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Hey folks.

I posted on divorce and seperation but I got told to post here so here's the link to my thread so people can pick up where it's left off.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/57639-looking-help-guidance.html
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Hows it goin? Hope this hleps.

How the Hell does anyone do THIS from a 'mobile'?:


Hi people,

This is my story, I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

My wife (28) and I (38) have been together for 7 years and we got married on the 3rd of jan 2010. She was and still is the only woman I want in the world. Things were great, we had the typical arguments but nothing was so bad that we didn't love eachother and told eachother almost everyday either by saying it or in a text message. We bought our first home in feb 2011. A 4 bedroom house to start a family. I have 2 kids already from another relationship and during the time we bought our house things were tricky there as there mom had met a new guy who stayed 300 miles away and wanted to relocate and I was fighting a court battle for them to remain closer because my kids didn't want to be that far from family and there dad. I need to touch on the relationship between my kids and my wife. She never really took a lot to do with my kids in the whole 7 years. She was never bad to them (once when she was drunk she shouted at one of them because my daughter was watching tv and my wife wanted peace) but she never totally got involved with them. I do know her father from the start had a problem with me having kids and he made a point of telling her how difficult it might be for her but she didn't really listen to him. During the court battle my wife didn't contribute any money or really any support at the time.

Anyway, during the court action things were tough money wise. Me paying lawyers and us buying a house made money tight but we still had enough. Her job was very steady and a good pay. I am a self employed musician and I make a good wage but it can be inconsistent.

The court battle started to mellow out around the march. 4 months later in july 2011 her father died while hill walking. He fell off a cliff. It was devastating for everyone. My wife really took a low, the doctor started to give her anti depressants to cope. During that time I tried to be there and offer support. The way I remember it was I tried to talk to her, be there, listen but it always ended up me doing something wrong or saying something that would end up with her flying off the handle at me and me being the bad one. A lot of this I just took as I put it down to grief. There were a few times I was punched or thumped on the chest in anger but I took it and didn't react. (I've found out the night before our wedding her dad and her went out for dinner, during dinner she asked him to contribute to the service. In the service it said "tradition in a wedding is a father handing over a daughter but now a days things are not like that. (Her dads name) do you accept (my wife's name) choice of husband" all he had to say in the script was "yes I do". Well I found out the night before he refused to contribute and say that. What a [email protected] huh.)

So, our marriage was difficult after her dads death. Intimacy was gone (not by me I always wanted to be close with her), sex was very low (not by me I always wanted her) all these things I could understand due to the circumstances. My wife could see things were difficult so she asked me to step back so she could deal with her grief so we could avoid conflict. I agreed reluctantly because I wanted to help but I did so. I always was around, offering her tea as she worked. Tried to talk to her and keep close but she wasn't really interested.

She decided about 6 weeks after her dads death she wanted a baby. I tried to get her to slow down since it was so close to her dads death. She stopped taking her pill. I knew this and one time we had sex I pulled out before I came and she said to me "for god sakes Kevin man up" god I was so close to smacking her in the teeth after that. But of course I didn't. Am not a violent person especially to women.

In November one of her friends was asking how she was getting on. I explained things were difficult at the moment. The next thing I knew the following week her friend told my wife I was thinking about divorcing her. I said no such thing. My wife called me in a panic asking if that's what I was going to do, I told her no I loved her and I never said anything like that. She sent me a text saying. Kevin I love you and need you. Tell me what I have to do to make you love me again. I told Her i do love you. Tried to make her secure.

So we get through Christmas and we went to Egypt on our anniversary. We spoke about having kids again and I said yes I wanted that but we should hold off until things were steady. She didn't like this. Anyway that was January. March we spoke about going to Cuba on 2013 anniversary.

On the 17th of April my wife wrote this.

Well. An awful lot has happened since then. I don't even know where to start.

So I'll start now-dispite things on the surface being better with Kevin, I've realised over the past few weeks that this isn't really a marriage - its more like flat mates ....
-we don't share a bed.
-we don't spend time together.
-we don't do anything.
-our lives are seperate.
-we don't have mutual friends.
-we don't have sex.
-his smoking annoys me.
- my drinking annoys him.
- we don't share anything.
- we have nothing in common.

