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So, can someone tell me please what this SI thing/place is that everyone keeps mentioning?

And a little incite on the MCs are a bit tough on the wounded spouse.

It is because a marriage is suppose to be 50/50, so even though one party “cheated”, it does not mean that the other person did not have any part in it.

Simple ABC....Actions, behaviours, consequences.

I just read through all these 200 plus posts, and the question that popped into my mind the most was....where was he when she was having this affair? She is not the only one to blame here. They were both responsible for their marriage, and unless she is a complete nutter, then he was partly responsible too and he needs to make adjustments as well.

Married at 17? 4 kids? 18 years together??

I have never met anyone that was the same at 17 then they were in their mid 30s. They have been through a lot and changed a lot.

Do not go to MC yet. You both need to find yourselves as individuals first. You do not know who you are. You probably only know yourselves as who you are (possibly) as married and as parents.

You need to know who you are before you can grow into the next stage of your life together.


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This is ridiculous. Absolutely Ridiculous.

Sorry, if you cheated it does not work like this, this is cheater speak.

Don't like the way things are going, leave, get a divorce...

Don't cheat... It make you a scum bag, and there is really now excuse for it.
Sorry, it was not “cheater speak”.

I a woman that cheats on the man that beats the crap out of her on a daily basis a “scum bag” because she needed something or anything to help her get out of the relationship?

Is a woman that cheats on her husband that is emotionally unavailable for years and her pleas for him to work together go ignored and she lacks the resources to leave the relationship a “scum bag”?

Is the woman that’s husband has ED and she begs him for years to get help but he ignores her pleas and she does not ruin her family so she cheats a “scum bag”?

No. They are not. Not all relationships are lined with gold in the communication department. This does not make people “scum bags”, it makes them human and placing the blame entirely on the cheater is blame shifting on the part of the spouse that was cheated on.
In order for a reconciliation to be successful,
both parties need to work to solve the root issues. Putting the blame entirely on one person is abusive.


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No but she is not absolved from her wrong. I should add that I personally believe that once someone cheats the marriage contract is broken so I don't think it's cheating or a revenge affair. There is no such thing as a revenge affair because there is no marriage to revenge anymore. Though I would always say that it's a strategic mistake, and why I say that is suppose the person you decide to get "revenge" with could be your next relationship, well then you have started that relationship under the most selfish and destructive of circumstances.

But assuming we are not talking about that then cheating is on the cheater because they made the choice to handle a bad situation in an immoral way when there were other avenues to fix their issues going so far as to divorce. (Which is why people who are stanch opponents against divorce are often misguided, IMO) Do I think there are different levels of immorality in cheating depending on the situation. Of course. But bad behavior by someone doesn't justify bad behavior as a response to it. It also really doesn't fix the issue at all!

The other thing that I think we need to remember is that an adulterer is probably not going to be a reliable narrator of events, even to themselves. So you must take what people say especially about how their marriage was before they cheated with a grain of salt. In most cases to have an affair you need to rewrite your marriage history as a justification. Which is why many people who cheat and then reform will admit to doing just that. They rewrite their marriage history before, while and after they are in that affair. Just another form or abuse.

And that, I think, is the overall point cheating is abuse, on the same scale as rape. It needs to be thought and treated like that. Is it right for a husband to rape his wife because she withholds sex from him? No one in their right mind would justify that. Evil is evil.
@a_new_me

You've given some extreme examples here. In the case of the OP, I don't believe this situation was quite as extreme, but I do get what you're saying. It doesn't mean that I agree with it 100%.

Both parties are responsible for 50% of the problems in marriage. Yet, one person cheats. There are many, many ways to handle a myriad of life's problems, but cheating is not one of those ways.

Let me say it like this. It's been hot and dry in my neck of the woods for quite some time. Conditions are ripe for fires. There's dead and dried leaves and vegetation, along with wind and heat. Yet, there will be no fire without a spark. Someone has to drop a match, a cigarette, let a campfire get out, or similar. Perhaps lightning strikes and starts the fire. Either way, the conditions themselves don't start the fire- something (or someone) does.

