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Discussion Starter #1
When he left nine weeks ago he took a plastic shopping bag with jocks, socks and a couple of t-shirts.
A week later he came and got some more. But that was it.
He has cars, tools, bikes, parts-so many things here.
I packed up all his clothes and they are sitting on the veranda in garbage bags.
Why won't he come and remove his things? He told my son that he had no room for it where he is staying.

He's asked to go to MC- but basically after the only conversation we have really had in all this time I was told I am to blame for all his misery.
So I don't know whether it's just to make him feel better and he's doing it to look like a 'good guy'.
I'm too scared to ask why.
At the beginning he did not want any councelling at all. I go to IC for me.
I'm trying the 180 and it does help...but every time I pull in the driveway and see all his things I cringe, get angry or cry.

I'd take him back in a minute though- I'm having trouble believing that he didn't love me as much as I'd thought. Noone could fake it that long could they?
I think he's depressed.He is acting like a different person.
How do I handle this? Sorry, I'm just really confused.
 

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My estranged husband did much the same as yours. Even after almost five years, many of his personal belongings remained. Over the years, he would claim a few more of the items. The house was lost to foreclosure recently. And still he wouldn't come get the items which remained. Although he picked up some items one day, he promised to return the following day for the remaining stuff. He never returned the following day. Part of the belongings are now stored.

As for the marriage counseling, my estranged husband only wanted to go in hopes of getting an amicable divorce. I still, to this day, do not understand what was going through his mind. Depression is most likely part of the equation.

Don't dwell on understanding "why". I drove myself silly for the first year trying to figure out "why". Five years later, I still don't have an answer.
 

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*sighs. Thanks for your reply Aug. OMg five years!

its all a bit hard really isnt it?

I think i just might put everything in one of his cars and ask him to come and get it by the middle of next week or I'm having a ebay sale.

Do you think it's worth asking him why he wants counceling now?
 

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Could you rent a storage bin for a reasonable period (2 or even months?), send him the key/ code to the storage area and tell him you won't make any payments after that initial period?

It seems to me that you need to get the physical items out of your line of vision, and it would be best to move them off the property altogether.
 

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*sighs. Thanks for your reply Aug. OMg five years!

its all a bit hard really isnt it?

I think i just might put everything in one of his cars and ask him to come and get it by the middle of next week or I'm having a ebay sale.

Do you think it's worth asking him why he wants counceling now?
It is very hard. For me, I believe it was all part of being in limbo. But, it never made sense. Why leave most belongings behind, but not file for divorce? It's almost like a child leaving home. They leave things and periodically come home and retrieve a few items.:scratchhead: Anyway, don't allow him to do you this way for more than a year. Speaking from experience, it's not healthy. Give him a date, then have a huge yard sale.

Go ahead and ask him what goals does he has for counseling. You really have nothing to lose by asking. However, if he is cheating, don't expect an honest answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i have to sell our home now. and he's supposed to be coming to help fix it to get it on the market.
I can't afford storage atm. Ive just closed down my business.

In our only real conversation regarding us..he actually said "and Im not having an affair or a midlife crisis" I could hear the anger sitting in that.

I just want to get the house organised. And get his stuff away first.

Ill ask him about his motivations for counceling. He had said "Im ready to talk'.

im just a mess today- and feeling very small
 

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He's conflicted and doesn't really want to leave. He hasn't taken his stuff. He wants to go to counseling. Once the relationship is 100% dead, folks have no need for couple's counseling and they usually can't wait to remove their belongings. His property maintains his presence in the home and gives him a handy reason to pop back over from time to time.
 

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He's conflicted and doesn't really want to leave. He hasn't taken his stuff. He wants to go to counseling. Once the relationship is 100% dead, folks have no need for couple's counseling and they usually can't wait to remove their belongings. His property maintains his presence in the home and gives him a handy reason to pop back over from time to time.
I can agree with this to a point. My stbxw wants me gone and talks more about splitting stuff than just about anything else. That may be the difference between one with an affair and one without, but in my limited experience a spouse who is "done" is all about getting things separated.

That said, don't let the stuff sit around for too long. As AUG said, it isn't healthy. You would be giving him what he wants/needs with nothing in return. I don't see a reason to still have any of his stuff once the house is sold and you are in different places.
 

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Could you rent a storage bin for a reasonable period (2 or even months?), send him the key/ code to the storage area and tell him you won't make any payments after that initial period?

