[Mr Pink]

Long time reader, first post. Please forgive me if this is redundant and there are answers hidden within other posts. I do feel my situation is a bit different (dont we all) so I wanted to make my own post to get everyones thoughts. This totally isnt my style to write like this in a forum about my marriage, but Im willing to do what it takes to save my marriage....

About us - I met my wife when I 20 and living in a fraternity house. Young love, tons of sex, you get the idea. I am now 30, we dated for 7 years off and on, and got married 3 years ago. During those 7 years, we did break up once or twice (one time for a year), but always found our way back together. From my point of view, we didnt have sex enough so I felt like we were just roommates and from her point of view, I was just lazy and she was tired of 'taking care of me'. I think we were just growing up together and that made things difficult along the way. Since we got back together and married, we havent had a single major fight and we actually get along great..until about 3 months ago.

Fighting is rare for us. I dont use this term loosely, but we really are soul mates. We barely argue, we love spending time together, but other than the first year of dating, we have never really had that fire and passionate relationship. Well she started reading romance novels like 50 shades of grey, so you can imagine where this is going.

At first, she gave me the ILYBINILWY speech, and cited that we have never had that passion. "you never look at me, tell me im beautiful, passionately kiss me, etc'. At first I thought she was reading those books and wanted passion, so I started to lay it on and lay it on thick. I was actually excited because I have been trying to find ways for years to bring back the same level of sex that we had in our first year, with no avail. To my clueless male dismay, that backfired. Being very confused over the next month, I kept trying to be passionate and got the 'its all fake, you are just doing it because I said something and not because you want to'. Now in month 3, we have talked and fought many times since then and now where we are on this subject is she said 'we have never had a passionate relationship', so when I speak of finding a way to RE-kindle the fire, she just claims that we never had it to begin with so there is nothing to RE-discover, etc....

Long story short, we have talked about splitting up, not because we fight or argue, but mainly because we literally are just friends. To me, she is the object of my fantasies and I think she is a supermodel naked, but she is the one who said 'Im not sure if I could ever have sex with you again'. So the feeling isnt mutual, its her that doesnt not view me in that way anymore.

So this is what I am faced with, hopefully someone female can give me some insight into what is really going on. Ive told her many times, that we BOTH deserve that someone to be passionate about, and if Im not that guy for her, then go find him with my blessing! It sounds corny but I want the best for her, and Im young and good looking so Im not worried Ill find a girl....eventually:smthumbup:

It seems she doesnt want to actually split, but she said she will probably never have sex with me again. Is this true or is this some type of test to see if I will stay?

I make good money and she doesnt work, and she could barely make 10$ an hour if she did, I think part of the reason she stays with me is the financial security and the lifestyle i provide...Do women really stay with someone that repulses them sexually but takes care of them financially in this day and age? We dont have kids so its not like she is staying so our children have a place to grow.

Its weird, she is super sensitive about some things but super cold about others. So its hard to classify her. I am sensitive in the sense that I care about her needs and will honor the commitment I made to her and her dad to take care of her, for better or for worse. I am not sure how long I can stay in a sexless marriage, so if she is 99% of what my ideal wife would be, but that 1% is missing, is that enough to stay/leave? Not to be graphic, but I can take care of that 1% manually, but if we split, I assume I could find a girl that we had crazy animal sex, but the other 99% would probably be missing...so what is the right decision?

Ive read countless marriage books, like 5 Love Languages, etc. I will let her know very subtly that I am reading them, and she just gets more agitated. I am a problem solver, so I have obsessed over this all summer, but it seems every solution I find and every talk we have, just puts us in a deeper hole....I thought that since she brought this up, she wanted me to work on it, but it seems she was content bringing up the problem 3 months ago then not doing a single thing to fix it....do I keep trying things or is it best to 'act' like nothing is wrong? Ive heard everything from shower her with constant love to basically ignore her and she will come back to me....

I know there is no perfect formula and every situation is different, and that its hard to encapsulate 10 years of a relationship in a 5 minute post...but no matter what I do (go full bore problem solve mode or ignore any and all problems), it doesnt seem to be getting better, though granted its only been a few months.

