you that the majority will not put "a large number of sexual experiences" as a requisite.
Thank you So much for sharing your amendment of these 2 words Costa200 (I eat your posts up by the way, love them!)....Thundarr's too.

This is funny....your amendment is pretty much what I had planned all along to teach her.....but I found myself taking a step back, playing the fence, a little "Political correctness" as to not offend.

Appreciate your taking the time to read my thread... It is so good to get the men's feedback themselves.... I won't be arguing this one. :)

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
As I was reading this post:

I thought of this thread. Do you want to know how important it is to teach your daughters to understand their own sexuality and how to be comfortable with it? Then read this thread and in particular this post.

That's one of the examples of what many call the reverse Madonna-wh0re complex. Many woman can't let her husband know her true sexuality because nice wives aren't supposed to be that way. Many women can't do that with their husband, but will go do it with some stranger instead.

I hope this woman is able to work it out with her husband. But even they do reconcile, her and her husband are drastically, negatively affected by this.

I don't want my daughters to live that same fate.
I just read some of the posts on that page ....but wow -sooooo LONG I am not in tune to her whole story..

Personally I can't imagine doing something with a stranger over your own husband -that would be 50 times more WEIRD.

When I was Mrs Inhibited, it wasn't something sheilded towards him but let loose somewhere else... Never read up on that "complex". I think when your spouse is your best friend in this world, anything we are dealing with & feel strongly within, even torn within...we should be able to bring to him 1st, no matter what it is.

I think all young women should gather some books on sexuality....very healthy. And every young Bride should get some books on Sexual Intimacy in marriage.... When I go to Bridal showers today....she will be opening some HOT Lingerie with all the ladies " ooooh ahhhhhhing, he's gonna have some fun with that !" type comments .....with this book >>> specifically geared towards the "nice wives" ....

Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage : Books

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
This is why we have not watched TV in 7 years and we never let our kids watch any PG-13 or R movie.
Wow, your kids don't get to enjoy TV at all ~~ I take it your conversion was 7 yrs ago then.

We have an acquaintance who watches all the slasher and horror films ever made...I mean EVERY ONE OF THEM! And she has allowed her child from birth to watch these with her (he is about 8 years old now). The kid's favorite movie is sad is that. I am sure that kid will turn out just fine (maybe another Ted Bundy in the making).
Well, my mother wasn't the brightest bulb... she took me to see the "Exorcist" when I was 9 !! YIKES .... but I think I turned out OK :)... May I say... I was never violent, never been in a fight- except I did haul off & hit a gf over a religious argument in my teens (Religion causes so much trouble!)... I am kind to animals -except I do yell at my dog to shut up....& I've never succumbed to Demon possession either. :)

You would not care for our Parenting style ForeverMemorable (no I wouldn't take them to see a slasher or the Exorcist).... BUT...days ago we took 2 of our kids & a neighbor girl on a Haunted Hayride & Haunted House... We had FUN !!! :D Daughter did get a little scared but we laughed about it afterwards. I also take them trick or treating & have encouraged our Worship Leader son to watch Prayers for Bobby / ... Gay Teenage Suicide ... you see - he is against Homosexuality...being a christian.... but I want him to take into account ALL sides of an issue.. that is how we parent...

He has Thanked me that I push him to reason, telling me this is one of the greatest Gifts I've ever given him as a Mother...I challenge his mind.... then he added I prepare him for Atheists...I guess that is a funny compliment - but I appreciated it none the less.

Last week, I spoke with my 10 year old son about what pornography is...that it is when ladies get naked and pictures are taken of them for money. But I did not go into detail about the sexual gratification people get from it as a result. I explained to my son that pornography is bad and against God. God does not want us to take delight in someone who is naked, with whom we are not married to. My son actually understood that much.
Did you get some sexual gratification when you was a teen ForeverMemorable? Will you also share this with your son when he enters puberty -to let him know what a temptation this is - HOW VERY NORMAL IT IS - why such books as this are written >> Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time

..... or will he be left feeling "shamed" for wanting to GO THERE....with Testosterone cursing through his veins? Even if he never looks upon a centerfold ....curvy naked images will be dancing in his head.

