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So this thread I am considering this, from the perspective of a man wanting to instruct his sons on how to approach marriage in this day and age. My sons are 15 and 20.

Some of these subjects are beyond debate, although of course by typing them here I am welcoming feedback.

Some of the subjects are very much up for debate, particularly modern views on prenuptuals in this day and age.


My advice to my sons...

Concerning himself:

To always be himself, to pursue his own interests, and be willing to invite dating prospects to share in his interests as he himself is wanting or desiring.

To pursue his own education and career goals with clarity, to avoid sacrificing his future happiness and success for instant gratification today.

To decide and have the vision how marriage and relationship and children fit into such desires and goals. Do not be blindsided by love and then caught off guard, always prepare for the prospect and have a plan, even if just the outline of a plan at this young age.


Concerning dating:

Never to pursue dating in and of itself, but only as a means to get to know a special woman better, and for her to get to know him better.

Never as a means to merely score for sex. A good man addicted to sex with many women, is not better than a man addicted to drugs alcohol or gambling. Also this is the way for a man to lose respect for all women, to see all women as those he would find to merely be seeking quick gratification themselves. For it is a fact that we as humans will find what we are looking for, and we will see what we want to see, as we are all masters of self-justification for what we want to justify.

Whether he decides he is wanting a traditional marriage, or marriage to a career woman, he must be honest with himself and his future woman prospective bride on what he is desiring, and to find in such a woman also the honesty to express what she is desiring.

As well I tell my sons to avoid deliberately seeking out a career woman if they are wanting at all to raise children, as relentless are the demands of raising children and how the selfishness men see often in women is in fact the perfect trait for being such an excellent mother. For instead of resentment as often in a man to give up his "toys" when the children come along, it is the strength and delight of a woman to be selfish for her children. This way is what I have experienced to be the best prospect for success.



Concerning his woman:

She must be his good match, not beneath him and needy and clingy, and not so above him beyond contentment with the choice of his lifestyle and social and economic goals and achievements.

She must be intelligent to the point of matching intellectually. Sexual attraction may ebb and flow, but nothing builds contempt as intelligence sharing the same roof with ignorance, and likewise nothing as fulfilling as having a woman to be a life partner to challenge and discuss and grow with intellectually.

She must be willing to speak for herself with dignity and respect. Tantrums, passive aggresive behavior, yelling, or speaking without thinking, or using many words without substance, these are red flags to avoid.

She must not be sexually promiscuous. I am speaking bluntly, but I tell my sons to avoid a young women with already children out of wedlock, or even to discover they are knowing many men sexually, this is also a red flag to avoid. Understand this is not for any religious reasons, but merely social and emotional and scientific and health reasons. I have raised my sons and daughter to be respecting themselves and their bodies, and they should expect to find companionship possessing such respect as well.

Concerning marriage:

This itself is also deserving it's own thread, but open for discussion here.

In this day and age, it is entirely possible for the good man to lose half or more of everything worked for at the whim of his woman wanting a divorce, such as the result of modern "no fault" divorce.

So much is this, to protect himself, it is my inclination to advice my sons to study prenuptial agreements and laws, and whether he advises himself to pursue such course or not, he needs to not be ignorant of the very real and very cold possiblities of divorce and the devastating financial hit.

But contrast this with my own very nostalgic views, if after many years of marriage, and that if a woman is giving to her man the very best years of her life, which in itself is not just some whimsical belief, but the reality, then absolutely should my sons be committed to protecting and taking care of his woman, and never to merely divorce her or leave her unless provoked beyond reconciliation by some behavior or action on her own part and her bearing the responsibility for, only in this case should divorce be the consideration.

On this subject of marriage and prenuptuals, I am admittidly hesitant and would welcome all good men's opinions and advice on this matter.


Concerning children:

Always they are to be regarded and taken care of, no matter what the financial hit or mental or emotional or social stress.

