[RandomDude]

Ok fellas, just an update, thoughts welcome. Yesterday my STBX and I had a rather awkward talk, I tried to keep thing business-like but it only made it more frustrating for my STBX. However in the end considering she's been wanting to know where we're at from my point of view, I decided to be semi-honest with her. We agreed on civil terms, no shouting, just honest talk.

I didn't tell her how I felt, that's just risky at the moment. However I did bring up our dynamics, that sex was the most obvious but the most shallow of our problems. She agreed and mostly listened at this point, so I told her what I've figured out so far, how we ended up here -> as we were practically inseperable over 5 years ago.

Her version of our rapidly spiralling downhill relationship however...
She agreed that our dynamics have been warped starting from 5 years ago, and reminded me that she felt as if I was abandoning her at that time due to lack of support for her bible college etc (We got into fights during this time due to strongly conflicting beliefs - namely tolerance/intolerance/me being "pagan" and going to hell etc etc). And after I cheated on her (due to this issue) she told me that her faith pummeled, and told me that I can't blame her church for everything that has happened to us. This time I was curious, so I listened...

She mentioned one thing that did catch my attention. She said that for years she's been wanting to bridge/repair our inter-religious differences (though admitted her fundamentalism/evangelism was the wrong approach) with me because she felt the same way about what happened to us and feared growing apart (irony). She said that when I cheated on her, her faith pummeled, then when I used the D word on her 2 years ago (my 180 due to the inter-religious dramas we had), her faith pummeled again. She says that she doesn't want me to think that she's blaming me for everything but wishes from time to time I actually listen to see how I've been hurting her, her beliefs and hence I've apparently restricted her own spiritual growth which she still needed 7 years ago to heal from her past (that kinda hit me). Now she feels lost and doesn't know what to believe anymore.

To be honest... I couldn't really say sh-t, but I understood, and told her that. It cleared alot of the air, but a while later, here comes the sex discussion. She asked me if I've been looking, I told her that I have a potential date but have decided against seeing her. She asked me why, so I told her. I told her that I'm not seeing her for the off chance of reconciliation (half true, real truth is = I just want to keep the peace). Anyways she said that she's not interested in dating at the moment, but gave me free reign. I rejected it however, not unless she's going to do it. So now, we've agreed to torture ourselves sexually for absolutely no reason then the off chance of possible reconciliation... meh

Anyways, well, that's our talk. It... explained alot.
Thoughts?

 

[diwali123]

So when you met you were Pagan and she was an escort? And then she had a conversion experience, went to bible college and decided that you had to convert too?
I'm sorry man but she sounds really unstable and I feel in my gut she has a lot of borderline personality traits.
I don't get how someone can expect their spouse to convert just because they did. In the end what difference does it make to her life? If she can't deal with it then that's her issue. I question why she had to choose such a severe religion. She seems to really like extremes.
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[sinnister]

Just the words Bible college scare the crap out of me.

 

[RandomDude]

So when you met you were Pagan and she was an escort? And then she had a conversion experience, went to bible college and decided that you had to convert too?
I'm sorry man but she sounds really unstable and I feel in my gut she has a lot of borderline personality traits.
I don't get how someone can expect their spouse to convert just because they did. In the end what difference does it make to her life? If she can't deal with it then that's her issue. I question why she had to choose such a severe religion. She seems to really like extremes.
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When we met she was already a Christian for 2 years. I've always been "pagan", and for the first 2 years together she was ANYTHING but fundamentalist/evangelist. She accepted everyone, showed great wisdom and treated her faith as more of a spirituality then a religion, she was also active at that time, wanted to help out other women who went through what she went through, and when she led the services she never asked for offerings - one of her grievances with the church at that time who insisted on half hour guilt-trip speeches prior to ushers going around asking for money - my STBX just left an offering box, skipped the guilt speech, and ironically... she got it - people still donated, even from non-christians who were impressed by her message. She was very confident, yet humble -> deflected compliments towards her god. And at that time, she was very stable, fun, seductive without having to flaunt it, hell... at that time she was PERFECT for me... *sigh*

She was practically an angel/dark angel at that time to be honest, then... bible college. I don't know who's really at fault to be honest, the thing is, she's right that I wasn't very supportive, but at the same time it's because I started seeing her change from the woman I loved into becoming the very thing she told me herself that she will never become. She said that I can't blame the church which is true but I can't dismiss what they have done to her. A part of me wonders if I had been supportive of her (doesn't have to be in agreement), if she would have survived bible college intact.

