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A few family members (boys) are planning to get married in the next couple years. One question I am frequently asked is how do I keep what I earn separate from spouse. Initially my reaction was to advise not marrying, but I researched more about prenups/post nups and community property and there is a lot men can do if they want this type of arrangement
1) Reside in a non-community property state (if in the US)
Non-community property states are equitable distribution states. In those states, the judge can choose what % each spouse gets. They will often give the lower earning spouse more than 50% because the idea is that the higher earning spouse can make up the difference more quickly. This is especially true is a woman is a stay-at-home-mom.

2) Always marry a woman who has a job that can feed her
This is helpful. But assets and debts are still split.

3) Sign a well vetted prenup with presence of attorney
Can work if written well and if the judge doesn't see a hole in it.

4) Do not buy a house, it is considered community property in most states, always rent and always pay portion of rent
Yea, paying rent which is usually higher than a mortgage payment makes a lot of sense... NOT! At least with a house, it can be sold and there is equity.

How about each, husband & wife, put down equal amount in down payment and then make payments out of community income.


5) Always use separate bank/financial institutions to deposit any and every form of earning, ask wife to sign assignment of interest form from financial institution

6) File taxes as married filing separately (is this needed?)
Filing taxes as married filing separate is a much higher rate than filing married (joint). It's a higher tax rate than filing as single. So, both spouses would pay higher tax rates.

So far you are suggesting not to buy a home which is not only the largest invest most people have and to pay a very high rate of income tax.

7) Regularly sign postnups after marriage
What's purpose of being married?

8) Banks/financial institutions in your name should only have month or two of expenses, any and every investment $ to be invested through a gift to your parents or a trust (if you have the $$$$)

9) Any remaining assets to be in non traceable form ex. gold, crypto, buried cash etc. (assuming its legal in your state to hide assets)

Any other tips from members here? Don't want the 'don't marry if you don't trust her'. Its impossible to fully vet someone prior to marriage leave alone predicting their behavior several years later
Yea, the tip is if someone is this paranoid, they should not get married.
 

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The 'bury your cash advice' comes from laws in some states. There is no legal requirement to disclose your assets to your spouse during marriage and in divorce assets to be split have to be self disclosed. Therefore is it legal to not disclose assets not known to your spouse? I think the answer is yes, although I need to research more here
I hope that anyone with this attitude you have is at least honest enough to tell their spouse that they intend to lie, cheat, and steal from the marital finances. Your 'advice' is horrible.
 

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LoL, "marital finances!!" that's one big statement, who on earth decided marriage was the union of two paychecks??
Marriage has always been about merging finances and operating as one legal/financial entity.

Of course, the laws used to favor the man as a woman's assets and income were legally considered the property of her husband, not hers. A man could divorce his wife, or kick her out of the home, and keep all of her assets. Women could not work to support themselves and their children and their husband was not required to support her either if he kicked her out and/or divorced her.
 

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It goes both ways but you know as well as I do that it's usually the man that gets raked over the coals with the current legal system.
What's "funny" about what you say here is that of the women I know who divorced, only one got any alimony. And every one of them had a job and raised children. When I divorced I got nothing. He was able to walk off with his MD and no debt for that MD cause I paid for it.

Today, 50% of women earn as much or more than their husband. There would be no alimony going to a woman in these cases.

A lot of states, to include California, now allow for the idea in divorce that the lower earning spouse (usually the woman who is a SAHM) has a set amount of time to get alimony but has to become self-supporting. If she doesn't alimony stops.
 

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You are entitled to your view on marriage, I am trying to provide options to 18-20 yr old boys who don't want to share finances after marriage
Then tell them not to marry.
 

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Agreed but my ex lied on those very docs, I stated it in court and absolutely nothing happened.
Yea, my ex did that too. I however had made copies of everything, to include the records of the accounts taht he thought were secret. I had proof of him moving my money (earned from my job) to an account in his mother's name. Also had records of him making payments on his mother's and his father's houses. Boy, was he pissed when it showed them in court.
 

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EleGirl, I do agree mostly with your sentiment.

typically, I agree with courts and everything should be split evenly (especially when it comes to SAHM), but I think the laws need to change a bit. At least in my state they still heavily favor the wife in a divorce. It requires the husband to tread extremely carefully so as not to get raked over the coals. Things are definitely not split up evenly here.