Always be responsible and seeing children are not mere accidents or liabilities, but the very real results of deliberate actions and behaviors and decision made by my son and his woman.

In short, I am advising my sons to own any and all responsibility for their own offspring, and to seek out only women who will respect and appreciate this responsibility as well.



So these things, briefly typed out for discussion and feedback if anyone is interested.

But as well, I am fiercely interested to what the other good men on this board advise or would advice their own young sons concerning these things.

Even to the point of the many hurting men on this forum, who maybe advise to avoid all women at all costs, but still share your wisdom and experiences, as the young men coming up need to know the successful way in this modern day. :)
 

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Constructing a building requires careful preparation. Before the foundation is laid, land must be acquired and plans draws up.

What is true of constructing a building also applies a successful marriage. Those contemplating marriage need to have a realistic view of both the blessing and the costs of being married.

Constructing a building maybe expensive, but caring for its long-term maintenance is costly as well. It is similar with marriage. Getting married seems challenging enough, however, maintaining a marital relationship year after year must also be considered.
 

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A vital factor is a wholehearted commitment. The idea of a solemn commitment frightens many. But if you really love the person you intend to marry, commitment will not seem like a burden. Instead, it will be viewed as a source of security. The sense of commitment implied in marriage will make a couple want to stay together through good times and bad and to be supportive of each other come what may.

Living up to such a commitment requires maturity, thus, people are advised not to marry until they are " past the bloom of the youth", the period when sexual feelings run strong and can distort one's judgment. Young people change rapidly as they grow up. Many who marry when very young find that after just a few years their needs and desires, as well as those of their mate, have changed. Statistics reveal the teenagers who marry are much more likely to be unhappy and seek divorce than those who wait a little longer. So do not rush into marriage
 

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Do you find it easy to list the qualities you want in a mate? Most do.

However, what about your own qualities? What straits do you have that will help you contribute to a successful marriage? What type of husband or wife will you be?

For example, do you freely admit your mistakes and accept advice, or are you always defensive when corrected? Are you generally cheerful or optimistic, or do you tend to be gloomy, frequently complaining? Remember, marriage will not change your personality. If you are proud, oversensitive, or overly pessimistic when single, you will be the same when married.

Since it is difficult to see ourselves the way others see us. Why not ask a parent or a trusted friend for frank comments and suggestions. If you learn of changes that could be made, work on these before taking steps to marry.

Produce qualities such as " LOVE, JOY, PEACE, LONG-SUFFERING, KINDNESS, FAITH, GOODNESS, MILDNESS, SELF-CONTROL." Modesty and soundness of mind will help you to have wisdom. If you are a man, learn to treat women in a kind and respectful way, while learning to make decisions and shoulder responsibilities. A domineering attitude will lead to trouble.
 

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Imagine two musical instruments, perhaps a piano and a guitar. If they are correctly tuned, either one can produce beautiful solo music.

Yet, what happens if these instruments are played together? Now they must be in tune with each other?

It is similar with you and a prospective mate. Each of you may have worked hard to tune your personality traits as individuals. But the questions now is, Are you in tune with each other? In other words, are you compatible? To be attuned to each other, you and your prospective mate should have similar goals.

What are your goals? For examples, how do you both feel about having children? What things have the first place in your life?

In a truly successful marriage, the couple are good friends and enjoy each other's company. For this, they need to have interests in common. It is difficult to sustain a close relationship-much less a marriage, when this is not the case. Still, if your prospective partner enjoys a particular activity, such as hiking, and you do not, does that mean that the two of you should not get married? Not necessarily. Perhaps you share other, more important interests. Moreover, you might give happiness to your prospective partner by sharing in wholesome activities because the other person enjoys them.

Indeed, , to a large degree, compatibility is determined by how adaptable both of you are rather than by how identical you are. Instead of asking, " Do we agree on everything?" some better questions might be:" What happens when we disagree? Can we discuss matters calmly, according to each other respect and dignity? Or do discussing often deteriorate into heated arguments?

