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Discussion Starter #1
This is why "nice guys" get a bad rep sometimes. It is very frustrating to live with one!

H's birthday is coming up. Every birthday, I make him a cake and either cook him a special meal or go to a nice restaurant - his choosing. So, its only a few days away and I would like to know what he wants, so I can either plan and shop for the meal or make sure we have reservations for the restaurant he chooses.

What do you want to do for dinner on your birthday?
- Oh, I dunno...let's just order pizza?
Really? Wouldn't you like to do something a little nicer than that? Do you really just want pizza?
- Well, I don't want to have you go to any trouble, you'll be working and wont want to cook when you get home...
(Side note - this is not a true statement, as I come home from work and cook dinner for the family every night, I enjoy doing it and he knows that!)
Can't you just tell me what you really want? I told you its no trouble. I want to do something nice for you!
- I dont know, what do you want to do that night?
You didnt answer my question. I asked you what YOU want for YOUR biethday, i wasnt asking you to try to guess what I wanted. Just tell me!
-Well I was thinking it might be nice to go to that new sushi restaurant...but you probably wouldn't want to go all the way there on a Fri night after work, right?
I don't mind, I think that sounds like a nice idea.

No matter how many times I ask him to plainly tell me what he wants, a conversation filled with hemming and hawing ensues.

A similar conversation went down about his cake - started with him telling me to buy one (when we both know he hates the taste of store bought cakes), then trying to guess what would be easiest for me to make, then actually telling me a specific cake he clearly wanted.

Then, just a couple of hours later, he does this -

-I got invited to a football party this Sunday at the presidents (of his company) house, but I already told them no that I was busy that day
Why did you do that?! You know we don't have plans on Sunday.
-Well, I figured you wouldn't want me to go.
Why would you think that? I have always encouraged you to go to things like that, and if the president invited you to his house don't you think you should go?
- Yea, but whatever. I already told them no.
Are the other managers going?
- Yea, everyone but me.
So, don't you think you should probably go?
- I guess...you really don't mind?
No! I told you to go!

Seriously ...why can't he just come to me like a normal human being, tell me he's going out for the game on Sunday. I have never given him a hard time, so the PA comments irk me to my core!

And, before you mention it, he's already read NMMNG and I don't think it sank in.
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I think, the next time I am asked what I want, I am going to be slightly unrealistic. Maybe I will get what I want and "damn the torpedoes". Why should I worry if it inconveniences her? She will tell me, right?
If she doesn't, that's her fault.
 

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So he's like this all the time? Or is the dynamic different because you're trying to do something special for his birthday and he normally isn't the object of attention?
 

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And, before you mention it, he's already read NMMNG and I don't think it sank in.
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kag123,

My humble opinion is that if he read the book and it didn't sink in then his challenges are due to something other than what is covered in the book so continue to help him and encourage him down different avenues.

I have the same problems with my wife (and she is certainly not a "nice guy" with regards to me) and this is how I currently handle it:

What do you want to do for dinner on your birthday?
- Oh, I dunno...
OK. Let's go out for sushi

...

-I got invited to a football party this Sunday at the presidents (of his company) house, but I already told them no that I was busy that day
OK
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Nope this is all.the.time....

Does anyone else see how frustrating this is? From simple things like going to the grocery store together, to the big things like buying a house together, it has been this way since we married.
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My wife is the same. I never know what she really want. She say that she would rather stay at home EVERY night as a family.

One b-day she was so passive about a cake that I didn't even get one. Geez, I'll never do that again!

It seems as though she doesn't want me to do anything nice for her. If I were to guess...If I do something nice for her, she would feel obligated to do something nice for me!

I have to force my wife to get out and do something. I want to get out and do things also. If she doesn't, then I feel bad if I go out and leave her home with our daghter.

Don't know if any of that applies.
 

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Mine is really picky about food but really unhelpful about choosing dinner. I'll eat anything that's not super meat heavy, but him? PFFFT!!!!

When we go grocery shopping, we sort of just stand there and I worry about picking food out he won't like, so I'm reluctant to grab anything new, even though I really want something new.

When it comes to buying a home (We're trying to do that now) he just seems impossible to please. Won't give any insight onto what he wants except "4 bed, 2 baths" and then when I find something he has a bunch of other things he now wants. I never know if hes happy with a present because at first he never shows enthusiasm even if he likes it.

SUCKS NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU STAND!

7 years and counting here!

Men :Eyeroll:
 

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As far as birthdays are concerned, I'm not convinced it's a "nice guy" thing. All the men in my life hate to make a fuss over their birthday (I think they all hate being reminded that they're getting older, lol).

But I can understand your frustration. Indecisive people drive everyone crazy.
 

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One b-day she was so passive about a cake that I didn't even get one. Geez, I'll never do that again!

It seems as though she doesn't want me to do anything nice for her. If I were to guess...If I do something nice for her, she would feel obligated to do something nice for me!
Engaging in mind reading can be very dangerous. Encourage your wife to share her motivations with you and if she doesn't, she doesn't. Do what you think is right and don't try to guess what's in her head.
 

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You have to be direct with him.

Dear, your wishy washy indecision is a big turn off. I need you to be a man.

Or if he says Pizza then give it to him... And give him no sex either.
 

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Or, like me, he could really just be so easy going it doesn't matter.

This frustrated my ex. Very often it was where we were going out to eat. If I was really craving something I would suggest it, but otherwise, I knew wherever we went I'd find something on the menu I was happy with. I'm just not hard to please. Really. No P/A behavior, no ulterior motive.

