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I'm motivated by angst and conflict, just differently. I'm not motivated by perform best under it. I don't have a need for it to perform at my best. I'm motivated by keeping it at bay, by preventing it. I'm motivated to work my hardest when I feel it could be around the corner. When the team could be put under that pressure.

I took a long three day training on motivation and leadership. I feel like a large number of leaders don't recognize the way their team is motivated. What pushed each individual. A lot of leaders tend to coach for success the way they themselves achieved it. "Do what I did, and you will be successful. Our whole branch/district/organization/company will be successful."

Then they wonder why their way that worker for them personally doesn't work. Their way, mandated, micromanaged, beat to death.... Why is it not producing the same results for everyone else as it did for me?

Motivation is a tricky thing for a lot of people. Too many apponted leaders have no idea how to motivate others, and thus have no idea how to lead others.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I'm motivated by angst and conflict, just differently. I'm not motivated by perform best under it. I don't have a need for it to perform at my best. I'm motivated by keeping it at bay, by preventing it. I'm motivated to work my hardest when I feel it could be around the corner. When the team could be put under that pressure.

I took a long three day training on motivation and leadership. I feel like a large number of leaders don't recognize the way their team is motivated. What pushed each individual. A lot of leaders tend to coach for success the way they themselves achieved it. "Do what I did, and you will be successful. Our whole branch/district/organization/company will be successful."

Then they wonder why their way that worker for them personally doesn't work. Their way, mandated, micromanaged, beat to death.... Why is it not producing the same results for everyone else as it did for me?

Motivation is a tricky thing for a lot of people. Too many apponted leaders have no idea how to motivate others, and thus have no idea how to lead others.
Can't mandating, micromanaging and beat to death their way be harassment and abuse? I would think there is a fine line there?
 

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To motivate people, you have to show them the glory of success. It's not money or perks at least in my industry. It's whose lights shine in January at CES.

No point trying conflict or anger, they'll just walk out with a great job offer elsewhere.
 

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Can't mandating, micromanaging and beat to death their way be harassment and abuse? I would think there is a fine line there?
Not really. If they are asking you to do a specific job in a specific way, Its not abuse. Its just not always effective. Especially conaidering everyone is individually good at different things.

I'm not talking about operational processes or procedures either btw. You just do those. Maybe suggest better ones, with less redundancy that make the process much less of a headache. But otherwise, you just do what they ask here. Its usually up to some operational lead, not necessarily the person doing the coaching.

I'm in sales so I speak from a sales perspective. Some guys/girls like pressure and perform better under it. Some like to be left alone and perform better that way. Some need competition to thrive. Some need a clear goal in mind to shoot for. In terms of the goal, I'm not talking about a number really, or a dollar amount. Could be anything!

Maybe my rep John really wants a new car, so we sit down and look at his life. Literally every expense. Form a plan together on how he can get another $500/month to get that new car he wants. John needs to be coached every transaction to maximize his sales potential. A quick mid coach, "did you ask about xyz? What about ABC?" "No sir, I'll get right on that." Where Suzie just needs to be shown how to make the money, because she is motivated by money. But then she is better off left to sell however she likes. When I coach her on every transaction, she becomes more rigid and robot like through the sales process, and her numbers actually suffer. Jacob just needs free lunch. "If you sell 5 xyz, I'll buy you lunch tomorrow" and he will hit 4 to 5 that day, guarenteed. He wants that free lunch bad. After each one he's there to tell you "4 more" "3 more" "only one left, hope you feel like Chinese food tomorrow cause thats what we're eating." Randy, Sally, and Gabe need competition. A leader board. They need me to give them something to shoot for "the top rep in X catagory month to date will get a $300 bose Bluetooth speaker on me at the end of the month. You have to finish with xyz to qualify." Then just start crap between them. "Hey Randy, Gabe said you have no shot at getting that speaker." Just go around individually lighting little fires here and there.