The sad thing is that she did lose her dream of opening her own service to help out women from her past, not only has she married a "pagan" but looks like she's very confused with her faith. I believe she has become too dependent on her god to fix herself, but that's just me. Now that her faith has dwindled, it's of no use to her anymore, and she hates counselling.

I don't know anymore...

Just the words Bible college scare the crap out of me.

Yes, and I still have a personal vendetta against that church despite my STBX insisting that I shouldn't blame them all for everything. My STBX wasn't the only victim either:

Bad PR forces Hillsong counselling closure - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

My STBX was at a very vulnerable position 5 years ago, she was on fire for her god but had little church influence, she followed her heart and inner voice, she wanted to go through with bible college to learn more as well as to certify her for ministry. Bad mistake it seems, considering she lost not only herself, but her 'fix', and marrying me she lost the support of the church, and now she stands to lose everything.

*sigh* funny though, it seems that now she's ALSO out of the snow globe, think she understands now how fked up our marital dynamics really became.

 

[RandomDude]

:scratchhead:

*sigh*, everything is so complicated, yet now it's strangely all making sense, her sex drive, our dynamics, the STs, her dependence, everything...

ACK

I don't know why I'm feeling this way but... think I'm starting to pity her, just feel like protecting her from all this for some reason. Doesn't help to know that this is going to be the last straw for her, I'm not even sure if I can let her go really, knowing I will destroy her.

 

[SimplyAmorous]

Random Dude said: Anyways she said that she's not interested in dating at the moment, but gave me free reign. I rejected it however, not unless she's going to do it. So now, we've agreed to torture ourselves sexually for absolutely no reason then the off chance of possible reconciliation... meh

Well ...you've tortured yourself with TOO much sex.... might as well torture yourself with abstaining for awhile -figuring all of this out...if you have a chance to reconcile, it would be best if you didn't take up with another women during this time....this will just cause her more hurt, that she is not worth waiting for...regardless of what she says (giving you free reign)

It will still hurt like hell that hurdle will have to be overcome down the road, so good to eliminate it ....during this dry spell.

It's good you're opening all of this up -not fighting, and not having sex afterwards ... this is an amazing feat isn't it?

Sounds like Bible College zapped her free spirit, too much conformity there.

 

[RandomDude]

Well ...you've tortured yourself with TOO much sex.... might as well torture yourself with abstaining for awhile -figuring all of this out...if you have a chance to reconcile, it would be best if you didn't take up with another women during this time....this will just cause her more hurt, that she is not worth waiting for...regardless of what she says (giving you free reign)

It will still hurt like hell that hurdle will have to be overcome down the road, so good to eliminate it ....during this dry spell.

Heh yeah it's one extreme to the other. I knew this would happen but the reality of it is more frustrating then I had thought. Thanks though SA

It's good you're opening all of this up -not fighting, and not having sex afterwards ... this is an amazing feat isn't it?

It is actually... funny even, considering how rare this happens with sensitive issues.

Sounds like Bible College zapped her free spirit, too much conformity there.

Aye, and that's why a part of me feels sorry for her. She was so strong back in those days, quick-witted as well, I thought she would be able to handle it. But she couldn't, they broke her I guess, then I broke her trying to reform her back to her "true self"... twice now. Guess she's reached her limits as well.

I wish that she can truly see her own worth and potential the way that I see it, not this "other side" of hers which has only caused problems in her life and ours. I think at that time she needed a feeling of a "powerful fix" for herself, religion can provide that, yet it still made her the woman I fell in love with when she was an independent-minded christian.

It's just that accursed freakin church... *sighs*
However, it's obvious now that professional and qualified help is needed for long-term issues, especially one with the past of a professional escort... only wish she can see that too.

 

[EnjoliWoman]

Very often people resort to extreme religious practices looking for answers, meaning and purpose for the pain they have experienced. I'm not a buyer in the 'everything happens for a reason' philosophy but many are. That would be a cruel God, indeed.

I still think there are issues she hasn't resolved that manifest themselves in her sex addiction. And she sees it's her only means of power and her only true value.

I'm not sure she'll ever be fixable.

