[aeasty]

I guess I will start from the beginning of or relationship and try and make it a quick as possible. sorry it may be long.

We met when we were 17 at a local fast food restaurant we both worked at and we started dating shortly after there was a couple minor issues as all relationships have at the start. one being she was fairly religious and I was not and I am a lot more mature for my age then she was. but now we are about par.

Basically when we started dating she was a virgin and a fairly shy girl and I was a little bit of a party animal but that was just how we were we dated for 4 and a half years before we got married, we got married at 22 and we had about 6 months before she really started wanting to have a baby we had our son on the way shortly after that, we are now 14 months after his birth and I can count on one hand the amount of sexual moments we have had.

Now I don't think I will ever cheat on my wife no matter how long between intimate times. But she has for the last 12 months used any and all excuses to not get intimate like I'm tired, headache, sore back, not in the mood and so on. the birth of our son was nothing major everything went fine she only needed a couple of stitches and she didn't breast feed, the doctor said wait 8 to 12 weeks to let everything heal and stuff and we did, actually went longer because she didn't feel like it and all the usual things, went to about 15 weeks and then I got my 1st hit of "to get you off my case pity sex" which is horrible very, very cold and disconnected. almost like with a dead person I would imagine not a word or even arms around me just lay there and wait till I either finish or fake it so I can leave.
(yep I have faked cumming to get out of pity sex)

With sex it has never been super outrageous, in all honesty it has been pretty mundane since the very start, she didn't really enjoy it at the start because she was a virgin( I was not but I was no super star either) I never pressured her into it or anything and she was religious so I was happy taking things slow, but about 4 to 5 months in after months of other sexual play she said she was ready and we made love for the 1st time as normal bit of pain for her at the start and took a couple of times before she achieved an orgasm from sex. she has never been willing to try much in the way of sex one position only. and never on top at first I put it down to inexperience and discomfort but nothing was changing and I accepted it.

As for inciting it well it has been me until we got married then it was her 5 times more then me then with her pregnancy at the start she was pretty sick and I understood completely and when it calmed down she didn't for the rest of the pregnancy. she has only incited it once since the birth of our son. it was around 11pm one night she started playing with me when I was asleep and when I woke up she offered a blow job because she felt bad from my birthday 2 weeks before where I tried to make a move on her and she knocked me back and then I walked in on her masturbating 2 minutes later. but the blowjob didn't happen because her mouth was sore. so basically got left with a wood and woken up only to have her roll back over. My birth day is in February by the way

In march I asked if there was anything I could do to start getting our sex life back on track and she gave me a list of things like do more house work so I have been and even got a cleaner in as well and look after our son more I now have him 3 days a week 2 of I "work from home" where I get no work done and my favourite spend more time as a family, kinda makes time hard with work and giving her "her time" and looking after our son leaves me with about 4 hours on a sunday after noon to spend time as a family or get in a couple of hours of me time usually involves a couple of mates and our dirt bikes.

Since I started completing the list it has grown and pretty much every time I get one thing off the list more gets added. I am just at a lost to what to do now for the last 6 months I have been researching like crazy and trying to get out of this rut I have tried and tried to get her to come with me to a marriage councillor or a doctor and a therapist and she refuses I have told her how I feel about it and made it very clear how when she knocks me back the as soon as I leave the room starts masturbating makes me feel she hasn't stoped or even tried to hide it, hell I walked in this morning after she said she had a headache and I just paused for a second while I thought this is what my life has come to and she stoped to tell me "GET OUT"

What do I do???

 

[RFguy]

I will probably get flamed to a crispy toast, but after reading all those stories on TAM, I have come to the conclusion that when one person postpones sex on religious grounds, more often than not, "religion" is a codeword for "I have personal issues" and/or "I don't like sex".

You had the best sex possible with that girl during the pre-pregnancy time. No matter what you do, you will never ever get any better than that.

It is up to you if you want to continue that relationship and have ****ty sex for the rest of your life or leave an find someone more suitable.

 

[aeasty]

RFguy - I am very much starting to believe that the best sex was pre- pregnancy! she wasn't so bad before marriage just I would normally be the one leading.

