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Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

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177K views 205 replies 84 participants last post by  rockon  
#1 · (Edited)
Welcome newbies. I am so sorry that you are here with us now. If you're here, then it's a good chance that your marriage is in big trouble.

If you are a betrayed spouse or think you might be a betrayed spouse let me first say that I know how much it sucks to be where you are right now. Please know first and foremost that the reason that you are here is not your fault. You can't control your spouse as with many things in life but what you can do is control yourself and how you handle yourself when bad things happen.

If you are a disloyal spouse then please know that while you will not get the sympathy that you so crave, what you will get here is good and solid advice to making yourself a better person. I hope you have thick enough skin to stick around and take the comments directed at you and do what's not only right for your spouse and family but for you as well. I commend you for taking what must be a difficult first step by coming here.

Now as to why I am posting this thread-

Recently another forum regular commented to me in a PM how there have been a lot of "returnees" as of late. They came here either initially in other subforums on TAM or directly to this forum and asked for advice regarding either suspicious behavior or because their spouse was likely cheating on them (and some who had cheated themselves).
Some of these posters stayed just a short time worried about suspicions and then returned stating how their spouse was indeed cheating and they didn't believe it at first and wished they listened. Some knew their spouse was cheating but were too scared to take the correct action out of fear of losing their spouse. Some just took a few bits of advice and didn't stay long enough to really understand what to do and how to utilize that advice correctly.


So this thread is not dedicated to giving you advice about your particular situation but rather how to handle the advice you are about to be given on the forum.


The advice you will likely hear will be scary. It will sound counter-intuitive to what you want at times. You will hear words that you never thought you would in context to your marriage like "divorce" or "cheating". The advice given will often be hard to implement and you will also make mistakes doing as such.

The truth is your marriage is already in very big trouble. Drastic times will often call for drastic measures. Also know that often your marriage is often set on a course that you cannot change.
My goal is shared by many of the regular posters here. I am not the one to judge whether or not you should reconcile (R) or divorce (D). I am more interested in getting you to where you are headed faster.

Limbo is hell. It sucks your soul dry. I believe it to be ten times more stressful than getting to an actual resolution, even if that resolution is not what you want.

I am not saying that everyone's advice is perfect. I am not implying we have all the answers. But I can say with confidence, that many of us have experience in similar situations as yours and many of us also have experience generated by becoming regulars to this forum. We have seen quite a lot. We know by experience that there are patterns and scripts in infidelity. We can help you if you take the time carefully consider what we are saying to you and then take that appropriate action.

So I implore you-

don't look to sweep your problem under the rug
don't bury your head in the sand because your problem is not going to go away
listen to what we have to say and take your time implementing it- often we simply react in stressful situations instead of considering options that may be better- and perhaps we can help you find those answers.

Welcome to TAM's coping with infidelity forum- I'm not happy you're here but I will help you as best as I can.



AlmostRecovered


other posters may feel free to link this thread


***Disclaimer***

I am not an owner or operator of TAM
I am not a moderator
This is just my opinion

EDIT: adding some things that should be stickies by Lord Mayhem and Eli Zor to put on the first page:

lordmayhem said:
List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here.

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse
BH = Betrayed Husband
BW = Betrayed Wife
BS = Betrayed Spouse
LS = Loyal Spouse
DW = Disloyal Wife
DH = Disloyal Husband
DS = Disloyal Spouse
fWW = Former Wayward Wife
fWH = Former Wayward Husband
fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
OM = Other Man
OW = Other Woman
OMW = Other Man’s Wife
OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
AP = Affair Partner
R = Reconciliation
D = Divorce
DDay = Discovery Day
STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair
KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
TT = Trickle Truth
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad
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lordmayhem said:
Common Terms/Phrases About Infidelity​

Bunny Boiler - taken from the Glenn Close character in 'Fatal Attraction', boiling her Ex'es pet rabbit. After a relationship break up, the person who wants some kind of revenge, like stalking, or harassment

Cake Eater – taken from the common phrase: Having their cake and eating it too. When the WS wants to have the security of marriage while at the same time, enjoy the affair. When the spouses are separated, the WS is described as cake eating when they try to keep in contact with the WS and give them the idea that the marriage can be salvaged, yet they are still carrying on the affair, in essence, keeping the BS on the line as their back up plan. Another term is “on the fence”.