If you want to get married, be wary of anyone who is proud and opinionated, never willing to compromise, or who constantly demands and schemes to have his or her own way.
 

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Do not forget that you are dealing with an imperfect human being. Everyone has shortcomings, and some of these will have to be overlooked-both yours and those of your prospective partner.

Further, a perceived weakness can present an opportunity to grow. People who love and respect each other disagree at times. Could it be both of you simply need to restrain your spirit a little more and learn how to settle matters more peacefully?

Does your prospective mate show a desire to improve? Do you? Could you learn to be less sensitive, less touchy? Learning to resolve problems can establish a pattern of honest communication that is essential if the two if you get married.
 

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I copied these from a book I read.

I don't agree with pre-nup. It shows distrust. I don't want to marry a rich man anyway, and I won't encourage my son to become rich. I just want my son to be responsible and marry a kind woman, have a happy life. And being a parent, I will help my son fly, but I know clearly I can't fly for him. So his life is his life, I want him to have a skill, make enough money to support his family, and be happy. Love him, so I should guide him, but let him fly himself!!!
 

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Something I would add to your list is this, whether sons or daughters...one thing paramount in my mind to teach my children is to take close notice, LEARN, talk about , discover the Love Languages of anyone they are considering for marraige and IF they are not very similar in order, I would warn them troubles may lie ahead, unless they are very sacrifical in nature.

When a woman feels LOVED cause the Man cleans her kitchen & does the dishes (Acts of service) and does not understand his way of feeling loved is Physical Touch, when, for him, Acts of Service are simply not high on his list, these little things can cause alot of turmoil & misunderstanding. Or if she needs "Quality time" -what is most important to her, and he is quite content being a work a holic or traveling alot outside the home, she may not feel her love tank is being filled.

Even our children are born with Love Languages, do we know what they are ? Such an imporant thing, when you marry somenoe who THINKS & FEELS the same in this area, this will provide such solace & peace , the marraige will not feel like work at all, every easy, free flowing, we strive to please each other in the SAME WAY, not having to work against our own natural desires, but lavishing them on to our spouses.
 

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I agree! Learn Love Languages!

One book I would definitely give your sons is Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. from Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach. In fact, send them to his training seminars. He is amazing. This book teaches you to both honor your responsibilities to your wife and family and also honor your obligations to yourself - all through communication.

I would also sign them up for Financial Peace University. Their future spouses will thank you.
 

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She must not be sexually promiscuous. I am speaking bluntly, but I tell my sons to avoid a young women with already children out of wedlock, or even to discover they are knowing many men sexually, this is also a red flag to avoid. Understand this is not for any religious reasons, but merely social and emotional and scientific and health reasons. I have raised my sons and daughter to be respecting themselves and their bodies, and they should expect to find companionship possessing such respect as well.
Okay. . .I won't take issue with your General Advice of finding Mrs. Utopia for your sons. . .I think it's a well thought-out list and a good manifesto for your sons.

But I will explore this one statement - avoiding women who have had kids out of wedlock.

I get it why you are saying that as a guy and father.

I don't know. . .here's the problem with that advice.

Your son(s) all marry "Good Girls". . .well. . .what kind of girl develops sexual feelings, oh, around the age of 12/13 and either:

A. Has perfectly 100% functioning birth control, never making a mistake or having a failure (and yes, there are millions of pill babies, condom babies, rhthym babies, etc., in case you didn't get the memo)
B. Stays celibate for 10-15 years, during prime reproductive yeasr, waiting for Mr. BBW's sons/Mr. Right?

I don't know, BBW. I have had the "good girl." I married a woman like you advised, Dad. And I appreciate the fact my stb-x didn't have a large sexual history behind her. In fact, it was something I very much loved. The problem is the good girl knows how to go without sex whereas the bad girl who made a mistake in birth control (or even had wild years) is a very sexual.