On another note I did what I probably shouldn't have done tonight I brought it up to get yet another offer of pity sex which I called her on and said famous last words saying "sex like that is about as much fun as slamming my **** in a door" and now is 11pm and I am sleeping in the spare room with my laptop to warm the bed. I just don't get it I am willing to try and do anything and everything for her and she doesn't want any of it.

 

[aeasty]

also before I shoot myself in the foot with her I had suggested we take a long weekend away and leave our son at my parents or hers (I think she doesn't really like my parents but who really likes all their in laws) and she rejected the idea because "you would expect things in return". this is about where I lost my cool just let it all out and dumped it at her feet to be rewarded with pity

 

[IsGirl3]

i feel for you. you are too young to become celibate and live like roommates with your wife forver. your marriage is in danger. does you wife know that? although you may not be thinking this now, you need to set a timeframe in your mind, and if things don't change, or if you don't become indifferent, you're going to have to leave. you are way too young to accept less than mediocrity for the rest of your life. don't have another kid with her.

 

[Anon Pink]

Wow, so your wife is masturbating, getting caught masturbating no less, but still makes excuses to not have sex with you? Your wife was a shy virgin when you met her and now 4 years later sex went from so so to awful after her first pregnancy.

I like that you haven't let this go for so long. I really like how you have asked her what YOU can do to help and then followed through. I don't like her excuses, and they are gals, phony and complete BS!

I am 50 and have a bad back and I tell my husband I need a massage to loosen those muscles so I can do all the arching I like to do when we have sex. I do my daily exercises just so that I can painlessly and easily continue in any sexual position that strikes my fancy. AND I asked for and got a sex swing for my birthday just for those times when my back is really not cooperating!

Your wife is young and doesn't understand much about her sexuality and sure as shooter doesn't understand about a mans sexuality.

First, go to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and print out two copies of Emotional Needs Questionnaire. While at that web site, you will find explanations FOR women about understanding a mans need for sexual love. We women don't see a mans sexual desire as his way of seeking and accepting love. We see men as poon hounds, our husband included. Until that perception get corrected, she will continue to put you off.

Secondarily, you've got something really positive to work with in that she masturbates. That means she has a sex drive! What needs to happen is to discover why her sex drive is not directed toward you.

Is she able to orgasm with you? A lot of women have a hard time getting an orgasm with their husbands, mostly this has to do with shame and fear and not being able to embrace their sexuality fully.

Will she give you directions and hints about what she likes? harder, softer, further down... That kind of stuff? Does she enjoy oral sex?

Last on the list, your appearance. Be clean, shave, brush your teeth, and wear cologne. Unless she has stated she doesn't like men in cologne, most women dislike the scent of a man unless she is ovulating.

Dont allow this sex refusal to continue. It is a big problem in a marriage and it has to be viewed as a couples problem where you BOTH are honest with each other in order to find ways to solve it and be happy together.

 

[Aitrus]

aeasty,

I'm in much the same position you are. I've been fighting this for the past 15 years, and I've finally decided a few things. I'm making good progress because I'm following a plan. One of the first things I learned is that bad sex isn't the problem, it's a symptom of deeper issues. Trying to fix the sex without addressing the deeper issues won't work, and only builds resentment between both of you.

Here's the plan:

- You can't change her. You can only change yourself. She will either choose to change with you, or will choose not to. This will be one of the biggest, most freeing things you will ever come to accept.
- You need to decide what will make you happy. Write it down, and frame them as needs. Examples from my list: "I need to feel freedom by riding a motorcycle. I need to have a fulfilling, satisfying, adventurous and varied sexual intimacy with my partner. I need to have meaningful time with other men. I need to pursue my own interests at my own pace."
- You need to know absolutely in your mind that divorce is an option. You are responsible for your own happiness. She isn't responsible for it. You need to take steps to make yourself happy.
- Read the following books: No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover; Married Man's Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay; His Needs Her Needs by Willard Harley; The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Do all the exercises, except in Married Man's Sex Life Primer - these come later if she starts improving. You can ask your wife to join you in these books if she seems amicable, but don't plead. If you do decide to ask her to join you, let her know that you're trying to fix you and you need her help to do it.
- Drop the issue with sex - completely. Don't initiate, don't hint, don't do ****. Just accept that your sex life will suck for a while, and there's nothing you can do about it. The more you pressure her the longer it will take to get good again, if at all. Continue to be courteous to her, spend more time with your child, etc. Don't go cold-shoulder on her, just be calm, assertive, reserved and transparent.
- Set the tone and take the lead. This doesn't mean to control her, it means to stop asking things like "What do you want to do tonight?" Make a decision on what you would like to do, then invite her to participate. If she doesn't, no biggie, just go ahead with your plan.
- If you masturbate to porn, then stop. Practice healthy masturbation, which is masturbating without fantasy running through your head. Touch yourself, please yourself, learn what makes you get off. Focus on the pleasure you're feeling, not the things you're seeing. Learn to control yourself and your urges. More on this in No More Mr. Nice Guy.
- Do research on divorce in your state. Get the forms and fill them out. Have them ready.
- Get your finances in order. If you do break, you want as clean a break as possible.
- After you finish getting you where you want to be (physically, mentally, and know what you need from a relationship and what you should be providing), then re-assess the situation. By that point, she should have noticed the changes you've been making and have moved toward you in some ways. This point is when you have "The Talk". The Talk involves you laying out what it is that you need in order to feel happy, and that you don't believe you can be happy in this relationship as it stands now. She needs to know that divorce is an option. She will likely try to call your bluff. You counter this by having divorce paperwork already filled out. Remember what Kenny Rogers said: "Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run."

Before you do any of this, you must be absolutely clear in your mind about one thing: you must be willing to walk away. If you aren't, she will sense it and will just call your bluffs. If there's no consequence to her continued behavior, she has no reason to change. Divorce must be an option every day in every marriage. You must be able to choose her each and every day. Yes, divorce is painful. But it's less painful than a lifetime of rejection and hurt. And think of what you'll be teaching your son if you stay in a dysfunctional, hurtful relationship. He'll learn that this is what a good marriage looks like, and then he'll be set up to experience exactly what you're experiencing.

Now for your child. Maintain, even improve if possible, your relationship with your son. If you divorce, you will be divorcing your wife, not your son. If you are a good dad, you will still be involved in his life. Don't be one of those guys that wastes away for 20 years because you're "staying because of the kids". Those are 20 years you will never get back. I know, I've lost 15 already.

This is something that won't happen overnight. It won't happen in a month. This is something that will take you a lot of time to do. It's worth it because at the end you will get one of two things: A marriage you can be happy with, or an improved you that is ready to head out and find somebody who will treat you right.

This forum, and the one over at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums are both great resources. Use them.

Good luck!

 

[aeasty]

i feel for you. you are too young to become celibate and live like roommates with your wife forver. your marriage is in danger. does you wife know that? although you may not be thinking this now, you need to set a timeframe in your mind, and if things don't change, or if you don't become indifferent, you're going to have to leave. you are way too young to accept less than mediocrity for the rest of your life. don't have another kid with her.

I have already taken the possibility of a second child off the table for now and made it very clear until we have a healthy relationship this isn't a possibility. She knows our marriage is in danger or atleast I can and will leave if it continues. she thinks I have a HD but I don't think once a week and maybe a little extra on special occasions eg. birthday or back from extended time apart like a 3 week business trip is asking for too much. I made it as clear as I could in recent months that I am not going down the sexless path at 23 and by 24 I will be single if it keeps up that is 9 months away. I know we are young and probably still pretty dumb (well me anyway) but for the life of me I can not see why she doesn't want sex I have only confided here and in one very close mate who's wife recently had a baby as well. if I was to compare other couples our age and with the same life she has it bloody good as he put it I might not make millions but I make more then enough to provide a house and nice things and have money left over she doesn't have to work, my job is 100% secure and I do it out of love even tho it stresses the Christ out of me and I actually hate it. I do all the house work now and if I don't the cleaner picks up the slack, I try and surprise her often with flowers and chocolates or something nice she has wanted and all I get is a thank you and maybe a hug. recently she use an excuse I don't feel sexy to which ever since I have been complementing her and have also tried giving her sexy items and clothing which is never worn even telling her she looks sexy she has had other guys hit on her while out with friends. And I look after our son who I love very much and I do all the hard stuff with like the 4am or earlier feeds and soothing at night the only time she has to is when I am away for work which is not very often and even then I have limited it to no more then 4 nights in a row. Just out of curiosity after typing all this does treat them mean keep them keen work?

