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Discussion Starter #1
This is kind of spinning off from a post I made on another thread but wanted to have some more input and your thoughts on this topic.

I saw an interesting panel discussion on youtube awhile back where a group of men were discussing the relationship, sex, dating, marriage environment in current times and one of the panelists brought up something that I thought was interesting but the more I got to thinking about it, the more I thought it deserved some discussion here.

His premise was that people often advise others on what traits and characteristics to look for in a potential partner/spouse and when they find someone that checks off those boxes to go for that person. That seems kind of typical and how many of us were brought up and even here on these forums people often say to come up with a list of critical criteria you must have as well as have deal breakers and boundaries etc etc and "Don't settle!."

I think women are often hammered with that more than men, but men certainly get that message as well. (and they probably should)

However this guy took kind of an opposite approach and listed off a series of traits and characteristics and accomplishments that the man himself should achieve in himself before even considering looking for permanent partner or considering marriage.

His list of requirments before seeking marriage/mate was -
-Be at least 30 years old.
-Be in great physical shape and looking the best that you can.
-Have a solid career and income of at least $100k/yr with no significant debt or financial liability.
-Have been with at least 50 women in a variety of dating and sexual scenarios.

His rationale was that if a guy develops himself to those criteria that he will be very solidly attractive to a wide pool of women and will have the life experience and wisdom to select a mate that will be best for him.

And if he hasn't achieved those things or met those requirements of himself, then his selection pool will be much more limited and he will more likely than not have to settle and compromise and take whatever he can get.

At first I kind of rolled my eyes and said, "whatever" ,,, but the more I've gotten to thinking about it, the more I see the wisdom in it.

Should we be shifting more time and energy from teaching young men what to look for in a mate and hoping that they can pull it off, and instead be teaching them to develop themselves and become more attractive and desirable so that they are able to have a larger selection pool to choose from and that cream will rise to the top naturally so that they will be able to select that which will work best for them?

What are your thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
To share my own experience, this was not how I was raised or the message that I was given as a young man.

Now I was told to go to school so I could get a good job and if I had a good job that girls would like me. I got that message loud and clear.

But I was also given a list of criteria of what to look for in a mate and at 18 I was sent out into the world with a "good luck with that" and went out into the quagmire of trying to find someone that would give me the time of day as a scrawny nerd with Woodsy The Owl glasses.

I also grew up in a small farming community in the midwest where most of the jocks married the cheerleaders that they knocked up in high school and science nerds in the physics club latched on to the first female that gave them the time of day at college.

I was the outlier of my generation in that I was an actual single adult living and working and eventually dating in the world. I got kicked in the teeth a lot, had a few heartbreaks and a lot of dead ends and struggles and challenges. And even though by the time I was in my mid 20s I was dating and hooking up regularly and even spinning plates at various times, I was looked at as an oddity by the time I was in my upper 20s and not married and dealing with kids. I was accused of being a womanizer and player. I was accused of being a man-child and Peter Pan. And I even had my sexual orientation slyly questioned even though by the time I was in my upper 20s I had women coming in the front door and leaving out the backdoor so they didn't bump into each other.

HOWEVER, looking at the criteria above, I pretty much checked off all those boxes mentioned above even though it was quite unwittingly and not according to plan or social convention.

By the time I was 30, I was not making 100k, however in that time (almost 30 years ago) and place (midwest farming area) I was pretty close and I had no debt or liability whatsoever. And I had pretty much checked off all of those other criteria.

When I was 30 years old, my challenges were keeping all the plates spinning and when the time was coming that I was kind of wanting to settle down and have a home and family, my challenge was in trying to decide which one to pick out of the pool of qualified candidates.

10 years earlier, getting an attractive girl my age to say hi back to me was a major accomplishment.

At 30, I had attractive, educated, sane, sober, sexy women knocking on my door for attention in the middle of the night and were approaching me about a life together.

In retrospect, I think the recommendations above are quite valid.
 

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Well, it's easier to make goals to meet for yourself than it is to find that "perfect person" that would check a list of boxes. So yeah, that's a great idea! Look within.
 

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I think this search for a magic recipe is very attractive but there is no one-size fits all solution here. It is tempting to be reductive here, but that means you may end up trying to be something you simply aren't. There is a lot to be said for being comfortable and confident in your own skin. So I would generally agree that settling down too early is probably a bad idea but I would argue that setting goals and objectives that have genuine value to you are going to be better around than chasing the big payday and the six-pack because that is what people tell you is important.
 

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Funny, the pre requisites listed above still don't work out for many. However, I would agree with you 110% that working to improve yourself is a much better accomplishment than checking boxes. Keep in mind though, personality similarities and communication will take you farther in relationships than most anything else, those should be very important boxes to check off.
 

