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What Happened to Us?

10K views 73 replies 19 participants last post by  john117 
#1 ·
I am new to this forum, so I should briefly tell you about me. I am 49 year old male and will be celebrating 28 years of marriage this coming August. My wife is also 48, and we have 5 children, ages 26 to 15. (Two of which still live at home.)
I am retired from a big city police dept. after 22 years of service, and currently enjoy being a SAHD, restoring our 100+ yr. old home, and landscaping the large yard. My wife works as a nurse at a local hospital.
My problem and concern is one that has been growing for several years now, and I realize and want this to change.

My wife and I have not had sex in over two months, and she doesn't seem to care if we ever do. I understand that we are no longer in our 20's and full of hormonal lust for each other, but we aren't exactly getting around with walkers or canes yet either.

Yesterday, my wife, 17 year old daughter, and I were at the store looking at swimsuits for my daughter. My daughter was looking over the bikinis, and my wife said, "No, those aren't appropriate, they don't cover enough." Which caused me some pause. I didn't say anything until today, when I saw my wife watching, "The Evolution of the Bikini" video on the internet.
The internet video portrayal of the bikini was one of labeling the swimsuit as invented by a man to stimulate lustful, objectifying thoughts of women much like when a man thinks of using power tools.
I couldn't take it anymore, and voiced my disagreement with the video's conclusions.
I reminded my wife that she wore several bikinis when we were dating, and asked her if she thought that she was immoral for wearing them. She replied, "Yes, I probably was, but I was young and stupid too."
Now, this may not seem like a big deal, but this comes in a long string of other statements that have bothered and upset me.

We started dating back in the 80's and after a year of exclusive dating we lost our virginity to each other at the age of 19. We continued our serious relationship for 2 more years and got married at the age of 21. And trust me, we had more hot and heavy "porn-like" sex in those 2 years than even after getting married.
Needless to say, we were excited and eagerly anticipated getting married and not having to sneak our sexual encounters in my, or her parents homes. Finally, after moving out and getting married we could enjoy each other whenever, or wherever in our apartment we wanted.
Sadly, that didn't happen. After getting married, sex dropped to once or twice a week. Okay, I was a bit disappointed, but fine with it. Supporting oneself is a big step.

The years started rolling by, jobs, careers, homes came and went, our children were born, grew up and moved out.
If you charted our sexual activity over the last 20 years it would look like a stock market report. Some times it was high and climbing, other times it was low and infrequent. I think that's normal for most married couples.
However, I have noticed in conversations with my wife, that she regrets most of the things we did together when we were dating.
She now heavily regrets all the petting and sexual touching we did to each other before marriage.
She extremely regrets losing her virginity before we were married.
All of which I remember with great fondness and warmth thinking that she loved, and trusted me enough to share that physical part of her with me, and I with her. That was a part of her that attracted me. We were a perfect match sexually for each other, and she voiced the same to me at that time.

I hate it now when she starts the complaints about her past sexual regrets. It really hurts.
I might be able to understand it if she had lost her virginity to some jerk boyfriend, that abused her and left, but she married me and we have been married for nearly 28 years with 5 children.

Which brings us to the present. Now she is telling our daughter that when she was young she never wore a bikini or dressed in short-shorts, tank tops, or anything "immodest". Which is a bold-faced lie and very hypocritical.

Which brings me to my problem. I feel like my wife now regrets marrying me, could care less to have sex with me, and is trying to rewrite and erase our past because she now doesn't like who she was when she was younger.
She is now trying to mold our daughter into someone she thinks she should have been.
Her whole attitude about sex has completely changed from one of fun, playfulness and enjoyment with someone you love, to something shameful, dirty, disgusting and perverted.

What happened to us?
 
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#3 ·
We all have to justify everything we do (or don't do) to ourselves. Your wife isn't being sexual and hasn't for some time. She has to either believe she's being cruel to you or she has to find another reason to make her withholding seem right and logical to herself....Bingo...sex is suddenly immoral. She's at the age where female libido often takes a nosedive. It's perfectly normal. My wife does the same. When her libido is up, sex is ok. When her libido is down, anyone who has or mentions sex is a perv.
 