I don't know what to do. This can't be the rest of out lives. I don't think he can be happy either. But how can I bring it up?

He will:
1 get defensive, attack and blame me.
2 accuse me of cheating.
3 refuse to accept it.

It's not fair. I think we both deserve to be happier. But I don't know how to fix things.

Options:
1 ignore it.
2 suggest counselling.
3 suggest separation.

****.

We sat down to talk about our marriage problems (problems I knew we're there but I had to wait for her to want to talk about them, all of the things on that list I tried to talk to her about as they happened, over 2 years I tried to talk about stuff, she would just not want too). We sat down to talk about stuff. She got drunk and suggested I might be happier with someone else. I told her no. It's her I loved and wanted and I wanted things to be better than the last year which through unfortunate circumstances have effected our lives. Anyway she got drunk and nothing got sorted.

Here is a list of events that happened over the next few months.
14th April - my wife goes on a hen night.
17th April - she writes the above list in her journal,
20th April - am told the list,
27th April - we agree to talk and we both really want to try and fix things,
28th April - we sit down to talk. Lorna gets drunk.
28th may - Lorna mentions seriously divorce,
5th June - Lorna says its over can't try anymore or see a way to fix things.
9th june - Lorna heads off to rockness and pulls the hen night guy,
12th June - I ask Lorna to tell me if this is another guy. She says no,
17th June - find out about the guy she met on the hen night and rockness.

Since then I've been told all the classic lines "I love you but am not in love with you". All the blame has been put on me (but not at first, she was crying and said sorry for ruining our marriage). She's now rewriting history saying it was never right from the start. Basically she's really hitting me hard with classic infidelity quotes and blame. It's all my fault of course in her eyes.

That was 4 months ago. I still love her. I keep making excuses for her. I try and understand her grief and how that could be causing this. Am on the roller coaster. Am really messed up with it all.

Yous all seem pretty wise so I'd like to hear your thoughts.

She has no interest at all in reconciliation. She's happy now with her new guy she tells me. She denies this is an affair and says nothing psychical happened until she said she wanted a separation (now divorce). Of course by nothing psychical happening she means on my birthday at the rockness music festival 4 days after she said its over. And she thinks that's ok.

I think this is at the very least an EA into a PA. ever since meeting this guy she made a get out plan. Am so messed up right now. She hasn't been honest at all. Anything I know I've had to find out myself then once she's been caught she admits it. But it's not been the truth coming from her mouth.

Her affair is one thing. That can be dealt with (she doesn't wanna stop it though). It's the lies, deception, the hurt she's causing me. The way she BS me now, the way she blames me, the rewriting of history. It's killing me inside. Right now am so angry.

Give me the 2x4 treatment if yous think its best.

I've read divorce remedy, 5 love languages, no more mr nice guy and hold onto your nuts. There alright but I don't think things were that bad in my marriage. Infact I know we had a great life. It seems like the first hurdle we hit she jumped off the horse.

I guess the advice am looking for is how to make reconciliation happen if its possible. Am 100% committed to my wedding vows and am not gonna just throw it away. If there's a chance to fix this that's the direction I wanna go in.

To add also I moved out the marital home at the end of June and she's now selling our house.

Kevin.
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Discussion Starter #4
The new link posted by awaitingdeletion works for me. Maybe the problem is its done on my iPhone.
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A couple of things you need to understand:

This isn’t your fault, most of the negativity she is having over you is exaggerated because she is in an A. She has to villainize you and the M in order to justify the A in her head. Basically re-writing your marital history, very common.

Also, you are not going to be able to talk her into an R so don’t waste your time. She has to want it herself and there isn’t anything you can say that will make a difference and attempting to stop her from leaving at this point will fail. She expects you to resist and is ready for it.