However, you sharing partial truths isn't doing anyone any favors, either. I know you don't want to provide false hope but after everything shouldn't she get ALL of the truth? To deny that is patronizing.

 

[greenpearl]

There are good things about religions, and there are lots of bad things about religions too.

What you have to watch out for them is not to be brainwashed by them. Those people are doing a very good thing to make you feel good about yourself. They give your compliments for the little effort you put into believing and doing what they believe and do. They encourage you to do more. In general, people tend to like to receive compliments, in order to please those people, slowly they lost themselves. After that, those people use guilt to make you do things. They tell you that you should do this and that to please God.

We can seek wisdom from the Bible, but we really have to watch out those religious people. Don't let them brainwash you and you become their victim. I think your wife has become a victim of this religion. I understand why she said that she doesn't know what to believe now. Her faith hasn't brought her peace.

It was also naive of her for wanting to convert you. But who isn't like that. They are taught to convert whoever they can to believe in what they believe.

I think right now is a good opportunity for you both to be alone and think about the loss you might have. People don't become humble until they have lost everything or they are on the edge of losing everything. Don't do anything impulsive. Don't do anything silly to make it impossible to reconcile.

 

[greenpearl]

I also think she has extreme insecurity issues, she uses sex to feel loved.

 

[RandomDude]

However, you sharing partial truths isn't doing anyone any favors, either. I know you don't want to provide false hope but after everything shouldn't she get ALL of the truth? To deny that is patronizing.

In time, for now I want to make sure she's emotionally stable first.

Very often people resort to extreme religious practices looking for answers, meaning and purpose for the pain they have experienced. I'm not a buyer in the 'everything happens for a reason' philosophy but many are. That would be a cruel God, indeed.

I still think there are issues she hasn't resolved that manifest themselves in her sex addiction. And she sees it's her only means of power and her only true value.

I'm not sure she'll ever be fixable.

That's... sad news... =/
I know it's not my responsibility especially now but... it's such a waste!

Hard not to want to fix her when you really care about her, even though I can't say it's love anymore but this woman was my life for 7 years, mother of my child, and was the perfect woman for me for 2 years out of 7... not to mention the sheer potential she could be if she ever realised it.

 

[RandomDude]

There are good things about religions, and there are lots of bad things about religions too.

What you have to watch out for them is not to be brainwashed by them. Those people are doing a very good thing to make you feel good about yourself. They give your compliments for the little effort you put into believing and doing what they believe and do. They encourage you to do more. In general, people tend to like to receive compliments, in order to please those people, slowly they lost themselves. After that, those people use guilt to make you do things. They tell you that you should do this and that to please God.

We can seek wisdom from the Bible, but we really have to watch out those religious people. Don't let them brainwash you and you become their victim. I think your wife has become a victim of this religion. I understand why she said that she doesn't know what to believe now. Her faith hasn't brought her peace.

It was also naive of her for wanting to convert you. But who isn't like that. They are taught to convert whoever they can to believe in what they believe.

It's very tempting now to turn tables and try to convert her heh, think she would do well as a "pagan". But nah, her faith is part of her, sad that people can use that to manipulate her (and her family - rich folks always targets for hillsong), but I have no right to impose on her, and become the very demon both my STBX and I once despised... once upon a time.

The problem with my faith is that we don't impose, problem with my culture is that we don't impose. Maybe we should have in history... when Europeans conquered the new world they destroyed the native cultures and many of its customs, yet their legacy stands and is the strongest. When my people conquered the old world we let everyone govern themselves and believe whatever they wanted, yet our empire fragmented and our legacy forgotten, only memory remaining was of our apparent "cruelty" in war, with our history written by our enemies because we didn't bother to write.

Now my people are becoming more and more defensive since the infighting for the last 800 years, removing the tolerance we had towards outsiders and foreign cultures, and replacing it with conservativeness and policies favoring self-preservation. Relating this lesson in my marriage, perhaps I should have imposed on her after all... I don't know, once again another grey question.

I think right now is a good opportunity for you both to be alone and think about the loss you might have. People don't become humble until they have lost everything or they are on the edge of losing everything. Don't do anything impulsive. Don't do anything silly to make it impossible to reconcile.

Yes

I won't, I'm pass that stage of anger/disbelief/psychopathy/frustration/etc, now I care about her as a best friend, even if we are yet to reconcile even that.