Same thing in the OP's relationship. Same in mine. No, I wasn't the best husband I could have been at the time. Depression will do that to you. And my W? She was no picnic for much of that time as well. We weren't fighting all of the time, but when we did, it was bad. Verbal assaults left and right, then kiss and make up. Rinse and repeat.

Still, while those conditions were conducive to something extracurricular happening, they didn't ignite the fire. The OM sparked it, but my W fanned the flames and poured on the fuel, rather than reaching for the nearest fire extinguisher and putting it out immediately.

There were dozens of ways to stop this. My W never told me she was on the verge of leaving, never suggested that I get help, and denied any interest in the OM up until she broke it off and changed jobs. Hard to pin that on me, and 2 PhD counselors and a highly regarded MC concur.

I've long since dealt with my issues. I'm a far better husband now and my W is a better spouse as well. We're one of the few that has been able to experience R the right way.

Same with the OP. There were many ways to handle this situation- sending sexual texts for 2.5 years isn't on that list. This is on her. Still, the H has things that must be addressed. They both do. Hopefully this will have a better ending than it seems it will.
Two different aspects are being lumped together:

1. The state of the relationship
2. How each person chooses to deal with the state of the relationship

While both people are often responsible for the state of the relationship, each person is responsible for how they deal with it. The person does not get a free pass for terrible behavior by saying the poor state of the relationship made them do it.

For example, the financial state of the marriage is typically dependent on the actions of both people. Their jobs, spending habits, fixed expenses, etc. all contribute to that. If money is tight, they need to fix it in a morally and legally acceptable way, such as get another job, cut back on expenses, etc. They don't get a free pass to rob a bank or say their financial situation made them do it. If someone chooses to turn to crime to make money, that is totally their own choice and their own decision of how to deal with the situation.

The same goes for an affair. We can all understand how relationship troubles can make someone want to relieve that stress, but having an affair is never an appropriate response. If someone chooses to have an affair, that choice is 100% on them. They can't say that a bad relationship made them have an affair any more than they can say not being able to pay their bills made them rob a bank. If someone is unhappy in a relationship, then address it with counselling, discussions, or eventually divorce if it's not going to work out. It's never okay to cheat. There is no justification for it no matter how bad the relationship is.
 

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If this is the new policy to move thread jacks to their own thread I for want to say I LIKE IT!
Not a new policy but I normally delete thread jacks and call it a day. I hope this will serve as an example to others to PLEASE take the thread jack discussions to a new thread. I encourage it.
 

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Not a new policy but I normally delete thread jacks and call it a day. I hope this will serve as an example to others to PLEASE take the thread jack discussions to a new thread. I encourage it.
Yeah, it would be mighty convenient for those of us in the peanut gallery, but if institutionalized, I'm sure it would become a full time job for a whole fleet of moderators.

Very cool, but probably not particularly practical.
 

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Sorry about starting that.
I just think that a little compassion and understanding goes a long way and that the OP was taking more blame for the entire situation that she is going through and I wish her the best and hope that the good and positive advice that she receives here helps her and her husband sort everything out so that they can live happy and productive lives.


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This does not make people “scum bags”, it makes them human and placing the blame entirely on the cheater is blame shifting on the part of the spouse that was cheated on.
In order for a reconciliation to be successful,
both parties need to work to solve the root issues. Putting the blame entirely on one person is abusive.
Are you serious with this?!?!?! You are the poster child for victim blaming. The cheater is solely to blame; it was their choice, their character flaw. Sounds to me like you are trying trying to justify something YOU did.

Edit: These were the OPs words not Lila. Sorry for the confusion
 

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Are you serious with this?!?!?! You are the poster child for victim blaming. The cheater is solely to blame; it was their choice, their character flaw. Sounds to me like you are trying trying to justify something YOU did.