This article written by a Pastor in regards to Masterbation actually suggests thinking of scripture...during a release...... I found this highly comical - forgive me.... I'd seriously be AMAZED if any BOY does this...And if they DO manage somehow - thinking about Jesus swinging a hammer or entering the church (see below )....if this becomes a HABIT years before they marry...Lets get REAL here...this husband's gonna have some issues in the bedroom !!! Mr Creative he will not be! Likely he will even be ashamed to Flirt with his wife... no room for a little erotic "dirtiness" ... Not sure your stance or if you've given thought to just HOW such stringent teachings attempt to control every thought...

Teens and Masturbation

So what can be thought about during masturbation? That brings us to our final "boundary" Scripture, found in Col 3:17: "Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." And a companion Scripture is found in Col 3:1-2: "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."

It is clear from Scripture that our thought life is to be one of purity & joy & one that is characterized by its focus on God. This is no pie-in-the-sky theology. Either the Bible is eminently practical in how its principles can be lived out or it is not. It is possible to do everything with a spirit & attitude of thanksgiving to God, regardless of the task at hand.
A person can focus their heart on Jesus swinging a hammer at a construction site just as much as they can when entering the sanctuary of a church. There should be no difference between sacred and secular thought. Each thought should be given over to the control of Christ (2 Cor 10:5), and should be offered to God in a spirit of gratitude & joy. The only exception to this would be when the thought life has strayed out of its proper boundaries and has embraced sinful thoughts, such as the viewing of pornography or lusting after another person.

So, given the boundaries, is it possible to masturbate without straying into sinful thoughts? The answer is yes, for God, in designing the human body, has given it the ability to respond to physical stimuli without the necessity of embracing sinful thought patterns. And it is all right to enjoy the pleasurable feelings which accompany the activity. For example, when someone eats their favorite food, they are enjoying the pleasure of the feel & the taste of the food. Is it sinful to enjoy eating a chocolate bar? No. It only becomes a sin if the activity & the pleasure of eating become something which crowds out God, becoming an end to itself rather than being seen as a blessing from a loving God.

At that point, any activity, whether eating, playing golf, watching a sunset, or masturbating, has been abused and the person has fallen into the sin of idolatry. Therefore, when a person masturbates, their body will respond to the pleasurable physical stimulation that it is being given--especially teenage boys, whose testosterone & other hormone levels are at an all-time high & whose physical need for sexual release is very great (in fact, they are quite capable of achieving orgasm without ever once thinking of having sex with the latest monthly centerfold!). And if the thought life is kept under control, the act becomes an experience of blessing from the Lord, rather than a shameful one. The sin does not come in enjoying the experience, but rather in abusing a gift that a loving & gracious God has given to His children.
With all that fear of sinning going on & displeasing GOD ... that'd suck any JOY right out of the act itself.

I agree with the author of this book ... Carmen Berry says.... " I was taught 2 contradictory things about sex. First, it is dirty, Second, I should save it for the one I love. No clearer statement could be made about the dichotomy presented to todays' Christians".
The Unauthorized Guide to Sex and Church:

Being too stringent on LUST can warp a mind also = needing Therapy for some .... I tried to help this poster....she reached out to me feeling I would understand her trauma over stuffing her sexuality- FOR YEARS .... Never forgot one of her posts - please take a moment >>>> 1st post on THIS page

I have a little story of how WE dealt with our son looking at Porn.. a classic.... but we are very pleased with the outcome.....though some Christians may cringe.... but ya know... our son felt comfortable talking with me, his mother! I got him laughing, and he THANKED me for NOT shaming him , even asking to put a blocker on his computer - because he didn't want to do that.... Post #14 HERE

"But you are still shielding your kids and side stepping the important aspect" you might say. Yes, you are right. I don't think the actual actions need to be discussed with my 6 and 10 year old kids just yet.
Yes , they are too young right now ....but when they hit puberty....their friends will be talking - friends who DO watch Tv, who listen to current music... Or do you Home school so this is not a threat?

And I am not shy from talking with them about the subject. Slowly but surely is how I look at it. Little by little. There is no rush, I believe. Our kids don't know who Hannah Montana is (although they ran into her at Target once), or Justin Bieber, or any other child singers out there. Our kids don't watch TV or go to the movies.
sounding more like Home schooling .... Are you proud your children have no idea who these current stars are ? Have you considered them being THIS out of touch with others outside of your beliefs - may lead to their being more Judgemental to those who they can not understand ...even harshly judgemental ? They will one day grow up , set foot outside your doors and mingle amongst non-believers, current will they be equipped to handle this ??