#4 ·
That's really sad.

Sounds like some counseling is in order, so you and she can both say out loud what is behind these feelings. For her, why is she re-writing history, and for you, why you want to celebrate your history. Maybe talking these things out in front of a counselor together can help get to the bottom of it.

Oh and you can discuss the missing sex, too.

.
 
#61 ·
While over generalized, I find a lot of truth in your statement...It seems that women spend a lot of time in introspection about their marriage, their husband, etc....While men tend to cruise along on autopilot if the relationship is even just bearable.......

Toxic GF's are also an issue......

I have overheard more than one "My husband is such a pr!ck" conversations between my wife and one of her friends....

In this case the GF's husband is truly a looser, carrying on an affair with another woman, constantly gone on weeks long hunting and fishing trips, doing nothing around the house, leaving notes wanting a D, with a list of demands and stupid ideas about how the property should be split, constantly openly flirting with other women......

I exhibit none of these behaviors, but after they have a few phone conversations I could see a decline in my wife's attitude about me.....

I wonder if Batmans wife has a toxic GF.....

After reading hundreds of threads I have concluded that for many women sex really didn't mean much to them....At first I was shocked, but after reading thread after thread I have concluded that the soft, warm, sensitive, emotional creatures we take to wife do not have one tenth of the emotional attachment to sex that even the most crude and boorish man does.........

A woman can have an astonishing sex life with her partner, having orgasm after orgasm in hundreds of positions, and circumstances.....A woman can be consumed by sexual desire and crave and beg for sex, and yet her emotional attachment to what might be a long history of great sex is NILL......

Sex is the thread that binds a man to his mate, and he can be full of wonderful memories and special events he will remember his entire life, and his partners attitude would be about the same as her daily trip to the mail box....Women have no emotional attachment to SEX.....

It is only a small drop in hormone levels away from a woman becoming the wife Batman describes.......

Once they get to that stage, only a serious threat to the status quo will convince them that sex in the marriage should indeed be a priority.......

good luck
the woodchuck
 
#9 ·
I am addressing you and what you said here: "In relation to sex, when left unmanaged by a husband, a wife's thoughts go in very marriage harming directions."

You are apparently making a general statement here, and I am asking you to speak only for yourself and your own wife with that particular statement because it is not a true general statement.

PLUS....the fact that you would even imply that a husband can or should "manage" a woman's thoughts on sex is ridiculous and impossible.

.
 
#11 ·
It is an accurate statement in marriages where a wife was sexual with her husband in the beginning and now thinks sex is wrong and dirty. Her thoughts went into a marriage harming direction. Her husband, throughout the marriage, is in a position to lead her to understand that sex in a marriage is a good, necessary, pure and wonderful thing. A man will fail at keeping his marriage functioning if he does not advocate for his sexual needs and keeping his wife thinking that sex is a good thing. No doubt, there is a small percentage of women who are so sexually driven that this is unnecessary.... But it's too complicated to constantly say "most, many, a large majority, a statistically significant population of, etc." in front of each and every post.

And, by letting a man know that he is not alone in his struggle inside his marraige, and that his wife's behavior and thought process is relatively common, I belive it gives more hope for him to see there is possibility to improve his marriage.
 
#10 ·
Batman4691, My husband and I are a few years older than you two, have been married for about a year longer with 5 children around the same age as yours.

I agree with unbelievable, your wife is at the age when she is going through hormonal imbalances and he is right about it affecting her brain and thinking. I went – going – through this and when my hormones are down, sex = yuck, I am getting much better and tried to cover it up, but the hormones are pretty powerful on their ability to control our thoughts.

As for the moral character she is trying to instill in her daughter, I think this is good. I have tried to teach all my children to be modest. The boys don’t run around without shirts on, the girls don’t wear tanks (without something over it), short-shorts, or bikinis. I think teaching kids to be more respectful of themselves and each other is something our society is sorely lacking. The difference is I don’t lie to them and tell them I never did that, I just don’t say anything, but if they ask I am honest. Your wife might have felt these teachings were lacking in her upbringing and since she has gotten older has come to appreciate them more and wants your daughter to be taught them.

