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The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

132K views 193 replies 55 participants last post by  anchorwatch 
#1 ·
In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair.
When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.

The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
1. Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first
2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work
3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you
4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME
5. Anxiously keep trying to make up when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you
6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping)
7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior
8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework
9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict
10. Are constantly seeking their approval
11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you
12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex
The COOL partner wants less warmth so they:
1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as:
a. Discussions about the R
b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment
2. Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature
3. Provoke their partner to create conflict and space

The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly.

The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right.
 
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#2 ·
MEM...

Switch the "he" and "she."

does this still apply?

IF you find yourself as the "warm/hot" partner in this mismatch, (in some but not all of the ways that are listed), what do you do to change the dynamic?

One more question:
What is "IAILWY" ?
 
#5 ·
Me too.

I'm the HOT partner and that's what I'm trying to pull away from. It's erie how accurate your list was. To do this I'm:

1. Not saying ILY first. In fact, I haven't said it in a week and neither has he.
2. I have not initiated any calls in almost two weeks.
3. After our last spat, I did not call to apologize or try to make up, he was clearly in the wrong and it wasn't up to me to do the making up.
4. After the last spat, I came home in a good mood and acted like nothing had happened even though I was upset.
5. Not doing it anymore
6. Trying to detach from that also. Not initiating the "goodnight" kiss, or the hug first, or any type of touching FIRST.
7. Not initiating any more "talks" about the R. If he has issues, he knows where I am, this one-sided marriage is not working for me anymore.
8. We already had this worked out. I do INSIDE, he does OUTSIDE (we have 2 acres). So no issues here, never has been.
9. This I have trouble with, but working on it. Like the other day when he invited me to lunch, told him I was busy, in the past I would have dropped what I was doing and joined him.
10. I'm still working on this too. I'm trying to figure out why it's so DAMN important to me that I get his approval - I didn't need it before I met him.
11. I get a knot in my stomach when he is upset with me - this will take time to figure out in counselling.
12. Boy with this one - you sound like you were sitting on my shoulder. I can't read his body language anymore and am afraid to even initiate and yes, I do get pissed when he rejects me - though I should be used to it by now. But rejection moves me back to #11 and #10. But - working on it.

And the COOL partner could describe my husband to a "T".


This is a timely thread, at least for me, and I would be happy to entertain additional suggestions, other than what I'm already doing to change this dynamic...permanently, to save my sanity and our relationship.
 
#8 ·
MW,
You really are doing all the right things. And it is also true he might ultimately prove to be a selfish/bad enough partner that you leave him. That said, at the point you leave you will have much less anguish/remorse because you will have known you did everything you could.

I will post a few more suggestions in the next day or so but mainly they will be along the lines of:
- After a fight - if you can detach and not let the "argument" become your emotional universe that is a big big help
- Fighting itself should become less emotional and more "rational" - are they willing to "commit" to doing/not doing specific things.
- Certain behaviors are just not acceptable to you and if they continue you will do x, y, z (you have to be willing to follow through)

A calm question that you insist on a clear answer to - and a firm/calm/determined statement of consequence for future bad behavior are all "low" temperature means of conflict. They are the hallmark of someone who will not stay in an emotionally toxic relationship because the other person is so "wonderful" on paper......
 
#7 ·
The HARDEST one for me is:

make peace after a spat.

Why is this so hard?

1. I like peace.
2. The spat was stupid, shouldn't have happened in the first place, so let's just clear it up and move on, shall we?
3. I'm afraid that if I don't step in to facilitate that peace, he won't, and he prefers the hostility/space/distance.
4. I want to show him how nice the alternative can be (clarifying, having peace, understanding)---if you want to throw the Codependent card at me, have at it.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#13 ·
Wow, MEM, it feels like you've been looking directly into my mind. Everything on your list strikes very close to home, other than #12. When my wife first slipped into depression, she had a really difficult time getting aroused and asked me not to initiate sex and to let her do it. Years later I've been so well-trained to not initiate that even after we've discussed it and I no longer "have" to wait for her to initiate, I still find myself mostly unable to do it. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that I am very good at reading her body language and unless she is initiating, her body language is radiating "no."

