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FWIW... regarding indications of genuine remorse I once put together a short list on the subject of determining if your WS was being genuine and remorseful which some found useful... It's also along the lines of what lordmayhem shared...

____________________________

REMORSE

There is no infallable way to know if what you are seeing is genuine remorse or not.

What I would start with would be your gut... that's where it all begins. No one knows your spouse quite the way that you do. Do you sense genuine remorse?

As with all people that mislead, lie or decieve there are always subtle non-verbal cues (facial expressions) which can give you some indication whether the person is being genuine...

People who fake remorse tend to show a greater range of emotional expressions and swing from one emotion to another very quickly - if the base emotional responses are grouped into three categories; Good (happy) /Neutral (neutral, surprise). /Bad (sadness, fear, anger, contempt, disgust) a person intentionally decieving you will tend to swing from category to category very quickly. Particularly from good to bad or bad to good (skipping nuetral). The phenomenon is referred to as emotional turbulence - They will also speak with more hesitation.

It might also bear mentioning that the saying about people lying not looking you in the eyes, is actually completely false in the case of WS's. You will find that they go out of the way to look you dead in the eyes while lying to you.

study

There are also some qualities/behaviors to look for when someone is genuinely remorseful...

They are signs/actions that someone will commonly exhibit (coping mechinisms) when internally healing from an action or decision that they have made which they feel was wrong... These are obviously not hard cold "musts" for a spouse to qualify as genuinely remorseful... But, I hope this gives you a "roadmap" of some indicators....

1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".

2. A remorseful spouse is openly accountable for their actions and seeks to identify and make changes to insure that this behavior does not reoccur. (They feel genuine pain, therefore they seek to prevent this pain from reoccuring. (normal human response to pain - AVOID IT) (No genuine pain = No reason to seek a solution to avoid repeating that pain).

3. A remorseful spouse will seek to "work", not only on themselves but on general life responsibilities. A remorseful spouse faces the responsibilities of thier day-to-day life and will often show increased motivation to meet those tasks. The work is often approached in a more "humble" way by the remorseful spouse.

4. A remorseful spouse will not object to limitations (i.e. transperency) set by the faithful spouse as a result their actions and in an effort to promote the healing of the violated trust.

5. A remorseful spouse faces the pain they have caused. A remorseful spouse will allow you to express the intesity of the feelings and hurt their actions have caused without justifying, minimizing or blame-shifting.

6. A remorseful spouse seeks forgiveness and respects the process of forgiveness often takes time. They will not be impatient or pressure the injured spouse to say "I forgive you" and will never exhibit a "get over it!" attitude.

Sorry you are all here, but hope this proves useful to you on your journey.
 

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Thanks AlmostRecovered. Great, clear writing. Well placed references. We are also grateful to Lord Mayhem for his wisdom. Morituri, and aug are also very proactive in airing their views. One feature you may like to add is private messaging. Good work and help, AR. This should be stickied!
 

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It's been a week. Bump for the newbies who are at least willing to listen to the collective wisdom of all those who have been through this. The experience here has been dearly paid for. No, we're not professional counselors with a piece of paper framed on a wall, just people who've learned and read what usually works and what usually doesn't.

Take it or leave it. Its up to you.
 

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I have a question for you about the complete transparency/remorse.
My H (after moving back in after a 3 month separation) left his phone out all the time, left papers printed of back and forth conversations between he and the EA (PA, on the weekend prior to his return, most likely...we live 12 hours from her and they met halfway for the new years eve weekend).

I DID in fact read the emails he left access to on the computer, left text messages I read, letters to each other he left in the suitcase in my closet for me to find. I normally have a very short fuse, but because he was gone for 3 months, I really worked on some things that needed fixing....my threatening divorce if I didn't get my way, my being critical of him constantly....I had issues. I worked on them and they are truly dealt with. But because of this, I learned everything he left out, but I never 'confronted' him. I believe he expected it (he had EA many many many years ago ...last time we had a 2 year old....this time we have a 2 year old again. I think it is a trigger because I end up ignoring him for the pregnancy/baby/toddler ...not sexually ignoring, but positive attention ignoring and this time he had his vasectomy reversed because I wanted another baby.) So I definitely am taking my share of responsibility ...I let him down. I don't think I 'deserve' the affair, but I understand how it did happen and I do want a fresh start.