Having said that, I do think that most of the things going on with her, being so regretful of her past, lack of interest in you, etc. is her hormones. See if she will go to the Dr. and get them checked. There are some better options on the market now, one being bio-identical hormones. There are several compounding pharmacy’s making them. If her Dr. in unfamiliar with them, just find a compounding pharmacy and the Pharmacist will be able to help her. When I first started going through the mid-life thing, I was much worse than your wife :banghead: it was really hard on myself and my husband and it took years to balance out again.
 
#14 ·
I don't disagree with the premise of wearing more modest clothes for teens or young adults; my daughters both have traffic-stopping looks thanks to a good blend of European and Asian genes, but I insist on some modesty.

The turning conservative part happens too. My wife did just that, from staunch Hillary supporter in 2008 to all Fox all the time. She probably has forgotten all the wild stuff we did in the 80s too.

The sex is a different story and could use a deeper analysis. But only that.
 
#20 ·
I have no clue what makes a man go non sexual with his wife. I doubt it is much like a woman going non sexual with her husband.

All feelings and attidudes in life are a choice made inside your own mind. And yes, people guide each other's thoughts in all sorts of ways.... Mabye I should have used the word "guide" instead of "manage"... Look at the example of the person who posted about his wife going from Hilary to Fox News... The people on Fox News guided her thoughts, feelings and beliefs into a different political philosophy.... Nothing wrong, sexist or sinnister. People who believe in something, talk about their beliefs in a compellling way, causing another person's thoughts and opinions to shift in that way.

A man can and should do this with his wife.

A woman (and men actually) can be raised to believe sex is wrong, bad, dirty etc....And once the wife has her husband, her kids and all the things that "sex" gives to her in life.... the social conditionining that sex is bad begins to dominate since there is nothing counteracting that (nothing inside the wife's mind giving her a reason for sex)... They need someone to counteract this condidtioning... Who else is supposed to do this? Her husband, has to be the one.

Is this 100% of wives or women ? No. But it's a common enough scenario in a sexless marriage. And, I think it's practical advice and choice of words to help the OP look at his situation in a different way then he has been for 28 years (yielding a result that he is not happy with).
 
#16 ·
Just to comment on what the wife is saying to your 17 year old daughter. As a dad, I have no problem telling my girls that as long as you live under my roof - no bikinis. Take a step back and think about this for a second. Maybe your wife is doing it wrong by lying about what she actually did at her young age, but insisting that your under the legal age girl dress appropriately is not the problem IMHO. Instead of lying, I'd take the approach that "if you want to live here, you dress like an appropriate lady". When my girls go off to college, then they can dress how they want. They will anyways since I won't be around to see what they are up to when they are on campus. but when you come home - you dress more modestly.

You wife may be going through the hormonal changes of life for women. It's possible that she needs to get herself regulated in order to regain some of that sexual desire. IDK, I haven't experienced all of that yet.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Do you think this is because your children are now at the same ages that she was when she was feeling sexually wild and cant bear the thought of them doing those same things?

I know it is hard when hour kids start hitting those milestones. Its one thing to lose your own virginity at 19 - its quite another to think of your daughter doing it.

My own children are old enough to be curious about my past - did I love anyone other than their dad, have I tried drugs, how old I was when I became a mother, etc. These are questions I have been asked recently.

Incidently that Evolution of the Swimsuit really rubbed me the wrong way. I thought I was the only one, though, because everyone on FB thinks its the best thing since sliced bread.
 
#22 ·
Ginger-snap, let me answer your questions first.

Well, first of all, have you asked her that same question? If so, what did she say?
I have talked with my wife about our decline, or drop off in sexual activity several times over the past few years. Her response is usually something like this. "Well, we're getting older, and it's just natural." She knows there is less activity in the bedroom and she is fine with it. She knows I am a bit frustrated with it, but to her, that's just how men act about sex. Men are always going to want it, but as a women ages, it just isn't that necessary. I then made the mistake of telling her that is why older men end up having affairs with younger women. She blew up at me, and started asking me if I was looking to have an affair and ruin our family. Then the questions and accusations really got nasty. I will never open that can of worms again.