Excellent post though. I have to admit that I have built up some degree of resentment over the years, feeling a bit "ripped off" that I don't get the level of affection that I give and that overall I feel that I've been more emotionally invested in our relationship. When I've talked to her about wanting more affection that she was giving me, she basically told me that I was being too needy and that if I backed off and stopped wanting it so much that she'd feel more inclined to give it to me. I got angry about this, because she was going off of her anti-depressants at the time and for 3 or 4 months had been rather cool towards me, criticizing me and taking out her anger on me on a near-daily basis. I had the whole martyr thing going; I'd been patient and tolerant and loving, doing everything that she asked me to do, and all I wanted was a little more affection -- and she treated me like dirt instead?

Now, the part about me needing to back off and stop asking for her to be affectionate was absolutely true, and is an important part of this whole "man up/nice guy" stuff. At the time, it just felt like something else that she wanted me to do, and that was how it was taken. It didn't seem fair that I even had to ask for her to be more affectionate -- it should have just been a given that she would return my affection. I understand now that I need to not ask for her to be affectionate, but that is because I need to be responsible for my own happiness and it is not simply yet another request of hers in a seemingly endless stream of them. Of course, she didn't tell me that I also needed to back off and demonstrate less love and affection towards her, but it is clear to me now that this is the other half of the equation.

When she's feeling emotionally crowded or overwhelmed and as a result isn't emotionally available to me, I need to cool down both the level of affection that I expect to receive from her and the level of affection which I am demonstrating. She was emotionally overwhelmed and had nothing left to reciprocate, and I just amped up the amount of affection that I was demonstrating towards her.

And I understand now that this is at the core of the whole "nice guy" problem. When our partner pulls back on what they are contributing the the relationship -- be it affection, sex, demonstrations of love, housework, or whatever -- our natural response is to contribute even more in the hopes that it will somehow motivate them or convince them to do likewise. I see clearly now not only that this doesn't work, but that this actually makes it worse and perpetuates a cycle.
 
#14 ·
TG,
I noticed something utterly fascinating watching a show called "Bill and Guliana" - Bill Rancik was Trumps first apprentice.

This is what I noticed:
- Bill is the nice guy
- Guiliana is the alpha in their marriage

I watched an interview with Guiliana after the show launched and this is what she said "It was really eye opening WATCHING myself with Bill. I interrupt him a lot and don't treat him as well as I should".

If you put a hidden cam/tape recorder in your kitchen your W would legitimately get upset. BUT you can accomplish "almost" the same thing in certain situations.

Wife: Snaps at you
You: Quietly look at her until she is looking at you or you say something like "hey" to get her to look at you
You: Repeat what she said in as close to perfect tone/pitch and definitely verbatim on the words
You: Look at her silently with some body language that makes it perfectly clear "that" type treatment is not going to fly.
If she starts to argue - gets aggressive - just hold up your hand and firmly shake your head. Do not say anything - she understand perfectly what is happening. This interaction is NOT about communication, it is about bullying your partner. Her attempting to bully you. This will silently convey that "there is no WAY in hell are you going to get away with doubling down on this". If she continues just walk away and do NOT make the peace on this.

You need to get your W to UNLEARN the habit of taking her bad days out on you.

If you back off enough - while remaining fun/playful maybe even a little edgy SHE will come to you. And she will love you MORE. She wants an equal.

No matter WHAT you do with her. Practice a blend of very few words and reinforcing body language.

Do NOT talk about your feelings about HER behavior even if she asks. Her behaviors are all:
- respectful/disrespectful
- acceptable/unacceptable
- not ideal - followed by a brief/brief suggestion as to how you would prefer she handle that situation in the future

"You are better than that" is the adult version of parent/child guilt. Works like magic - if not overused.

When she asks "what is happening" just smile.
 
#15 ·
Seriously, if the H were the moody snapper in the above scene, would those steps be as effective if roles were reversed?
Or is it different with a moody angry man, because men are naturally more intimidating physcally etc.?
Considering differences between the sexes, how effective could that be if the wife is the one who stays calm and the H is hot-tempered?
He has no idea how much it is eroding my respect for him, but I guess that's beside the point.
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#16 ·
You can be as "soft" or as "firm" in approach style as you wish. All I know is with an angry guy he IS angry - get him to tell you why and he may start working on himself. Poke at him when he is already torqued and you likely won't learn anything and neither will he.

How "generally" angry is he that you aren't working?
 
#19 ·
Here's an interesting thing:

when he has one of those mini-tantrums, the consequence is that my temp cools down within the next day or so.
As a freaking survival defense mechanism.

I just don't cozy up warm and sweet to the guy who screams, cusses, and makes irrational threats.
The guy who can communicate rationally will get a good rogering from a happy, smiling wife.

