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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
She sounds nice. Maybe a tad too trusting, but I don’t see that as a red flag.

Also, she was upfront and honest with you about the green card. She didn’t have to tell you any of that.

I’m not sure what your concerns are about 7th Day Adventists? I went to school with quite a few, and they were very nice people. They keep the sabbath. So if that is a unacceptable thing for a prospective partner to do, then don’t lead her on. If it’s not a deal breaker, take interest in learning about her faith and practices so you can understand and respect them better.

Not every situation requires a conspiracy theory. Some people are just actually good, nice humans.

This was mostly my assessment of the whole date until I discussed it with my roommate. He brought up the possibility that this might be an "Unhealthy behavior tied into neediness/co-dependency". I still feel like she's a good person and not trying to use me, but I also want to make certain I'm not falling victim to the "Halo effect"

-Also, I really don't have any problem (so far) with SDA's. I had them confused with another religion. When she mentioned it, I immediately had flashbacks of one of my friend's Ex's who got into a really bizarre church that abused and manipulated her when she was going through tough times. I remembered some rather ridiculous beliefs like not celebrating birthdays, Christmas, or Easter and not allowing them to have blood transfusions. I couldn't recall if her church was 7DA or Jehovah's Witnesses. I did some research this past weekend (before posting here) and much to my relief, I discovered it was JW's





The fact that she's from a different culture may play a major part in how she is acting on a date. Quite often, different cultures have very different customs and traditions when it comes to dating and marriage. That may have been a very typical date in her home country. Whether that's a red flag or not might be up for discussion. It may indicate that she would expect things to progress one way while you expect it to progress a different way because of your respective cultures and upbringings.

Also something I was thinking. That being said, she's been in the US since she was 5. She's now 30. So, I assume she's probably adjusted to most things American Culture-wise, but she still has strong ties to her original culture/roots and family. Also, I love dating woman and learning about other cultures. So I'm hoping I get to immerse myself in her culture/traditions if we do manage to get a relationship rolling.


Great screen name.

So - I’m not being critical or judgmental - I am however curious about the paragraph below:

She did try to dig a little more into why I was divorced. I tried to explain it as “a lot of little things” and “my Ex didn’t like the games I was playing. She probed for more information and was curious about the card game I played. She also asked what I was looking for on OKC and if I was definitely interested in a second date with her.


In my world, this is a diplomatic way of referencing gambling, which I have absolutely no moral objection to. I know that there are a small pool of professional gamblers who make money playing. Everyone else loses money. The only material question is what percentage of their income they spend/lose.
Thanks for the compliments on my SN. The card in game in question is NOT in fact gambling, it's actually a very complex and intricate collectible card game called "Magic: the Gathering". I actually tend to make money off the game on the secondary market, buying and selling cards.

I think it's odd the date lasted so long and *that you went shopping together for her stuff and then you put stuff together for her at her apartment* as a first date!!! That's heavy boyfriend stuff. Not first date stuff.

Don't be surprised, if you have a relationship with her, that you'll be doing most of everything for her. You'll be The Chore Boy.

I recall you as a poster, and know that your wife expected you to do so many things for her. Even fetching her a glass of water when she could have gotten it herself, as an expected chore, not just a surprise nicety. Am I remembering that right? So this may feel very FAMILIAR.

Beware of picking the same type.

Heck, you could even end up providing the green card for her.

There ARE more self-sufficient women out there. It's nice to do nice things for people, but this one may turn out to be one who you'll end up doing everything for. All chores. No fun. Will be your life. Look at what you are picking, and know there are other types.
Thanks for this @Livvie. I'm very glad and quite impressed that you and others seem to remember me, even though it's probably been over 3 yrs since my last post. Thanks for that!

Firstly, I do want to say that I didn't complete this project on my own. I was sitting on her couch and she was describing how she was trying to figure out how she wanted to arrange her shelves along with her art. She asked if I could help since she didn't really understand the instructions. She helped a lot the whole time and it was really more of team effort (i.e. I would hold a shelf, she would draw points on the wall, I did most of the drilling, but she screwed or unscrewed stuff as well).