Is the 17 year old your only daughter?
We have 2 girls. Our 17 year old is our youngest daughter. Our oldest child is our first daughter. She is married and has a baby of her own now. Our first grandchild.

Has your wife become more religious lately?
Over the last 20 years or so, my wife has slowly become more involved with her church and it's activities. Funny thing that you mentioned that. There could be direct charted lines over the last 20 years showing the increase in her church participation and the decline in our sexual encounters. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to turn this into a big religious debate, I am just saying it like it is.

You haven't had sex for 2 months...did it just stop or has it been in decline for awhile?
The sexual activity between my wife and I has been in a more noticeably decline for the past 3 to 4 years, and a more drastic decline in the last year. From once a week, to twice a month, to once a month, to 4 times a year.

When did you retire?
I retired about 5 years ago when the city I was working for offered bonus money to eligible retirees to clear out some of the higher paid officers. My wife and I discussed the option and we both agreed that she could carry the benefits and insurance stuff with her career, and I could retire and do some much needed work around our home while being home for our kids too. She is still very pleased with this arrangement, and I can't say that I hate it either.

I hope I answered your questions and gave you more insight into our situation.
 
#30 ·
The sexual activity between my wife and I has been in a more noticeably decline for the past 3 to 4 years, and a more drastic decline in the last year. From once a week, to twice a month, to once a month, to 4 times a year.
That sounds about right... If she finds it "normal" that sexual drive declines so drastically among healthy people she is simply trying to rationalize her LD or no D.

Humans are not good in spotting such patterns because the change happens slowly. But tracking the patterns really makes a difference. If she finds it too difficult to enjoy sex at 2x a month there is nothing intrinsically easier for 1x a month.

My wife gave me the "my body just can't handle" routine till I pointed out her body can handle 5 mile walks at 90F or spreading 15 cubic yards of mulch in a weekend. Once that facade came down the story changed to "I am stressed out at work"...

Honesty seems to be a lost art in some LD's...
 
#23 ·
First off I need to address my daughter and the "bikini" issue.
I am not for my 17 year old daughter to be running around anyplace and at anytime in a bikini. That is simply inappropriate.
I have always taught my children to dress appropriately for the occasion. If you are attending a funeral, you dress in a certain way. If you are going to a baseball game, you dress another way. If you are going to church there is an acceptable dress for that occasion. I can see nothing wrong with letting my daughter choose for herself what swimsuit to wear to the beach, pool, or lake. I know my daughter and I trust her. She gets great grades in school, doesn't sass or talk back, isn't a flirt or boy crazy, and has good friends.
What I do see as a problem is labeling the clothes she chooses to wear as "immodest" or "immoral". I thought those terms applied to an action, attitude or behavior, not a piece of clothing.
I have taught my daughter proper principles and trust her now to make some choices for herself.
Labeling a bikini as an immodest way to dress at the pool or beach, I think sends a message to our daughters that there is something wrong with their bodies that needs to be covered up. Good grief, a plunging neckline, bare stomachs, exposed thighs, backs and shoulders. Sounds like a real orgy to me.....NOT.
If these things send some men and boys thoughts into the gutter, that is the males problem, not my daughters. Too many woman have real body issue problems as it is. I don't see any reason to impose archaic religious dress standards upon my daughter like some middle eastern religions do.
I trust my daughter to dress appropriately for any and all occasions.
 
#24 ·
I have had a chance to read all your great responses and advice and thank you for your time and effort.
I even read though some older posts and found that I am just one man in a ship load of men with pretty much similar problems, who have similar complaints. Strangely, that is comforting to know that I am not alone.

To give you a better insight into my situation in comparison with other men who share in my complaint. I have already tried all the things that have been suggested to men with an "LD" spouse.
We did nights on the town, romantic dinners, flowers, shopping trips into Chicago's Miracle Mile, ballet tickets, theater tickets, vacation trips for just us two.
Don't get me wrong, my wife loved doing all those things and expressed her appreciation with thank you's, hugs and kisses, but with the same limited or no heat happening in the bedroom.