Y'all get the idea. Some managers have no idea how to motivate others. They simply think "well money motivates me, so I'll just talk about that over and over, it should motivate them too. I sold this specific way every time to every customer and I was successful. So I'm going to roll out a process where everybody is required to sell that way to every customer" and they lead horribly as a result. People aren't motivated. They aren't sold on the sales process. They don't following his process as a result, and the manager schemes up some new way to micromanage them into following his process. He's unhappy, the employees are unhappy, the entire store suffers as a result. The pressure, the angst and conflict are ratcheted up to a 10. Most people don't thrive under that. A few do, and they are held up as a beacon to the rest of the team. Which just adds in a a bit of resentment for that person by the rest of the team. Its a bad way to run things. But its not really abusive.
 

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Do you need some disquiet and rivalry in your life to find motivation to complete goals and/or feel alive?
Nope. I'm my own worst critic in term of goal setting. I make sure things get done. I don't need Bob from Accounting or Super Lawn Dave to motivate me.
THIS.

The best way to suck the life out of me is to give and nitpick. Let me do my thing my way and you'll get something awesome.

A lot of people in my field do all these extra steps to get from concept to finished product. Because those are the steps taught. I find them annoying. Kind of like note cards when you learn to write a paper in hugh school. I already know what I'm gonna write. Don't make me do dang cards!
 

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To motivate people, you have to show them the glory of success. It's not money or perks at least in my industry. It's whose lights shine in January at CES.

No point trying conflict or anger, they'll just walk out with a great job offer elsewhere.
Again, this is me. Appreciate me and I'll try even harder, do even more. Complain and nitpick, and motivation thanks. Constructive criticism is great. Haranguing is NOT

In fact, the best way to get me to listen is to listen to me too. Be an ass and I'll strive to be a more pointed ass or just shut down.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Not really. If they are asking you to do a specific job in a specific way, Its not abuse. Its just not always effective. Especially conaidering everyone is individually good at different things.

I'm not talking about operational processes or procedures either btw. You just do those. Maybe suggest better ones, with less redundancy that make the process much less of a headache. But otherwise, you just do what they ask here. Its usually up to some operational lead, not necessarily the person doing the coaching.

I'm in sales so I speak from a sales perspective. Some guys/girls like pressure and perform better under it. Some like to be left alone and perform better that way. Some need competition to thrive. Some need a clear goal in mind to shoot for. In terms of the goal, I'm not talking about a number really, or a dollar amount. Could be anything!

Maybe my rep John really wants a new car, so we sit down and look at his life. Literally every expense. Form a plan together on how he can get another $500/month to get that new car he wants. John needs to be coached every transaction to maximize his sales potential. A quick mid coach, "did you ask about xyz? What about ABC?" "No sir, I'll get right on that." Where Suzie just needs to be shown how to make the money, because she is motivated by money. But then she is better off left to sell however she likes. When I coach her on every transaction, she becomes more rigid and robot like through the sales process, and her numbers actually suffer. Jacob just needs free lunch. "If you sell 5 xyz, I'll buy you lunch tomorrow" and he will hit 4 to 5 that day, guarenteed. He wants that free lunch bad. After each one he's there to tell you "4 more" "3 more" "only one left, hope you feel like Chinese food tomorrow cause thats what we're eating." Randy, Sally, and Gabe need competition. A leader board. They need me to give them something to shoot for "the top rep in X catagory month to date will get a $300 bose Bluetooth speaker on me at the end of the month. You have to finish with xyz to qualify." Then just start crap between them. "Hey Randy, Gabe said you have no shot at getting that speaker." Just go around individually lighting little fires here and there.

Y'all get the idea. Some managers have no idea how to motivate others. They simply think "well money motivates me, so I'll just talk about that over and over, it should motivate them too. I sold this specific way every time to every customer and I was successful. So I'm going to roll out a process where everybody is required to sell that way to every customer" and they lead horribly as a result. People aren't motivated. They aren't sold on the sales process. They don't following his process as a result, and the manager schemes up some new way to micromanage them into following his process. He's unhappy, the employees are unhappy, the entire store suffers as a result. The pressure, the angst and conflict are ratcheted up to a 10. Most people don't thrive under that. A few do, and they are held up as a beacon to the rest of the team. Which just adds in a a bit of resentment for that person by the rest of the team. Its a bad way to run things. But its not really abusive.