I do not want to separate, but I will if she wants to find that special someone. We both deserve that. Ive reassured her that i will still support her if we are separated till she got on her feet, and we would prob still be friends. We even joked about our future spouses not liking our relationship that we would probably still have, but she still doesnt seem to bite when i offer her a separation. I guess I am just looking for general advice and understanding...not sure why she would bring up our lack of romance or that we are only friends/roommates then not do a single thing to fix it or respond to anything I am doing.....what is the right engagement formula....what is the best way for her to want me again ( I say again but maybe its more appropriate to say for the first time)...sorry for the long post and thanks for reading...Thoughts?

 

[jfv]

Sorry you are going through this. How sure are you that there isn't someone else already? Make certain because I'm sure you wouldn't want to support her affair.

 

[Hellioness]

From a woman's perspective. She doesn't want to leave for the exact reason you though, the financial security.
I agree with jfv, make sure she isn't cheating. It sounds to me like she'll have sex with you so that she doesn't end up having to support herself but if she's as unhappy and she claims she WILL cheat on you. When she finds someone else who can support her to the same if not a greater degree than you do, then she'll leave.

You owe it to yourself not to let yourself be used in that manner. For no reason should you support her in anyway if she is done with the marriage. All she's doing is biding her time until she can move on to the next man.

 

[Mr Pink]

From a woman's perspective. She doesn't want to leave for the exact reason you though, the financial security.
I agree with jfv, make sure she isn't cheating. It sounds to me like she'll have sex with you so that she doesn't end up having to support herself but if she's as unhappy and she claims she WILL cheat on you. When she finds someone else who can support her to the same if not a greater degree than you do, then she'll leave.

You owe it to yourself not to let yourself be used in that manner. For no reason should you support her in anyway if she is done with the marriage. All she's doing is biding her time until she can move on to the next man.

I have thought about this, which has led to some obsessive spying on my part. She doesnt work so there isnt any type of office fling going on. She barely leaves the house, I honestly think she is just really depressed all the time. She doesnt know that I check her phone, email and texts and so far I havent found anything, so while anything is possible, I dont think she is cheating.......yet.

So then what am I to do? Its hard for me to create a loving environment and try my hardest to do the things she needs me to do, when I dont see her lifting a finger to work on the things I have said I need. However, the second I basically mirror her behavior, our marriage is probably over. How long do I give it to where I can safely say that she most likely will never have sex with me again and we need to get on with our lives? So far we have gone about 5 months.

One thing that is also weird, is that during the summer we would have talks once a week or so about the logistics of splitting up. Without actually coming to any decision, we usually talk for hours about that topic then go to bed. Then within the next couple of days, she will be saying things to me like 'when we are 40 lets do this, or when we are older lets do that'. huh? We even went to a funeral the other day and she said 'you know my wishes are to be cremated right?' Strange to be talking about that type of stuff, which I assume would happen when we are elderly, when just the day before we were talking about splitting....women really confuse me

 

[jfv]

Have you talked about counseling? Individual or Marriage?

 

[Mr Pink]

Have you talked about counseling? Individual or Marriage?

I speak to an individual counselor that she does not know about, she just speaks to all her married and unhappy friends that compound the problem. We have talked about counseling indirectly before and I know she doesnt believe in it. She feels that if it gets to that point it isnt solvable anyways. She used to frequent them in her teens for her depression so she has a bad impression of who they are and what they do. My counselor just says that I should either press for separation if my daily life is unhappy or just wait it out and let her figure it out on her own. Dont really like either of those ideas, but everytime we have talked and tried to fix things, its gotten worse, so I dont know

 

[Hellioness]

I have thought about this, which has led to some obsessive spying on my part. She doesnt work so there isnt any type of office fling going on. She barely leaves the house, I honestly think she is just really depressed all the time. She doesnt know that I check her phone, email and texts and so far I havent found anything, so while anything is possible, I dont think she is cheating.......yet.

So then what am I to do? Its hard for me to create a loving environment and try my hardest to do the things she needs me to do, when I dont see her lifting a finger to work on the things I have said I need. However, the second I basically mirror her behavior, our marriage is probably over. How long do I give it to where I can safely say that she most likely will never have sex with me again and we need to get on with our lives? So far we have gone about 5 months.