DDay – Otherwise known as Discovery Day. This is the initial period when the BS actually learns of the affair, either through investigation, being informed of the A, or if the WS confesses to the A. The initial pain that occurs on DDay can be indescribable.

Emotional Roller Coaster – a normal result of being betrayed after D-Day. The BS will experience wide swings of emotion after being betrayed. These feelings can change from moment to moment or day to day, or as the result of having a trigger. One moment, the BS will feel extreme anger towards their WS, then the emotion swings the other way and they will feel love toward their WS and feel they cannot live without them.

False R – False Reconciliation is when the WS has kept in contact with the Other Person (OP) and taken the affair underground and the BS discovers the communication, or when the WS breaks No Contact (NC) and it is discovered. This False R is another DDay.

Fishing – due to the extremely strong addiction that an affair brings, one of the affair partners will break NC and attempt to send out a feeler or “fish” for renewed contact. This can be as simple as a “How are you?”, “Are you okay?”, “Miss You”, etc, which can be sent thru email, text, or a brief phone call.

Fog - The term “affair fog” is often used by experts and affair victims to describe the euphoria that someone involved in an affair feels. Think of how good you felt when you first fell in love. During this period, the cheater will often rationalize their actions in order to minimize their feelings of guilt — often to the extent that they “invent” reasons for having the affair in the first place. Healing from infidelity is impossible while one is in this fog.

The wayward spouse may convince themselves that they are in a bad marriage or that their spouse doesn’t really love or understand them, when that really isn’t necessarily the case. Soon the cheating spouse begins to actually believe these lies that they have been telling themselves and therefore act accordingly by treating their spouse badly yet treating their affair partner in a loving and affectionate way. This is how the affair addiction begins to take momentum.

An affair fog is nothing more than a fantasy created by the affair partners. All the wonderful qualities each partner possess are without flaws, weaknesses or selfishness. The affair partners are under the influence of an addictive drug similar to a teenager in love, and unfortunately it is very difficult to remove them from this fog.

The Affair Fog

Hypervigilance – after the emotional devastation of D-Day, the BS often becomes hypervigilant because of the extreme emotional trauma as the result of all trust being broken by the WS. The BS will be watching the WS intensely, looking for any and all threats.

Hysterical Bonding – from the SI website: Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding.

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build.

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!

Limbo – This is the stage every BS is in on and after DDay. The A can still be ongoing, or it may have already stopped. It’s called limbo because the BS has not moved toward D, and he/she not moved toward R. Only decisive action towards R or D will get the BS out of limbo. Many BSs are in False R because they tried to R too quickly before conditions and requirements for True R are met, and are therefore still in limbo. Being in limbo can be the most agonizing part of discovering an A.

Mind Movies – This is when a BS has flashbacks or imagines what the BS was doing with their AP, such as imagining them texting or talking on the phone, chatting on the computer, and/or imagining their WS having sex with their AP. Some mind movies are actually worse than what happened in reality, while others are tame in comparison to what their WS did with their AP (think porno style sex). Many BSs constantly have mind movies during the intial period right after DDay, or even before DDay when they suspect their WS is having an A. Mind movies can occur at any stage of the healing process, although it seems to occur less and less frequently as time goes by and the R process is going fairly well.