Oh, it helps if parents practice what they preach...otherwise, what you say will be in vain!
I do agree with you here. :smthumbup: A Mentor & inspirer ...a Hypocrite one does not make.

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
I like the History Channel & National Geographic too.

ForeverMemorable said: I agree, that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible and is against God. I don't need to see both sides...either I believe God at His Word or I reject Him. I am sorry, but I do not believe in a Christianity that only selects the passages out that you want to embrace and throw away what you don't agree with.

Do you realize how many WAYS scripture can be interpreted : How does one KNOW which is correct ? You realize everyone feels they have the corner of truth...

Literal: The Fundamentalist view

Historical Docoment

Midrash: Jewish Rabbinical approach to interpretation sought to understand the literal, and then expand the teachings to contemporary issues. "light to heavy"

Pesher: Exegetical method that suggests the prophetic writings contain hidden eschatological significance, or divine mystery. Jesus used this method on several occasions. (Lk 4:16)

Allegorical: Assumes the text has a meaning other than what the literal wording says---- a parable is a short allegory with a Moral meaning. Allogories are often used in Literature.

Typological: seeks to discover a correspondence between people and events of the past and of the present or future. Matt. 12:40 - Jesus parallels the experience of Jonah with his own death. Moses was a type of Christ, who brought the people out of bondage, and was rejected by his own. Isaac when he was offered up by Abraham.

Christological: Firstly, Jesus, and then the writers of the New testament had a decidedly Christocentric approach to Bible interpretation. Old testament passages were viewed in light of the new knowledge they now had about the person and work of the Messiah.

Functional: Fitting scripture into current day context, disregarding the historical context

And speaking of Homosexuality - I have no personal close friends who are...I have no motive or beef defending ...none....but yeah...I do have issues when others harshly condemn -just using scripture, most especially if such people are not hurting anyone....I do not find Godliness in this.

I believe in Justice , I believe even in punishment for bad behavior, consequences, all for responsibilty... I love Proverbs, I enjoy Ecclesiastes... but how do you know some are not BORN this way... without walking in their shoes, I surely don't feel anyone would choose this lifestyle .... IF God allowed them to be BORN this way, but they can not express themselves, well what torment that would be - can you imagine not being able to express yourself sexually ??

Why does God allow children to be born "Intersexed" (Physically neither male nor female OR both & Doctor plays God & corrects) Intersex - Wikipedia, ....why are Children born retarted, simese twins & many odd things that shouldn't be (through no fault of the parents), so if the case can be made that children are born with mental problems, Reason allows me to believe they can be screwed up in the sexual sense also. (back in Bible days, we'd call them Possessed), we have learned something , haven't we?

I know nothing about what some claim about DNA strands, etc. So I am not convinced 100% one way or the other, so I lean towards alot of grace towards these people.

But I do QUESTION the original words & translations in the Sodom & Gomorrah story pointing exclusively to "Homosexuality", it definetely was other sins as well -

In Ezekiel 16:49-50, it says ....."Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit."

It was also .... 1) Pride 2) Gluttony 3) Lazyness & 4) Not caring for the Poor .

The New Testament also speaks of "the sins" of Sodom and Gomarrah in Matthew 10:12-15; Mark 6:10-11 & Luke 10:10-12.

And this is one of the reasons why individuals such as yourself and others hate us Christians
Please believe me when I say this... . I do not hate Christians...the majority of our friends R christians, some even Home school ! Our oldest wants to be a Youth Pastor...I even thank so many wonderful people for being in his life & contributing to who he has become, it surely is not all from my hand . Although without our influence ...if left completely to the church, I would fear he may become too much of a "Fundamentalist".

So in this way...we are worlds apart . Forgive me for coming off condescending... this is not what Jesus would want , in this way my attitude is wrong.. I am surely not perfect - I admit I enjoy a little debate and can get carried away... It is better to be humble...just ask questions .... Finding common ground is more what I am about vs. purposely ticking people off.

I don't see testosterone as a curse, but what God has designed.
Absolutely God did give man testosterone... I so agree with you ! :smthumbup: But it does affect the mind, there is scientific proof on these things. To try to work against nature & stuff how Test influences the mind telling yourself such thoughts are all evil & sinful -so no touching - will only hurt a young mind. Yes, self restraint - don't jump women, even trying not to set your eyes on porn - I'll give you that, but boys and fantasizing.... I say God's design as well - If you teach masterbation as a SIN, you automatically set your children up for serious sexual repression/ guilt & shame towards sex. Unless they want to be a monk... I would not count this as wise.

