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The author of the book I mentioned and my wife (a long time runner) specifically says to NOT run at a winded pace. If cant hold conversation with person running with the pace is too fast and not Aerobic.
When I was younger, I trained myself to run half-marathon distances by running as hard as I could on a 3-mile fartlek running route.
It's not comfortable to do so at the beginning, but I was able to run pretty much any distance I wanted with my training once I became comfortable with it.
Mind you, I was running to become fit and not because I wanted to burn calories.
Exercise programs should be intense, so you become fit.
Afterwards, you can walk at a leisurely pace to burn your calores.
Having a pound of muscle will burn about a pound of fat over the course of the year, so you're always better off to pack on the muscle.
The technique that runners use to keep themselves oxygenated is inhale on one step and exhale on the other.
If you have low fitness, alternate between running and running slower (or walking)
 

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Main issue I see with people that are obese and want to lose is getting this couch potato to gladiator mentality. They burn out and return to the couch. You MUST change your lifestyle for LIFE!!! The mentality people need to understand is those certain foods are KILLING you! I've helped many obese people with such simple changes that should just be obvious. But you have to take small steps. Learn to eat the correct foods. Sugar and carbs are EVERYWHERE, and it takes some thought to avoid them.

I've watched obese people go out with vigor, try to run, lift, etc, and either hurt themselves or otherwise quit.

I won't buy into this aerobic vs anaerobic BS, because that is what it is! For obese people, walking up the stairs is a workout, so that is where you start! Walking at a brisk pace is WAY safer for your joints. Do you walk now? Then walking is considered an upgrade.

I am a firm believer in pushing the heart rate up, when you can handle it. For obese people, that is probably a walk. Personally, I shift between fast jogging and sprints or basically HIIT training. That is NOT for someone coming off the couch! But there is a lot of science that pushing the heart rate in intervals changes the body chemistry and metabolism.

But I cannot stress enough that diet should always come first. I helped a couple ladies last year and they changed their diet for 30 days before doing any exercise. One lost 10lbs in 30 days just with the diet change!

However, I stand firm that I don't care if you don't have an ounce of fat on you, you are NOT healthy if you don't exercise. I've seen too many "healthy" people die early to buy that. Genetics always plays a part, but those are just the cards you were dealt, it's all in how you play them that matter.
 

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Was reading through thread about guy thinking to hire a hooker cuz his wife had a belly. About to comment on the weight loss debate when Mod cautioned to start different thread. So, here goes.

I believe what works well is described in an old book called "Fit or Fat". The author's proposition is that diets don't work. He says none of them work. He states that overweight people dieting actually ratchets their weight upward with every time they diet. And he shows with examples from his lifetime helping people shed pounds that the only effective way to lose weight to exercise at an aerobic rate, getting pulse rate to 80% of max for at least 20 minutes every day. So there is my belief. What about others?
I completely disagree.
Fat people go to the gym all the time and it doesn’t do a damn thing for them if their diet and nutrition is still crap.
Conversely, I’ve seen many people lose significant weight without significant exercise, based largely on managing their diet/nutrition.

I’m a big advocate of the gym, but not as a primary weight-loss tool.
90% of weight loss is diet. And it’s a combination of eating the right portions of the right things.
Should exercise be combined with diet, sure. But I assure you 20 minutes of treadmill time is not the primary factor in why someone’s fat, or how they can get un-fat.
 

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I completely disagree.
Fat people go to the gym all the time and it doesn’t do a damn thing for them if their diet and nutrition is still crap.
Conversely, I’ve seen many people lose significant weight without significant exercise, based largely on managing their diet/nutrition.

I’m a big advocate of the gym, but not as a primary weight-loss tool.
90% of weight loss is diet. And it’s a combination of eating the right portions of the right things.
Should exercise be combined with diet, sure. But I assure you 20 minutes of treadmill time is not the primary factor in why someone’s fat, or how they can get un-fat.
I agree. Exercise is important, but it isn't the primary weight control variable. It is all about calories. For example, being on an elliptical for 30 minutes will burn around 300 calories, depending on several factors. That is about as much as a donut or a flavored coffee from Dunkin. You could achieve the same results by eliminating one of them from your diet. Or if you grab on of them after your 30 minutes on the elliptical you just negated that calorie burn. There is some argument that the exercise has a lasting metabolic impact, but it is minimal.

As I've heard it said, you can't outrun a bad diet. The "diets" that fail are the ones that are extreme. They eliminate entire categories of foods or they drop the caloric intake too drastically. They aren't sustainable, that is the problem. Weight loss and keeping it off requires a permanent change in your eating habits. You can still have some of the goodies you love, but you need to be smart about it.

I personally think any attempt at weight loss should also be accompanied by resistance training. That will promote retention of muscle while you are in a caloric deficit.
 

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My friend is an elite athlete, he was a professional prize fighter. He had put on some weight. Guy wasn’t even close to fat he could do 20+ pull ups at his “fat” weight.

