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I can see the wisdom in this, but some of it seems to go against the repairing methods that are encouraged by the Mort Fertel's emails. One specifically does encourage things that one spouse can do to repair which includes touching and complimenting.

Thoughts?
From one of Mort Fertel's emails:

"failed marriages eventually
succeed because at least one spouse commits to
doing SMALL THINGS in great ways over an extended
period of time.

Do you want REAL change in your marriage? Then
establish the RIGHT HABITS and do them
CONSISTENTLY. Talk and touch everyday, for
example....."

This seems to be contrary to the thinking of what a warm partner should be doing to the cold one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Let me summarize what Mort is suggesting:
- Try harder
- Be nicer/kinder/more considerate

If you are the "cool" partner it works like magic. Because maybe your "warmer/hot" partner is in the process of giving up. OR if you are the warm but clumsy partner who is always forgetting stuff, always giving them the type of gift they have told you they don't like - it can help.

In a relationship where the "hot" partner has already been doing WAY MORE than their cooler partner, what Mort suggests simply makes the problem worse. Because at "core" the hot/cool interaction really means this:
Hot: I love you more than you love me. I NEED you to love me more than you do.
Hot: YOU are more important than I am. You deserve a better partner than me, so I will try to make up for being the inferior partner by making more/much more effort than you do.
Cool: I feel smothered. WHY are you always crowding me? I don't really feel like saying ILY 5 times a day, but since YOU say it to me, I am pressured into responding in kind. BUT I DON'T WANT TO.
Cool: The LAST thing in the world I want to do is have sex with you. I ALREADY feel smothered, and sex just amplifies that. And in general your clingy/constant presence irritates me and is a HUGE turnoff.

Given that context:
The WORST thing the hot partner can do is get angry and act like a jerk. Because the cool partner sees that for what it is, the fury of rejection.

The two things that produce the best outcome for the hot partner are to be:
- More attractive (go to the gym, work on your conversational skills, learn how to more effectively deal with conflict) AND
- Less available

And a big part of combining those two things is being fun/playful while ALSO being less "loving" in the 5 love languages.

From one of Mort Fertel's emails:

"failed marriages eventually
succeed because at least one spouse commits to
doing SMALL THINGS in great ways over an extended
period of time.

Do you want REAL change in your marriage? Then
establish the RIGHT HABITS and do them
CONSISTENTLY. Talk and touch everyday, for
example....."

This seems to be contrary to the thinking of what a warm partner should be doing to the cold one.
 

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MEM,

Need some clarification.

1. Say you approached your SO for intimacy, and she said...I'm too tired tonight babe. I will get you tomorrow. and you agree, because she did look tired.
Tomorrow comes, and you give her one of those 7 second kisses, and nod towards the bed, then she says...no way! It's 11 pm.
And this after she finished watching 2 hours of those 30 minute celebrity news shows.

Ok. Bare with me...these all tie together...

2. So I turn down the temp. For a long time. Thinking maybe she's cold and I'm smothering. Although NOW I realized it was a fitness test; this was still pre separation days. Except my lower thermometer didn't work at all.

So, my question is how long do you wait? I mean, there's only so long a high temp person can go cold before they reach absolute zero and just check out.

I also don't get the part about NEVER talking about the relationship. I mean, there has to come a point where you just have do bring up the fact that needs aren't being met, etc? Waiting too long seems self destructive for the marriage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
In that specific scenario you deal with it in the moment:
Babe, you chose to watch 2 hours of tv just now. It is not my responsibility to manage your sleep schedule. When you commit to connecting with me I expect you to manage your schedule in a way consistent with your commitment.

Now at that point you are going to learn something really important. Does she RESPECT you? If she does she admits she is in the wrong and either gets undressed or SWEARS tomorrow she will rock your world. And then tomorrow she does.

If those things don't happen you turn the temp down in areas that are important to HER. And you start thinking about Plan B, because this is no way to go through life.

And intermingled with all this - you consistently pass her fitness tests because your W was giving you a steady stream of them.



MEM,

Need some clarification.

1. Say you approached your SO for intimacy, and she said...I'm too tired tonight babe. I will get you tomorrow. and you agree, because she did look tired.
Tomorrow comes, and you give her one of those 7 second kisses, and nod towards the bed, then she says...no way! It's 11 pm.
And this after she finished watching 2 hours of those 30 minute celebrity news shows.