The ONLY thing you can do is let her go and if there’s a chance to R it will be because the A fails (they typically do) and she misses you. Push her out and if she comes back then deal with then but if she doesn’t then there was no hope anyway. I know you will feel compelled to try to do something but the more you do the more likely you will end up sabotaging yourself. You can’t screw up if you don’t do or say anything.

TL;DR: Kick her out and go NC
 

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She wants children. It seems that if you don't give them to her she may take up someone else willing to "show" her love. Maybe thats just the symptom of deeper problems. Children should be a by product of love. It must be so confusing for you. Definitely not your fault if she's cheating.
 

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Also, you are not going to be able to talk her into an R so don’t waste your time. She has to want it herself and there isn’t anything you can say that will make a difference and attempting to stop her from leaving at this point will fail. She expects you to resist and is ready for it.

The ONLY thing you can do is let her go and if there’s a chance to R it will be because the A fails (they typically do) and she misses you. Push her out and if she comes back then deal with then but if she doesn’t then there was no hope anyway. I know you will feel compelled to try to do something but the more you do the more likely you will end up sabotaging yourself. You can’t screw up if you don’t do or say anything.

TL;DR: Kick her out and go NC

Basically give her some tough love, show indifference to what she does, show that you have and/or are willing to move on without her, showing that you do not need her and that you are not willing to tolerate her waywardness and disrespect as a wife.

If you both decide to R, no more girls/boys nights out, no more lunches with friends of the opposite sex, no sleep overs with friends, no private texting, no privacy, no secret emails, no fishy working overtime late night hours with co worker(s).

Etc.
 

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One thing is that you can actually go to 'Relationship counselling' on your. another hylperlink

[url=http://www.relationships-scotland.org.uk/find-a-local-service]Find a local service | Relationships Scotland[/URL]

Might be worth a go to get your head round it and assess options?
Thats good too but find a good counselor. Some counselors do not help, some exacerbate your wifes behavior by blaming it on you. Give yourself time to focus on yourself.

You need to clear your mind of distractions, you need to eat healthy, intake vitamin c to deal with stress (cortisol) affectively, a healthy body intaking healthy food maintains a healthy mind.

Let the dust settle. Deep down inside your wife knows she is doing wrong, you just need to show her some tough love and be a man in the sense that you cannot control her, you will not force her but you WILL NOT TOLERATE cake eating. She can mess around all she wants after you divorce her if NEED BE. YOU'VE DONE IT ONCE AND YOU WILL AND CAN DO IT AGAIN IF YOU HAVE TO for the sake of SELF RESPECT and DIGNITY.

Focus on yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A couple of things you need to understand:

This isn’t your fault, most of the negativity she is having over you is exaggerated because she is in an A. She has to villainize you and the M in order to justify the A in her head. Basically re-writing your marital history, very common.

Also, you are not going to be able to talk her into an R so don’t waste your time. She has to want it herself and there isn’t anything you can say that will make a difference and attempting to stop her from leaving at this point will fail. She expects you to resist and is ready for it.

The ONLY thing you can do is let her go and if there’s a chance to R it will be because the A fails (they typically do) and she misses you. Push her out and if she comes back then deal with then but if she doesn’t then there was no hope anyway. I know you will feel compelled to try to do something but the more you do the more likely you will end up sabotaging yourself. You can’t screw up if you don’t do or say anything.

TL;DR: Kick her out and go NC
Well before I came on here and started to read about this stuff I done all the wrong stuff. Begging, trying to talk about things with her, gettin angry. The list goes on and on.
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Thats good too but find a good counselor. Some counselors do not help, some exacerbate your wifes behavior by blaming it on you. Give yourself time to focus on yourself.

You need to clear your mind of distractions, you need to eat healthy, intake vitamin c to deal with stress (cortisol) affectively, a healthy body intaking healthy food maintains a healthy mind.

Let the dust settle. Deep down inside your wife knows she is doing wrong, you just need to show her some tough love and be a man in the sense that you cannot control her, you will not force her but you WILL NOT TOLERATE cake eating. She can mess around all she wants after you divorce her if NEED BE. YOU'VE DONE IT ONCE AND YOU WILL AND CAN DO IT AGAIN IF YOU HAVE TO for the sake of SELF RESPECT and DIGNITY.

