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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:

a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse

b) Requests that a spouse should be completely free to decline with no negative consequence.

Requests of type a) typically follow the pattern of something that's well enough established in the mainstream to be expected. If not, then the burden usually gets placed more on the declining than on the asking partner. Too many of these in a relationship, and the two of you probably have significant compatibility issues. Maybe you need to find someone who is a fully realized sexual being to meet your needs.

Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.

I'm old enough and been around the block enough times to know that sexual problems are way, way, WAY more about the union of two styles than about what any one person finds erotic, but I'm still a little fascinated by this distinction and where the line is drawn, especially with how big a hammer people will use on those they perceive to be violating the rules of request type b) compared to the sympathy usually shown for those frustrated with type a).

Most of us agree that humiliation has no place in the bedroom (unless that's your thing). So if I, hypothetically, have a wife who feels humiliated if you touch her breasts, or genitals, anything other that missionary PIV sex, or oral sex under any circumstances, which category do I land in? If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?
 

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I think if we look at desires and comfort with acts across the population we could find guidelines that perhaps 75% of the psychologically healthy adults would agree on. Anything inside those bounds would most frequently be agreeable. If your spouse rejected the random thing inside those lines it is your job to get over it. If your spouse rejects numerous things inside those lines your spouse has psychological issues and you are a victim.

I don't know if anal is currently in the mainstream, but neither my wife nor I am interested in trying it. Your example of touching breasts or genitals is very much central to normal sexuality, so I would say you are not a cad for pushing for it.

Pushing the boundaries I think is fine from a request standpoint but not an insisting standpoint. If it gets to where most things you want is beyond her capacity, there is a fundamental incompatibility. Assessing blame isn't helpful because it won't "cure" either one of you.
 

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Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.
I am curious about how others think this should apply in a LTR. On one hand, I agree completely that hounding your spouse over something they have declined in not acceptable. On the other hand, I don't think that re-raising a topic after sometime is unreasonable, particularly if circumstances have changed (such as an increased sexual interest by your spouse).
 

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Categorizing requests into "reasonable" and "unreasonable" using some bell curve to establish "mainstream" sexual interests is not helpful.

If it were, then people whose interests are far out on that curve are just out of luck in life? Everything they want is unreasonable? No.

Statistics regarding what is normal can only be helpful as an aid in your search for an appropriate partner. Once you are in a relationship with someone that is the only person that matters. The options are a) one person allows their boundaries to be moved and b) the other person goes unfulfilled and c) divorce.

Any blame for a gap that cannot be bridged must be borne by both parties. One person failed to communicate and the other person failed to do due diligence on their partner.
 

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Categorizing requests into "reasonable" and "unreasonable" using some bell curve to establish "mainstream" sexual interests is not helpful.

If it were, then people whose interests are far out on that curve are just out of luck in life? Everything they want is unreasonable? No.

Statistics regarding what is normal can only be helpful as an aid in your search for an appropriate partner. Once you are in a relationship with someone that is the only person that matters. The options are a) one person allows their boundaries to be moved and b) the other person goes unfulfilled and c) divorce.

Any blame for a gap that cannot be bridged must be borne by both parties. One person failed to communicate and the other person failed to do due diligence on their partner.
I agree with you, so my bell curve statistic may not have been properly stated.

I think any request is valid to make once. Even if it is way out on the tail of the curve. My point was that repeated denials of middle of the road stuff, like touching genitals, is not reasonable. Nor is repeatedly asking for something which is denied.

All of it comes down to negotiating what is acceptable to each person. If one person is not willing to do one or more particular acts, and if those acts are central needs of the other person, the gap as you stated is borne by both. Either person has the right or responsibility to end the relationship when their limits are exceeded.
 

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I just want to say that I don't think that there is such a thing as an unreasonable request in a sexual relationship, ie. anal, BDSM, pegging, golden showers, etc. HOWEVER, one must remember that it is just that, a request. Your SO is under no obligation to say yes to ANYTHING at all that s/he is not comfortable with. That includes what we may consider regular stuff - oral, mutual masturbation, doggy style, etc.

I agree with east2west's comment.
 

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- Sexual requests that involve outside parties. We are totally comfortable discussing this, or sharing fantasies and ideas, but it would become an unreasonable request if one of us actually expected to invite others into the bedroom.

- Severe Pain. Blood sport. Mutilation.

- Golden or Brown Showers.

Everything else is on our "reasonable request" list.
 

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It would be unreasonable to marry a person and then expect them to live without sex against their will when you have the ability to provide. Under category (b), the denied spouse should have the right to decline to live a life of celibacy but should suffer no ill consequences. Matter-of-fact, they should be reimbursed for any loss they incurred during the fraud plus monetary damages.
 

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"Should"? Bad word for relationships.

I think it would be best to have the expectation that you feel secure enough with your spouse to talk about any subject, express desires and boundaries with each other, and take an interest in exploring each other using those desires and boundaries as the guidelines.
 

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This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:

a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse

b) Requests that a spouse should be completely free to decline with no negative consequence.

Requests of type a) typically follow the pattern of something that's well enough established in the mainstream to be expected. If not, then the burden usually gets placed more on the declining than on the asking partner. Too many of these in a relationship, and the two of you probably have significant compatibility issues. Maybe you need to find someone who is a fully realized sexual being to meet your needs.

Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.

I'm old enough and been around the block enough times to know that sexual problems are way, way, WAY more about the union of two styles than about what any one person finds erotic, but I'm still a little fascinated by this distinction and where the line is drawn, especially with how big a hammer people will use on those they perceive to be violating the rules of request type b) compared to the sympathy usually shown for those frustrated with type a).