After it was all finished and we were chilling on her couch, I teased her about just bringing me over to apartment to take advantage of me by having me build her shelf. She said "No, I didn't think about it until you we're sitting here and I thought, 'I need to hang these and I actually have a man who can help me' " She said she could have her bro do it, but he wasn't the most reliable for showing up when he said he would.

In all honestly, the fact that a woman trusted me to do a handyman project for her (something I warned her I wasn't very skilled at) and wasn't too picky with the results (it definitely didn't turn out great, but it was "good enough for now") did a lot to build my confidence.

That being said, I think she's also fairly self-sufficient, but perhaps missing having a man in her life. She's working 2 jobs, has a Bachelor's degree and has begun studying to pursue her Master's degree (she's not currently en-rolled for it, though).

When I got home and texted her to see what she was up to. She said she was building furniture she had ordered from Amazon.
I asked her if it was easy.

Her: LOl, I wish, it's not bad but some pieces are a mess"

Me: I'm sure you can handle it, you seem like a very capable woman"

Her response: "Lol, only when there's no guy to rely on :wink2:"


After that text I decided to hold off on texting her for the rest of the weekend, since Saturday was her Sabbath and she mentioned she would be working insane hours on Sunday. I also didn't want to appear needy/desperate or text too much.
When I txt'ed her today to ask how her weekend was she responded with.

Her: "He lives!"

Me: "Lol, why did you think I had died?"

Her: Well... No communication these past 2 days, I thought maybe i had truly scared you off by the work i had you do"

I replied with "naw, I don't scare that easily" and explained that I had just wanted to give her space and gave the reasons mentioned above.

I'm trying not to concern myself over the subtext of her text there. I'm still wondering if she was joking/being sarcastic, wishing I had texted her more, maybe upset or thinking I had lost interest or ghosted her... I guess I could assume she may be just as nervous about "screwing up" and scaring someone off as I might be.

Hmm, regardless, she's given no indication that she's lost interest so far, so I'm really hoping we do have a few more successful dates at the very least.
 

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A few questions (maybe flags) have been raised in your mind and others here. Some of those thoughts crossed my mind as well when reading your initial post but it’s really too soon to tell. I wouldn’t be overly suspicious but do keep alert. I’m also getting a good vibe from her from your latest posts. Seems she may genuinely like you and maybe just interacts differently on initial dates than maybe I or others would. I say Be open minded and see where it goes.
 

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I like what she’s doing in terms of her conduct.

When she said:

He lives...

This is a nice way of saying she was really hoping you would follow up. I believe that is a sincere comment from her, and a genuine compliment. Her fear of scaring you off via the little project. A pretty transparent communication.

I might seem old fashioned but I found the concept of you two working together on a small project in her apartment - very appealing.

I DO think you need to ask her one question the next time you see her. Is the fact that you aren’t a 7th day Adventist, going to be difficult for her.

As for the card game - an emotionally healthy woman isn’t going to have any trouble with what you described.



This was mostly my assessment of the whole date until I discussed it with my roommate. He brought up the possibility that this might be an "Unhealthy behavior tied into neediness/co-dependency". I still feel like she's a good person and not trying to use me, but I also want to make certain I'm not falling victim to the "Halo effect"

-Also, I really don't have any problem (so far) with SDA's. I had them confused with another religion. When she mentioned it, I immediately had flashbacks of one of my friend's Ex's who got into a really bizarre church that abused and manipulated her when she was going through tough times. I remembered some rather ridiculous beliefs like not celebrating birthdays, Christmas, or Easter and not allowing them to have blood transfusions. I couldn't recall if her church was 7DA or Jehovah's Witnesses. I did some research this past weekend (before posting here) and much to my relief, I discovered it was JW's








Also something I was thinking. That being said, she's been in the US since she was 5. She's now 30. So, I assume she's probably adjusted to most things American Culture-wise, but she still has strong ties to her original culture/roots and family. Also, I love dating woman and learning about other cultures. So I'm hoping I get to immerse myself in her culture/traditions if we do manage to get a relationship rolling.




Thanks for the compliments on my SN. The card in game in question is NOT in fact gambling, it's actually a very complex and intricate collectible card game called "Magic: the Gathering". I actually tend to make money off the game on the secondary market, buying and selling cards.