One thing that is also weird, is that during the summer we would have talks once a week or so about the logistics of splitting up. Without actually coming to any decision, we usually talk for hours about that topic then go to bed. Then within the next couple of days, she will be saying things to me like 'when we are 40 lets do this, or when we are older lets do that'. huh? We even went to a funeral the other day and she said 'you know my wishes are to be cremated right?' Strange to be talking about that type of stuff, which I assume would happen when we are elderly, when just the day before we were talking about splitting....women really confuse me

Why would you want to stay in the marriage when she's unhappy and obviously doesn't want to take the time to make it work? Why are you deciding rather or not to move on by rather or not she'll have sex with you? Is that the most important thing in your relationship? Is it more important than your happiness? Than feeling loved and feeling that she WANTS to make things work and make you happy?

Right now she knows that no matter what she does/doesn't do or say you'll be there, you're a safe bet and she knows that if she stays in the marriage while looking for the man she'd rather be with you'll be there, if that affair ends, no harm no foul on her part, she still has you to fall back on and doesn't have to worry about taking care of herself.

 

[Hellioness]

I speak to an individual counselor that she does not know about, she just speaks to all her married and unhappy friends that compound the problem. We have talked about counseling indirectly before and I know she doesnt believe in it. She feels that if it gets to that point it isnt solvable anyways. She used to frequent them in her teens for her depression so she has a bad impression of who they are and what they do. My counselor just says that I should either press for separation if my daily life is unhappy or just wait it out and let her figure it out on her own. Dont really like either of those ideas, but everytime we have talked and tried to fix things, its gotten worse, so I dont know

Well those are your only two options. What is it that you want? Is it something you can reasonably have? I think your counselor is right in suggesting you press for separation. At the very least stop showing her that no matter what you're there for her and you'll do everything you can to keep her. That is serving no purpose but making you miserable and showing her that even though she doesn't give a flying fornication about you or your feelings you're willing to put up with it.

 

[Mtts]

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're encountering. Sounds similar in many aspects to my quite sudden and awkward split with my wife.

All of the following is my opinion but it's the best I can do so take it for what it's worth.

Your wife, like stated above, doesn't really have much to lose right now. You've made sure she knows she is immune to repercussions if she goes out doing as she pleases. My frist advice, stop that. Let her know you want to have a fulfilling marraige and if she's come to the conclusion that she can't have that with you file for divorce. Skip separation unless state required and just file. This makes her vocal proclamations real. She'll have to decide how firm she is in this choice.

Second thing, the friends who you mentioned, those will hamper all efforts. If she is going to them talking about your efforts. It's likely you've been painted as this slithering, belly crawler who's just out looking to score. She probably isn't very kind in her "version" of what's going on and her friends will either agree or likely encourage further behaviors. This will keep recovery from occurring or at best slow it a great deal.

This is your life and your marriage but from my perspective and where I've been, your wife thinks your just a "nice guy." She'll definitely enjoy freedom at first but the real world is harsh. Romance novels, books, whatever she's into can really distort reality and friends who are unhappy or divorced are going to burden her with their own fallacies of the real world. Fight for it through tuff choices. If she really wants to work at it in the end, you'll only know when you choose to truly set her free to do so.

Just as a piece of hopefully uplifting news, my wife shortly after filing came running to me after feeling the cold air out there and couldn't try and start marriage counseling fast enough. Also having had some depression issues previously.

Can't say it's a sure fire way to work at it, but it's the best shot you got. Read 180 and try it on, sometimes we just need to let them really live life without us for them to remember it wasn't the "magical, adventurouos life" they seem to remember it as.

Best wishes

A brother in vows!

 

[Mr Pink]

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're encountering. Sounds similar in many aspects to my quite sudden and awkward split with my wife.

All of the following is my opinion but it's the best I can do so take it for what it's worth.

Your wife, like stated above, doesn't really have much to lose right now. You've made sure she knows she is immune to repercussions if she goes out doing as she pleases. My frist advice, stop that. Let her know you want to have a fulfilling marraige and if she's come to the conclusion that she can't have that with you file for divorce. Skip separation unless state required and just file. This makes her vocal proclamations real. She'll have to decide how firm she is in this choice.

Second thing, the friends who you mentioned, those will hamper all efforts. If she is going to them talking about your efforts. It's likely you've been painted as this slithering, belly crawler who's just out looking to score. She probably isn't very kind in her "version" of what's going on and her friends will either agree or likely encourage further behaviors. This will keep recovery from occurring or at best slow it a great deal.

