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It's not arrogant to state a simple truth. You know more than the majority of the earth's population too - hell, anyone with Bachelor's degree can probably make that claim.
And they would be very arrogant to do so. A plumber without a high school diploma could very well have more education than 90% of bachelor degree holders. University is not the only source of knowledge.
 

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Very good point that doesn't even begin to touch on the aspect of those who believe in a SPECIFIC God and assumes anyone who doesn't believe in that same God is wrong as well.
When we don't even if God exists or not lets defer arguing about her name and rule book later. :)

We have a word for that.

We call it arrogance.
?
 

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Neither George Washington nor Abraham Lincoln graduated college. Several other presidents didn't as well. What college did Edison or the Wright Brothers graduate from? Benjamin Franklin didn't graduate college or even high school.
 

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Neither George Washington nor Abraham Lincoln graduated college. Several other presidents didn't as well. What college did Edison or the Wright Brothers graduate from? Benjamin Franklin didn't graduate college or even high school.
Holy crap, do ever say anything having to do with the topic at hand? You mention people from different eras to support some flawed argument about the present? Or do you just post stuff to keep arguing? Your handle is very appropriate.
 

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Holy crap, do ever say anything having to do with the topic at hand? You mention people from different eras to support some flawed argument about the present? Or do you just post stuff to keep arguing? Your handle is very appropriate.
Another era? Did some magic happen in the past 100 years that turned all non-college graduates into idiots and all college graduates into geniuses? Some of the most uneducated people I have ever met had degrees. That piece of paper means someone spent a sufficient amount of time and money in an institution to get it. That's all it means. Doesn't mean the graduate knows their butt from a hole in the ground. It certainly doesn't mean they have more knowledge than anyone else in the room, let alone in the country or in the world.

Steve Jobs had a high school diploma. Was he an idiot? You think the majority of BS or BA degree holders were smarter than he was?
Mark Zuckerberg has a high school diploma.
 

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Another era? Did some magic happen in the past 100 years that turned all non-college graduates into idiots and all college graduates into geniuses? Some of the most uneducated people I have ever met had degrees. That piece of paper means someone spent a sufficient amount of time and money in an institution to get it. That's all it means. Doesn't mean the graduate knows their butt from a hole in the ground. It certainly doesn't mean they have more knowledge than anyone else in the room, let alone in the country or in the world.

Steve Jobs had a high school diploma. Was he an idiot? You think the majority of BS or BA degree holders were smarter than he was?
Mark Zuckerberg has a high school diploma.
Cool, thanks for the history lesson, I didn't know Washington, Lincoln and Franklin were alive in the last 100 years. But if you say so.
What does a BA or BS or any degree have to do with being educated, I mean outside of your little slice of heaven that is?
 

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Neither George Washington nor Abraham Lincoln graduated college. Several other presidents didn't as well. What college did Edison or the Wright Brothers graduate from? Benjamin Franklin didn't graduate college or even high school.
I don't know about the Wright Brothers, but the rest of the names on your list of examples were all deists. Coincidence?
 

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I would take exception to the notion that proof is needed for something to exist. Scientists make new discoveries all the time. That which they discover obviously existed prior to being discovered. If the only things that exist are things we can prove exist there really is no point in further exploration. We explore because we acknowledge there is much we don't currently know.
True. And we may very well find out what we thought all along was wrong. Like believing a higher power existed.

People believed a lot of crazy stuff before scientists dispelled myths and explained them logically.
 

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Proof is needed if something exists.

The person who believes in god has no proof that god exists.
The person who does not believe in god has no proof that god exists.

The number of people who believe in God is way more than people who absolutely disregard such a probability.

But because of the significant numerical difference between the two groups, the atheists are wrong.

Such an argument is downright stupid.
Just because a majority believes in something does not mean anything.

But and this is my own disclaimer. I am 100% believe in God kinda guy.

Believing in god because your parents told you he exists is beyond stupidity.
What if the laws of physics prove that the foundational beginning of physics (as taught) contradicts the laws it created.

Is that proof that the laws don't exist, or that the matter being taught is a hoax?
 

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Will you suffer in a measurable and tangible way.
The only parallel I can see here is in schools and colleges where everyone used to promise "God" something like charity or good deeds if and only if they can pass the exam.

My problem with this view point is this. If I am believing in God because there is some material advantage for me....then I am not really in love with the said God.
I believe the God of the Bible addressed this in Isaiah, when he said, "Your religion is like a soiled menstrual garment," if you use something to cleanse yourself of sin and then offer that something to God as sacrifice, penances, or charity, you offend him with your offerings.