 

[Hicks]

Attraction is a funny thing. Aitrus gave you excellent advice. Read and reread it until the attidude he has is the attidude you have. You cannot, repeat cannot have a sexual marriage until you have this attidude.

Now, back to attraction being a funny thing. You asked your wife "what can I do to make you want more sex". That is the worst thing you can do to make a woman attracted to you. The second worst thing is doing all the things on her list, and the third worst thing is doing the additional hoops she adds to her list. You are becoming her trained dog, and she is not attracted to trained dogs.

What you have to realize is that in your marriage, the needs of the individual are the only thing that matters. This is your wife's attidude. Her needs matter, your needs don't matter. This is why she's not sexual. She is asserting herself over you in the way a woman can do it (since she cannot physically assert herself over a man).

Wouldn't your life improve greatly if you lived for yourself and your son and did not have to bother trying to do anything for your wife? Wouldn't this free you of pressure and headache? You could come and go as you please, do as you please, with your own individual desires as your guide. She does not have to be the enemy and can be welcome to participate in the life you want to create.

Take a page from her book and live life on your terms... When she starts complaining, mention in a happy way that this is just the nature of your marriage... we don't meet each other's needs around here.... If she wants that to change you are more than willing to start working on a marriage where we both meet each other's needs as a priority... And to let you know if she wants a marraige like that.

 

[Anon Pink]

I have to disagree with the "live for yourself" mentality. Mr. Pink is a highly closed off person who is not naturally affectionate and NEVER compliments. Those are HIGH on my list of emotional needs.

You're right in that he ought to stop thinking he'll get laid if he completely his list of chores, though. But he also won't get laid if her ignores her needs for emotional connection.

 

[aeasty]

Wow, so your wife is masturbating, getting caught masturbating no less, but still makes excuses to not have sex with you? Your wife was a shy virgin when you met her and now 4 years later sex went from so so to awful after her first pregnancy.

I like that you haven't let this go for so long. I really like how you have asked her what YOU can do to help and then followed through. I don't like her excuses, and they are gals, phony and complete BS!

I am 50 and have a bad back and I tell my husband I need a massage to loosen those muscles so I can do all the arching I like to do when we have sex. I do my daily exercises just so that I can painlessly and easily continue in any sexual position that strikes my fancy. AND I asked for and got a sex swing for my birthday just for those times when my back is really not cooperating!

Your wife is young and doesn't understand much about her sexuality and sure as shooter doesn't understand about a mans sexuality.

First, go to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and print out two copies of Emotional Needs Questionnaire. While at that web site, you will find explanations FOR women about understanding a mans need for sexual love. We women don't see a mans sexual desire as his way of seeking and accepting love. We see men as poon hounds, our husband included. Until that perception get corrected, she will continue to put you off.

Secondarily, you've got something really positive to work with in that she masturbates. That means she has a sex drive! What needs to happen is to discover why her sex drive is not directed toward you.

Is she able to orgasm with you? A lot of women have a hard time getting an orgasm with their husbands, mostly this has to do with shame and fear and not being able to embrace their sexuality fully.

Will she give you directions and hints about what she likes? harder, softer, further down... That kind of stuff? Does she enjoy oral sex?

Last on the list, your appearance. Be clean, shave, brush your teeth, and wear cologne. Unless she has stated she doesn't like men in cologne, most women dislike the scent of a man unless she is ovulating.