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This is kind of spinning off from a post I made on another thread but wanted to have some more input and your thoughts on this topic.

I saw an interesting panel discussion on youtube awhile back where a group of men were discussing the relationship, sex, dating, marriage environment in current times and one of the panelists brought up something that I thought was interesting but the more I got to thinking about it, the more I thought it deserved some discussion here.

His premise was that people often advise others on what traits and characteristics to look for in a potential partner/spouse and when they find someone that checks off those boxes to go for that person. That seems kind of typical and how many of us were brought up and even here on these forums people often say to come up with a list of critical criteria you must have as well as have deal breakers and boundaries etc etc and "Don't settle!."

I think women are often hammered with that more than men, but men certainly get that message as well. (and they probably should)

However this guy took kind of an opposite approach and listed off a series of traits and characteristics and accomplishments that the man himself should achieve in himself before even considering looking for permanent partner or considering marriage.

His list of requirments before seeking marriage/mate was -
-Be at least 30 years old.
-Be in great physical shape and looking the best that you can.
-Have a solid career and income of at least $100k/yr with no significant debt or financial liability.
-Have been with at least 50 women in a variety of dating and sexual scenarios.

His rationale was that if a guy develops himself to those criteria that he will be very solidly attractive to a wide pool of women and will have the life experience and wisdom to select a mate that will be best for him.

And if he hasn't achieved those things or met those requirements of himself, then his selection pool will be much more limited and he will more likely than not have to settle and compromise and take whatever he can get.

At first I kind of rolled my eyes and said, "whatever" ,,, but the more I've gotten to thinking about it, the more I see the wisdom in it.

Should we be shifting more time and energy from teaching young men what to look for in a mate and hoping that they can pull it off, and instead be teaching them to develop themselves and become more attractive and desirable so that they are able to have a larger selection pool to choose from and that cream will rise to the top naturally so that they will be able to select that which will work best for them?

What are your thoughts?
Being the best person we can be is always a good thing, but the qualities he quotes wouldn't in anyway be what makes a good man, husband or father.

Surely things like being a man of good character, having integrity, decency, honesty and knowing to treat others with respect are far more important.
None of the points quoted would matter to me, and the multiple sexual partners would put me off entirely.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No one list would fit everyone.

I agree with the idea that a man should be more focused on his goals and development than pursuing women.

A lot of women find men like that more attractive anyway.
Point being - When a man achieves a certain level of physical fitness, financial success, social status and social and interpersonal skills, he does not need to pursue women.

They will come to him.
 

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Men should chase excellence, the women will come. What's sad is most people would get cut from that list just based on being in shape, the one thing we all have total control over.

However we shouldn't just tell young men to go chase excellence and everything will work out. The old, just be a good, hard working guy advice will just get a man eventually raped in divorce court today.
 

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I suppose I am an old romantic but I believe that you know when you meet “the one” which I did when I was 16 and my wife was 14. She felt the same and we knew we were going to be forever.

I don’t think I consciously had a list and I do think that approach takes a lot of the magic out of everything, making it more of a process than an affair of the heart. I wanted a partner who had similar interests and values to me and my wife told me she wanted someone who was tall, had big hands and wide shoulders.

I agree that you should try to make the best of yourself but my experience, and that of a lot of my friends, is that women tend to mould men into what they want them to be, and that is not a bad thing. Certainly made me a better person.

As I said above, we met very young and have been together 50 years this December. Never felt that we were missing out and have shared experiences together through life. Friends when we were 16 - 18 always boasted about the numbers of girlfriends they had but they certainly didn’t have the sex life that we had, made all the more fulfilling because it was based on love and not just rampant hormones.

We had children young (24 and 22) and it was a struggle at first but we reaped the reward in later life as our children grew up and left home when we were in our early 50’s, leaving us freer to enjoy a more extravagant lifestyle and have energy for baby grandchildren.

I do think we appreciate that we have been very lucky. It has been hard at times but we learnt to compromise and that it was always me that had to say sorry 😆. I suppose the biggest thing is that we always put the other one first and we put real effort into making sure life never gets boring.

Would I change anything? Yes, I would have looked after my teeth better and gone to the gym earlier
 

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Ew. Having been with 50 women would be a hard pass from me. I'd be the opposite of impressed.

Not all guys can make 100k by 30 and that's okay. It really depends on where you live.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Funny, the pre requisites listed above still don't work out for many. However, I would agree with you 110% that working to improve yourself is a much better accomplishment than checking boxes. Keep in mind though, personality similarities and communication will take you farther in relationships than most anything else, those should be very important boxes to check off.
Personality similarities and communication are important but the point here is if a man meets those benchmarks, he will be in a better position to select someone that better matches his personality and communication abilities.

A 30 year old that has reached that level of financial success and has that dating history, “should” have the social and interpersonal skills that a guy could get a suitable partner if he wanted one.
 