It seems to me that you need to get the physical items out of your line of vision, and it would be best to move them off the property altogether.
hmmmm...I think you might be setting her up for credit knicks....you certainly can't make someone else responsible for an obligation you commit to.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Morning-I can't sleep.
Im averaging between three and four hour blocks at the moment.
I've actually torn up my sheet on my bed from running in my sleep.
I'ts ripped right down the middle.
So, if this reply is a little chaotic-It's just because I'm, well, a little chaotic.

I just remembered something else he had said on the phonecall.
He had left his phone at his streetfighting class for a week.
He told me when he turned it on there were so many messages (none from me mind you) It irritated him. Many were from my family-mum, sister, our adult kids, friends-I said sorry-Im not responsible for them-they just love you.

He said 'I just wanted a few weeks to myself. That's it.' He was barely holding it together-I could hear the tears.

I know we have done it so hard-especially this last year.
He hasn't asked to separate anything.
I don't know-guess I'll just put all his bike parts in his truck and clear some space.
I've got some friends and people at church who are willing to come and have a working bee on the house.
I think if he can see I don't want him having all the responsibilities-it would ease some of the pressure for him and make me feel better that at least the house is progressing.
I owe my mum and one girlfriend a fair bit of money for helping me with an expansion on my business so I won't be filing for bankruptcy. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't pay them back.
The house being sold will cover all debts and hopefully get me a new Harley and some cash for a new beginning.
And I'll pay off a loan he had made to contribute to the shops. He wanted nothing more than that he said. Just the debt gone.

It's weird- when we had filled out the bank forms to freeze the mortgage-he was shaking. I had said, 'you know this list of hell...when the house sells it'll all be over.This financial stress. We could have the freedom to do those things we wanted.'

He had nodded and said "its going to be alright ok.'

But something happened between then and the next time I saw him. He couldn't look me in the eye and the anger had come. He has this massive wall up-can't get away fast enough-no eye contact-no hugs like his earlier visits.

We have this stupid physical energy between us. On the first few visits-he would stand close after hugging me and you could feel it-sizzling between us.
But now it's lke he's running away from that-like he doesn't want to remember.

I just miss the bastard.
And his stuff is everywhere waving at me that he's not here.

On a positive note-we are both motorbike riders-I was a big girl and joined two riders in groups in my city yesterday. Im terrified-he's always been my riding partner and we have so many amazing memories. We hadn't been on a ride since April together.
Funny-my bike isn't starting and I'm going crazy-he said it's the battery I'll come and fix it. But I'm not holding my breath. I feel like I'm the one in lock-down now.

On day three-his first visit after he left. He said "i want you to call me if you go on a ride-so I know where you are and that you're ok."

I said "No-I don't need to do that any more."
He dropped his head, small smile and nodded.

He contradicts himself all the time. For every negative -I'm now throwing him a positive. It's getting longer between contact-but I have to admit-the last few times I have been quite neutral in the way I talk to him. He is used to love from me. Not coolness.

LIfe is too hard. We have done it too hard.

Thanks for all your advice- it's nice to have other minds contributing to this mess.
Now-if I could only sleep, hey ? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I can agree with this to a point. My stbxw wants me gone and talks more about splitting stuff than just about anything else. That may be the difference between one with an affair and one without, but in my limited experience a spouse who is "done" is all about getting things separated.

That said, don't let the stuff sit around for too long. As AUG said, it isn't healthy. You would be giving him what he wants/needs with nothing in return. I don't see a reason to still have any of his stuff once the house is sold and you are in different places.
I agree lost- whether he comes home or not-the house is going and so is our belongings. When my son find him staring at the pile of his in garbage bags. He had said "mum said you might need it and because we are moving-she decided to move your things first.'
He didn't say much-just that he had no where to put it and maybe he'd have to throw alot of it out.
I think it did affect him tho-up until now I hadn't shown any signs that I was believing that he may not come home.
Who knows.
I just want it gone. it hurts.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
He's conflicted and doesn't really want to leave. He hasn't taken his stuff. He wants to go to counseling. Once the relationship is 100% dead, folks have no need for couple's counseling and they usually can't wait to remove their belongings. His property maintains his presence in the home and gives him a handy reason to pop back over from time to time.
Thats what I feel...mostly.
Thankyou.
It gives me a glimmer of hope- I know I shouldn't try and hope because it doesn't help the process of becoming stronger incase it isn't like that at all..
But I have trouble believing his justifications in leaving because we had so much love between us.

I think he's just tired of all the responsibilities-like me.
Wish I could run away with him lol

thanks for your words
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ok got all his stuff off the front deck and shoved it into his truck

*wipes hands

grrrrrrrrr going to get pretty and go down the local and listen to the frid night guitarist ALONE!

o god.... *bangs head .....
 

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Once,
Sounds like he's having an MLC. Needs to focus on himself. Can't handle responsibility. Leaving you to clean up his mess and make his decisions.