When will he EVER get that message?

So yes, I'm playing it cool right now on the thermometer, but I'd rather be warm in a mutual way.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#23 ·
And p.s. These are things I figured out on my own after his strong reaction, and when I thought about it in the big picture of his reactions to his parents, to dealing with his in-laws, etc...
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#29 ·
And if there were things of "his" that he wanted to do, I'd happily do them!

I do...we go to his church and spend time with his friends an equal amount of time as mine.

But if he had something he was really into that he wanted me to join him for, I would.

I don't know...sometimes it just seems like he'd rather just be negative, and I don't get why.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#33 ·
I am a man, and the warmer one. She is cooler.

2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work
3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you
4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME
6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping)
7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior
8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework
9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict
10. Are constantly seeking their approval
11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you
12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex

The COOL partner wants less warmth so they:
1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as:
a. Discussions about the R
b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment

I have shown the applicable ones above.
I think this dynamic is even worse when the MAN is the warmer one.
At this point, after so many years.....I don't know if I want to even change it.
It is useful for a future relationship however.
 
#35 ·
Why not steadily ease up - lower the temperature. I bet she would really like that.

When she asks you "why didn't you" - call/text/email - etc?

Why didn't you ....,.... - that you usually do the answer is:

"Oh - I got busy doing X" - said in a friendly way.

You are NOT angry you are just not "chasing/crowding".

If she gets cranky with you about the change in behavior, often the best answer is: "If you wanted X, why didn't you call/text/email .... me"?

The next squabble you have that clearly is NOT your fault. Don't apologize. You don't need to demand SHE apologize. But stop encouraging her to treat you like this.
 
#37 ·
MWIL, you're right that we're butting heads.
But I'm afraid of setting this precedent:

he gets to the point where he loses his temper, yelling at me to shut up and get off his case already.
So I walk away. Disengage.
The lesson is: "if I yell at her to shut up and get off my case, she will. She will shrink away under my intimidating, inappropriate outburst. It worked."
me shutting up and shrinking away IS what he wants.
I don't want a pattern where he can shout me into silence. THAT'S what's not working for me.

Instead, things need to be caught and calm down before they hit that point, before he loses his cool.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#39 ·
Free,
What would happen if you simply began to make some minor alterations to your typical behavior:
1. Stop saying "ILY" first. Just stop doing it. For instance if you always say it when you leave the house in the morning you replace it with something friendly but less "hot". A simple "see you later" in an upbeat voice. That way you aren't leaving without saying "goodbye" you are just cooling the room a bit. In fact in every case where you currently say "ILY" first, replace it with something polite/but less "hot". And when your partner says it to you - just respond with "me to" or "love you too".
2. Stop initiating communication during the day. And please don't keep doing it while telling yourself you had a "valid" excuse. It is very rare that some question/discussion cannot wait until tonight. When your partner reaches out to you be friendly but keep the interaction brief. If he/she sends you a text - you can reply but keep it short and/or funny/playful. But don't flirt - let him/her make things sexual with you.
3. Pick one night a week to do something for you. The gym is best. Cards with your friends is fine. Going to a bar - is not good.
4. Do NOT do a lot more than your fair share of housework/cooking/errands. If you are, start making specific requests of your partner: Can you give me a hand cleaning the kitchen/folding the laundry/etc.
5. Ease up a bit on giving hugs - you don't have to stop - but ease up. Let them hug you/touch you.

Make an effort to be in a good mood when together. And be playful - a little banter/teasing (not about sensitive subjects like weight) is good. And if it turns into a game of chase/tag/or even better a wrestling match over the remote control - that is good. But let your partner meet you halfway on that.

When your partner 'challenges' you on this - do not explain and do not get defensive.
Them: Why didn't you call me today?
You: What?
Them: You usually call.
You: Work was really busy.
Them: Irritated - oh
You: I was thinking we might want to upgrade your cell phone plan?
Them: What?
You: So you can make "outbound" calls/texts when you want to get in touch with me
Them: Very funny
You: Quietly smiling
 
#42 ·
From one of Mort Fertel's emails:

"failed marriages eventually
succeed because at least one spouse commits to
doing SMALL THINGS in great ways over an extended
period of time.

Do you want REAL change in your marriage? Then
establish the RIGHT HABITS and do them
CONSISTENTLY. Talk and touch everyday, for
example....."

This seems to be contrary to the thinking of what a warm partner should be doing to the cold one.
 
#44 ·
MEM,

Need some clarification.