Rug Sweeping – the act of forgiving a wayward spouse for the affair too quickly and trying to reconcile with the WS and move on and put the affair behind them. This is the most common mistake that newly betrayed spouses make. No issues are resolved, and usually results in another D-Day. BS’s and WS’s rug sweep for different reasons. BS’s rug sweep because they are in shock and denial, want to avoid any further emotional pain and desperately want to save their marriages. WSs rug sweep because they don’t want to be held accountable for the affair and suffer any further guilt (if they have any guilt at all), or they want to take the affair further underground.

Going Underground – Upon being discovered on D-Day, because of the addictive nature of the affair and the WS still being in the fog, the WS will often continue the affair using more secretive means

Trickle Truth (TT) - the act of minimizing actions during an affair. The WS will often only admit after many denials, that information that he/she thinks their BS knows about. The truth only slowly trickles out after each new discovery that the BS makes. Each time TT happens, it is considered another D-Day, sending the BS into yet another agonizing incident of pain. For example: A WS will often say their AP is just a friend, then the BS will discover more. Only when confronted with more evidence or further questioning, the WS may only admit to hugging and/or kissing, then when confronted with more evidence or questioning, admit to having oral sex, or a single sexual encounter, when in reality, it was more than a single sexual encounter. WSs will often say the sex was bad.

Triggers - These are events or circumstances that will “trigger” a BSs memory of the A, or even trigger a mind movie. These can range from a holiday, a picture, the way a BS acts, etc. Basically anything that triggers a memory of the A or mind movies. Triggers can be devastating, and reminds the BS of the pain they experienced from the A. A remorseful WS should be helping the BS when he/she triggers. Triggers seem to come less and less often as time goes by. Some will always have some kind of trigger that reminds them of the A. It is completely normal to have triggers.

True R – True Reconciliation is when the WS has kept NC with their AP and it has been verified. This is when the WS is truly remorseful in their actions. They are willingly transparent, and their behavior has changed and they have recommitted to their BS, the marriage, and/or any children. A truly remorseful WS will not rug sweep and is willing to discuss the A without getting defensive. They are willing to be transparent without getting defensive. They are willing to do anything to help the BS regain their trust in them. Both spouses are working on themselves and the marriage.

Gaslighting - Named after a play and 1944 film with Ingrid Bergman. Gaslighting is when the WS will make their BS doubt their own memory and make them feel crazy for believing what would be obvious to most. The BS will want to believe their spouse so much that the WS will be able lie and twist things around so much that the BS will question themselves and feel guilty for making accusations or spying, even when the proof is next to undeniable. This is why most will recommend that the BS obtain irrefutable proof of the affair.

Blameshifting - The WS will justify their decision to engage in the affair by blaming the faults and perceived problems caused by the BS in the marriage. It is important to note that these problems of the marriage will often be exaggerated, made up or the BS will be vilified. Blameshifting is usually the first reaction of a WS when caught and confronted with the proof of their affair. (ie. "If you paid more attention to me I wouldn't have had the affair") Most here believe that marital problems are shared 50/50 but the affair is 100% the fault of the WS as the WS had more honorable actions to choose from regarding marital strife.
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remorse vs guilt:


lordmayhem said:
All credit for this goes to a poster named Fighting2Survive at the SurvivingInfidelity forum. It's a great guide to see if your WS is truly remorseful or just trying to sweep it under the rug.

Image


INDICATORS OF REMORSE
* Actions match words.
* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.
* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.
* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.
* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.
* Answers questions honestly and completely.
* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”
* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.
* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.
* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.


Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal.

Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R.
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nice quote about who would've expected to be cheated on-

lordmayhem said:
Nobody. And not me, that's for sure. Here I thought after a long military career of shift work, many deployments, constant moving around and 21 years, that I thought we were home free and safe and could cruise into our mid life and golden years. Now that its happened to me, I've learned:

  • It does not matter how long you've been married. It could be less than a year to a 40 year marriage. Your spouse can cheat at ANY point in the marriage. There is no safe period.
  • It does not matter how many children you have or how old they are. Your spouse can cheat on you during pregnancy, or when the children are young, or in their teens, or grown up. It doesn't matter if you have disabled children or not either. It doesn't matter if you have no kids or 8 kids. They can and will cheat.
  • It doesn't matter their level of education
  • It doesn't matter at what age you marry.
  • It doesn't matter if you were their first, or if they had many partners before you
  • It doesn't matter if they have enabling, toxic friends or not. But it is more likely if the do.
  • It doesn't matter if they come from a dysfunctional family or normal family
  • It doesn't matter if they're skinny or fat
  • It doesn't matter if you have a good marriage or a bad marriage
  • It doesn't matter if you had good communication or poor communication with each other.
  • It doesn't matter if you've been a good husband/wife

I've learned that ANY marriage is vulnerable if the other spouse compromises their boundaries or is looking to cheat. It's a MYTH that cheating only occurs in bad marriages or if someone's needs are not being fulfilled.
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No Contact Letter

Eli-Zor said:
No Contact Letter - information below extracted from another forum

Once the affair has come to light there must be proper closure to the affair. An agreement must be made between that all contact must end between the Wayward Spouse and the Affair Partner and it must be permanent. There are no if’s, and’s or but’s on this one. This MUST be done for there to be any healing in the marriage. The Wayward Spouse must commit to the No Contact Agreement. Every time the Agreement has been broken the Wayward Spouse must tell the Betrayed Spouse about it as soon as possible. Even if it wasn’t them that broke it, any contact whatsoever should be told immediately. This will build some trust back up in your marriage if this is done every time.

Writing a No Contact Letter to the Affair Partner is the best way to end the affair. This way everything that needs to be said can be with no interruptions and without adding or saying anything you don’t want said. Doing it over the phone or by email allows things to open back up for the OP to respond...and that's what you are clearly trying to avoid.

It should be written in the Wayward Spouse’s own handwriting. It really should be sent certified. Remember, this isn’t a “goodbye forever love letter” but it’s really stating that the affair is over, it was wrong, you were selfish, you love your spouse and family very much and you want to make your marriage work and that you’ll be fighting and working on saving your marriage. You should also state how much you have hurt your spouse and how you are going to spend the rest of your life making it up to them.

You also state how you no longer EVER want the affair partner to contact you in ANY way, shape or form. If the Wayward Spouse does this just for his/her spouse and continues contact with the Affair Partner, then the Affair Partner won’t take the No Contact Letter seriously. It also might not be taken seriously by the Affair Partner if the Wayward Spouse has tried numerous times to break it off with the Affair Partner only to come back time and time again. So, the Wayward Spouse must stand firm and continually tell the Affair Partner how much he loves his wife and wants to work on their marriage.

If you get continued contact the best defense is to IGNORE ALL CONTACT!! The Affair Partner thinks that if they can’t just get the Wayward Spouse to talk to them then the affair will continue on.

After the Wayward Spouse has finished the No Contact Letter, the Betrayed Spouse should read it, if it wasn’t written together. There should be nothing in the letter hinting about missing the Affair Partner, and that the letter doesn’t mean anything, etc.




Here is an example of a No Contact Letter:


Dear [put name here],

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.


Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,


[name here]


Exposure advice:

Exposure targets
Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the OP, pastor. Facebook friends of OP.

Exposure Timing
Exposure should be done immediately. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. There is never any “perfect” time to expose, so don’t delay while looking for an imaginary perfect time.

Expose on the SAME DAY – or as close as possible – in order to achieve a tsunami effect. The affairees should be completely taken by surprise. Doing this creates a powerful hit on the affair and prevents the affairees from pre-empting you

Exposure Tactics

Spouse of affair partner- Give your full name, phone # and email address. Tell the other BS all about the affair, offer to share all evidence with him/her. Offer to follow up to ensure that contact is truly ended and ask the other BS to do the same. The other BS will be shocked when you tell him, so be sure and give your email address and phone # for follow up questions. ALWAYS GIVE THE OTHER BS YOUR WS'S PHONE # IN CASE HE/SHE WANTS TO CALL.