But I don’t blame women for these laws. I blame the lawmakers.

I don’t agree with all of OP’s suggestions, but I do think people need to protect themselves going into marriage. You never know when one Of the spouses is going to snap. It’d be nice to trust that person for the rest of your life, but unfortunately, that’s not how our world works all the time.
I agree with you that the laws need to change. The laws we have now were created to correct problems that existed when women could not work to support themselves and their children and all assets legally belonged only to the man. Times have changed and the laws need to catch up. Long term or permanent alimony should be very rare now. I can see rehabilitative alimony for a SAHM or a woman who can't earn enough to support herself. But if she does not do the work get the training to be self-supporting in a reasonable about of time, then the alimony should change.

Our society is changing so fast that it's hard for the laws to keep up with the changes.

But I still believe that honesty is very important.
 

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Keeping finances separate and not looking into your partners finances is the ultimate form of trust
I find this comment coming from you amusing. You are the one here talking about teaching young men how to hide their income and assets from their spouse if/when they get married. Basically, you want to teach them to take advantage of the love and trust their wife would have for them.

We have people post on here all the time talking about how they just found out that their spouse has been secretly running up debt, hiding assets, lying about income, etc.

I would never expect a spouse to 'just trust me'. Nope, everything should be open and transparent in marriage.

Since you are teaching these young guys to be dishonest with their potential wife, what are you teaching them about their obligations in marriage? Are you telling them that they need to do 50% of all childcare, all house work, cooking, etc.? What happens if one of them becomes disabled and can't support himself? I guess with your attitude, their wife should divorce them since the guy won't be able to support themself.
 

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Really??? Fine, I'll hook you up with my XW then.
They can?!?!?! 🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣
Since about 50% of women earn as much or more than their husband, it's pretty clear that there are women who can have careers that are as lucrative as their husband's careers at the very least.
 

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Going to play Devil's advocate here for a second. One one side you have a man who is insistent that you should hide your assets from a potential spouse out of concern that the spouse would take them in a divorce. One the other side you have a woman saying that her love is contingent on her having access to those assets. Seems like a lose/lose proposition. I'll stay single.

My answer to this would be that only assets gained DURING the marriage are open to division. Any money EITHER partner had BEFORE the marriage should be untouchable by the other. May not be popular but seems like the best way.
Why would that not be popular? It's the law in most states. It's also the law in most states that inheritance belongs only to the spouse who inherited it. The trick is to not mix the separate assets with community assets. Or if they are mixed make sure to have a strong prenup or postnup.
 

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I would be in favor of a law like this. That family money, previous earnings, etc were not part of the settlement. We need to do a LOT of work on marriage and family court laws. As has been said, the world has changed and the laws haven’t. If it weren’t possible for women to take men to the cleaners with a divorce, those bad women wouldn’t marry and we wouldn’t have this problem.
Divorce laws in most states recognize separate property that is comprised of assets a person had before marriage and anything they inherit.
 

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I would be in favor of a law like this. That family money, previous earnings, etc were not part of the settlement. We need to do a LOT of work on marriage and family court laws. As has been said, the world has changed and the laws haven’t. If it weren’t possible for women to take men to the cleaners with a divorce, those bad women wouldn’t marry and we wouldn’t have this problem.
Here's the law in your state....

Here's an article that addresses the topic. I'm quoting only a small part of the discussion on the many things that are considered separate property and cannot be claimed by a spouse in a divorce...

"Separate property includes anything that belonged to one spouse before marriage and was kept separate throughout the marriage. It could also include income from separate property, property that was given only to one spouse during the marriage--for example, a gift made by a friend or family member to the husband alone, or an inheritance that the wife received from a relative. (Tex. Fam. Code Ann. § 3.001.) "
 

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Of course, the divorce rate when the wife earns more is 50% higher. So there's that.
Yes, and the rate of the husband cheating is many times higher if his wife earns more.

Trying to paint one sex as being evil is not ok. There are good on bad people in both sexes.
 