Most of us agree that humiliation has no place in the bedroom (unless that's your thing). So if I, hypothetically, have a wife who feels humiliated if you touch her breasts, or genitals, anything other that missionary PIV sex, or oral sex under any circumstances, which category do I land in? If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?

NO LONGER HAVING SEX.....
One of my wifes favorites.......
 

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If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?
The boundaries aren't so vague.
  • Don't beg a woman to put something in your anus. As hard as relationships are to hold together nowadays, feminizing yourself doesn't re-enforce a very attractive image to most women.
  • Don't nag a woman for anal sex, if it happens it happens, the more you whine, the less chance you'll get it.

The issue you mention about touching breasts, etc, etc, isn't even in the same ballpark, you can't draw a parallel between typical heterosexual activity and what's normally considered homosexual activity with a woman; you can try and try and try and try, and you can try some more, but it is what it is. All the porn freaks getting paid to take it in the butt and all the prison butt buddies in the world, will not make the behavior mainstream.

Now with that said, if two people mutually work their way into it during sex, then great, enjoy! But pestering one another, (emphasis on pestering) to do something that a reasonable person would find unusual, is simply ridiculous and destructive.

While we're at it, let's throw in the porn induced acceptance of the girl on girl behavior that took off over the past 10 or 15 years; that's working out real well isn't it? She kissed a girl and she liked it? Right. There's a real marriage builder for ya.

T
 
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- Sexual requests that involve outside parties. We are totally comfortable discussing this, or sharing fantasies and ideas, but it would become an unreasonable request if one of us actually expected to invite others into the bedroom.

- Severe Pain. Blood sport. Mutilation.

- Golden or Brown Showers.

Everything else is on our "reasonable request" list.
I'm with Jaquen... no outside parties, no severe pain/blood/mutilation, no golden showers, no sh!t, and in our case... no anal.
 

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This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:

a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse

b) Requests that a spouse should be completely free to decline with no negative consequence.

Requests of type a) typically follow the pattern of something that's well enough established in the mainstream to be expected. If not, then the burden usually gets placed more on the declining than on the asking partner. Too many of these in a relationship, and the two of you probably have significant compatibility issues. Maybe you need to find someone who is a fully realized sexual being to meet your needs.

Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.

I'm old enough and been around the block enough times to know that sexual problems are way, way, WAY more about the union of two styles than about what any one person finds erotic, but I'm still a little fascinated by this distinction and where the line is drawn, especially with how big a hammer people will use on those they perceive to be violating the rules of request type b) compared to the sympathy usually shown for those frustrated with type a).

Most of us agree that humiliation has no place in the bedroom (unless that's your thing). So if I, hypothetically, have a wife who feels humiliated if you touch her breasts, or genitals, anything other that missionary PIV sex, or oral sex under any circumstances, which category do I land in? If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?
You seem to have completely missed the issue of the anal sex thread. It was not that he wanted anal sex and asked for it. It was that he had an attitude of entitlement no matter how she felt about it. He would not allow it on himself because he felt it would hurt but he expected her to do it eventhough he was sure it would hurt. And the icing on the cake was that he will go to a prostitute for it if his wife will not engage in it.

It's the ATTITUDE that was the issue of that thread.
 

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Unreasonable is atm or piv after AS without a trip to the shower. I will not accept a sexless marriage. I cannot accept one sided sexual relationship. I will not accept a third party. There is a lot that's reasonable to me. We don't have too many boundaries.


EDIT TO ADD:

It is unreasonable and across the board unacceptable if he or I suggest a sex act and is told or say why don't you try it for yourself first.

And peeing. Don't pee on me, I don't want to pee on you. And no Boston steamers either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
You seem to have completely missed the issue of the anal sex thread. It was not that he wanted anal sex and asked for it. It was that he had an attitude of entitlement no matter how she felt about it. He would not allow it on himself because he felt it would hurt but he expected her to do it eventhough he was sure it would hurt. And the icing on the cake was that he will go to a prostitute for it if his wife will not engage in it.

It's the ATTITUDE that was the issue of that thread.
I didn't miss it in the least.

If his question had been "Can we please have PIV intercourse" and the answer had been "No", the forum would have erupted with a unanimous verdict of "get out of the marriage".

Some things are considered de rigeur in a sexual relationship, to which the requesting party is entitled or the relationship should be considered null and void. Other things, like anal, are not, and the spouse pestering for that is considered callous and unfeeling.

The primary difference is not in the attitude. A loving spouse who keeps asking, nice as pie, and who is willing to get pegged by his wife before trying it on her will still get told that "No means no", that you should lovingly accept this as a reasonable limit from your spouse.

The boundary between the two slowly shifts over time as well. 'Twas an era when requesting a bj from your wife would have been considered by most to be a disgusting act of sodomy.

The two situations, separated only by the act itself, are NOT considered to be the same by most of us. Myself included. I'm interested in that difference, because as an HD spouse I'm always running the commentary in my head on whether or not I'm being unrealistic. If "no means no", and I'm just not being sensitive to that answer, then I have additional work to do on acceptance.
 

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I think that most adults would find all of these reasonable & expected acts that shouldn't require requests:

1- oral both ways separately (at least in foreplay)
2- 69
3- handjobs, fingering, vibrator play
4- vaginal sex in missionary, girl on top & doggy style

Then you have you 'next level' acts that can require a request, or a nice spouse takes it upon themself to do it:

1- BJ until completion (cum in mouth for extra care)
2- sex during the period
3- cunnilingus during said period
4- anal play both ways (tongue, finger, toys)
5- anal sex

Then you have your 'special category' that can go anywhere you want, obviously a very understanding spouse needed and open-minded with the requests. Fulfill those fantasies and satisfy those dirty little fetishes:

1- water sports
2- BDSM
3- threesomes
4- cream pies
5- strap-on role reversal

Etc.
 
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