If you hadn't packed his things up, he would have left them in your house until you did. He's not taking ownership of the consequences of his actions. He left, so why are you stuck packing up his stuff?

Is he helping to clean up and sell the house or is that all on you to? Are you his Mommy or his wife?

Stop rescuing him from himself. He's abandoning you. You deserve better.

Go to MC to hear what he has to say - to open the lines of communication. But be prepared to hear stuff you wish you'd rather not know. And be prepared to speak honestly about how you feel.

Be strong. Good luck. We're rooting for you.

p.s. in case you think I'm being cold, I really am not. I miss my idiot STBXH like crazy and cry into my pillow at night. But that won't change the fact that he left and isn't coming back. Continuing to Mommy him is a guarantee that he'll never come back. Imho, the only thing that really works is a true 180. But don't take advice from me - I'm headed for D

p.p.s. Tell him that he needs to get the rest of his stuff out of the house by X date. Then, if you still find his stuff after that date, feel free to sell it on eBay, give it to charity or throw it out.

p.p.p.s. What are you going to do about "shared stuff" or joint property like furniture, housewares, etc?
 

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ok so he's not conflicted. he's just a shmuck really.

i dont know this guy. 15 years later and he's an alien
It's (not) funny, but just about every post/story here I read contains some variation of this line : "after x years I don't know this person".

I guess we never truly know another person ... And that's what scares me about the future the most. How does one "start over" after learning that awful truth?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
ok this 5 am waking up is starting to really annoy me.
Looks like I've pulled a whatchamacallit in my back..and I was a bit teary again. I slapped myself out of it.

I don't want to 'mummy' him- it was just after the things he said-I didn't want his clothes in my cupboard or on my deck. I wasn't very nice with them either. They are squashed in garbage bags into a car he has to tow away-he was doing it up. He can get rid of all his shed crap and other rubbish.
My clothing is now on his side of the cupboard which is awesome because I have room in there now. :)

I was really strong yesterday-but I'm having replays of things he said- and the anger. He was not him, just his body.

Elvis has left the building.


I don't know if you do ever know someone.. but are we supposed to?
Isn't there a side with thoughts-that are ours and ours alone?

I think did he really lie about our love? Our fifteen years of life?

He had my me, my kids, friends, family fooled.

I actually told him I didn't believe him.
He looked at me like I was a nutta- then dropped his chin when I wouldn't look away.

He came up with the shallowest replies when I asked about moments.

We used to lie in bed and fight over who would die first-he said that he'd have to because he couldn't stand a world without me in it.'


I'm a challenge to live with, but as my daughter said, he use to like it. "You're mothers a Sara Lee cake. Layer upon layer.' he'd tell her.

I have trouble hiding emotions and I know I use to fake happy sometimes just to make sure the mood in the house wasn't affected by me. But hell, life was hard. Life IS hard.

I think when he wakes up from this-life will STILL be hard.
(Ill be sending pictures of me in Paris and sitting on my Harley doing all the things we said we'd do when the business was gone. He'll be bringing up someone else's kids.)
One day-he'll remember.
One day, he will have to face the hurt he's caused.
But I may never know.


I don't like cooking. He took over in the kitchen. He's amazing in there. Once when he came home, music was blaring, I was cooking bolognaise in tap shoes. He laughed so hard. I ruined the floor but it made the meal fun.
He had leant in for a hug and put his forehead against mine, both of his hands on my cheeks, and said with the most gorgeous smile, "There will never be another you."
These are the memories I remember-the love in his eyes.That is real. To me.
I hold that husband close. He's the one we miss.

Now all he wants to do is tell me how free he feels and that everything professed was because he's a 'good guy'. He stayed so long because he was a 'good guy'.
Rubbish!
There is NOTHING good about this guy today.
He turned into the very man he promised he never would.
He broke our family.

MLC- he claims no.
I think he's snapped into some dark place and in the thick of his affair fog.
BUt it's deny, deny, deny on that.
He tells me his motivation for counceling is to be able to tell someone what 'Ive done to him. Great! *eye roll- and throw tap shoe at his nose!

When he makes remarks like that-in my heart I know he's sick.
Abandoning his family would be against everything he is as a person.

My one blow out in this after he came and screamed at me about how he was sick of this family. (He actually said this about the family he's raised.)
I yelled back- YOU know it's wrong that's why you hate yourself so much! You know you loved us and we loved you and we felt it. This is not you! You are a horrible person!

Stress got to me too-things/life can change people, or maybe just bring out a side that is lying dormant.
I have no idea, no answers-it's a painful place.