Parents, close family, friends – Tell them about the affair, giving them names, general timelines, etc. Explain you are attempting to save your marriage and would be willing to forgive your WS if he/she ended the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the WS to end her affair. A way to save time is to call both sets of parents and send an email to the other close family and friends. Template letter posted below

Parents of OP. Give your full name and explain why you are calling. Ask them to use their influence with their son/daughter to persuade them to leave your spouse alone. It might also help if the PARENT of the WS calls them too.

Workplace exposure: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee’s supervisors using the template letter posted below.

Facebook exposure: Should be done to the OP’s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the OP’s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM’S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below.

The Fallout
Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!

The goal is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs.

Just say, "I am so sorry you are upset.

Common Exposure Mistakes

Telling the WS that you got the idea to expose on the internet rather than taking ownership of your actions. Then the discussion becomes “who???” When the WS is told it was Marriage Builders, the WS is forever jaundiced against Marriage Builders, which harms future recovery chances. You need to OWN IT. Saying somebody told you to do it does not work for 5 year olds and it won’t work for you!

Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.


Doing trickle exposures. Meaning exposing to just a few people but not to everyone that could have an influence. Trickle exposures are a disaster because they are not enough to kill the affair but just enough to infuriate the WS enough to come after the BS. So the exposure essentially only served to beat down the already beaten BS for no benefit.

Eliminating exposure targets because that person “has no influence over my WS” even though this is a person with long history over the WS. Such as a mother or father. Such targets cannot be dismissed on such a subjective basis because the BS CANNOT PREDICT WHO WILL OR WON’T HAVE AN INFLUENCE OVER THE WS. Sorry, but unless you are psychic and your name is Madame Cleo, you don’t know. Many WS are estranged from a parent, sibling, pastor but that is not a knock out factor.

Threatening to expose. Using exposure as a threat only serves to forewarn the affairees and cause them to go further underground. All you have achieved is to give the enemy your battle plan so they can come back and kick your rear tomorrow. It also gives them an opportunity to pre-empt you and tell others you are “crazy” “jealous”. Then then when you do expose no one will take you seriously. Threatening to expose is the equivalent of giving your battle plan to the enemy. Don't do that!
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#88 ·
why don't you ask a Mod to make this thread sticky?
 
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#94 · (Edited)
Telling Others about Your Partner's Affair

Ouch ! regarding exposure advice.
If /When you discover your partner is having an affair. It's a shock. You are in shock.Emotions flood or you numb out. It's worth taking some time and getting support before making any big decisions.
Telling people around you that your partner is having an affair is a big decision . It's worth considering the consequences. I work with a lot of couples after an affair. The Betrayed Spouses who did tell everyone, tend to wish they haddn't.
 
#95 ·
SPRelationshipCounselling said:
Ouch ! regarding exposure advice.
If /When you discover your partner is having an affair. It's a shock. You are in shock.Emotions flood or you numb out. It's worth taking some time and getting support before making any big decisions.
Telling people around you that your partner is having an affair is a big decision . It's worth considering the consequences. I work with a lot of couples after an affair. The Betrayed Spouses who did tell everyone, tend to wish they haddn't.
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exposure advice is for those who are trying to destroy/disrupt an affair as you can't even fruitfully get to that counseling stage in the first place until the affair is over and the spouse comes out of the fog

personally I didn't have to expose (excepting the OMW, which I think always deserves to know), I am one of the lucky few

while I don't think you should jump right to exposure in most cases, I do think in most cases of exposure on this board, it was evident that it needed to come out to bring the affair to light
 