Thanks for this @Livvie. I'm very glad and quite impressed that you and others seem to remember me, even though it's probably been over 3 yrs since my last post. Thanks for that!

Firstly, I do want to say that I didn't complete this project on my own. I was sitting on her couch and she was describing how she was trying to figure out how she wanted to arrange her shelves along with her art. She asked if I could help since she didn't really understand the instructions. She helped a lot the whole time and it was really more of team effort (i.e. I would hold a shelf, she would draw points on the wall, I did most of the drilling, but she screwed or unscrewed stuff as well).

After it was all finished and we were chilling on her couch, I teased her about just bringing me over to apartment to take advantage of me by having me build her shelf. She said "No, I didn't think about it until you we're sitting here and I thought, 'I need to hang these and I actually have a man who can help me' " She said she could have her bro do it, but he wasn't the most reliable for showing up when he said he would.

In all honestly, the fact that a woman trusted me to do a handyman project for her (something I warned her I wasn't very skilled at) and wasn't too picky with the results (it definitely didn't turn out great, but it was "good enough for now") did a lot to build my confidence.

That being said, I think she's also fairly self-sufficient, but perhaps missing having a man in her life. She's working 2 jobs, has a Bachelor's degree and has begun studying to pursue her Master's degree (she's not currently en-rolled for it, though).

When I got home and texted her to see what she was up to. She said she was building furniture she had ordered from Amazon.
I asked her if it was easy.

Her: LOl, I wish, it's not bad but some pieces are a mess"

Me: I'm sure you can handle it, you seem like a very capable woman"

Her response: "Lol, only when there's no guy to rely on :wink2:"


After that text I decided to hold off on texting her for the rest of the weekend, since Saturday was her Sabbath and she mentioned she would be working insane hours on Sunday. I also didn't want to appear needy/desperate or text too much.
When I txt'ed her today to ask how her weekend was she responded with.

Her: "He lives!"

Me: "Lol, why did you think I had died?"

Her: Well... No communication these past 2 days, I thought maybe i had truly scared you off by the work i had you do"

I replied with "naw, I don't scare that easily" and explained that I had just wanted to give her space and gave the reasons mentioned above.

I'm trying not to concern myself over the subtext of her text there. I'm still wondering if she was joking/being sarcastic, wishing I had texted her more, maybe upset or thinking I had lost interest or ghosted her... I guess I could assume she may be just as nervous about "screwing up" and scaring someone off as I might be.

Hmm, regardless, she's given no indication that she's lost interest so far, so I'm really hoping we do have a few more successful dates at the very least.
 

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Don't try to analyze every single action or word that comes out of her mouth. If you are enjoying her company, then go with the flow and enjoy your time together!

I'm an immigrant. My culture is different from my husband's. I did a lot of different things with and for my husband when we were dating because I grew up in a different environment.

She's been here since she was little. I'm sure she's more American than I am. If you are worried she wants a green card, start asking questions about her legal status, most people don't mind. We are used to those questions anyway. I have to tell you though, not every immigrant wants a green card. I have many friends who have working visas that are single and not looking for a husband or wife to stay here. I had a green card for many years until my husband begged me to become a US citizen.

If you are interested, if you feel comfortable going out with her then go for it!

I've been married to my husband for 16 years and the fun hasn't ended! We still get lost in translation sometimes because we grew up differently. We enjoy each other's company and that's what matters! I don't care about other people's opinions about our relationship. You shouldn't care about others opinions either!
 

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Also something I was thinking. That being said, she's been in the US since she was 5. She's now 30. So, I assume she's probably adjusted to most things American Culture-wise, but she still has strong ties to her original culture/roots and family. Also, I love dating woman and learning about other cultures. So I'm hoping I get to immerse myself in her culture/traditions if we do manage to get a relationship rolling.
Even though she's been here since she was 5, her family can still have a strong influence on her perspective on relationships. I don't know what it's like in Ghana, but I know some cultures have strongly defined traditions about relationships and the parents will strongly shape their children that way.

In any case, there are some significant differences which will make this relationship challenging no matter what. Differences in culture and religion are often significant sources of incompatibility. Hopefully things go well, but if they don't, these kinds of differences may mean it will be much more complicated to work things out. If you find you guys are conflicting over these sorts of foundational differences, it would probably be best to move on so you each can find someone with whom you're more naturally compatible. But if you can get through putting Ikea furniture together on a first date and still be talking, that's a good sign.
 