To illustrate my growing frustration, 2 years ago for our 25th wedding anniversary, I booked us on a week long Caribbean cruise. Thinking that it would be something like a 2nd honeymoon, with all its heat and passion, however, I ended up coming home very disappointed with the whole sexual situation.
We even ended up having an argument in our cabin on the 5th night with me storming out because she was always heading off to bed, (sleep) at 10pm. Her usual bedtime.
The first few nights I thought that she wanted to head to our cabin after dinner and the ship's floor show because she wanted to get me into bed. Actually, it was her that she wanted to get into bed. She would strip off her "modest" evening gown, (that's another complaint for later), take off her make-up, climb into bed, pull the blankets around her, say goodnight, roll over and fall asleep. This would leave me sitting there watching the TV.
For those first 4 nights, I tried to start something, but when she wraps up in the sheets and blankets like a mummy, I know her shields are up and it is useless to try.
On the 5th night after attending the show in the main theater, I suggested we go dancing in the disco, or later take in the midnight buffet out on the deck, or see what the karaoke night in the lounge was like, or the Salsa band and dancing up in the observation deck. She said that all sounded like it was for "drinkers," (she doesn't drink alcohol), and so tiring and she was still full from dinner and just wanted to lay down.
When we got back to our cabin I confronted her about ending all our evenings early and not having any sex while on our vacation.
She explained that we had just been so busy enjoying all the daytime activities on board, and all the site-seeing in the port cities the ship docked in, that she was exhausted by the end of the day. I told her that was an excuse to avoid having sex with me and she had turned frigid. I was angry.
I left our cabin and headed to the ships casino alone. I ended up playing roulette until my wife came and found me about an hour later. She apologized and said she would try harder to be more attentive sexually for me. Not exactly what I wanted to hear. She was going to make concessions for me. What a dear.
That night we had sex, but it was the usual 5 minutes of me doing foreplay on her, then the 5 minutes of me on top in the missionary position, with her head turned away, and her eyes shut, her arms and hands out to the side, with me doing all the work with little to no movement from her. She doesn't even touch me with her hands anymore.
If that situation for a man isn't the erectile dysfunction pill of all time, I don't know what is.
Half the time I think she climaxes, I don't know anymore since they are not like what they use to be 20 years ago, with her fists clenching the sheets and me, the body tremors after, and her vocal responses. Now, I just can't tell. She says she does, but I can't tell like before.

So I am left, like a lot of other men to wonder what is wrong, what did I do, what can I do, or is this just what life holds for middle aged couples?
 
#28 · (Edited)
OP... I'm five years behind you at 20 years but a few years ahead in 'dealing' with my wife's midlife and EA.

Here's the deal.

You wife does not want sex with YOU however she does like sex.

Your wife sees EVERYTHING you do as an avenue to get her to have sex with you...cruise included.

Your wife WANTS to feel sexual towards you and this not feeling it is hard on her also but she simply cannot feel that way towards you so she avoids it always.

Your demeanor and actions make her not feel sexual towards you she may "try" but something 'always' makes her re-consider.

That's what happened to you.

Its a by-product of long-term boredom, resentment and your acceptance of it. She has weighed the odds that you will not leave her. She does not spend ANY time trying hard to solve it. In fact she likes you and she herself would be gone if she didn't love you as the situation is best for her... however she does not love you as her lover... more like that of family love. She probably finds you attractive, smart a great guy but does not feel the desire to have you inside her as it does nothing for her she would rather get a good nights sleep.

I chose to set a time frame and work on it... if the time frame expires so does my ability to care about my wife. She is fully aware of this. We are improving. WE will see where we are once the clock strikes midnight.... there will either be an acceptable marriage or NOT. She has the power of change in her hand.
 
#29 ·
Batman4691, normally when a wife does this it is because over years she feels her emotional needs have not been met. When she has to shut down emotionally because she feels her husband is not approachable, does not listen to her, care about her emotional needs – she shuts down sexually. They are one in the same.

When you threaten her with having an affair, it just confirms to her that all you care about it sex. You are not interested in fulfilling her emotional needs. A woman continues to have sex with her husband for years hoping that if she meets his needs, he will meet her needs. But year after year goes by and still he is only interested in sex. So down she goes.

