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Chapparal, I have not printed it. She will laugh. I took some points from it and will include those when I approach her. Believe me, divorce will move forward if she refuses.
People in emotional affairs generally don't believe anything is wrong because they are in denial. Get the divorce papers going and give her a copy of the list. It won't take long for her to see she's throwing marriage away for a gay guy. I gaurantee she thinks she can reform him. What a fantasy!

I'm personally one who believes in confronting the OM hard. Many here do not believe that but I think the marriage buster should get a good taste of medicine.. Besides that, he's done it before and he'll do it again if no one puts a stop to it.
 

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Heres my perspective on ultimatiums in general;
We can't control our spouse so why try, but we have boundries that are the walls we set up to protect us from more pain. When establishing boundries for your selves, it really is up to the other spouse to either respect them or be honest enought o tell us they can't or won't...either way its about protecting our selves from more pain.

I guess its so easy to get labeled controling but when you clearly give them a choice when it specificly aimed at protecting your self from more pain then its seems ......well not so much about her but protecting your self.

I'm thinking one can say " you need to choose him or me" or you can say " I will not tolorate this and need to move on if you continue"

Granted its all semantics, but when its so tough to get around the "your trying to control me " thing...... the way you phrase things is so important.

I kind of see it as you are choosing for her when she clearly wants to "have her cake" or "you can do what you want but to keep me around you need to want only me"

I hope this makes sense, cause there are so many ways to word the same thing......
:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Be sure when she starts telling you you are being controlling that she is free to do anything she wants but you have boundaries and you can do what you have to do also. The controlling thing almost always comes up.

Just to make a point, ask her if he has aids?

Does his partner know he does this? I wonder if its all a game with them since your friend says he has done this with other women ? If I were you I would talk to his partner.

On a side note, I had girl friend (platonic) in college and all her closest friends weere gay guys. No one ever understood that. If a guy is really gay would that be like having a girl friend for a woman? NowI'mconfused.
 

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Have you exposed this, if not notify friend/family, tell them she wants an open marriage and that their has been 3 people in your marriage for far too long......get yourself a legal pad and start jotting down separation of assets and debt........propose a custody arrangement, tell her that you will most likely have to put the house up for sale and that you will be looking for a Realtor......just go on the offense, keep her reeling from each new "Reality", tell her your willing to pay for her ticket to go to the OM to live but your kids will never leave the State.............punch,
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Agree, plus she needs to get a job, car etc. Close joint bank accts. credit cards in the morning.
 

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Great advice everyone, I really appreciate it.

I now have some plans should she try and work this out. I have more ultimatums now that she rejected my first...Thanks affaircare!

I will look into drafting some plans for splitting our assets and her getting a job and will send that to her tomorrow.

Chapparal, the talk was productive as we talked through the issues that lead to her wandering, and I could tell she wanted to talk this through but maybe felt she was trapped. She is very hard-headed and I feel she made this decision to test my boundaries, again.
Praying for your family, stay strong ,its what your family needs.
 

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I now resent her deeply for this and for hiding it from me. The fact that she chose.him makes me want to accept no reconciliation, only agree to be polite for our children. I dont ever want to hurt this bad again. I need to find someone who will appreciate me. Life is too short...
What did she say led up to this. Like she said he was the only one there for her for the past six months. Is she just making up issues or had she talked to you about things bothering her?

Don't give up yet, you've got boys to think about yet. Your goal now should be to bust up the EA from both ends.

Why don't you call the other mans partner and then call the other man. If they broke up my family the last thing they would be doing is giggleing about it. But thats just me.

For example, if he offered to buy my kids shoes , I would have been on the phone immediately telling him where to get off. Of course he might like boys. But after I put the fear of God in him he wouldn't be effing with my family again.

This is just one step to putting your family back together.
 

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Divorce sends a shock wave, seperation she will like because it just gets you away for awhile she thinks. Divorce can be stopped at anytime,just le ther know when it would be final.
time to do the 180:

This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


Good luck
 

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[UPDATE]

She sent me a message saying she will look into getting a job working nights so we can save up for a car for her and we can share watching the boys.

She is sticking with her decision.

*EDIT She just sent me this:

"I'm honestly quite stunned you are done...."
I would answer something like this:

And I'm broken hearted you fell in love with another man and picked him over your family.
 

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Maybe she means she's stunned she picked the Other man. Are you staying somewhere else.

Make sure she knows your sons will know why you are divorcing.

Hopefully she is bluffing.
 

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She responded with two paragraphs. Assuring me he is gay and there is nothing between them and that she is sorry for what she said. Also, How HE even suggested marriage counseling for us. How noble!!!

Do I think he is gay? I am 99% sure he is actually gay. The problem is her unhealthy infatuation with this guy. It's just...Not right: texting another guy on our anniversary while I am driving across town to pick up our anniversary dinner. Texting him that she "misses him" and is "thinking of him a lot." Just...No!

She is not admitting it to herself and that is the problem. I believe she is in love with this guy.

I'm going to respond to her that even if we did go to counseling, the marriage counselor would impose similar no-contact rule on this guy, and even demand that she hands over all passwords and have complete transparency...

Do you think that's a good response?
Don't tell her what you think the MC will tell her since she might refuse to go if she knows before hand what he is going to tell her. If she thinks a counselor is going to go along with her so much the better.
 

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Don't even consider MC or IC until she has evidenced the affair has stopped and NC is in effect. Ignore her text messages unless it is related to your child. Run the 180 hard.
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I understand this as a general rule but in cases where the spouse doesn't believe they are in an affair I think a counselor could be the only thing that might work. The bad thing is how many people say there are so many bad counselors.

IJL needs to buy the book "His Needs Her Needs" readit and give it to his wife. This book is designed to heal broken couples marriages.
 

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Since maybe she does not understand, or wants to skirt the facts, I am considering sending her this:
Did you send her this?

Don't respond to her to quickly, let her stew awhile and think through your responses. Be emotionless,strong and don't appear to be anxious.
 

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The problem with that is, the guy never really went beyond flirting (as far as I know).
The issue is my wife's infatuation with him. I could ask him to let me know if he knows anything about it, or if OM has told him anything about it or her.
Ask him if he knows their online affair has broken up her family and you are holding him responsible.
 

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Great advice again. Thank you.

warlock: That was her original reaction. we are just friends i will hate you for ruining friendship blah blah. i told her to get real, she admitted attraction to this guy its not a friend ship its an EA. and i said you will get over it.
An extremely strong EA if not more. Trip to New York, romantic sights,her period check can only mean one thing. Friend my a$$.

No affection, no intimacy, has a crush on a "gay" man, posting love songs to him, he wants to be "freaked", wants open marriage, tells him she misses him and he makes her heart flutter, then lies and lies and lies.

And this is only what you know. Did he send her pictures?

You have got to be strongbecause she is trying to rug sweep this big time.

Under no circumstances let her take boys to New York. If you file for D she can't take them out of state, tell her that. Let her know you no longer trust anything she does. She thinks she's playing you for a fool.

Every state I know of has a sex offender list, have you looked him and his partner up? Google his name.

Has she sent him pictures?
 

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Thanks Chapparal and everyone else, it really means a lot!

Eli-Zor: I have not heard anything. I presume he does not care, as most of this stuff he is doing on public facebook walls where his partner can see.
Have you posted on his wall or messaged him. Of course he will probably block you.
 
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