Dont allow this sex refusal to continue. It is a big problem in a marriage and it has to be viewed as a couples problem where you BOTH are honest with each other in order to find ways to solve it and be happy together.

Yes she does and when it 1st happened it was a major blow! she used to orgasm regularly not always from sex but from oral and a lot of the time before our son I would barely get her pants off before she flooding the bed so to speak but now she doesn't want me around.

My hygiene has always been good I shower twice sometimes three times a day due to gym I have always shaven including down there since I was about 15 and a girl that gave me a bj wasn't into the hair and I found out most aren't since then I always try and take care of my body I go to the gym 3 to 4 times a week normally 2 weight sessions and 1 to 2 cardio session I live in Queensland in Australia so deodorant is a must and because of my corporate job I wear cologne everyday and my teeth are perfect apart from one filling I got when I was 13 but it is white and have brushed flossed and mouth washed twice a day ever since

I don't believe she is embracing sex fully as I said in the OP she only likes it in the same position and I have tried to change it up a little even just having her legs open in the missionary is too painful to her let alone being on top or anything else and I will be trying that marriage builders questionnaire hopefully she will to.

 

[aeasty]

Aitrus - I like a lot of what you are saying especially the happy/needs list and I am willing to walk away she has always had a very different view of what marriage is compared to me hers is a religious view.....to me its a piece of paper that I threw a party for and spent a lot of money on havening a bunch of people I don't like around. I am sorry but I am pretty blunt when it comes to religion (I had 8 years of it forced down my throat) I have seen a lawyer about divorce and in Australia its pretty easy, you separate for a year and then file, with our son however she is entitled to 28% of my wage which is fine with me and she will most likely get the house, the more expensive car and all the furniture to which its all money and I really don't care it can all be replaced in time and at the moment it is on my side. I will always be apart of my sons life and I would demand at least 50% custody he is still young and I know it would be better if we do split to do it before he gets older and make things more complicated

 

[aeasty]

Hicks - Well as of tonight the list is gone I will still tell her I love her and how I find her attractive because I do, And I am going to Quote you When she starts complaining, mention in a happy way that this is just the nature of your marriage... "we don't meet each other's needs around here" I know her love languages are words of affirmation and gifts. me on the other hand acts of service and touch or whatever its called not just sex but intimacy

 

[Hicks]

Good.
There are various approaches you can use but they all require a certain underlying attitude which you seem to grasp:
-- A husband and wife have to meet each other's needs in a marriage
-- If I meet my wife's needs and she refuses to meet my needs, then she is choosing not to be a wife to me as I define what a wife is.
-- I will teach her what my idea of marriage is (first bullet point) and I will point out that my needs are sexual needs (as a man that is who I am)
-- I will give her the choice to be this type of wife or not

Now, it is a fine art whehter you choose to meet her needs or to withhold.... You only withhold after you know you are either doing a good job meeting her needs to allow her to understand the difference between having her needs met and not having them met. I gave my advice based on the assumtion that you have been meeting her needs all along.

Now, having said that, if you are going to withholld, and her LL is "words of affirmation", then make sure you don't say you love her and you find her attractive. Instead, tell her that the door is open for you and her to create a mutually fulfilling marriage if that is somethign she wants to do.

 

[aeasty]

I have decided to be a bit hot and cold today just to let her know I am pissed off but I still here for now. Today has been one of the best days in a very long time for me I called in sick to work early and then I went and hung out with a mate and went motorbike riding and didn't answer any calls or texts just had a me day. When I got home she started having her normal hissy fit cause I wasn't doing everything and I left the house early around 6:30am and didn't say a word to her all day but I got to use your line Hicks "we don't meet each others needs around here" she was so angry and all I didn't was pick up our son and started making his dinner after I bathed him and put him in bed she came to suck up a little and we had a brief talk about 10 minutes before she left in a huff to watch tv she asked me what is my problem today and I told her "I feel you have been a very lazy wife" to which she responded " Its pretty hard to get anything done when you are looking after a baby all day" and I told her "no its not, yes there are some days when he can be a real handful but most days he isn't. You just don't get to sit on your ass all day and play on your ipad or phone!" (facebook and all those social network things she basically lives on) she claimed she doesn't do nothing all day and when I asked her what she does she said she watches him. I cook all his food for him and I know its slack but I only cook for us about 3 to 4 times a week and the rest is take-out usually (unless she has some crazy urge to make some elaborate chef meal and buy a whole heap of crap to do it) but when I asked her "how is it when I'm watching him a few days a week I can still manage to clean the house up, do the laundry, play games with him, do the yard work, and cook his meals or at least a couple" she that is when she had the huff and walked away I told her as she was walking away not to have high exaptation's of getting everything she wants anymore without sacrifice.