Couple this with the possibility that you are not speaking her love language. Do you know what it is? The cruise sounded great – if it was speaking her language. But if her language is “words of affirmation” then it was probably a waste of money (as you feel anyway). Have you read the 5 Love Languages?

Faithful Wife and Hicks – maybe this is what Hicks is trying to say, at least I thought it was. By “managing” he means to say – influencing. Influencing by the way he treats her. Is he meeting her emotional needs? Is he speaking her love language? All spouses have influence on their spouse, they have the ability and responsibility to let them feel loved, desired, appreciated, etc. by their actions and words. Sometimes we subconsciously or ignorantly do the opposite. By changing our behavior, we can have an influence on them to change their behavior – for good or bad – or sexually.
 
#35 ·
JustHer,
Maybe I didn't get across my point better. I didn't ever say I threatened my wife by having an affair. I said to her that I know why some men have affairs. She was the one that jumped that gap to conclude I was looking to have an affair. Just like you did.

I think I have done a fairly good job at meeting her emotional needs. I have always treated her with respect, and kindness.
I try and show interest in her hobbies and the things she does. I don't know how many husbands out there know Tabitha is the host of "Salon Takeover", or that "What Not to Wear" just got cancelled from the Style Network, or what the difference is between a "Serger" sewing machine and a straight stitch sewing machine, or that JoAnne's Fabric Store has a bi-weekly add that usually has a coupon for half off any fabric item or pattern, or my wife's shoe size is an 8W, but a 71/2 in heels, or she wears a size 10 dress, but a size 9 in jeans.
She loves roses in any color but her favorite flowers are Stargazer Lilies. She loves foot massages while we sit on the couch together watching the news. Her favorite holiday is Halloween with Christmas a close second. She loved stories about fairies when she was a child, so I built her a large fountain in our front yard with fairies all around it. She loves going antiquing and to yard sales, her favorite Disney character is "Dory" the fish. Her favorite chick-flick is "The Notebook". She loves Kashi Go Lean cereal with Silk (milk). She loves us vacationing with the kids in Disneyland, and loves hiking thru Yellowstone Park. but hates the humidity in Florida. She loves chocolate covered strawberries for Valentine's Day, so much so, it has become a tradition.
I know most of the names of the people she works with, and the names of those she doesn't care to work with. I know she worries about certain aspects of her job she thinks she needs improvement on. I know she loves 2 of her supervisors but dislikes the third. I know she has personally saved the lives of several patients at work and was awarded "Employee of the Month" two times in the past 5 years. I know she is a great nurse and would want her as my nurse if I were in the hospital.

I can make this list cover 20+ pages, but I think you get the idea. However, I bet if you asked my wife what my favorite NFL team has been for the past 30 years, she couldn't tell you. I don't think she could even name an NFL team.
And if you can believe this, one year SHE forgot our anniversary, and was only reminded when she came home from work and found a dozen roses and me waiting to take her out to dinner.

From what I read from you and some other members responses above, it sounds like I am an ***hole, who sits around all day in a recliner, in my man cave, while watching sports, yelling at my wife to bring me another sandwich. Isn't that the typical image of a husband who isn't attentive to his wife's "emotional" needs?
If what I said about my wife above isn't a small sample of an attentive husband concerned about his wife's emotional needs then I am simply unqualified for the job.
 
#31 ·
The cruise details were quite on the spot if you're a cruise aficionado... Depending on where you go and where you flew from time lag can be nasty. I was a lot sleepier in our last cruise to Alaska a year ago, combination of time zone change, lots of food, and tired from running around all day.

We usually get a cabin for 4 which kills off the hanky panky quickly :(. This winter I'm planning a Central America cruise and separate cabins for us and our children (cost difference not as much as it used to be). I can't wait to provide true details of MMSL (merchant marine sex life :D)
 
#32 ·
she was always heading off to bed, (sleep) at 10pm. Her usual bedtime.

When I go to bed I am tiered too. A few years ago I realized that I just didn't have the energy at night and asked my husband if we could change to the morning, or early afternoon. I was more awake and my hormones were more active during this time. It works great when he is willing.
 
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