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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I've just read my umpteenth post about "take her sh1t and put it on the lawn." I don't think I can take this any more, and have to say something about it.

When you are older (I did not, frankly, investigate the ages of the parties involved in that last post), you have accumulated a lot of sh1t. You may have a basement full of stuff, a garage full of stuff, or both. No, I don't refer to hoarders. Many people have accumulated lots of stuff. They have accumulated mutual debt. They have accumulated kids. They have accumulated vehicles. Lots of sh1t. This is evidence of life together, in a marriage, a marriage that once worked.

If we were to part out our stuff, I would not even know where to begin. Where would my train collection go? Where would her Christmas collection go?

Not everything can be put out on a lawn, as a matter of fact very little can be put out there.

There is lots of good advice on this board, but chucking somebody's belongings or other obligations out on a front lawn does not work. If you want to say, "pack a bag of their clothes and throw them out the door," maybe that works. But you cannot toss the accumulation of a lifetime out the front door. Doesn't work that way.
 

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I think they are refering to clean undies and a change clothes. You can chose to pack a toothbrush for them also, but it depends on how generous you feel. LOL. You are right, a long time marriage can accumuliate a lot of crap. Think of it as a move, get rid of the clutter.
 

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It is a metaphor. Essentially, I think if you toss all her/his clothes on the lawn, I think the offending party (and the neighbors) will get the memo.
The more formal division vis a vis the train/Christmas China collection comes later.

.

The above is a point. You missed it.
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Okay, I've just read my umpteenth post about "take her sh1t and put it on the lawn." I don't think I can take this any more, and have to say something about it. ...........................


There is lots of good advice on this board, but chucking somebody's belongings or other obligations out on a front lawn does not work. If you want to say, "pack a bag of their clothes and throw them out the door," maybe that works. But you cannot toss the accumulation of a lifetime out the front door. Doesn't work that way.
bobka,

There are as many different kinds of advice on TAM as there are people. You take what you find to be useful to your own personal situation and apply it........ then, disregard the rest.

There is NEVER a one-size fits all pre-packaged answer that works for everyone. TAM can be a very helpful tool in navigating through these situations and it can, also, drive you out of your mind, if you allow it. I've had my share of those days and, God love B1, he has been my rock in helping me get through them. You own your mind.... you decide what to allow in it or not. Maybe this week some of the advice you receive, here, will sound ridiculous, but next week it might make more sense. Then, again, most of it is just someone else's opinion. There are no real experts here... just people, just opinions, but much of this advice and wisdom has come the painful and hard-earned way and I'd like to think that, most everyone, here, has genuinely good intentions of helping others be spared from having to learn, what they have already learned, the hard and painful way.

But, feel free to "chuck the advice you receive, here, on the front lawn" and keep your wife's belongings in the house if you'd like, it's really up to you. I used to spend too much time trying to "please" everyone on TAM. I wanted everyone to "like/understand" me. You have your own life, wife and marriage.... no matter the outcome, to worry about. Don't expend too much energy trying to please everyone. But, do understand, many of us have been where you are, some of us still are and a lot of the advice that is given, here, has proven to be very, very helpful to ourselves and many others.

Take care, bobka,
EI
 

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Discussion Starter #5
bobka,

There are as many different kinds of advice on TAM as there are people. You take what you find to be useful to your own personal situation and apply it........ then, disregard the rest.

There is NEVER a one-size fits all pre-packaged answer that works for everyone. TAM can be a very helpful tool in navigating through these situations and it can, also, drive you out of your mind, if you allow it. I've had my share of those days and, God love B1, he has been my rock in helping me get through them. You own your mind.... you decide what to allow in it or not. Maybe this week some of the advice you receive, here, will sound ridiculous, but next week it might make more sense. Then, again, most of it is just someone else's opinion. There are no real experts here... just people, just opinions, but much of this advice and wisdom has come the painful and hard-earned way and I'd like to think that, most everyone, here, has genuinely good intentions of helping others be spared from having to learn, what they have already learned, the hard and painful way.