 

[aeasty]

I am going to try and talk to her again in half an hour (just letting her cool off or absorb it all whatever she needs to do so I'm not just putting it all at her in one big hit) I am thinking I will say this after I tell her we need to talk "For a long time now you haven't been meeting my needs in this marriage and taking alot. I am not going to be doing this still at Christmas. (figured that is a good dead line 6 months) Untill you start to meet my needs in the marriage eg. do some things for me to show me you love me and we have some intimacy back in our relationship don't expect your need to always be filled and I and going to be taking more time for myself so if you want to plan anything on the weekend from now on let me know a week in advance and I will see if I am available"

Should I change anything or should that suffice (normal I would get my co worker to proof read my stuff but its kinda personal)

 

[Hicks]

Great job! - response to post #15

In response to post #16, I don't think saying that is necessary right now.

I would spend a little time being the guy in post #15, gradually making it clear to both of you she is either the wife you need or not the wife you need.

 

[PHTlump]

You need to read Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

If you are working full time, then coming home and doing all the housework, cooking the meals, and watching your son while you're there, then you're not being a husband. You're being a butler. And women aren't attracted to butlers.

So, you have to stop doing that. Do your part. Yes, you should help watch your son while you're home. That means help. Not take it over completely.

I would go light on your conversations. Just change your actions. Keep your words to a minimum. Let her know the way things are. But you're not going to debate your wife into a change of heart. She will only change when your actions make it clear to her that she must change, or she will lose you.

Also, I don't recommend the books that are books for couples. Your wife has told you what she wants from you and you've done it. And her behavior didn't change. So stop taking that route. Work on you. You need to change. That's when she will change.

So, don't say anything else. Just go to Married Man Sex Life (MMSL) and run the marriage action plan (MAP). And don't tell your wife about it. Keep a little mystery.

Good luck.

 

[Faithful Wife]

aeasty said: "I am thinking I will say this after I tell her we need to talk "For a long time now you haven't been meeting my needs in this marriage and taking alot. I am not going to be doing this still at Christmas. (figured that is a good dead line 6 months) Untill you start to meet my needs in the marriage eg. do some things for me to show me you love me and we have some intimacy back in our relationship don't expect your need to always be filled and I and going to be taking more time for myself so if you want to plan anything on the weekend from now on let me know a week in advance and I will see if I am available" "

I think it is fine to say this, but you can say it without:

*sounding snarky or mean

*sounding like it is a threat (it shouldn't be, it should be a statement of fact)

*sounding like you are angry...if you are throwing down the "I'm outta here if you don't change" card, then you are at the end of the line and there should be no use for anger...just work it out, or not.

Also...I hope you are careful when you are telling her that she needs to start meeting your needs too, that you make it very loving and positive in tone and words. The point is, if behind your words is "I hate you because you don't want to f*ck me!" then that crying, whiny voice is going to come through loud and clear. Instead you want a tone that says "I'm so concerned about the future of our marriage if we have lost our intimacy, and I want to work on that before it is too late, please join me".

I'm offering these tidbits because I don't want you to turn her completely off. You should be focused on communicating your needs, not making demands.

Good luck.

 

[MissScarlett]

Wondering if she perhaps has Post Partum Depression? Although it sounds like shes never been a sexual wildcat - its concerning that she is also not doing hints around the house or with your son, etc. Sounds like she is unhappy and uninterested in everything, not just sex.