Yeah, no. We're talking apples and oranges. That's okay. I've learned something.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
To motivate people, you have to show them the glory of success. It's not money or perks at least in my industry. It's whose lights shine in January at CES.

No point trying conflict or anger, they'll just walk out with a great job offer elsewhere.
I'm considering my options.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
THIS.

The best way to suck the life out of me is to give and nitpick. Let me do my thing my way and you'll get something awesome.

A lot of people in my field do all these extra steps to get from concept to finished product. Because those are the steps taught. I find them annoying. Kind of like note cards when you learn to write a paper in hugh school. I already know what I'm gonna write. Don't make me do dang cards!
Not sure I understand the "to give" part. Nitpicking is what I've been calling micromanaging, but I think our definitions aren't quite the same.

Edit; That's not quite right. Micromanaging is proving you have done everything you have, at most steps along the way, then finding out you didn't word things in your documents the exact way they would and are forced through demeaning and job threatening verbiage to change your wording, even when those who have to read and understand those documents have said they fully understand what was written and that is all that is required. This is just one example of what I am calling "micromanaging".

Many times, it is questions about every step along the path of project completion. This is odd, since things are done properly, yet it seems important I prove through hardcopies backing detailed explanation. This kind of thing happens on nearly a daily basis. Most others do not get the same treatment, though they do on occasion. When I've asked those folks, who should be doing more correctly on a regular basis than me, since they get less of this in their day to day, they don't understand what the issue is, since they either did the same or similarly and had no issues.

One woman I work with asked me if I was having a good day and I asked why. She said they aren't bothering you because they aren't here. I told her it felt odd and I didn't like it. I think I am getting used to it and that is frightening. It's like I am married again and accepting bad behavior because I almost believe something is my fault, though really, whatever is my fault is minor for the most part.

Sometimes, I wonder if that is abuse and harassment. It often feels like it.
 

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I absolutely loathe "angst and conflict." But that's just the person who I am! I'm a peace loving creature, but will crawl up someone's a$$ if they're condescending or abusive to someone else that will not take up for themselves!

My Dad, conversely, was the opposite of me as he seemed to thrive on it, and was so much more successful in life! I must have identified more with my sweet laid-back mother in that the acquisition of money has never really motivated me that much in life!
 

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Do you need some disquiet and rivalry in your life to find motivation to complete goals and/or feel alive?
You know, at first I thought you were thinking of someone who doesn't have enough drama in their life, so they "make up some drama" to feel the adrenaline. But I don't think that's what you're asking.

I think you are asking if we...* I * ...need some sort of goal, objective, end, or aim in order to be motivated to do my best. As an example, do I do my best work when I have nine things to do, nine hours, and no time to :bsflag: around? Or does the pressure and stress "get to me" and make the me less productive?

I freely admit I have ADD and I can be easily distracted if I don't discipline my mind. Thus, for me if I have nine things to do and nine hours, I excel. At those times, I seriously get **** done! However, in no way would I want to live like that all the time--that kind of motivational stress feels like a punch in the gut to me. I prefer the peaceful life.

On the other side of that coin, when I have too much "free time" I can wander too easily. Thus, in times that are less stressful...less urgent...I very much tend to be a creature of habit. I still rise early, make my bed first thing, walk early, write a letter, get to work at a set time, and schedule my day for my own self so that I stay on track. I still act a little like * I * am micro-managing myself. I don't feel the angst/conflict (and thus don't feel the punch in the gut) but I don't get too distracted either.