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We need government out of marriage entirely. Civil unions if people choose. Custom contracts would be even better, that way some dudes can say "she can live here but I will give her NOTHING. Not even cab fare, she's just trying to steal my money." 😂
I disagree with getting government out of marriage. Marriage, and family, is the basis of society and our economy. Without laws that govern things like how marital income, assets, debt, inheritance, etc. there would be complete chaos.
 

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If Marriage is that critical to society, how can employers fire you without looking at your marital status?
Yea and our society is doing so well, isn't it? We have so many children growing up in homes without a father. Look at the crime rates. We have more people in prison than any other country and most of them are men who grew up without a father.

The people who do best in our society, even today, are those who marry and stay married.

If Marriage is that critical to society, how can employers fire you without looking at your marital status?
Employers are not regulated to that extent by our government. Businesses are created by people putting in their own money, time, effort and talent. They don't owe anyone a job.
 

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So why are married people's assets being regulated? If asset creation is not regulated in anyway why should asset division be regulated. Each person in the marriage is putting in their own time, effort and talent, and they don't need the government to tell them they should split in half
Assets for businesses are regulated in that there are laws that apply for each business structure: C-Corp, S-Corp, LLC, Sole Proprietorship, Partnership, Non-Profit, etc. And then there are the businesses that are publicly owned and show up on the stock exchanges. These laws rule over things like split of profits, ownership of assets, obligation for debts, etc. Basically, much like marriage in many ways.

My point is that the government can't force any business to hire anyone. Businesses are not required to have employees other than the owners.

The good news is that Alimony (most states) and now Child Support (shared parenting plans) is going the way of the dodo, so the 50:50 seems like the last relic standing
Child support is not going the way of the dodo. What's happening is that the income of both parents and the amount of time the child(ren) spends with each parent is being taken into consideration. Even with a 50/50 division of physical custody, if one parent earns a lot more than the other, they will be paying some child support to help the lower earning parent provide for the children.

And alimony is becoming less of a thing because most marriages are two-income so most people can support themselves after a divorce. Alimony will remain for a spouse who needs it such as a women who spent decades as a stay-at-home-mom, a disabled spouse, etc.

Your attitude is so profoundly sad. The good thing is that women are no longer forced to marry some bloke that their parents pick out for them. So, they can decide to avoid guys with this attitude.
 

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Or just don’t marry at all. Then the government has no say on anything and you can just lie if you accidentally knock someone up.
Nope, lying about someone who is accidently knocked up does not work anymore because we have DNA tests. The court can order one to prove/disprove paternity.
 

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To be fair, how often does a woman when getting divorced hear from her friends, family and lawyer to "take him for everything"? A LOT!
It very much depends on who her friends are and why she is getting divorced. It’s important not to judge all women by a few bad ones. How often do men say “I want a stay at home wife and mother” and proceed to cheat constantly, because what is she gonna do, she has no money? A LOT!
Absolutely, it depends on one's friends. I would not be friends with anyone who had taht attitude, nor would I hire a lawyer who does.

It's clear that there are both men and women who get caught up the adversarial part of divorce and lawyers who love to stir the pot because they make more money that way.
 

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Do not have time to read through 12 pages of this but what is the hostility to prenup arrangements? Its gender neutral and with women often earning more than men is a benefit to both genders based on the circumstances. Its also sexual orientation neutral as it can be applied in non traditional marriages as well. The famous singer Kelly Clarkson was recently divorced and her prenuptial agreement was enforced. She still paid her ex a fortune but could have been so much worse:
I don't think anyone here is hostile to prenups. They make sense in certain cases. But the OP's opening post is ridicules to the point of telling his male teenage relatives to plan to bury money on their property to hide it from some wife they might have some years down the road.
 

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If a husband contributes 100% of household expenses, looks after kids education and upbringing, loves his wife and then tells her he is not interested in how much she makes or spends and would like some privacy with his remaining income and assets. Would you call that lack of honesty or a devoted spouse asking for privacy? Also if he told her he is worried about unfair asset split during divorce, given that women turn very emotional and do incredibly hurtful things during separation, should she not calm him down by agreeing to privacy?
Yea, and men are always so wonderful and fair about splitting assets if the couple divorces. You know, men never get all emotional and very mean and unfair things during divorce.

Your view of women is just awful. I hope your teen relatives come to realize that your attitude and advice is counter productive to their future.
 
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