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Discussion Starter #81
Everything you've said is true.
I think the acceptance mode is where I am headed. Its scary and honestly, pisses me off. Maybe I have to go though those emotions? idk. I am done fighting and pushing. I know that.
I watched him sleeping last night, and thought..."its over, our sex life is over" and it may be.
I thought about the asexual. It would explain a lot.
And you're right, he is happy with our sex life. He understands it hurts me to not have that with him, but he feels he can't do anything differently.
And yes, its very painful to accept this is how life will be with him. I desire to me wanted, needed and loved in a way that.. I just want things to be different, and I am sadly realizing that's most likely not going to happen.
NO!

If your husband is actually asexual, that does not mean your sex life is over. Your husband is "happy" with the sex life in your marriage which means he is capable of enjoying it.

If you learn to love and accept him the way it is, you have to learn how to change your perspective and approach to sex in the marriage. You may need to insist on a schedule. You may need to insist that he is aware that sex is important for you and be respectful to that. You may need to realize that sex will be initiated just for you. Hopefully if you embrace that, you will begin to discover new ways your husband is able to respond to you sexually if you just allow him to be himself and discovers the joy of pleasing you and letting go of any of his anxieties.

If you can do that, it WILL be worth the effort!
 

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I will share with you that I too have bought toys and later thrown them away for the exact same reason. I once talked to my wife about what types of toys she might enjoy and I then invested a lot of time doing research and found a few to buy. They sat unopened in the nightstand for a month. At some point I asked my wife when would be a good moment to try them, and she just got angry with me. I distinctly remember taking the unopened packages to the trash and just throwing them away. After that day, I decided that I would NOT buy her anymore toys and if she ever wants one she will have to buy it herself.

Since that day things have improved and we might still use a toy on a rare occasion. But there is now a significant difference. If I buy an adult novelty, I now buy it only because it is something "I want" to try regardless of if she is willing to use it together or not. Anything I buy, I do so by making her aware and allowing her to ask questions or show interest if she is inclined to do so. At no time to I require her to give something a try. Surprisingly she does ask and does show interest in a novelty here and there which turns into a rather positive thing. She finally opened up and told me which novelty she really liked and was upset that the one we had broke so easily.

So that is an example of what the process of using adult novelties might work in a relationship where there are sexual desire challenges.
When we bought toys, it was also a discussion. It was much easier for my husband to engage in the conversation, he just doesn't embarrass. And given my past, I met certainly do!! But I thought guys like this stuff and maybe it will help!
Well to be honest, I think I ended up liking it all a lot more then him.
Which to be honest, surprised me! For various different reasons,

I would talk to him about his lack of desire and my seemingly increased desire. Going through peri-menopause has given me some happy hormones, or I have just grown and healed to a point where I want more intimacy and see and feel the need for it. Its not been an over night growth, but I have grown, healed and I want a thriving relationship! So I suggested things he can do with me, that would make me feel more loved and satisfied. After a few years of trying to talk bout it, I got pissed. Tossed it all. Its hard for me to put myself out there, and if he can't meet me half way. **** it. Can I say that on here?
 

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NO!

If your husband is actually asexual, that does not mean your sex life is over. Your husband is "happy" with the sex life in your marriage which means he is capable of enjoying it.

If you learn to love and accept him the way it is, you have to learn how to change your perspective and approach to sex in the marriage. You may need to insist on a schedule. You may need to insist that he is aware that sex is important for you and be respectful to that. You may need to realize that sex will be initiated just for you. Hopefully if you embrace that, you will begin to discover new ways your husband is able to respond to you sexually if you just allow him to be himself and discovers the joy of pleasing you and letting go of any of his anxieties.

If you can do that, it WILL be worth the effort!
I think this is backward thinking, and has already been tried by her, and will only lead to disappointment.
Because the issue isn't only low drive for him, he is happy with how things are, so he has no interest in doing more just because Mary expresses desire for more. It's not only that he is asexual, it's that he is also being selfish...which is COMMON for low-drive partners (and many people, actually, and not only about sex).
 

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NO!

If your husband is actually asexual, that does not mean your sex life is over. Your husband is "happy" with the sex life in your marriage which means he is capable of enjoying it.