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Why is her immigration status so unsettled if she's been here since she was five? Is there anything she could be doing to resolve that, besides getting married? Immigration status is a serious issue and it seems that she should be doing something other than looking for a husband in order to get it resolved. I do not understand why parents do this to their children. It doesn't make sense to me.

I think the fact that she refused to marry someone she was not well matched to is a good sign. If she was looking for any man to fill that roll so she could get citizenship, that would be a real problem.
 

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We spent about 2 hours walking around IKEA
Honestly, if you survived 2 hours of IKEA together, that's a remarkable start!


Batman and I joke that we'll try to remain married by the time we get outta there. And we have a rule to never go into IKEA if we haven't eaten yet... while we can face many things in life together, cranky hunger combined with IKEA is an implosion waiting to happen.


Her reply of 'He lives!' ...demonstrates she is likely happy and relieved to hear from you.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Hey everyone,

I'm back for a little update. We just set up our 2nd date tomorrow. We're going to have a nice walk around our local mall. We started discussing the when/where a few ago, but didn't set anything in stone. I will say this though, I'm about 100% she's falling for me fast and hard... and I can't that I feel too differently about her. I'm really trying to pace my emotions/hormones, but every time I see a text from her, I have this feeling of hormonal excitement. It's hard to describe.. but it's an exhilarating feeling that I haven't felt in awhile.

Until today, everything seemed to be going pretty well, though we are texting quite a bit every day, she told me about her shopping for more stuff for her apt, I made a joke about her already planning our next date project, etc.

Regardless, I've been doing my best to pace myself and jump in too fast. She's already dove in and drowning in feelings for me (feels really weird saying that).

Also, I don't think she's "crazy" and this post isn't meant to belittle her. She seems like an awesome woman, but maybe she and I are both somewhat inexperienced in "mature relationships"

Here's why I think that. Important details highlighted in red. Also, in case timeline is relevant, 1 happened in the morning/early afternoon, 2. Was late afternoon, 3 was late tonight, prior to me posting this.

1. I texted her "Good Morning" today around 10:30am. My last text was at approx 1pm yesterday. She responded "Alive, as you seem to be" (I'm assuming referencing the "he's alive" text from earlier). She asked about how I slept, I responded and asked the same of her. I asked her my best attempt at a thought-provoking question. "What upcoming event in your life are you most looking forward to?"

One of her responses was going on a trip to see her friends in TN.
I asked her where she would be going in TN. She said somewhere near Chatanooga, TN.

Then she dropped this bomb... "Perhaps when the time comes, you might be interested in going with me?"

At first, I wanted to say "Sure!", and agree to it. I really missed having someone to take road trips with.. but I decided to take a breath and pace myself. The best reply I could muster at the time was "Possibly, but we'll have to wait and see". I asked when she would be going and her trip was planned for Dec/Jan.

As I thought about it over the next few seconds, it started to hit me... Wholly sheetz, this was getting out of hand fast. We haven't even been on a SECOND DATE YET! Just ONE (albeit a LOOOONG One) and she's considering making plans with me to take a road trip with her!"

Had I taken the time to think of a more clever response, I think it might've gone something like this. "Whoooa! Slow down there, Speedracer.. we might want to get a few dates under our belts before we start planning road trips together"

2. I changed the subject, told her to come up with an interesting question for me to answer. A few hours later, she asked me "If you could have anything today (within reason), what would it be"? I told her I really wanted to get my car back(it's been in the shop most of this week). and we discussed that for a bit.
Then, out of nowhere, she asks. "Just curious, Do you ever want to get married again, or did you first experience scare you off?" I didn't quite know how to respond, and I was driving home at the moment. I asked my roommate for his thoughts, he suggested what I was thinking, which was to simply say "I'm not against he idea, I just need to find the right person". She followed that up with saying she likes to do surveys of why people divorce and remarry, and then launched into a very compelling introspective, philosophical musing about "finding the right one" that I won't get into at this time. However, that launched a new conversation where I learned she is apparently quite the intellectual woman, a straight A student, and working on writing several books.