Edit: These were the OPs words not Lila. Sorry for the confusion


Yes, I am serious.

I have worked and known a lot of women that were in bad situations with their partners. A lot of these partners used a lot of emotional and psychological abuse on these women to the points where their heads were so messed up that they did not know what to do...and they turned to their basic instincts so that they could get something...anything that could get them either out of the situation or help them build up their self esteem enough so they had the inner strength to deal with things. Unfortunately, cheating was part of that.

I am not the poster child for victim blaming.

All I was saying is that it is, in a lot of cases, not the sole responsibility of the cheater for the cheating to have occurred.

And please, unless you are sleeping in my bed, or know me personally or are spying on my every move, please do not say that it sounds to you that I am trying to justify something that I did.

All I was doing was trying to be supportive to the OP, and turning that around on me because I have a different opinion than you is not a way to have a productive discussion and communicate effectively.

Thank you and have a wonderful day:)


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All I was saying is that it is, in a lot of cases, not the sole responsibility of the cheater for the cheating to have occurred.
The cheater is ALWAYS responsible for their choices and their actions! And it is victim blaming. Basically, you are saying that it is my fault that my STBXW had a threesome with her coworker? GTFO
 

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Wait did you just thread jack this new thread created as a result of thread jacking?

(Ducks)

Just kiddin’!
See, he's got his hand up in that avatar to try to deflect Lila's swing...


>:) >:) >:)
 

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Yes, I am serious.

I have worked and known a lot of women that were in bad situations with their partners. A lot of these partners used a lot of emotional and psychological abuse on these women to the points where their heads were so messed up that they did not know what to do...and they turned to their basic instincts so that they could get something...anything that could get them either out of the situation or help them build up their self esteem enough so they had the inner strength to deal with things. Unfortunately, cheating was part of that.

I am not the poster child for victim blaming.

All I was saying is that it is, in a lot of cases, not the sole responsibility of the cheater for the cheating to have occurred.

And please, unless you are sleeping in my bed, or know me personally or are spying on my every move, please do not say that it sounds to you that I am trying to justify something that I did.

All I was doing was trying to be supportive to the OP, and turning that around on me because I have a different opinion than you is not a way to have a productive discussion and communicate effectively.

Thank you and have a wonderful day:)


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It may not be solely the cheater who is responsible for having contributed to an unhappy marriage.... but as for actually going forward and stepping out of said marriage, yes, that is most definitely 100% on the cheater. No way around it.
 

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It may not be solely the cheater who is responsible for having contributed to an unhappy marriage.... but as for actually going forward and stepping out of said marriage, yes, that is most definitely 100% on the cheater. No way around it.


True.

However, everyone deals with their hurt and pain in different ways. We all grow and change as our time passes. Sometimes, people get stuck. Their lives are so intertwined that they do not even know where to start untangling that knot that developed. There are always so many what ifs, ands or buts.

I just believe that we all need to take the time to look at a situation as a whole before we villanize someone and place the entirety of the blame on them, because when you look in, there is always a lot more at play.

Saying a cheater is entirely at fault negates everything else that surrounds them and minimizes it and paints everyone with the same brush. most often the truth is behind closed doors.

People need to be more self aware and accept their responsibility in situations so that they can grow, or they can completely blame the other person for everything and be bitter and accomplish no true healing.


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However, everyone deals with their hurt and pain in different ways. We all grow and change as our time passes. Sometimes, people get stuck. Their lives are so intertwined that they do not even know where to start untangling that knot that developed. There are always so many what ifs, ands or buts.
Ahhh ... I don’t think so.
A person has a lot of other options to deal with issues in their marriages and lives other than banging someone who isn’t their spouse. The act of crossing the line is a character flaw.
 