Focus on yourself.
Slowly starting to realise this but probably too late. Lost 3 stone all the standard stuff since finding out about the affair. She is now with him. She still makes out she didn't intend this to happen. Total rubbish. After the hen night what did she expect to happen keeping in touch with him and so on. I don't think she knew him before the hen night. Basically she let this develop and probably encouraged it.

The worst part is her deception and lies. Acting like this is some big mistake. Total accident. Am not stupid I have a fair idea how this developed. In may we were still in a sexual relationship.
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First, your wife's losing her father suddenly is a huge game-changer. She grieves & discovers her own mortality at the same time. People who experience this are very unpredictable and often have no idea how to sort out their feelings. Counseling is very important here, I think.

Second, you cannot underestimate the effect of drinking. If you want to salvage your marriage, she has to stop drinking. It will take a few months for her to feel at all whole again physically, but it will happen. And she doesn't have to be a raging alcoholic for the effects on her behavior and personality to be profound. Again, professional help is needed.

Third, the desire to have a child is probably directly related to my first and second points.

I've been through some of what your wife is going through & I can tell you it's not your fault. We all have to take some responsibility in a marriage, but from your description, her problems are organic.
 

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Kevin,
Read "let Them go", the "180", and the stickies about remorse.
Your wife is in an affair fog, probably. Walk away and wait a bit. Get some counseling. When it blows up in her face, she'll be back. Then, you can decide if you want to give her a second chance.
Do other things to get your mind off of her -- go hill walking, go bicycling, be social, read, lift weights. Change your focus away from her for a while. It's not your fault she cheated. Focus on you for a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yea affair fogs, gaslighting read it all trying to find understanding and clarity about all this. The excuses are what I've been looking for to try and not just see her as the two timing **** she is. Is it really as simple as that?
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Is she a two-timer or did she make a mistake...? I don't know enough about your story to say that. I do think you shouldn't blame yourself for her cheating. That was her decision. Doesn't mean she doesn't love you; just means she's got some problems with her moral compass...
 

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What I do know is meeting this OM seems to be what starts the ball rolling towards her opening up about problems. Like I've said I wasn't ignorant to our problems and I had tried to communicate with her things I'd like to be different but she wasn't too understanding about ways to fix them. (also i didnt really pressure her because she was pretty messed up with her greif) Then she meets this OM while out drinking and she then starts to list these problems as reasons to end our marriage. She even included my smoking and her drinking as reasons to end the marriage. I mean come on, excuses and justifications for screwing around and wanting someone else that's what the list of problems were. There was nothing on that list that love, attention and communication couldn't sort out.

Add to the list the classic lines I've been told of "I love you but not in love with you", "we have different life goals", or "it's not you, it's me". And it all screams bulls&@t to me. Excuse after excuse. Or justification to relieve guilt and rationalisation to accept her giving up. That's all it seems to me, not one bit of genuine truth anywhere.

The messed up part though is I still care, miss her, want to fix things and love her. It's amazing just how mental that sounds when am being treated so badly.
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It does not sound mental; just natural.
You are not being treated as badly as some.

Love, attention and communication might be more easily seen with a woman's beer goggles.

Twenty eight seems young to me now. She might well be trying to please her dead Dad. God knows what she is going through after that. She might kick herself later or it might have been just the impetus she needed if things were bad from her point of view and she had given up hope of really getting anywhere with you. It could take you round in circles forever if you let it.

It looks like she has gone and she isn't talking so I can only suggest you respect your feelings and allow yourself to keep feeling them.

Have you looked at Elizabeths Kubler-Ross's model for greif??
No doubt a million songs put it a million times better since it is nothing really new.

It might apply to you losing the marriage as much as to her losing her father suddenly. Feelings can change and they can follow a general pattern up to a point and different people can be at different stages about the same thing at the same time.

Don't beat yourself up for loving her even when she is not there.
I am sorry this is all I can say. I think Moxy is spot on here. Take care of yourself and the kids.
 
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