This is your life and your marriage but from my perspective and where I've been, your wife thinks your just a "nice guy." She'll definitely enjoy freedom at first but the real world is harsh. Romance novels, books, whatever she's into can really distort reality and friends who are unhappy or divorced are going to burden her with their own fallacies of the real world. Fight for it through tuff choices. If she really wants to work at it in the end, you'll only know when you choose to truly set her free to do so.

Just as a piece of hopefully uplifting news, my wife shortly after filing came running to me after feeling the cold air out there and couldn't try and start marriage counseling fast enough. Also having had some depression issues previously.

Can't say it's a sure fire way to work at it, but it's the best shot you got. Read 180 and try it on, sometimes we just need to let them really live life without us for them to remember it wasn't the "magical, adventurouos life" they seem to remember it as.

Best wishes

A brother in vows!

So a little bit of an update and a response to this post. First off thank you for reading and giving your feedback. Unlike her, I am trying to get objective feed back from people who have gone through this while, you are right, she is getting advice from friends who think im a sleeze bag and are probably convincing her that she needs to go hook up with college dudes.

So we had a huge long talk last night, and figured out a few things. We have been best friends for 10 years, and maybe have been fooling ourselves that that alone is a reason to get married or that being best friend turns into romance. Her main issue with me is that I dont give her the romantic feelings she needs to feel like a woman, and I dont get from her all the intimate and sexual feelings I need to feel like a man. We have decided that we are going to separate, but live in the same house, in different rooms. In theory, what we are trying to do is eliminate that component from our relationship, and see what happens. In the end, if we never get back together, we have both decided that we want to remain friends into the future, regardless if we both remarry. Obviously that is one path, the second being that maybe if we are on the way out, she will 'run back to me' as the previous poster put it.

I do feel that works though, because we broke up for a year a while back and when she heard I was with someone else she was basically at my door stop crying in the rain for weeks trying to get me back. However now that we are married, I dont want to go date someone just to have that happen.

We are in the process of defining rules for this separation, and we really are going to try and act like we are just best friend/roommates to try and see if we can enjoy each other again. Does this sound like wishful thinking or has anyone had any experience doing this?

 

[richie33]

Wishful thinking. No kids involved makes the decision so much easier. Its not your problem if on her own she would make $10 a hour. There is no reason she is not working now. If she was your guy friend you would tell him man up and make your own way in life. Dude your too young to be in a sexless marriage.
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[Mr Pink]

Wishful thinking. No kids involved makes the decision so much easier. Its not your problem if on her own she would make $10 a hour. There is no reason she is not working now. If she was your guy friend you would tell him man up and make your own way in life. Dude your too young to be in a sexless marriage.
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I agree that it is wishful thinking that we can ignore those feelings and they will magically come back, and it may sound corny but I do want to be friends with her even if we arent married. Our plan is to actually get her back on her feet, her finish her degree, etc, so she can self sustain, and then evaluate from there to see if we should be together. I told her that I dont want her dependance on me financially to be the sole reason to stick with me, whether she admits it or not.

 

[richie33]

Your going to do all that for her, financially support her to get her degree and then get divorced? So another guy can benefit from her getting a career? I know you love her and she is your best friend and all but where is the fairness in all this? You think her next man is going to be happy having you hanging around?You sound like a good guy so I hope I am not coming across mean spirited but you doing all this and all you want is a little intimacy and her response is a strict NO. Doesn't seem fair.
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[Mr Pink]

Your going to do all that for her, financially support her to get her degree and then get divorced? So another guy can benefit from her getting a career? I know you love her and she is your best friend and all but where is the fairness in all this? You think her next man is going to be happy having you hanging around?You sound like a good guy so I hope I am not coming across mean spirited but you doing all this and all you want is a little intimacy and her response is a strict NO. Doesn't seem fair.
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You do have a great point and trust me I have totally thought about that, but here is where I am coming from on this point. In our early 20s, she worked while I didnt. She supported me while I was in school and financially took care of me. For her, it was an investment that paid off, because now I make a good salary and she doesnt need to work. So its not necessarily that I am 'prepping' her for her next husband, but more or less paying her back so that she can self sustain. Im not talking about paying for school or anything like that, just providing a house and paying bills that I would be paying anyways till she gets on her feet. Not sure if its my delusional sense of honor or what, but it only seems fair when you take the emotions out of it. Even if things dont work out between us, I dont want to see her in a gutter somewhere, but I also dont want her to take advantage of a free ride while she is searching for her next husband. So complicated....