3. More conversation to hammer out the details of our date tomorrow.. then a long pause. Then I get a text from an unknown number. It was her. She said her original phone was acting up. 15 min passes and I haven't responded to her text from new phone. She asks "Hello?". I respond 10 min later and we joke about her broken phone.

Then she drops this final bomb "I wish you were here tonight" She went onto explain that she was with her younger brother and she was very overwhelmed with emotions from what they had been through and said it would have been nice to have someone there in times of vulnerability.


I think it's pretty obvious that things are moving pretty fast for her emotionally and I feel like she's really starting to be "attached" to me. I'm a pretty good mix of excited and nervous/overwhelmed. I'm excited about this new 'potential' relationship and the fact that someone I'm actually attracted to is feeling the same about me and wants to see me again. At the same time, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed for obvious reasons.

I appreciate any thoughts/wisdom you're willing to share. With that being said... I'm seriously considering setting up another appointment with a relationship counselor before things get too out of hand.
 

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Oh for crying out loud, relax!!

Go with the flow.

To me it sounds like you are the one with the problem here.

So, for what it's worth, do not let YOUR old emotional scars get in the way and RUIN something which has the potential to turn out to be very very nice.

When opportunity knocks, open the damned door for Christ's sake!
 

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She sounds nice to me.

I wouldn’t hold it against her that she refused to marry a bad man to get a green card.

Whether 7DA is an issue is up to you.

She may be too trusting, but I wouldn’t call that a red flag.

She wants to understand why you are divorced presumably because she doesn’t want to end up divorced. I think that’s a good thing.
I dont know about SDA's but a lot of Christians believe that unless a divorce is for sexual immorality they are not free to remarry. Hence her questions possibly. I also think its odd that she would consider dating someone who doesn't share her SDA faith. I thought they were quite strict on that.
Must admit I am always astounded at how women put themselves in such danger by asking a man to her place so soon. Madness.
 

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I implore you to slow this down OP...slow it waaaaaay down.

I get the impression that she is a clingy one.

It's way too soon to be talking about taking trips together.

Slow down.
I second this. I get an impression that you might get in over your head with this one and end up with the same kind of dynamic you had with your wife.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
I implore you to slow this down OP...slow it waaaaaay down.

I get the impression that she is a clingy one.

It's way too soon to be talking about taking trips together.

Slow down.
I appreciate this advice @frusdil and @Livvie

Any suggestions on the best way to handle that slow things down that I can do? I mean, I don't feel like I've been rushing things, personally, but maybe I should be more proactive in not accepting every invitation or suggestion that she offers? I just want to make sure we're both understanding each other here. Regardless, I appreciate the advice.


Oh for crying out loud, relax!!

Go with the flow.

To me it sounds like you are the one with the problem here.

So, for what it's worth, do not let YOUR old emotional scars get in the way and RUIN something which has the potential to turn out to be very very nice.

When opportunity knocks, open the damned door for Christ's sake!
I appreciate this advice too and Trust me, I am trying to do just that (going with the flow--in fact I may done that a bit too much on my second date--but I'll get to that later). I was really excited to see where this would go and really happy to meet someone who was as attracted to me as I was to them.
But at the same time, I don't want things to get out of control too fast. I'm not exactly sure why it would be bad, since I've only really had one relationship prior to this. I would guess it's because the break-up/disconnect point can be more difficult and painful if you become emotionally on a deep level too quickly, before you really get to know each other.

So, to clarify... Do you think someone inquiring about the potential to take a road trip together or saying "I wish you were here with me" (after a very long first date and lots of texting over the phone) are NOT signs of her being clingy or things moving too fast?
 

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Any suggestions on the best way to handle that slow things down that I can do? I mean, I don't feel like I've been rushing things, personally, but maybe I should be more proactive in not accepting every invitation or suggestion that she offers? I just want to make sure we're both understanding each other here. Regardless, I appreciate the advice.
I think you need to accept that things are moving too fast and likely it means this relationship is going to be crazy and crash and burn. Go along for the ride and enjoy it. When it's over, hopefully you'll think of it as a fun and wild ride.

One reason I think this is that she is moving things along way too quickly. She's not someone who takes things slowly, so it's unlikely you'll be able to change things significantly. There's not really a way for you to slow this down. Either get on board or move on.