Paul also, after bragging about all his religious achievements, said that his religion was to him, a steaming pile of sh¡t, once Christ found him.
 

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Since there is not nor has there ever been since recorded history a human on this planet who knows for a fact whether a Supreme Being exists or not, how does one's education make one person any more knowledgeable than another on this point?
The point itself is completely unimportant, and can't be addressed with the scientific method anyway.

The most educated person on earth does not know for a fact how this earth came into being.
Actually, I do, and you could to if you weren't so ignorant of what is being discovered every day now about how planets form. Planets forming around other stars is being observed right now, in fact. So we do know exactly how the Earth and the other planets in our solar system, and the sun, formed 4.6 billion years ago.

I'd say one of the most important things a person could know is that they don't and can't know everything.
Scientists will admit to not knowing everything, but don't expect them to say they can't know everything. "Can't never did anything."

I've got a few degrees myself but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that means I know more than the vast majority of folks on this earth or that I'm even better educated. I may have more formal education than most but that's all those pieces of paper mean.
So, you don't equate education with knowledge? Granted, a bachelor's degree can often involve more memorization than independent thought, but not a Master's or a PhD (or an MD, or a law degree...).

-10th Engineer Harrison
 

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Scientists make new discoveries all the time. That which they discover obviously existed prior to being discovered.
But now they KNOW it exists and can now work on determining how it came to be.

If the only things that exist are things we can prove exist there really is no point in further exploration. We explore because we acknowledge there is much we don't currently know.
That didn't make a whole helluva lot of sense.

-10th Engineer Harrison
 

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And they would be very arrogant to do so. A plumber without a high school diploma could very well have more education than 90% of bachelor degree holders. University is not the only source of knowledge.
To quote Walter Brennan:

"No brag, just facts."
 

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Backfired?
Maybe free will is how God justifies separating the saved from the damned... Just a thought?
Sorry to return to an old point, but this has been gnawing on me today...

So the system for determining the saved from the damned is free will.

Does that seem like a particularly good system to you? We're supposed to believe that the best or perhaps only way to find out if someone is worthy of paradise at the right hand of god is to allow him utter and complete free reign to do as he will on earth.

Be disrespectful to his parents. Covet his neighbor's wife. Murder someone. Murder six million of his chosen people even when there are millions of other inhabitants who want him removed if only they could get a tank into Berlin. Start a nuclear holocaust that eradicates nearly every person on the planet.

This is the best system god could come up with? The end justifies the means, even if the means are so monumentally evil and against his will that most of his extant creation has to suffer to find out if this ONE PERSON is worthy?

That's a hard system to get behind as being fair, efficient, or particularly praise worthy. Did we really need every one of the six million Jews dead to know Hitler was a bad man? Wasn't it sorta clear after the first one? The first 100,000? The first million?

There has GOT to be a better way.
 

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Good evening
if you are referring to the big bang, what that theory claims is that 14 B years ago everything in the presently visible universe was in a very small volume. It doesn't say anything about how it got there - but there is a lot of work to see if we can see evidence of something earlier (of that concept even applies).

It is quite possible for religion to provide real benefits to people and to society even if god does not exist. It can serve an a organizing force and at a way to give people's lives meaning.





There is no "proof" that the world came about spontaneously. That theory must be accepted on faith if it is to be accepted at all. My position is not that atheists are wrong but that they are dismissive of any other view.

Now, whether God does not does not exist, if there are measurable and tangible benefits for those who believe in His existence, then there is value in religious belief.

If religion didn't serve some societal purpose, it would not exist in practically all societies. Do atheists have something better to offer to replace all those tangible positive benefits?
 

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I don't know, condoms?

Sorry, not very interested in playing guessing games. If you and GA could get together and agree on the purpose of free will so that we might have agreement on separating the sheep from the goats, that would be swell.
 

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Good evening
physicists constantly look for this. It is a classic technique in general relativity to do thought experiments, then calculations and see if you end up with results that contradict the original assumptions.

In particle physics we DO get self inconsistencies- the theories become inconsistent at very high energies (beyond the reach of experiments). There is lots of active work to modify theories to make them consistent in this range.

Most physics only applies in a limited (but often very large) range of conditions. There is an ongoing search for a set of physics laws that work under ALL conditions.

Note that physics is valid over a very large range - from 1/1000 the size of a proton to the size of the visible universe. The edge cases - very high energies, strong gravitational fields, etc there are some problems.


What if the laws of physics prove that the foundational beginning of physics (as taught) contradicts the laws it created.

Is that proof that the laws don't exist, or that the matter being taught is a hoax?
 
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