What I would like to know is....I feel my non-confrontational husband's 'way' to be transparent was to leave everything out for me to see. Then he waited and I never blew up. Never even mentiioned it. I think he lost respect for me at that point and started acting distant and sometimes mean. Prior to Valentine's Day he 'forced the issue' (in my opinion) by suggesting he would need to go to see her for a 'week or two' for her 'recovery' (she had surgery). I said absolutely not. He said 'I can go for a week or two or for good'. To which I replied 'Do you want to be with HER or do you want to be with ME'. I said this maybe 10 times in response to anything he said. He didn't go. That night he was VERY close to me, huggging, kissing...when he had come home earlier for lunch I said 'you know you can't have both of us and I can blow up at you about it, but I would prefer you just do what's right. Do you NEED me to give you the ultimatum?' He said no...and things were good for a bit after that...really was a turning point overall.

BUT...I have this feeling that the reason the contact goes on daily on the phone/text is because I never blew up or never said 'look at all this stuff I know that you left out'. Partly because he kind of insinuated in the beginning that he can't 'feel controlled' and he doesn't need a 'monitor' instead of a spouse. It's like he SAYS he doesn't want me to snoop and confront, but it's also like for us to get better and for him to let go of her I almost feel like he NEEDS me to say I snooped and confront him with every thing he said and did. Does that make ANY sense??

Does anyone else here have a spouse that left stuff out either on purpose or subconsciously ?
Is that for 'discovery' and did it help the recovery to discuss it?
 

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I have a question for you about the complete transparency/remorse.
My H (after moving back in after a 3 month separation) left his phone out all the time, left papers printed of back and forth conversations between he and the EA (PA, on the weekend prior to his return, most likely...we live 12 hours from her and they met halfway for the new years eve weekend).

I DID in fact read the emails he left access to on the computer, left text messages I read, letters to each other he left in the suitcase in my closet for me to find. I normally have a very short fuse, but because he was gone for 3 months, I really worked on some things that needed fixing....my threatening divorce if I didn't get my way, my being critical of him constantly....I had issues. I worked on them and they are truly dealt with. But because of this, I learned everything he left out, but I never 'confronted' him. I believe he expected it (he had EA many many many years ago ...last time we had a 2 year old....this time we have a 2 year old again. I think it is a trigger because I end up ignoring him for the pregnancy/baby/toddler ...not sexually ignoring, but positive attention ignoring and this time he had his vasectomy reversed because I wanted another baby.) So I definitely am taking my share of responsibility ...I let him down. I don't think I 'deserve' the affair, but I understand how it did happen and I do want a fresh start.

What I would like to know is....I feel my non-confrontational husband's 'way' to be transparent was to leave everything out for me to see. Then he waited and I never blew up. Never even mentiioned it. I think he lost respect for me at that point and started acting distant and sometimes mean. Prior to Valentine's Day he 'forced the issue' (in my opinion) by suggesting he would need to go to see her for a 'week or two' for her 'recovery' (she had surgery). I said absolutely not. He said 'I can go for a week or two or for good'. To which I replied 'Do you want to be with HER or do you want to be with ME'. I said this maybe 10 times in response to anything he said. He didn't go. That night he was VERY close to me, huggging, kissing...when he had come home earlier for lunch I said 'you know you can't have both of us and I can blow up at you about it, but I would prefer you just do what's right. Do you NEED me to give you the ultimatum?' He said no...and things were good for a bit after that...really was a turning point overall.

BUT...I have this feeling that the reason the contact goes on daily on the phone/text is because I never blew up or never said 'look at all this stuff I know that you left out'. Partly because he kind of insinuated in the beginning that he can't 'feel controlled' and he doesn't need a 'monitor' instead of a spouse. It's like he SAYS he doesn't want me to snoop and confront, but it's also like for us to get better and for him to let go of her I almost feel like he NEEDS me to say I snooped and confront him with every thing he said and did. Does that make ANY sense??

Does anyone else here have a spouse that left stuff out either on purpose or subconsciously ?
Is that for 'discovery' and did it help the recovery to discuss it?
He's testing you by leaving the stuff for you to find,seeing if you will bring it up or he's just a plain ole ass-hole rubbing your nose in it. This is about what YOU need to heal on YOUR terms not his, you want to bring it up and talk about it, he better damn well be willing to do anything you ask with out question, show true remorse, to me him suggesting that he go see her and stating that he can go for two weeks or for good really shows he has no remorse, you could have said "Ok for good sounds good to me, I'll pack your crap and dont ever come back" and started packing his things, instead of threats show him you mean action by action not words!!! you mentioned he lost repsect for you, well he dosent have any for himself how is he going to have any for you.

No you didnt deserve this, its not pay back, no one does.
Stand up for yourself, no one but you is going to fight for you!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
that's an overall internet forum term

basically a poster who comes onto a message board with the sole intent to deceive, rouse up the other posters or make inane or stupid comments on purpose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
 
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