I am a big walker. I aim for 10,000 steps a day which is about 5 miles, and in order to motivate myself to meet that goal, I sign up for 5k races. Now, I do NOT run! LOL :p But I tell 'em up front I walk, I pay the fee, I show up and walk, and I earn the t-shirt. When I don't have a 5k coming up, I tend to be less "motivated" because I don't feel like I'm training. When I do have one coming up, I tend to be more disciplined, because in truth I am a little competitive and sporty. I have no desire to "win" but I do have a desire to compete! :D

Finally, if you REALLY want to motivate me and have me follow you around like a puppy forever, words of admiration. I take criticism okay, and I can and do listen and apply it to myself, but boy it hurts far more than I ever show. Criticism is like Anti-Admiration to me, and although I know it's usually said to help me be a better person, it hits my heart every time. On the other hand, Admiration is like angel music in my ears. I already don't think all that highly of myself--I work on that constantly--but if someone else says something, boy that rings in my ears like a bell all day and I feel like dancing. So if you want me to work for you day and night until the job is perfect, tell me what I'm doing right. Notice something I did that you just loved, and tell me. Yep words of admiration motivate me!
 

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Discussion Starter #33
You know, at first I thought you were thinking of someone who doesn't have enough drama in their life, so they "make up some drama" to feel the adrenaline. But I don't think that's what you're asking.

I think you are asking if we...* I * ...need some sort of goal, objective, end, or aim in order to be motivated to do my best. As an example, do I do my best work when I have nine things to do, nine hours, and no time to :bsflag: around? Or does the pressure and stress "get to me" and make the me less productive?

I freely admit I have ADD and I can be easily distracted if I don't discipline my mind. Thus, for me if I have nine things to do and nine hours, I excel. At those times, I seriously get **** done! However, in no way would I want to live like that all the time--that kind of motivational stress feels like a punch in the gut to me. I prefer the peaceful life.

On the other side of that coin, when I have too much "free time" I can wander too easily. Thus, in times that are less stressful...less urgent...I very much tend to be a creature of habit. I still rise early, make my bed first thing, walk early, write a letter, get to work at a set time, and schedule my day for my own self so that I stay on track. I still act a little like * I * am micro-managing myself. I don't feel the angst/conflict (and thus don't feel the punch in the gut) but I don't get too distracted either.

I am a big walker. I aim for 10,000 steps a day which is about 5 miles, and in order to motivate myself to meet that goal, I sign up for 5k races. Now, I do NOT run! LOL :p But I tell 'em up front I walk, I pay the fee, I show up and walk, and I earn the t-shirt. When I don't have a 5k coming up, I tend to be less "motivated" because I don't feel like I'm training. When I do have one coming up, I tend to be more disciplined, because in truth I am a little competitive and sporty. I have no desire to "win" but I do have a desire to compete! :D

Finally, if you REALLY want to motivate me and have me follow you around like a puppy forever, words of admiration. I take criticism okay, and I can and do listen and apply it to myself, but boy it hurts far more than I ever show. Criticism is like Anti-Admiration to me, and although I know it's usually said to help me be a better person, it hits my heart every time. On the other hand, Admiration is like angel music in my ears. I already don't think all that highly of myself--I work on that constantly--but if someone else says something, boy that rings in my ears like a bell all day and I feel like dancing. So if you want me to work for you day and night until the job is perfect, tell me what I'm doing right. Notice something I did that you just loved, and tell me. Yep words of admiration motivate me!

It was pretty much what you figured out. I wanted to know if others found more motivation in something a little less than angst, though I used that word for dramatic effect in the title.

The problem is, I can be motivated by micromanaging and abuse, as I described above, and then get stuck and believe it's something good, though it makes life tough. I might find myself feeding off the conflict and becoming charged when encountering it, though I truly am worn out at the end of the day. It's competition, but not like a race. It feels much more serious. There are higher stakes.

In the end, I sort of realized that I did that in both marriages and I am wondering, if I am susceptible to believing bad treatment is okay and a challenge, like healthy competition. I don't want to let myself get "beat up".