Ok. Bare with me...these all tie together...

2. So I turn down the temp. For a long time. Thinking maybe she's cold and I'm smothering. Although NOW I realized it was a fitness test; this was still pre separation days. Except my lower thermometer didn't work at all.

So, my question is how long do you wait? I mean, there's only so long a high temp person can go cold before they reach absolute zero and just check out.

I also don't get the part about NEVER talking about the relationship. I mean, there has to come a point where you just have do bring up the fact that needs aren't being met, etc? Waiting too long seems self destructive for the marriage.
 

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Let me summarize what Mort is suggesting:
- Try harder
- Be nicer/kinder/more considerate

If you are the "cool" partner it works like magic. Because maybe your "warmer/hot" partner is in the process of giving up. OR if you are the warm but clumsy partner who is always forgetting stuff, always giving them the type of gift they have told you they don't like - it can help.

In a relationship where the "hot" partner has already been doing WAY MORE than their cooler partner, what Mort suggests simply makes the problem worse. Because at "core" the hot/cool interaction really means this:
Hot: I love you more than you love me. I NEED you to love me more than you do.
Hot: YOU are more important than I am. You deserve a better partner than me, so I will try to make up for being the inferior partner by making more/much more effort than you do.
Cool: I feel smothered. WHY are you always crowding me? I don't really feel like saying ILY 5 times a day, but since YOU say it to me, I am pressured into responding in kind. BUT I DON'T WANT TO.
Cool: The LAST thing in the world I want to do is have sex with you. I ALREADY feel smothered, and sex just amplifies that. And in general your clingy/constant presence irritates me and is a HUGE turnoff.

Given that context:
The WORST thing the hot partner can do is get angry and act like a jerk. Because the cool partner sees that for what it is, the fury of rejection.

The two things that produce the best outcome for the hot partner are to be:
- More attractive (go to the gym, work on your conversational skills, learn how to more effectively deal with conflict) AND
- Less available

And a big part of combining those two things is being fun/playful while ALSO being less "loving" in the 5 love languages.
I do appreciate the feedback and advice. This is helpful.

Just so I am clear (being the hot one), as long as she is not rejecting me or giving negative signs of a certain approach, it should still be good to continue, Example: no resistence to spooning in the morning, so OK. No negative feedback to me calling her at work to just say Hi hows the day going, both suggested by Mort.

At the same time, be less available outside those moments?

I have been working out for months and actually although 51 she recently told me I look like I am in my 30's. Nice compliment.
 

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Say you approached your SO for intimacy, and she said...I'm too tired tonight babe. I will get you tomorrow. and you agree, because she did look tired.
Tomorrow comes, and you give her one of those 7 second kisses, and nod towards the bed, then she says...no way! It's 11 pm....And this after she finished watching 2 hours of those 30 minute celebrity news shows.
She should have honored her commitment. But I wonder why you didn't express your intentions to follow up earlier in the evening? Her two-hour junk-TV marathon sounds like a fitness test. Either she planned to outwait you until she had an excuse to deny (that it was too late in the evening), or she wanted to see whether you were interested enough to even suggest interrupting her stupid show.

Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Great point.

I will often say at 7/8 - see you in bed at 10 - with a smile.

If she comes to bed later than that it is her responsibility not to come to bed tired/listless/etc. But I have never gone to the tv room and turned off the tv at 10 sharp. Actually I think she would be fine with that - it just isn't my style to do that naturally. It seems too controlling.

She should have honored her commitment. But I wonder why you didn't express your intentions to follow up earlier in the evening? Her two-hour junk-TV marathon sounds like a fitness test. Either she planned to outwait you until she had an excuse to deny (that it was too late in the evening), or she wanted to see whether you were interested enough to even suggest interrupting her stupid show.

Just a thought.
 

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She should have honored her commitment. But I wonder why you didn't express your intentions to follow up earlier in the evening? Her two-hour junk-TV marathon sounds like a fitness test. Either she planned to outwait you until she had an excuse to deny (that it was too late in the evening), or she wanted to see whether you were interested enough to even suggest interrupting her stupid show.