 

[richie33]

If you even have doubts that she might be taking advantage of you I would be concerned. You should be 100% positive she will appreciate this gesture. In the end this turns out bad for you this will scar you for future relationships. I feel for you. You want to do the right thing. But ask yourself what's the right thing for YOU? Be a little selfish. She has.
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[Mtts]

The statement "alls fair in love and war" comes to mind. As another poster mentioned, not to be mean but I wouldn't hold this lofty sense of honor for her. Not that she is a bad person and deserves to be abandoned but she made a committment when marrying you. A committment that isn't about being just friends, which seemingly she took quite lightly.

You don't owe her anything really, if she's choosing to take another path in life, it's exactly that, her choice. However choices should have pro's and con's. To me it seems like you are making her choice pretty easy, why not use this oppertunity to invest in yourself and your own interests. She has made it clear she's not interested in you and out of perhaps selfish preservations I would cut her loose.

Living in the same house separated doesn't work. My wife and I tried that and one of two things happens.
A: You don't end up sleeping alone, someone wakes up, climbs in the others bed and all bets are off as to whether sleeping, cuddling, etc. happens.
B: One of you ends up finding interest outside the home. This leads to the other becoming distraught, stressed and crushed by it. There are few things more damaging than having someone you truly love without compromise reject you. Worse yet is seeing them build a new life with another person.

My thoughts are you've set yourself up for a life of hurt and pain. You do sound like a good guy and if your current wife doesn't seem to find that worth while or attractive then what's the point? I can understand you still wanting to be friends, which you may remain friends. I will say that even for as much as I care for my wife, had things not worked out and I was making it very easy for her as well, I probably wouldn't associate with her for some time to come.

You got to do what's best for you and only you can decide how to proceed. I just hope that you don't think too much of personal honor and more of personal preservation. Integrity, honor and upholding your vows are all very good. I see my obligations(having no children)ending at the severing of my wife and I's union. She wants to separate/divorce, should mean exactly that, separate lives.

 

[ms.beesknees]

Sounds to me like you are confusing what turns men on, and what turns women on. You say "she looks like a supermodel" but for us women it is what we HEAR that gets us going. Not so much what we see. I am familiar with the "your only doing it because I complained" excuse, and its like dammed if I do, dammed if I dont. But tell her why is that bad? You care enough to meet her needs- she needs to see that. Just keep giving her words of affirmation, and if she gives you the excuse telll her you always thought these things about her just did not realize she needed to hear them. She wants to know you are genuine in your compliments, and it sounds like you are best of luck!

 

[WorkingOnMe]

Oh brother. She wants to be separated so she can play the field and get the passion she wants. But she wants to continue living in the house with you paying all the bills. lol she's a cake eater. And you're allowing this??? What's she got on you? Pictures of you killing puppies or something? Why would you roll over like this?

So, will you be ok with her bringing her dates home for a little fun? How about if she wants to move a new boyfriend in, will you be paying his bills too?

I just can't wrap my mind around this. Why would you subject yourself to financially supporting a woman who is not acting as your wife?

 

[Hellioness]

Oh brother. She wants to be separated so she can play the field and get the passion she wants. But she wants to continue living in the house with you paying all the bills. lol she's a cake eater. And you're allowing this??? What's she got on you? Pictures of you killing puppies or something? Why would you roll over like this?

So, will you be ok with her bringing her dates home for a little fun? How about if she wants to move a new boyfriend in, will you be paying his bills too?

I just can't wrap my mind around this. Why would you subject yourself to financially supporting a woman who is not acting as your wife?

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Besides what she did at the beginning of your relationship was an investment in the relationship so that she wouldn't have to work later (you said so yourself). What you would be doing now by working to support her is NOT an investment in your relationship it's an investment in her FUTURE relationship with another man.

 

[Mr Pink]

You all have made great points and have given me much to think about. I really hate myself right now bc I am thinking of putting her before my own needs when I KNOW I shouldn't. I also feel like a chump bc I will be ok for a week on the path of separation and then I just look at her a certain way and think "I can do this" and start planning really cheesy romantic gestures....when will this flip flopping stop?