Anyway without changing working out he started tracking his exact calories and macros with myfitnesspal the app. He started with stupid macros and didn’t even know what they were but now he’s on 1g protein/target weight. Drinking at least 1 gallon of water a day he is down 6lbs in 2 weeks. He picked a target weight and just went with what the app told him logging all his food with a scale and the UPC scanner.

So even someone who is already in good shape if you eat a calorie deficit you lose. Thanks physics!
 

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My friend is an elite athlete, he was a professional prize fighter. He had put on some weight. Guy wasn’t even close to fat he could do 20+ pull ups at his “fat” weight.

Anyway without changing working out he started tracking his exact calories and macros with myfitnesspal the app. He started with stupid macros and didn’t even know what they were but now he’s on 1g protein/target weight. Drinking at least 1 gallon of water a day he is down 6lbs in 2 weeks. He picked a target weight and just went with what the app told him logging all his food with a scale and the UPC scanner.

So even someone who is already in good shape if you eat a calorie deficit you lose. Thanks physics!
MyFitnessPal is awesome. Dude approved and highly recommended.
 

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My friend is an elite athlete, he was a professional prize fighter. He had put on some weight. Guy wasn’t even close to fat he could do 20+ pull ups at his “fat” weight.

Anyway without changing working out he started tracking his exact calories and macros with myfitnesspal the app. He started with stupid macros and didn’t even know what they were but now he’s on 1g protein/target weight. Drinking at least 1 gallon of water a day he is down 6lbs in 2 weeks. He picked a target weight and just went with what the app told him logging all his food with a scale and the UPC scanner.

So even someone who is already in good shape if you eat a calorie deficit you lose. Thanks physics!
Those calorie deficit diets take some time to see results so people tend to lose interest within a week. You can cut out carbs and be a couch potato and lose a ton of weight. I've done it! Is the calorie deficit diet likely more healthy...probably if it means you exercise more to maintain the deficit. But if you just want to lose weight, cutting carbs is the easiest and quickest.
 

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Those calorie deficit diets take some time to see results so people tend to lose interest within a week. You can cut out carbs and be a couch potato and lose a ton of weight. I've done it! Is the calorie deficit diet likely more healthy...probably if it means you exercise more to maintain the deficit. But if you just want to lose weight, cutting carbs is the easiest and quickest.
Cutting carbs is cutting calories. About 4cal/g of carbs you cut from your diet, assuming you don't replace it with fat or protein. Also, carbs tend to make you hold water weight, so you get a quick woosh of weigh loss at the beginning when you restrict carbs. In the end it is all thermodynamics.
 

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Cutting carbs is cutting calories. About 4cal/g of carbs you cut from your diet, assuming you don't replace it with fat or protein. Also, carbs tend to make you hold water weight, so you get a quick woosh of weigh loss at the beginning when you restrict carbs. In the end it is all thermodynamics.
Yea they are similar in some respects... bread and sugar is bad etc... But I don't have to count that high with carbs haha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #115 ·
I completely disagree.
Fat people go to the gym all the time and it doesn’t do a damn thing for them if their diet and nutrition is still crap.
Conversely, I’ve seen many people lose significant weight without significant exercise, based largely on managing their diet/nutrition.

I’m a big advocate of the gym, but not as a primary weight-loss tool.
90% of weight loss is diet. And it’s a combination of eating the right portions of the right things.
Should exercise be combined with diet, sure. But I assure you 20 minutes of treadmill time is not the primary factor in why someone’s fat, or how they can get un-fat.
The book does not talk about going to the gym. He talks about aerobic exercise. He also writes about nutrition and its importance. So you disagree. We have different opinions. I am no expert, maybe you are. The book worked well for me.
 

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The book does not talk about going to the gym. He talks about aerobic exercise. He also writes about nutrition and its importance. So you disagree. We have different opinions. I am no expert, maybe you are. The book worked well for me.
The disadvantage of cardiovascular exercise is that once you stop, you stop burning calories at that level.
The advantage of muscle building is that you keep burning calories in order to maintain the muscle.
For every pound of muscle you can put on your frame will work out to be about the same calories as a pound of fat over the course of the year.
Of course, the most important thing about exercise is that you enjoy what you do so you are encouraged to keep doing it more than the results that you are getting.
I'd rather have somebody settle for losing 3lbs a year, knowing they love their exercise than 10lbs/year and thinking exercise is a chore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
The disadvantage of cardiovascular exercise is that once you stop, you stop burning calories at that level.
The advantage of muscle building is that you keep burning calories in order to maintain the muscle.
For every pound of muscle you can put on your frame will work out to be about the same calories as a pound of fat over the course of the year.
Of course, the most important thing about exercise is that you enjoy what you do so you are encouraged to keep doing it more than the results that you are getting.
I'd rather have somebody settle for losing 3lbs a year, knowing they love their exercise than 10lbs/year and thinking exercise is a chore.
Actually, not according to Bailey. He contends in his book that aerobic exercise "trains" the muscles to burn fat all day long by favoring fat burning enzyme formation. He said " we really don't know why it works, but it does". And he echos the point about exercise that is doable on a regular basis. He claims that aerobic exercise is way more efficient at burning calories, so given a small amount of available exercise time, aerobic it all that can get the job done.