Just a thought.
No reason. I dont care for those shows...waste of time. So I usually would go downstairs and practice my guitar or violin. It just happened in that particular instance I finished up when her shows were done. So it would have been good timing if it worked out for me. But....no. Plus I failed the fitness test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I do have a post on that somewhere. But the gist of it is very straightforward. Cut back in all the areas where you are "initiating" and she is not responding in a consistently positive way.

So change from saying "ILY" every time you talk on the phone or leave the house to a friendly "talk to you later/see you later".

If she says it - say it back. But stop going first. Same with hugs. If she is "letting" you hug her, cut way back. Way back. I hug my W alot. She loves it. It is obvious. No need to cut back. If however she seemed neutral on it, I would do a lot less of it. A LOT less.

At the same time work on whatever your annoying habits are. Not kidding about that. You have some. Do NOT tell her you are working on them. Just DO IT. And be fun/playful with her. But less direct expressions of love. Hugs, saying ILY. Kisses. Spooning. If she is "tolerating it" you are doing too much.

Go to the gym. Be around less.

Mem

Did you ever post Changing the temp? If so where is it?
 

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Hold on a second.

In a 180 you are doing a total shutdown. Here you are being friendly, upbeat but much less overtly expressive of love.
When you look at the list from the 180, it does allow for you to interact in a pleasant way. Not a complete shut down. #19 reads show her someone she would want to be around. 13 be cheerful.... etc.
 

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I do have a post on that somewhere. But the gist of it is very straightforward. Cut back in all the areas where you are "initiating" and she is not responding in a consistently positive way.

So change from saying "ILY" every time you talk on the phone or leave the house to a friendly "talk to you later/see you later".

If she says it - say it back. But stop going first. Same with hugs. If she is "letting" you hug her, cut way back. Way back. I hug my W alot. She loves it. It is obvious. No need to cut back. If however she seemed neutral on it, I would do a lot less of it. A LOT less.

At the same time work on whatever your annoying habits are. Not kidding about that. You have some. Do NOT tell her you are working on them. Just DO IT. And be fun/playful with her. But less direct expressions of love. Hugs, saying ILY. Kisses. Spooning. If she is "tolerating it" you are doing too much.

Go to the gym. Be around less.

I was just rereading this and thought how bizarre it is to be in this situation and talking about not telling my wife I love her or hugging her. And this is not a critique of the thermostat at all, just pointing out what a rotten marriage mine became.

Alway imagined I would get the same love I was giving just like Paul McCartney sang. This all makes me hope and pray I can someday find true love as it should be. Unconditional!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Women love their children unconditionally - not their male partners. This is not a critique - just a statement of fact.

The average male does not behave well when given unconditional love by his partner - and yes yes YMMV.

I was just rereading this and thought how bizarre it is to be in this situation and talking about not telling my wife I love her or hugging her. And this is not a critique of the thermostat at all, just pointing out what a rotten marriage mine became.

Alway imagined I would get the same love I was giving just like Paul McCartney sang. This all makes me hope and pray I can someday find true love as it should be. Unconditional!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
This: ymmv is the universal acknowledgement that every one
Has a somewhat different situation it means your mileage may
Vary.




is me;330481]Ymmv?[/QUOTE]
Posted via Mobile Device
 

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This: ymmv is the universal acknowledgement that every one
Has a somewhat different situation it means your mileage may
Vary.




is me;330481]Ymmv?
Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]

Oh for hells sake I will post this. Not every woman out there is testing. :rolleyes: Lock yourself in a cave and all you see is what you want to see. The shadows are your reality. Not all women do tests or other bu!!****. You find a way in every situation to see it as a test. How about you just see your wife as a woman? Life isn't that flippin complicated. Fitness tests, pokes and other bull$hit? This website is rife with that bile. Hey, here's an idea..... stop making that complex. You go on and on about tests. Sometimes it isn't a test. It is just a bad day and should be allowed and not defined as some sort of marriage barometer.
 

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You continue to miss the entire point of the exercise. It is exactly about seeing your wife as just a woman ... instead of a perfect woman.

By your own statements, your husband does not love you the way you want to be loved ... for years. You are the hotter partner in your relationship. You experience the same kind of frustration felt by many men that want to love their wives, the way you want to be loved.

It's disheartening to read that you claim to understand this one day, and utterly dismiss it as crap the next.

Everything ISN'T a fitness test. This thread isn't even so much about fitness testing. The irony is ... this thread is for you.
 
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