This man was the hero in our family.
The man I had never put down.
One of his mates is still in shock that he just up and left. He told me in all the years he'd known him-he had never put me down. He used to listen to all the boys whine about their women-but not mine. He only had lifted me up as a person.
And yet here he was crushing me.

In all of this.....that's the hardest...the poison and venom is spewing forth uncontrollably and yes, everything that I had believed in as him and I is being rewritten.

I don't like people thinking bad of me. I love people. And some things coming back through others is so damn degrading to your spirit.
But right now, those are HIS truths. Not mine. He can't justify himself walking any other way but by making me into some kind of monster, I guess.
Sometimes he's believed and I am questioned by my own family on things he's told them. And that hurts more than anything.

I won't be a victim to this-this is my mantra.
(But darn it, sometimes you just are. Grief is a *****. I've had enough of it!)


I can't take this on board; I was and it was leaving me full of guilt and to tell you the truth I didn't want to breathe.
It made me feel defective as a person. Worthless and small.

I know who I am and I am responsible for the way I feel. No one can make you feel anything.
He chose to feel like leaving -and he did.
Is that my fault he had **** inside him he let fester over the years til he ran?
NOPE-you can't meet someone's needs if you don't know you aren't.
Is it my fault he couldn't communicate? Well, maybe to a degree because he was scared to hurt me then. But its a passive aggressive glitch he has. Not me.

Is it my fault he has sex with another person?

NO BLOODY WAY. That one is between himself and God. And I told him this. Let them wrestle it out.

But you have to stop and pull yourself out of this-get mad inside-for this is NOT you.

I have faith that's strong. God loves me. I'm not perfect. Far from it.

I'm a cheeky girl, who tries to laugh at life despite it's pain- who believes in truth and so I go within now, when I get the knot in my stomach that reminds me of what he sees me as now and remember the past the way I saw it, and let my friends confirm that when he looked at me like he did they saw the love was once real too.

I didn't imagine it.

There is a depth of despair I could fall into if I let it get me and some days, some mornings at 5 am, it is almost a super human effort to detach.
BUt you have to.

They are not themselves. This is not the husband or wife you knew.
Don't kid yourself. They are in a place we are uninvited.
Let them wallow around in their temporary euphoria. But it will end. And even when they look happy-don't believe it.

Go watch a show you know they hate. Walk slow instead of keeping up with them. Hug your kids and go take them for a milkshake.
Be thankful there is less washing. Paint you nails, put on make up or grow a goatee if your a bloke-hell, poo with the loo door open. Shave your balls. WHo cares! DO anything, something, to make you smile and be responsible just for you.
It hurts like crazy this. But then each day...you get a bit stronger. Find a bit more of you.

Do you know how attractive it is? If they see you happy-itll do more good than anything. It's a win win even if they dont come back.

You are right-for those betrayed. We don't deserve it. Marriage is work...it takes two to sort out the mess...but only one to f&^K it up.

I have a house that needs major overhauling, stock from a business lying everywhere. No money and I used to have buckets of the stuff. No response from him regarding house details-now he's thrown a tantrum . An uncertain future, and today-a bad back. It's a mess and some.


But God is good.
I guess Im married to HIM now-and he wont let me down.
He wont leave.

The neighbours next door heard my cheating alien hubby yelling at me a few days ago.
They came over and told me that no woman should be spoken to like I was.
And they would also like to help me get my garden in shape.
THey told the other neighbours on the other side and there are a team of people coming to help lift the weeds and my spirit.

It'll be ok.
It just might take a bit.


:Love and peace TAMpeople





disclaimer_ these thoughts of mine are often just that. Ramblings in this mess and could change form day to day, or hour to hour.
As you most probably note in any up and coming posts. :))
So take what you will...but it's just one chick doing it hard like you are and sifting through the ****. Hugs
 

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Discussion Starter #20
omg

I'm so sleepy but get maybe an hour or two before waking up again. Its 3-13 am

I have a sleep disorder_ but its a little worse when I'm stressed.
I walk the neighbourhood, cook, shower, drive and once I woke up three doors down, naked on a neighbours lawn with my cat licking my big toe.
It was three am and there I was streaking back to the house with a ginger ***** chasing me trying to cover my bare bum.

My son has a milder version-he just pees in the washing basket and flushes the banister upstairs.

My mum has it-but she falls asleep if she sees amber lights. She once held up the entrance to a freeway because she was at the lights snoring.

When he did night-shift I didn't sleep.

It's scary and my son hides my car keys now.

But now I'm waking up with fright- but I can't remember dreaming.


I just want a hug I think. I don't know.
Yes, I think that's it.
 
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