I am out of my league defending the book. And that wasn't why I started the thread. I just found a book that rang true for me when I read it by a man with background in providing programs aimed at achieving physical fitness and controlling excess fat. My lifes work wasn't in the medical field and I wasn't a jock or a gym rat. So have no background to argue anything about it. The book worked for me and has worked for a lot of friends and family. Everything in the book rang true with my personal experiences and observations. I would encourage anyone to read the book with an open mind. Or don't.

It's kinda funny this thread was idle for a long time. I had ignored it, and recently it suddenly fired up. Who knows why.

I am surprised the Mods didn't label it a zombie thread and close it.
 

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Actually, not according to Bailey. He contends in his book that aerobic exercise "trains" the muscles to burn fat all day long by favoring fat burning enzyme formation. He said " we really don't know why it works, but it does". And he echos the point about exercise that is doable on a regular basis. He claims that aerobic exercise is way more efficient at burning calories, so given a small amount of available exercise time, aerobic it all that can get the job done.

I am out of my league defending the book. And that wasn't why I started the thread. I just found a book that rang true for me when I read it by a man with background in providing programs aimed at achieving physical fitness and controlling excess fat. My lifes work wasn't in the medical field and I wasn't a jock or a gym rat. So have no background to argue anything about it. The book worked for me and has worked for a lot of friends and family. Everything in the book rang true with my personal experiences and observations. I would encourage anyone to read the book with an open mind. Or don't.

It's kinda funny this thread was idle for a long time. I had ignored it, and recently it suddenly fired up. Who knows why.

I am surprised the Mods didn't label it a zombie thread and close it.
You burn about 10% more calories for the next 24 hours, after your exercise session.
But you will not burn the 150 calories that you burned while running a mile, unless you run another mile.
That's what I'm saying.

Aerobic exercise is dependent upon you doing it, in order to burn the calories.
Muscle-building exercises will still allow you to burn 10-15 calories/day, for every pound of muscle that you put onto your frame, whether or not you are exercising.

I'm not here to prove that book wrong or anything like.
My position is that it is more important that you find activities you like and are incentivized to keep doing than how effective you are.

Anything you do is going to help.
Everybody's gifts and temperament and personality are all different.
Some people, like @ConanHub or @ccpowerslave can psychologically handle exercise sessions that leaves them in need of being wheelchaired out to the car when they are finished.
That may not be you, and that's ok.

You have a book and it says some good things, which is a good starting place to be.
However, my recommendation is gather information from other sources.
He may not be completely correct in his positions, so it is better to get ten other sources to see if they say the same thing.
It may turn out that he is 100% correct and you confirmed this by reading other sources of the same information.

For example, I used to be an advocate for HIT weight-training. I thought HIT was how it should be done.
However, after doing my research, my position now is that HIT may be the most effective way to build muscle and strength, but it's not necessarily the best way for a person.
Some people are better with lower-intensity regiments to work towards muscle failure.
If you look at all the champion bodybuilders, most of them don't do HIT. Not even Mike Mentzer, the foremost advocate of HIT, would do HIT all the time.
The one thing they all did, however, was work themselves to failure in their exercises.
So, I believe the most important thing is to work yourself to failure, even if you don't do it in the most efficient way.
 

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I think Gregory is right.

You can’t workout at 1000 calories/hour unless you are at a high level of fitness to start with.

Dropping weight is mostly all diet. Let’s say without workout my TDEE is 2250 or something, the workout which would be really hard every day you’re getting like a pound and a half of ground beef extra a day you can eat and maintain, otherwise you don’t eat part of it, maybe only half a pound and then in a week you would lose slightly less than a pound and that is working out like a maniac for 1h at a level most people aren’t capable of.

At “fighting weight” for me training for amateur boxing years ago I was running 30 miles a week, sparring once or twice that week, doing hour and a half conditioning workouts, and even BJJ all at the same time.

My TDEE was obscene because I was training like a professional athlete and I could eat ridiculous stuff and I wouldn’t gain weight. I’d eat a couple large pizzas from Round Table every week myself, one pizza at a sitting, just for dinner. That was almost 5k calories for one meal but I was walking around at 215 to drop to 205.
 

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Eating the right type of calories at the right times is also a big help to losing weight. Having the discipline not to eat more when you start working out, because often the exercise creates increased appetite.

For exercise I fall back on mostly plyometrics and isometrics that I learned as a competitive wrestler in my youth. Pushups are amazing and can be modified in endless ways to isolate specific sets of muscles.

I try to avoid the thought of a "diet" because it implies temporary changes. Complete and permanent changes in behavior and what you eat are the only effective way I've found to lose and keep off weight. No soda, fruit juice, processed junk, limit or eliminate alcohol consumption are great empty calories to target first.
 
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