But, feel free to "chuck the advice you receive, here, on the front lawn" and keep your wife's belongings in the house if you'd like, it's really up to you. I used to spend too much time trying to "please" everyone on TAM. I wanted everyone to "like/understand" me. You have your own life, wife and marriage.... no matter the outcome, to worry about. Don't expend too much energy trying to please everyone. But, do understand, many of us have been where you are, some of us still are and a lot of the advice that is given, here, has proven to be very, very helpful to ourselves and many others.

Take care, bobka,
EI
Well, thank God you are here!

By the way, I was hoping that someone might get that my post is kinda allegorical. There's a lot about marriage that can't be easily chucked - not belongings at all, but all that has made your marriage what it is.
 

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I think they are refering to clean undies and a change clothes. You can chose to pack a toothbrush for them also, but it depends on how generous you feel. LOL. You are right, a long time marriage can accumuliate a lot of crap. Think of it as a move, get rid of the clutter.
:iagree:

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By the way, I was hoping that someone might get that my post is kinda allegorical. There's a lot about marriage that can't be easily chucked - not belongings at all, but all that has made your marriage what it is.
That is true. And a marriage shouldn't be easy to dissolve. But, there should be a point at which every person is willing to stand up for himself, have some self-respect, and kick the b!tch out. DVD collection be damned.
 

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Well, some people deserve to have all their sh!t thrown out on the lawn.
 

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You know what guys.... No matter what any of us think bobka's wife deserves, it shouldn't be nearly as important to us, right now, as what bobka needs. And, right now, he needs to be met where he is. He's in a tremendous amount of pain and this mob mentality is unhelpful and downright cruel. I know you think you're helping, but you're not. Who knows if what you're saying is right or not. But, if he can't hear the message, because the messenger is hell bent on delivering it with an AK47, then how is any of this going to help him. Everyone is not built the same way. Not everyone is a harda$$. If your approach isn't working, then what would be wrong with trying a different approach. And, if that's not your cup of tea, then post somewhere else.

There isn't one clear cut path to reconciliation or divorce. Some people have a zero tolerance "policy" for any type of an affair, and some need to know that they have tried everything in their power to reconcile the marriage before they're willing to walk away, and some people, for very personal reasons of their own, feel as though they can't walk away. Are they any less deserving of help or at least some kindness and compassion than those who follow the standard TAM advice of do the 180, go dark, throw the WS's $hit on the lawn and file? He can always do that next week, or the week after or 6 months from now, if that's what he determines he needs to do. But, he isn't there, yet. And, he may never be.

And, finally, I'm going to say something that isn't going to make me very popular on TAM, but what the Hell, as a former WS, I'm not exactly on the "most respected TAM member's list," anyway.... so, here goes nothing. I have to wonder if there might be so many bitter BS's on TAM because they have a "my way or the highway" mentality and refuse to accept that there is more than one way of looking at things. We don't live in a black and white world. They are many, many shades of grey.

RANT OVER...................

Take care,
EI
 

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You know what guys.... No matter what any of us think bobka's wife deserves, it shouldn't be nearly as important to us, right now, as what bobka needs. And, right now, he needs to be met where he is. ... There isn't one clear cut path to reconciliation or divorce.
You are correct. Bobka needs what he needs. I just disagree on what he needs. He has stated that he wants to reconcile at all costs. The irony is, that attitude makes reconciliation more difficult. We have seen on this board, many times, that the inevitable shame and financial difficulty that divorce presents can cause a WS to reconsider and recommit to the marriage. I have never seen any threads where a BS accepted the blame for his wife's affair, just loved her through it, let her get it out of her system, and was rewarded by a loyal spouse at the end of it all.

Personally, I don't think that's cruel. Perhaps his marriage can be saved. Perhaps it can't. But, his current approach isn't working. I don't think it's cruel to tell him that it won't work. I also don't think it's cruel to tell him that, in five years, he will probably be happier as a divorced man with self-respect than living as a cuckold. If I'm wrong, there are many pro-cuckold forums on the internet. Other men will welcome him into the brotherhood with open arms. And I wish him luck. But this is not a pro-cuckolding forum.