Another reason is that you seem to be filled with uncertainty and doubt. This is not the kind of relationship where you can drift along and things will work out. We're glad to help, but there is a lot of questions about what to do. We can't be on your dates, so you'll have to just know what to do in the moment. If you don't have confidence in yourself and that you can control things to your liking, then you'll likely get pulled along in her direction.

I think you should go into this to just have fun rather than to shape her into the woman you want her to be and the kind of relationship you want. If she's moving along things too quickly for your liking, just say that you'd prefer not to drive cross-country, sleep over, move in, or whatever. Either she'll be okay with that or else she'll move on.
 

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To me she sounds like a kind hearted woman who wears her heart on her sleeve. She may actually be a bit naive when it comes to dating and let’s her emotions run away with her.
If you are attracted to her and are interested in pursuing a relationship with her then go for it. If not then tell her immediately that you aren’t looking for anything serious and part as friends.
 

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Jukebox, I’m glad you did NOT say “whoa slow down speed Racer” because that would sound mocking to her. It would not express what you really meant, it would make her feel defensive.

She is definitely super smitten on you and wants to be married someday. You can just hold these items in your understanding and just know them, and proceed with good caution but not with fear. If you had said the slow down comment, it would just sound like you are afraid of true intimacy or commitment. Because we don’t need to fear someone who is moving too fast because we have the ultimate control of how fast or slow we will go.

In every relationship I’ve had where we both felt crazy about each other on all levels, the other person did and said things like you are describing in the very beginning. In fact, my friends and I have discussed how every guy we ended up with who we were really into and it was mutual, they would somehow slip into the conversation marriage or getting married on an early date. They may say it like a joke or like they are just contemplating something, but we always knew he was fishing. And it was cute, most of the time they did not actually propose but some of them did, later when it was appropriate.

In my case, I always felt cautious about these partners because of their moving so quickly, but I also was feeling it too, so I just kind of trusted them that they were not deluding themselves, that they were actually feeling the spark of a really great relationship building.

If a guy was coming on too fast and I wasn’t feeling it for him I stopped seeing him immediately. But with the guys I’m talking about, I took it slow even though he wanted to go fast. I felt my way through and was not sorry about any of them. In all cases he just knew he wanted to be with me so he abandoned all other paths and started paving the road to me. Because I didn’t allow it to go as fast as he wanted, we spent more time in the dating stages and had so much fun getting to know each other, which later became the topic of many dreamy conversations talking about how fun it was to fall in love.

So I’m saying...just take it slow and fear nothing. If she gets too weird about something, stop and take pause. You will know soon if this is going a direction you want it to or not. Trust your own feelings, too. You seem smitten with her, too. Let it flow and see what happens.
 

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So, to clarify... Do you think someone inquiring about the potential to take a road trip together or saying "I wish you were here with me" (after a very long first date and lots of texting over the phone) are NOT signs of her being clingy or things moving too fast?
Alright, I don't get this "clingy" thing. Are you upset that she likes your company? That she likes to be with you?

Would you rather that she not want to be with you? That you make her uncomfortable?

Get real.

Sheesh! I get the feeling here like we're trying to breed thoroughbred horses. Ya know, where they're so inbred and retarded that they don't know how to mate? The handlers have to, like, hold things and point them just right so that it all fits together.


At least, that's what this is starting to remind me of.
 

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Some of her behaviours could be ''love bombing''. I common tactic amongst some cults.

(Since SDA-ism isn't a monolith, the various strains can sway from extreme cult-like to practically orthodox, it wouldn't hurt to find out where she falls on the spectrum.)
 

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Does she invite all the new guys at her apartment?

She's either too naive or too co-dependant.
:iagree:


too co-dependant.
She really wants a man in her life and you are the one she has in her sights.

You should ask her what her relationship goals are? Does she want someone to be her friend, go on dates with an play with.......or does she want a serious romantic relationship. If the later, what would she consider a slow romance timetable would look like (Don't be surprised if she doesn't say married in 6 months and pregnant in 9 months.).

As to red flag, if you want to be steam rolled into a marriage, then there are no red flags, otherwise, tell her you need to proceed very slowly.

Good luck.
 
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