1. Say you approached your SO for intimacy, and she said...I'm too tired tonight babe. I will get you tomorrow. and you agree, because she did look tired.
Tomorrow comes, and you give her one of those 7 second kisses, and nod towards the bed, then she says...no way! It's 11 pm.
And this after she finished watching 2 hours of those 30 minute celebrity news shows.

Ok. Bare with me...these all tie together...

2. So I turn down the temp. For a long time. Thinking maybe she's cold and I'm smothering. Although NOW I realized it was a fitness test; this was still pre separation days. Except my lower thermometer didn't work at all.

So, my question is how long do you wait? I mean, there's only so long a high temp person can go cold before they reach absolute zero and just check out.

I also don't get the part about NEVER talking about the relationship. I mean, there has to come a point where you just have do bring up the fact that needs aren't being met, etc? Waiting too long seems self destructive for the marriage.
 
#45 ·
In that specific scenario you deal with it in the moment:
Babe, you chose to watch 2 hours of tv just now. It is not my responsibility to manage your sleep schedule. When you commit to connecting with me I expect you to manage your schedule in a way consistent with your commitment.

Now at that point you are going to learn something really important. Does she RESPECT you? If she does she admits she is in the wrong and either gets undressed or SWEARS tomorrow she will rock your world. And then tomorrow she does.

If those things don't happen you turn the temp down in areas that are important to HER. And you start thinking about Plan B, because this is no way to go through life.

And intermingled with all this - you consistently pass her fitness tests because your W was giving you a steady stream of them.
 
#51 ·
I do have a post on that somewhere. But the gist of it is very straightforward. Cut back in all the areas where you are "initiating" and she is not responding in a consistently positive way.

So change from saying "ILY" every time you talk on the phone or leave the house to a friendly "talk to you later/see you later".

If she says it - say it back. But stop going first. Same with hugs. If she is "letting" you hug her, cut way back. Way back. I hug my W alot. She loves it. It is obvious. No need to cut back. If however she seemed neutral on it, I would do a lot less of it. A LOT less.

At the same time work on whatever your annoying habits are. Not kidding about that. You have some. Do NOT tell her you are working on them. Just DO IT. And be fun/playful with her. But less direct expressions of love. Hugs, saying ILY. Kisses. Spooning. If she is "tolerating it" you are doing too much.

Go to the gym. Be around less.
 
#59 ·
This: ymmv is the universal acknowledgement that every one
Has a somewhat different situation it means your mileage may
Vary.




is me;330481]Ymmv?
Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]

Oh for hells sake I will post this. Not every woman out there is testing. :rolleyes: Lock yourself in a cave and all you see is what you want to see. The shadows are your reality. Not all women do tests or other bu!!****. You find a way in every situation to see it as a test. How about you just see your wife as a woman? Life isn't that flippin complicated. Fitness tests, pokes and other bull$hit? This website is rife with that bile. Hey, here's an idea..... stop making that complex. You go on and on about tests. Sometimes it isn't a test. It is just a bad day and should be allowed and not defined as some sort of marriage barometer.
 
#60 ·
You continue to miss the entire point of the exercise. It is exactly about seeing your wife as just a woman ... instead of a perfect woman.

By your own statements, your husband does not love you the way you want to be loved ... for years. You are the hotter partner in your relationship. You experience the same kind of frustration felt by many men that want to love their wives, the way you want to be loved.

It's disheartening to read that you claim to understand this one day, and utterly dismiss it as crap the next.

Everything ISN'T a fitness test. This thread isn't even so much about fitness testing. The irony is ... this thread is for you.
 
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#61 ·
I just want to love my wife and have her love me back.
You do this thing and use it as a gauge. If it becomes apparent the wife you love is perfectly comfortable without any demonstration or reciprocation of love that is meaningful to you, then it is time to consider if this is the person you want as a wife.
 
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#67 ·
I freely admit to being too sensitive, impatient, etc. for most of my 20 year marriage, so I accept blame where blame is due. I am trying to be an emotional rock but the rejection is still painful. If I withdraw a lot, my wife will see it as me being manipulative and trying to punish her. My wife blames my mother for not giving me enough affection when I was a child. Great, just great.



I worry I will reach a place that in order to cope, I just won't even care about her anymore.
I think it’s at this point when we begin to turn our love for our wife off. By giving our love, help, support etc. not only aren’t we getting anything positive back we get a whole bundle of pain as well. It’s a double whammy. It is the beginning of the end.
 
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