S
#96 ·
I just wanted to say that I found this forum more by luck than anything else, and it has quite honestly saved my marriage. I was in utter despair when I found my husband of 39 years , who I honestly thought was my soulmate had been cheating on me for almost a year. I read this forum for newbies and it could honestly been written for us!!! He was most definitely in a 'Fog' that nothing it seems could get him out of. He was prepared to give up EVERYTHING and EVERYONE for HER. It took a devastating turn of events to 'snap' him out of it. He left his mobile phone connected to his handsfree in his car by mistake , and I picked up.... heard them have sex in the most graffic detail whilst in the back of our car!!! Suddenly he could not lie or talk his way out of this one , and finally had to own up to me what he had been doing. The 'fog' lifted and he realised what a complete Bastard he had been to me , and is so full of remorse and disgust at what he has put me through. It is early days , but we have read through this thread together, talked , cried [lots] and are now in counselling. The advise given on here is spot on, and I read and re-read it to help me through difficult times
 
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#97 · (Edited)
Below are posts between waywards on a pro affair site. These waywards are actively involved in affairs , one had a D day and simply took it underground before her husband caught her again:

I have taken select extracts to highlight to you the BS spouses why you should pay close attention to, LISTEN to our advice and take harsh tough steps to protect you, your marriage and your family.

Those in affairs have little to no concern for the damage and hurt they are doing to their spouse and family.

They lie, deny, gaslight, cheat and practice every act of deception they can to protect their affair and to undermine their spouses.


Almost a year after my first Dday my H caught me again. Apparently he's been recording me at home and who knows where else and got a conversation between me and MM. I had no idea he has been suspicious and obviously wasn't being careful enough but WTF!!! I told my H that it isn't physical but that we have been talking lately. I am going to DENY DENY DENY any sort of physical relationship. No matter what. My H is livid right now but because we are very busy and consumed with work we've decided to put this discussion on hold for a week or two. He has actually physically threatened my MM but I think he is just mad and I don't think there's any real truth in them. At this point out marriage is completely up in the air and I don't know where we will go from here.


My first dday was my fault. One of our meetings at a hotel room my MM was running late so I paid. On my credit card. STUPID. well long story short.. my H saw it on my bank statement. All hell broke loose of course. I have been sooooooo careful since. But never woulda thought he would record me. Still in shock
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My BF is technologically savvy and clearly could set up any and all of these devices.

But you know what? If he did, I'd leave him in a second. I know that sounds crazy, but that is such an invasion of my privacy. It's one thing to read my emails or text that is sitting right there, but voice and video recording? That's so crazy and gross, I'd be gone.

If you are that f*****g suspicious, how about talking to your partner first. If communication is that crappy, that's probably why your partner is stepping out in the first place.
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I totally agree with you XXXX.... I was horrified when my H told me he recorded me. I told him he absolutely invaded my privacy..IN MY OWN HOME. I feel completely uncomfortable now at home. It makes me so mad. Sometimes I even think about leaving him just because of it. But again.. my daughter
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If you are that f****g suspicious, how about talking to your partner first.

As if the cheating partner would tell the truth .
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They are shocked that they can be spied on , seem to think that their right to privacy to continue the affair outweighs their abuse of the love and trust of their spouses and the love of their family. To top it all its all their BS fault.

They conveniently forget 50% of the marriage problems are theirs
100% of the affair and the degradation of the marriage relationship due to the affair is theirs.


Important Tools for BS:

VARs, keyloggers , apps to monitor smart phones , a clear head and your fear of losing your marriage , use this fear to take the steps to shine a spot light on the affair
 
X
#102 ·
Eli-Zor said:
Below are posts between waywards on a pro affair site. These waywards are actively involved in affairs , one had a D day and simply took it underground before her husband caught her again:

I have taken select extracts to highlight to you the BS spouses why you should pay close attention to, LISTEN to our advice and take harsh tough steps to protect you, your marriage and your family.

Those in affairs have little to no concern for the damage and hurt they are doing to their spouse and family.

They lie, deny, gaslight, cheat and practice every act of deception they can to protect their affair and to undermine their spouses.

















They are shocked that they can be spied on , seem to think that their right to privacy to continue the affair outweighs their abuse of the love and trust of their spouses and the love of their family. To top it all its all their BS fault.