However, I wonder what the correct time is to move on. I don't want to do that too soon. I don't want to stay too long. I want to recognize bull crap and know when the situation calls for action.

I'm not even sure anyone really knows, but just takes a chance that they are making the right choices. I might be asking too much. I don't know. I just figured I'd start a conversation and see where it went, since I don't really know how to ask or what to say. I don't and can't reveal too much without getting in trouble.

Edit: this is about work, not a relationship. I just started connecting things as I thought about them.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
To give and nitpick should have been to HOVER and nitpick lol
I'll type emails and my manager will quietly stand behind me watching and reading as I type. It's startling when I realize he is there.

Edit: Sometimes, he will tell me not to word it in the way I did. Though, I'm constantly asking, "what do you mean"? His answer is to word it in a way that has an almost identical meaning, but are his words.

It's freaky and stifles my enthusiasm, though I find myself believing he is just harassing me. I tend to rise to the occasion and become more independent, or become beaten down and exhausted. Depends on how much sleep I get the night before, I've noticed.
 

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... The problem is, I can be motivated by micromanaging and abuse, as I described above, and then get stuck and believe it's something good, though it makes life tough. I might find myself feeding off the conflict and becoming charged when encountering it, though I truly am worn out at the end of the day. It's competition, but not like a race. It feels much more serious. There are higher stakes.

In the end, I sort of realized that I did that in both marriages and I am wondering, if I am susceptible to believing bad treatment is okay and a challenge, like healthy competition. I don't want to let myself get "beat up".

However, I wonder what the correct time is to move on. I don't want to do that too soon. I don't want to stay too long. I want to recognize bull crap and know when the situation calls for action.
I get that this is about work and not about a relationship, but it sounds to me like this is REALLY about self-awareness. Namely, whether it's work or marriages, you are considering whether or not you kind of "thrive" on bad treatment thinking of it like a challenge rather than recognizing that it's bad treatment. As an example, for me I was beaten by my mom every day as a child. I came to think of "love" as something that was abusive, and in my 30's when I learned that love was not abusive it was oddly shocking and paralyzing because I knew and understood abuse, and had no clue about what something healthy even looked like! The known (abuse) was less scary than the unknown (healthy).

In your instance, @2ntnuf, it seems to me that if you're asking the question, it's conceivable that there's more to think about here.

It's funny (unusual) that you'd ask us about "the correct time to move on" only because everyone has their own limits. I mean some people can really withstand and are patient and long-suffering--others not so much. Some people can stay content in any circumstance--others not so much. So I think some of this answer is for you to determine for yourself. What are your limits? What kind of temperament do you have? Do you want to learn to be more patient or are you okay with where you are on the patience-meter? Can you be content and create your own happiness no matter what's happening around you, or do the surroundings (and people) impact your contentment? All of these you'd have to answer yourself because you know yourself.

But in a super general way, maybe it's okay to recognize you are a sort of challenge-driven, competitive person (not ruthlessly, but you like a fair contest) AND that there is a limit to what's okay with you. See, I believe we all have a voice or point within us where we feel like "You know, this just is not okay with me" and that's where our boundary is. That's where we have an obligation to speak up and say out loud "This is not okay with me" and share the boundary and the consequence. I'd say it's pretty easy after that--the other person (whether boss, co-worker or relationship) is free to choose whatever they want, but if they trample the boundary, then the consequence is enacted.

As for me, personally? I am motivated by having to train, by being organized and scheduled, and by being admired. I know this about myself. I can excel in a crisis; I know this too. But I don't want crisis in my life all the time--the adrenaline is exhausting--and I do long for peace in my life. Peace, to me, means that it is more quiet with less pressure, but then that puts me in the seat of having to be responsible for motivating myself...and sharing whatever boundary may be in danger of being crossed.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Yes, you've surely understood me @Affaircare.


I think you are correct. I must make the decision. How important am I, to myself? I think I will work on making myself the most important thing in my life. Thank you.
 
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