Yes, I'm really just that easy. Life is good! I'm happy going out and don't care where! :D
 

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Nope this is all.the.time....

Does anyone else see how frustrating this is? From simple things like going to the grocery store together, to the big things like buying a house together, it has been this way since we married.
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Ugh. So he never has an opinion about anything? Assuming that there aren't problems in other areas of your relationship which could cause him to hold back in this area (example: ask his input about something and then always reject it or hold it against him somehow), I would be tempted to make a cake you know he doesn't like and make reservations at a restaurant you know he doesn't like. Then later you could have a discussion about the true meaning of "I don't care" and "You decide." If he still doesn't get it, you will have to escalate.
 

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It's obvious what is going on... He's conflict avoidant and affraid of making his wife mad at him... WHY? BECUASE HE THINKS SHE WILL STOP HAVING SEX WITH HIM... Therefore you have to train him into behaving like a man = sex... and behaving like a wussy = no sex.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ugh. So he never has an opinion about anything? Assuming that there aren't problems in other areas of your relationship which could cause him to hold back in this area (example: ask his input about something and then always reject it or hold it against him somehow), I would be tempted to make a cake you know he doesn't like and make reservations at a restaurant you know he doesn't like. Then later you could have a discussion about the true meaning of "I don't care" and "You decide." If he still doesn't get it, you will have to escalate.
Actually, its worse than that.

Most of the time, yes he's easy going and will live with whatever decision I ultimately make (due to his lack of using his voice).

Sometimes though, he refuses to tell me what he wants, but will not hesitate to tell me later that he DOESN'T like what I chose.

He did this when we were buying a house. We literally ALMOST closed on a house, only to find out minutes before I called to realtor to close the deal that he didn't really like the house that much and had only been going through with it because he thought I was in love with it. I was livid that he didn't tell me sooner about his opinions!!

To try to put an example to this - if I took him to a restaurant I know he doesn't like, he would refuse to order anything and would sit there while I ate. If I asked him why he wasn't eating he would tell me he doesn't like the food there.

Another example - our basement flooded and we had to replace the carpet. Thru the whole carpet buying process, he was silent...bored even. I asked his opinion, he shooed me away. So, I picked a carpet, got it installed, and now it's done. It's been in for about six months now and we are having some problems with the carpet wearing funny on the stair treads. He looked at me the other day and said "I knew this carpet was a bad choice! Its cheap! You should have picked the nicer carpet!"

Wtf. Where was this opinion six months ago when I asked for it?

I have learned the hard way not to EXPLODE when he does this. Instead I now say, Your right dear, this is all my fault and then walk away to end the conversation.
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Why don't you just say ILYNILWY go have your EA and let me get a hold of him..

I was him.

I got better. Much better. Strong-beta. Alpha when I need to be. The leader of my marriage.

T2

Your husband is terrified to stand up to you. He doesn't want to upset he sex stipend. He feels lucky to have even found a wife who lets him sometimes get sex. That is awesome to him. He absolutely adores you and will bend over backwards for you hoping you don't leave him.
You are way to Alpha for him to feel comfortable to change. Because hes afraid of making you upset if he doesn't do it right. You scare him.

He needs to learn this on his own... you can't change him.
You are not his MOM so he will not listen to you.

ONLY HE CAN CHANGE HIMSELF... people don't change unless they HAVE TO.

Its like anything... he doesn't see anything wrong.
Its like an addiction to gambling... when you do it you see no wrong... no one can tell you to stop gambling... only YOU can decide to stop gambling and it usually is becuse you came to your own realization it was lame and a waste of money.

You are stuck until he feels the need to change for himself... only choice you have is to threaten his 'perfect' marriage. Wake him up... blindside him. Do a 180 and scare the hell out of him.

Hopefully he wakes up.

Or continue to gripe about it and accept him as is.
Be careful you might wake up a new husband.

You picked the nice guy... live with it OR shake things up so he gets it!
Upset that apple cart and let him scramble to pick up the apples.

To this day I thank my wife for saying to me ILYNILWY (I used it as a challenge). Our marriage needed fixed and later I used it against her to correct her significant issues I never noticed before. Now we are on track to a fantastic "fair" balanced marriage... and yes I'm still nice...mostly.

Takes a major event to affect major change.
Its hard and takes time.
 

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If he's that way about everything its a problem. I can agree with him on the birthday thou.

I don't really care about my own birthday. I'd be fine if the day came and went without meantion. My other half always wants to do something big and special.
 

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Another example - our basement flooded and we had to replace the carpet. Thru the whole carpet buying process, he was silent...bored even. I asked his opinion, he shooed me away. So, I picked a carpet, got it installed, and now it's done. It's been in for about six months now and we are having some problems with the carpet wearing funny on the stair treads. He looked at me the other day and said "I knew this carpet was a bad choice! Its cheap! You should have picked the nicer carpet!"

Wtf. Where was this opinion six months ago when I asked for it?
I think I get it now. He may be so afraid to voice his opinion because he is afraid it may be wrong. If he lets you make ALL the decisions, he can come back later to blame you for the bad carpet, the wrong house, the bad restraunt... It will be all your fault! How can he be wrong if he didn't voice he opinion. And it was your fault that he didn't go to the presidents football party! After all, he didn't go because of YOU!

What you have learned and what many people know is already is that we have to be decisive, even if it means we may be wrong at times.
 
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