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It may not be solely the cheater who is responsible for having contributed to an unhappy marriage.... but as for actually going forward and stepping out of said marriage, yes, that is most definitely 100% on the cheater. No way around it.
Is there a TAM-approved manner of stepping outside the bounds of marriage for sex, prior to actually getting divorced? If the wife is fed up with a husband’s desire for sex, it simply isn’t going to happen, yet she wants to stay married... and tells the husband that, If we’d is so important to him, go find someone to have sex with... is that still cheating if he takes her up on that? What if he does but doesn’t tell her. Still cheating?

I am NOT asking for a friend. Yet I’ve had such words spoken to me. In my mind, it would have been cheating. In her mind, maybe not.

So is it black and white? I prefer the answer to be yes.
 

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Even if you say that the cheater had all these issues, and they cheated because that's all they could do at the time.... which is a weird thing to say, because they could do less...like, not cheat. But even if you say that's all that they could do for whatever reasons..... all of the blame of cheating still lies in their lap. Period.

Being a crappy spouse, a depressed spouse, an obese spouse, an abusive spouse.....whatever the case may be, is not an excuse for cheating. It's a good excuse for divorce, but not cheating. The crappy, depressed, obese, abusive spouse IS the victim. They had a bad marriage, there are tons of them. So get divorced.

If an abusive spouse blames the victim ..."look what you made me do", then a cheating spouse who blames the other is doing the same thing. It IS victim blaming.

I think....if you cheat, whether you think it is justified or not, whether the spouse deserved it or not, even if the spouse cheated on you, YOU are the only one who gets to own that. You have whatever consequences that come your way.

A popular phrase in a house of teen and pre-teen grandkids here, is "own your own ****".
 

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Yes, I am serious.

I have worked and known a lot of women that were in bad situations with their partners. A lot of these partners used a lot of emotional and psychological abuse on these women to the points where their heads were so messed up that they did not know what to do...and they turned to their basic instincts so that they could get something...anything that could get them either out of the situation or help them build up their self esteem enough so they had the inner strength to deal with things. Unfortunately, cheating was part of that.

I am not the poster child for victim blaming.

All I was saying is that it is, in a lot of cases, not the sole responsibility of the cheater for the cheating to have occurred.

And please, unless you are sleeping in my bed, or know me personally or are spying on my every move, please do not say that it sounds to you that I am trying to justify something that I did.

All I was doing was trying to be supportive to the OP, and turning that around on me because I have a different opinion than you is not a way to have a productive discussion and communicate effectively.

Thank you and have a wonderful day:)


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I know a lot of people who were cheated on even though they were lovely people who really loved their spouse. Sadly they married someone who had no moral values or integrity. Some of the cheaters even said that it wasn't because of their spouses they cheated, it was because they choose to. One said that the opportunity came up and he took it. :frown2:
 

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Is there a TAM-approved manner of stepping outside the bounds of marriage for sex, prior to actually getting divorced? If the wife is fed up with a husband’s desire for sex, it simply isn’t going to happen, yet she wants to stay married... and tells the husband that, If we’d is so important to him, go find someone to have sex with... is that still cheating if he takes her up on that? What if he does but doesn’t tell her. Still cheating?

I am NOT asking for a friend. Yet I’ve had such words spoken to me. In my mind, it would have been cheating. In her mind, maybe not.

So is it black and white? I prefer the answer to be yes.
Not sure if its cheating if done with the agreement of the spouse, but its still adultery and unfaithfulness.
 

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True.

However, everyone deals with their hurt and pain in different ways. We all grow and change as our time passes. Sometimes, people get stuck. Their lives are so intertwined that they do not even know where to start untangling that knot that developed. There are always so many what ifs, ands or buts.

I just believe that we all need to take the time to look at a situation as a whole before we villanize someone and place the entirety of the blame on them, because when you look in, there is always a lot more at play.

Saying a cheater is entirely at fault negates everything else that surrounds them and minimizes it and paints everyone with the same brush. most often the truth is behind closed doors.

People need to be more self aware and accept their responsibility in situations so that they can grow, or they can completely blame the other person for everything and be bitter and accomplish no true healing.


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yet many are in not so good marriages yet don't cheat.
 
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