They conveniently forget 50% of the marriage problems are theirs
100% of the affair and the degradation of the marriage relationship due to the affair is theirs.


Important Tools for BS:

VARs, keyloggers , apps to monitor smart phones , a clear head and your fear of losing your marriage , use this fear to take the steps to shine a spot light on the affair
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The snippit from the women who said she was going to be more careful with her affair triggered a conversation I had with my tdoc. Her point was that now I (we all) are stuck with this mistrust. We know they have cheated and now that they know (We know) they can take things underground *Buy a tracphone for example to avoid smartphone apps or at least not have a bill you can monitor. They can make it a rule to talk when they are outside the house / car or (ugh) at a hotel. You can hire someone to follow them I suppose but at some point it comes down to asking yourself if you want to stay in a relationship where you don't have trust. Can you ever trust again and if so how? The how part is very difficult. I'm still wondering how anyone does it. Is it time heals all wounds? Is it some conversation or therapy that does the trick?

The point that was made to me was simply this. You can follow her. You can bug her phone. You can do whatever but she (or he) can continue to do this. You can't control her but you can decide to leave or decide to work on it. I do agree about the spotlight on the affair. In my case its having a lot of couples therapy devoted to that topic. Maybe my wife can go to couples and lie to my (our) faces? I think when we get to that point I'm out of here.

I started looking at all the people I know who were the "other women" or other man in second marriages. I added several couples that I know had affairs and broke up. Its a hell of a lot of people. I think the people selling divorce or depression meds and therapy are going to be making a lot of money.

I think we live in a very screwed up society.
 
#101 ·
imagine my disappointment when I figured it out and realized that people weren't telling me to go get some ice cream
 
#109 ·
I'll just repost what I posted on another thread with a few additions:

  1. Have a VAR on you at all times, if you can, at least have a witness with you when you go home. Even better would be to have a VAR on you and have a witness.
  2. If she threatens you that she will call the cops on you, tell her calmly that you will have her charged with false reporting if she tries to lie to them about threatening her or hitting her. Hand her the phone and/or let her call if she wants to.
  3. If she still ends up calling the cops....keep your cool! Do not raise your voice. Do not throw things around or mess up the house. You won't see them drive up because they will park the cruiser a couple of houses down the street. They WILL listen first before knocking. This is standard procedure. So it would NOT be a good idea to be yelling before they knock on the door.
  4. When they knock on the door or ring the doorbell, YOU be the one to answer the door. In a calm voice greet the officer and ask what the problem is. I guarantee you that the cops are on alert and will be looking for a possible fight from you because domestic violence calls are one of the most dangerous calls, and many cops have been killed going into these situations. With you answering the door with a smile and a calm voice, it WILL immediately lower the tension and they will be more likely to listen to you.
    This is usually a 2 officer call, and one of them will be interviewing you and the other will be interviewing your wife, but you will be in the same room so they can watch each others backs. When you answer the door, DO NOT have anything in your hands, even the VAR. They will be watching your hands. Keep them in the open where they can see them. Do not put your hands in your pocket. If one officer is sent, do not be surprised or argue if they temporarily place you in handcuffs, this is for officer safety, because they don’t know if you’re violent or not. Once you show you are calm, non violent, and most importantly, not a threat, then they will likely remove the handcuffs.
  5. If she lies to the other officer and attempts to provoke you in front of them. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT respond. Remain calm!!! The very worst thing you can do is get into a shouting match with her while they are present. Tell the officer calmly that you have a VAR and you can play it for him and ask him/her if you can get it out of your pocket or where ever you have it. Then play it to them to expose her lies.

If you start arguing with the cops or with your WW and raising your voice, moving around, getting defensive, you are raising the tension and looking like the primary aggressor and a threat. Then they will put you in cuffs. And of course during this time the WW will be crying and putting on a show.
 
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