I really do not have an answer about whether masturbation is right or wrong. I would tend to see it as wrong, because lust is usually a factor involved and lust is a sin mentioned in the Bible. Which has begged the question among Christians, "Can you masturbate and not lust?" I really do not care to discuss this topic, because I am not entirely sure about it.
I ADORE this topic, so if you come back here, indulge me... here are the various VIEWS on lust... various interpretations of the Bible explained ....but like everything else... how does ANYONE know which is correct?? (my point when I discuss religion)

Seriously these are great links and they will have YOUR viewpoint in them as well - as it explores all views, so one can compare..

Did Jesus forbid masturbation in the Gospel of Matthew?

Handling feelings of lust >> Jesus' Attitudes Towards Sex

I know exactly what you mean and how you are saying it. Do you think us Christians are like the typical Ned Flanders on the Simpsons...WRONG!
I have never watched the Simpsons.

I could careless about the current stars, whether they be TV, movies, or singers. For the most part, I think they are terrible role models who are disrespectful to parents, stuck up, arrogant, sexual, profane, etc. I am glad my kids don't have role models like these...what a joke.
I agree with you, neither do I buy People's magazines, or buy into the hype...I find Hollywood's morals the greatest example of how Riches, hot attraction & Success can never buy love & happiness in this life... 90% of these people do not represent Character for the most part. Real people are much more interesting to me.

I think you also have your plethora of preconceived notions of how homeschoolers will turn out. I guarantee you this, those will just remain preconceived, without any merit.
Me & my Son feel the same on this issue... if Christians truly care about this world & desise to win souls..aren't we to put ourselves out there & BE examples before men....that light -not putting it under a bushel (Matt 5:15)... to bring about change, influence those around us...HOW is this accomplished when we take the GOOD kids raised by decent parents out of the school system ??

Our 1st son and 2nd son was in the Christian Bible club in their High school (the only boys who went) .... standing at the Flag pole every year praying with their youth Leader..I never told them to do this, they wanted to... These are the lights... they get filled in church, encouraged by their brothers & sisters, then set out in the world to stand strong and be that example.

Does this make any sense. I do not want to offend you.. honestly. :)

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
ForeverMemorable... I realize you are trying to help, and believe me ....I could go rounds with you - I have a warped sense of enjoyment debating religion... But we both know it is fruitless....You are a Fundamental believer who feels I am LOST, blinded, in grave sin & you feel the majority of us are in this life -outside of your specific beliefs.

I simply do not agree with you. Our Foundations are different ~ Yours is built on Faith /100% trust in scripture ... mine is built on Reason & how one treats their fellow Man- aiming for those fruits of the spirit.

Your experience is NOT my experience. IF this works for you, .. by golly.... live this way..... I hope your children will not rebel.

I've seen 1st hand ...parents in my own church....their kids hiding/lying because they can't talk to their girl poured her
out to who.... ME & my son....she shared how she cut herself because her parents are so strict, she wasn't allowed to do anything... she left that house before she even graduated, a family divided. Amazingly she is still a believer but will she be that strict. NO.

Our family throws Large Bonfires for youth groups in the summer, I get to talk amongst them, I hear many of their trials/ tribulations/ joys...their families trust us with their kids....we're not bad people.

I Love & treasure my life, everything that has been given to this not from HIS hand? He knows my
... my inner motivations... I do my darnest to live by my conscience - in how I treat others ....sure I mess up....but I aim to make it right - where does this come from?

He knows the gratitude I feel ~ the tears of Thankfulness expressed. My husband, our children....Oh the answered prayers...down to the very House we live in -so against the odds when he made peanuts - to the position he got hired- so we could afford to raise our growing family. I believe God is in our life.

Our son almost lost his arm a few months ago, a freak glass accident, 1-2 centimeters from slicing his tendon working as a Camp Counselor ....was God in that ~ The way it played down, even I felt it. Couldn't have asked for a better outcome .

I believe He IS with our family... This is enough.

To me... it matters not what anyone believes, because if their belief makes/helps/uplifts them to be that better person/that good example to mankind & more helpful to society as a whole in this crazy selfish world, then I say .... "Live and let be", cause I think we all have MORE in common than NOT in common if we could just look beyond our "Creeds".
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