I don't know, Dad. I think I'd take a tramp right now, knowing what I know now, as long as she was faithful to me. I know that's the downside of risk of marrying a tramp - she may cheat.

I think I'd rather have married a woman who was a little bad, a little naughty, you know? Because you know what? A lot of couples fight, I mean really fight, and at the end of day, often, naughty women don't carry the fight into the bedroom.

You can bet generally, the Good Girls do.

Why? Because, hormonally, they need sex as much as the next bad girl. And hubby, while he was a jerk earlier today, well, I need his body tonight (within reason).

This has a potential to be a good thread. . .because it's where generalizations are allowed. I am not sure I agree with your manifesto that your sons all marry Madonna's. I think you may be inadvertantly sabatoging their sex lives and eventually their marriage.

Let them bring home a woman with a belly-button ring, nose ring and wearing something a little trampy and say,

"Dad? Isn't she great?" :)
 

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BTW, I like your advice on never using a woman for your own sexual gratification.

I have told my sons that during the birds and bees lectures/talks.

I remember a monk one time heard a confession from a friend that he had sex with an older woman, that he had sinned in Catholic tradition and was expecting a biblical lecture.

The monk only said, "What you did was wrong - to use another human being for your own gratification. It doesn't matter if it was consenting."

And left it at that.

You have a lot of good advice in there.
 

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Never as a means to merely score for sex. A good man addicted to sex with many women, is not better than a man addicted to drugs alcohol or gambling. Also this is the way for a man to lose respect for all women, to see all women as those he would find to merely be seeking quick gratification themselves.
I will answer the whole advice thing later... But this one point I disagree with enthusiastically.

It sounds like you and I come from different social expectations. I was raised Catholic though. And this was precisely the attitude that was prevalent. It lead to a lot of marriage so that one COULD have sex, confusion about sex, uptightness about sex and finally marriages ending because of weird expectations about sex.

I think that not ALL of society views sex as a thing a man wants to get at all cost and a thing that women must hold onto tightly until he declares his undying love. I would suggest my children find those segments of society that DON'T hold puritanical sexual ideals. I would advocate safe, caring, consentual, responsible and respectful sex partners that are NOT until death do you part. This would even be a great learning experience in terms of fully open communication.

Wanting to have sex is a basic biological desire as well as a hell of a lot of fun. We need to allow our kids to learn how to do it PROPERLY. (And I don't really mean technique though that does not hurt either.) I mean with respect and caring for another's feelings. I don't believe that the desire to have sex with someone represents disrespect OR addiction.
 

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BTW, I like your advice on never using a woman for your own sexual gratification.
Is it acceptable to explore sexuality as a mutually beneficial bit of education? I wonder at this assumption that girls don't want to explore sexuality too and must be "used."

The monk only said, "What you did was wrong - to use another human being for your own gratification. It doesn't matter if it was consenting."
Well I disagree with just about EVERYTHING the Catholic Church has to say about sex right up to thinking that anything someone who has chosen a life of celibacy (aka doing each other in the bum in the cloisters. I lie not) has nothing to say to me about sex in marriage!

But that is me.
 

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I am not a man. I don't even play one on tv. Here is what I hope to educate my children (no distinction gender-wise).

Learn to rely on yourself. From a practical standpoint, learn how to take care of your car, cook, do laundry, get and keep a good job, be fit and healthy mentally and physically. From an emotional standpoint, have enough confidence to know that being alone is better than being forever with the wrong person.

If you want marriage to be until death do you part, know what you are getting into. Take your time. You can always get married tomorrow. Live together. Find out if his leaving his dirty socks on the floor is going to send you around the bend. Find out how well you resolve issues with socks on the floor. Get to know the parents. Is his mother overbearing? Is her father an abusive drunk? Discuss parenting expectations. Get to know each other sexually. Are your drives somewhat compatible? Are you a once a monther getting together with someone who wants it three times a day? Are you wild and crazy and he likes to do it in the dark with a sheet between you? How do you work through that.