I have to wonder if there might be so many bitter BS's on TAM because they have a "my way or the highway" mentality and refuse to accept that there is more than one way of looking at things. We don't live in a black and white world. They are many, many shades of grey.
I think the BS's are bitter because of the betrayal they've suffered. There are few things that can wound one as deeply as one's spouse cheating. So, I think the answer is simply that. I don't really think that a more nuanced view of right and wrong is the right prescription for that kind of wound. Shades of grey do exist. But right and wrong are sometimes absolute and immutable.
 

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RANT OVER...................

Take care,
EI
I appreciate your sentiment. But, Im afraid you couldn't be more wrong about this.

My opinion is not based on any sort of bitterness, anger or hurt. It comes down to simple human behavioral modification. As cold and callous as that sounds, All behaviors are born of a motivation to avoid pain or gain pleasure.

Modification of the perceived cost/benefit of any behavior is what insures that a person does not easily repeat a behavior that they obviously found extremely stimulating and pleasurable at one point. Risk MUST outweigh reward, therefore potential pain must outweigh the percieved pleasure they could gain.

This simple explanation of why your 'soft approach' is futile doesn't even begin to explore the psychological impact of infidelity and the fallout...

I could debate this in great depth and not because this approach was successful for me personally. Quite the opposite actually. I have no regets though, I feel like I did what gave me and my marriage the best chance at sustained success.

Something that most people who come here for advice don't want to hear or accept is that regardless what you do and how you do it the overwelming probablity is that after infidelity your marriage is over and it's just a matter time.

Sure there are exceptions to everything, and there are many ways to skin a cat... But, regardless how you choose to do it, the skin has to come off.
 

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Well, thank God you are here!

By the way, I was hoping that someone might get that my post is kinda allegorical. There's a lot about marriage that can't be easily chucked - not belongings at all, but all that has made your marriage what it is.
So, allegorically speaking, where do you suppose your allegorical belongings are when your significant other decides to step out of the marriage that was all built up? It was pretty easily chucked, wasn't it? And for what? Next to nothing in the grand scheme, absolutely nothing. Literally chucking some of their stuff on the lawn would be an effective way to hammer the point home, because usually, the Wayward has not got a clue what the implications are of there actions.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You know what guys.... No matter what any of us think bobka's wife deserves, it shouldn't be nearly as important to us, right now, as what bobka needs. And, right now, he needs to be met where he is. He's in a tremendous amount of pain and this mob mentality is unhelpful and downright cruel. I know you think you're helping, but you're not. Who knows if what you're saying is right or not. But, if he can't hear the message, because the messenger is hell bent on delivering it with an AK47, then how is any of this going to help him. Everyone is not built the same way. Not everyone is a harda$$. If your approach isn't working, then what would be wrong with trying a different approach. And, if that's not your cup of tea, then post somewhere else.

There isn't one clear cut path to reconciliation or divorce. Some people have a zero tolerance "policy" for any type of an affair, and some need to know that they have tried everything in their power to reconcile the marriage before they're willing to walk away, and some people, for very personal reasons of their own, feel as though they can't walk away. Are they any less deserving of help or at least some kindness and compassion than those who follow the standard TAM advice of do the 180, go dark, throw the WS's $hit on the lawn and file? He can always do that next week, or the week after or 6 months from now, if that's what he determines he needs to do. But, he isn't there, yet. And, he may never be.

It is true and may become true that this is where I am in 3 weeks or 6 months, filing for divorce. Between then and now, for some of the very personal reasons EI is talking about I both want to try everything I can to help make this work out, and for many other reasons can't just walk away.

There are so many details that can't be explained in a post, and although EI is so good at detailing, I have assumed at times that a little information was enough. Assumed that people knew where our finances were. Assumed they knew that we are Christians and try and hold ourselves to that standard (just leave that alone if you want to say something nasty).