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I suppose I am an old romantic but I believe that you know when you meet “the one” which I did when I was 16 and my wife was 14. She felt the same and we knew we were going to be forever.

I don’t think I consciously had a list and I do think that approach takes a lot of the magic out of everything, making it more of a process than an affair of the heart. I wanted a partner who had similar interests and values to me and my wife told me she wanted someone who was tall, had big hands and wide shoulders.

I agree that you should try to make the best of yourself but my experience, and that of a lot of my friends, is that women tend to mould men into what they want them to be, and that is not a bad thing. Certainly made me a better person.

As I said above, we met very young and have been together 50 years this December. Never felt that we were missing out and have shared experiences together through life. Friends when we were 16 - 18 always boasted about the numbers of girlfriends they had but they certainly didn’t have the sex life that we had, made all the more fulfilling because it was based on love and not just rampant hormones.

We had children young (24 and 22) and it was a struggle at first but we reaped the reward in later life as our children grew up and left home when we were in our early 50’s, leaving us freer to enjoy a more extravagant lifestyle and have energy for baby grandchildren.

I do think we appreciate that we have been very lucky. It has been hard at times but we learnt to compromise and that it was always me that had to say sorry 😆. I suppose the biggest thing is that we always put the other one first and we put real effort into making sure life never gets boring.

Would I change anything? Yes, I would have looked after my teeth better and gone to the gym earlier
I think there was a time when what you did was the norm, my grandparents have a similar story as do many of my friends grandparents. And no that is not a dig at your age. I think a lot of people wish things were still like that.

Would you say this model or way of doing things works today? Back then if a woman was in a small town she was limited to the guys in that town. Today she can get attention from literally all over the world. Women are taught they can have it all (career, kids, perfect guy) and not have to sacrifice anything. Women back then couldn't have 12 different email addresses and aliases on different chatting apps.
 

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With so many guys being raised without a father today, I question how many would ever reach that notch count even if they had everything else?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
As you build your portfolio of 50 women, do you inform them you will never marry them, but are looking for outfit your bed post notches so you can marry a different girl someday?
It’s not about notching bedposts. It’s getting off the bleachers on the Sidelines and getting onto the field and developing social and interpersonal skills and dating skills.

People should follow their own values and moral compass in regards to actual sex and if they don’t want to have actual sex with multiple people before marriage, they do not have to. But it is still in their better interest to at least get out and meet people and interact and go on dates etc to develop their dating skills and at least experience and learn about women.

And to honest, no one is really going to want to be marrying very many young men in their early 20s anyway.

People in general are not marrying as young as my generation did (that’s a good thing!!) so it’s not like these young guys are going to be being pressured for marriage to begin with.

And as a guy climbs up the civil economic ladder into to his mid-upper 20s, he can simply say he is working on developing his career and personal development and not focused on finding a mate and marrying at this point.

It’s actually the more responsible and wise path to be on at that point. It’s not a bad thing and it’s not something dark and nefarious.

Just because a guy is not focusing on marriage and family etc does NOT automatically mean that he is a playa’ or a womanizer.

It’s developing himself so he can make more suitable choices and be in a better position to be a better partner and more stable and supportive father.
 

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As you build your portfolio of 50 women, do you inform them you will never marry them, but are looking for outfit your bed post notches so you can marry a different girl someday?
Indeed! I am also tempted to ask, if you meet the right woman before you get to the 50 count, are you allowed to call a halt to it and marry her?
 

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It’s not about notching bedposts. It’s getting off the bleachers on the Sidelines and getting onto the field and developing social and interpersonal skills and dating skills.
I can understand that, but there is my problem with it:

If you are dating, to not be serious, not working on compromise, communication, teamwork, and all of the things that are required to make a successful marriage, then what is the point? Jerking off isn't good practice for having sex. Dating multiple women is not practice for building a long term relationship.

If there is nothing to lose in all of these early relationships, then you will risk nothing, and learn little.
 

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As you build your portfolio of 50 women, do you inform them you will never marry them, but are looking for outfit your bed post notches so you can marry a different girl someday?
I don’t really see it as building a portfolio per se. it’s more like if you are the type of person who wants to play the field and date/sleep with hundreds of women then you need to get this out of your system before you even think about settling down with one person.
 

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I don’t really see it as building a portfolio per se. it’s more like if you are the type of person who wants to play the field and date/sleep with hundreds of women then you need to get this out of your system before you even think about settling down with one person.
That's not the way it was written though. It was written that those 50 women are learning experiences, practice, etc, so you can pick the one someday.

If you have really dated (when I say really, I mean like made a relationship) 50 women by the time you are 30, you are either a bad guy that gets dumped, or you are bad at picking women.
 
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