Learn about healthy relationships. Read about love languages as the others suggested. Watch the relationships of people who are a little older than you. What do they do right? Wrong?

Don't be in a hurry. Forever is a long time.
 

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Well I disagree with just about EVERYTHING the Catholic Church has to say about sex right up to thinking that anything someone who has chosen a life of celibacy (aka doing each other in the bum in the cloisters. I lie not) has nothing to say to me about sex in marriage!
I don't think monks/priest necessarily choose a life of celibacy.

It's actually a rule of being in the Order and a good one at that.

Look at it this way, vthomeschoolmom.

I get married to my stb-x. I am ministering the masses and I am doing my thing and lecturing my congregation on morals, sin, marriage, salvation and my bit.

Only now add into the mix I have a ***** for a wife and my marriage is on the rocks.

And every week you come to church and I'll tell you what you'd see:

A man up there on the pulpit preaching about marriage who doesn't have a good one himself.

Not only that. . .what if you had a wife who complained that I had to get up and go give last rites at 3 a.m. and couldn't that have waited? After all. . .the ol' geezer was on life support. . .couldn't have that waited?

No. . .I agree with the Church on that one.

No spouses for Priests.

No spouses for Priestesses either.

They don't need that kind of trouble.

And I hope you don't apply that rule to all of your advisors - that they have to be immersed in an institution or problem before you'll accept their advice and input. If that is the case, you'll turn down a lot of good advice from cancer docs, who have never had cancer, chiropractors, who have never had back backs, and lawyers, who have never had legal problems.

Just because the monk didn't have sex, didn't mean his advice was any less wise.
 

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Live together.
Not sure I agree with that too.

Stats show a zero correlation (perhaps a slight negative) between couples who live together prior to marriage and divorce.

We lived together prior to marriage.

I don't think it prepared us for marriage.
 

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I don't think monks/priest necessarily choose a life of celibacy.

No spouses for Priests.

No spouses for Priestesses either.
The Catholic Church can do whatever it pleases, as far as I am concerned. I want nothing to do with them, they are so ****ed in the head.
But that is not the point. You misunderstood THE POINT.

Someone who choses a life of celibacy (the frequent reality of which means that they are doing each other on the down low) has no business giving advice on sexual matters. Period.

Just because the monk didn't have sex, didn't mean his advice was any less wise.
It means his advice is pure theory. One, in my opinion, which is based on a totally backassward view of sexuality. You DO Know that the Church continues to maintain that the ONLY reason, even within marriage, for sex is procreation? Or the openness to procreation?
 

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Before you openly go demonstrating your biases towards the Catholic Church by hurling insults, you should do some research.

The Church has relaxed their position on married couples having sex.

They are allowed to do it for sole pursuit of pleasure.

How about that?

Now, will you be so kind as to admit you were wrong?

I say this and I am not even a practicing Catholic (but study religion and religious history, it's interesting to me). I disagree with a lot of Church position too.

You misunderstand my point. . .a person doesn't have to engage in an activity to give advice on it.

Even though crooks often make good criminal lawyers and judges, I don't think every judge and lawyer should have to have commited a crime to participate in law and punishment.

If we aspired to that, every politician would be a crook. :)
 

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Looks like you had a day off today, or you think fast and type fast.

Do you like to get into fight with women? Looks like you really enjoy it!

I don't.

I enjoy fighting with men!!! Love it.

And I enjoy fighting with my husband, IN BED! love it.

For something, I don't enjoy fighting, I run away!

Now, I am going to run away......................

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN......................................
 

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How come I find I visit the MEN's CLUB the most.

Oooohhmmm, I like to kick men's axxxx.

YEAH, seeing you men's axxxx being kicked by women, YEAH, a lot of fun........................

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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