And, finally, I'm going to say something that isn't going to make me very popular on TAM, but what the Hell, as a former WS, I'm not exactly on the "most respected TAM member's list," anyway.... so, here goes nothing. I have to wonder if there might be so many bitter BS's on TAM because they have a "my way or the highway" mentality and refuse to accept that there is more than one way of looking at things. We don't live in a black and white world. They are many, many shades of grey.

There is SO much grey.

RANT OVER...................

Take care,
EI
 

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You know what guys.... No matter what any of us think bobka's wife deserves, it shouldn't be nearly as important to us, right now, as what bobka needs. And, right now, he needs to be met where he is. He's in a tremendous amount of pain and this mob mentality is unhelpful and downright cruel. I know you think you're helping, but you're not. Who knows if what you're saying is right or not. But, if he can't hear the message, because the messenger is hell bent on delivering it with an AK47, then how is any of this going to help him. Everyone is not built the same way. Not everyone is a harda$$. If your approach isn't working, then what would be wrong with trying a different approach. And, if that's not your cup of tea, then post somewhere else.

There isn't one clear cut path to reconciliation or divorce. Some people have a zero tolerance "policy" for any type of an affair, and some need to know that they have tried everything in their power to reconcile the marriage before they're willing to walk away, and some people, for very personal reasons of their own, feel as though they can't walk away. Are they any less deserving of help or at least some kindness and compassion than those who follow the standard TAM advice of do the 180, go dark, throw the WS's $hit on the lawn and file? He can always do that next week, or the week after or 6 months from now, if that's what he determines he needs to do. But, he isn't there, yet. And, he may never be.

And, finally, I'm going to say something that isn't going to make me very popular on TAM, but what the Hell, as a former WS, I'm not exactly on the "most respected TAM member's list," anyway.... so, here goes nothing. I have to wonder if there might be so many bitter BS's on TAM because they have a "my way or the highway" mentality and refuse to accept that there is more than one way of looking at things. We don't live in a black and white world. They are many, many shades of grey.

RANT OVER...................

Take care,
EI
There is no gray, thats just enabling.

Someone cheats their ass needs to be on the chopping block, period. If not then the BS can't make the assurances he needs to R. So many marriages don't do the my way or the highway, they try compromise after an affair.

Early compromise leads to rugsweep, rugsweep leads to false R/repeat affair.

I understand you have your opinion, and I respect that, but it does not work for many marriages. And most of the demand stems from the BS's pain, that no one who hasn't been cheated on can ever understand.
 

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We are successfully R'ing and the very first thing I did when I found out what he was up to was kick him out. I don't understand why kicking them out or putting their stuff on the lawn or whatever has to mean the end of your relationship. What it is is a VERY clear message that you will NOT put up with their BS any longer. What they do with that is up to them, and gives you a pretty good idea whether they're actually remorseful or not. IT WORKS. And I know I'm not the only one on here that it's worked for.
 

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They don't literally mean all her stuff LOL!

Just some clothes and maybe a toothbrush that you've rinsed in the toilet. Oh and the sexy undies she doesn't wear for you.

ETA: HOPE: your avatar is FREAKING me out. I want to shower and wash all my bedding when I see it.
 

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ETA: HOPE: your avatar is FREAKING me out. I want to shower and wash all my bedding when I see it.
I could have used this one but I wasn't sure it was allowed



Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
 

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Yes, before the cheating it is black and white. Nothing good comes from the choice to indulge oneself and cheat. It takes any situation and makes it so very much worse. The grey, well that comes after, in trying to untangle the mess that's left, and piece your life back together. Speaking ad a BS. I imagine there's lots of grey for the WS after too, unless they're mentally ill.
 

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There is no gray, thats just enabling.

Someone cheats their ass needs to be on the chopping block, period. If not then the BS can't make the assurances he needs to R. So many marriages don't do the my way or the highway, they try compromise after an affair.

Have you sought and had anything like success at R?

Early compromise leads to rugsweep, rugsweep leads to false R/repeat affair.

I understand you have your opinion, and I respect that, but it does not work for many marriages. And most of the demand stems from the BS's pain, that no one who hasn't been cheated on can ever understand.
How have things ended up for you?
 
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