If you learn to love and accept him the way it is, you have to learn how to change your perspective and approach to sex in the marriage. You may need to insist on a schedule. You may need to insist that he is aware that sex is important for you and be respectful to that. You may need to realize that sex will be initiated just for you. Hopefully if you embrace that, you will begin to discover new ways your husband is able to respond to you sexually if you just allow him to be himself and discovers the joy of pleasing you and letting go of any of his anxieties.

If you can do that, it WILL be worth the effort!
I have honestly done each of those things, over and over!
I am a communicator. Even when tis uncomfortable.
I have sat down with him, with nothing else going on. Explained the physical and emotional needs that goes with a sexually relationship. I have sent him articles written by people who dialog much better than me.
I have sent him erotic memes, and dirty text messages while he's at work. I have asked for two nights a week to just snuggle, explore each other if we want, but sex doesn't have to be a factor, When twice a week didn't happen, I asked for once a week. That didn't happen either. I have talked till I cant think of a better way to approach this. I have cried and begged. More nights than not is me falling asleep crying. I am so lonely and with my husband right there!
I have explained how hard it is to be told no over and over. Once I resolved to not ask again, we went 4.5 months with no sex.
If he doesn't think he can get hard, thats that, for him. I have told him its not about "sex" its about being close with him, enjoying each other. I don't want sit each night on the couch, actually watching tv... each night! When Netflix and chill is always actually Netflix and chill, its a depressing!

And damn it, I would like a little romance before I am to get into bed! Especially waiting 4.5 months! lol but for real!
I just dont know hat else I can try. I have come at this from every direction I can. I am pretty good at reading people and I have no problem putting effort into a situation. This forum is pretty much my last ditch effort. Well, other than counseling!
 

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I will share with you that I too have bought toys and later thrown them away for the exact same reason. I once talked to my wife about what types of toys she might enjoy and I then invested a lot of time doing research and found a few to buy. They sat unopened in the nightstand for a month. At some point I asked my wife when would be a good moment to try them, and she just got angry with me. I distinctly remember taking the unopened packages to the trash and just throwing them away. After that day, I decided that I would NOT buy her anymore toys and if she ever wants one she will have to buy it herself.

Since that day things have improved and we might still use a toy on a rare occasion. But there is now a significant difference. If I buy an adult novelty, I now buy it only because it is something "I want" to try regardless of if she is willing to use it together or not. Anything I buy, I do so by making her aware and allowing her to ask questions or show interest if she is inclined to do so. At no time to I require her to give something a try. Surprisingly she does ask and does show interest in a novelty here and there which turns into a rather positive thing. She finally opened up and told me which novelty she really liked and was upset that the one we had broke so easily.

So that is an example of what the process of using adult novelties might work in a relationship where there are sexual desire challenges.
I guess I just cannot fathom how much effort you make to please your low-drive wife, when it sounds like she makes very little effort to meet your needs. THIS wouldn't work for me. You don't insist that she challenge herself to meet your needs, yet she insists that YOU challenge YOURSELF to meet HER needs...this is NOT equal nor a partnership.
 

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I have honestly done each of those things, over and over!
I am a communicator. Even when tis uncomfortable.
I have sat down with him, with nothing else going on. Explained the physical and emotional needs that goes with a sexually relationship. I have sent him articles written by people who dialog much better than me.
I have sent him erotic memes, and dirty text messages while he's at work. I have asked for two nights a week to just snuggle, explore each other if we want, but sex doesn't have to be a factor, When twice a week didn't happen, I asked for once a week. That didn't happen either. I have talked till I cant think of a better way to approach this. I have cried and begged. More nights than not is me falling asleep crying. I am so lonely and with my husband right there!
I have explained how hard it is to be told no over and over. Once I resolved to not ask again, we went 4.5 months with no sex.
If he doesn't think he can get hard, thats that, for him. I have told him its not about "sex" its about being close with him, enjoying each other. I don't want sit each night on the couch, actually watching tv... each night! When Netflix and chill is always actually Netflix and chill, its a depressing!

And damn it, I would like a little romance before I am to get into bed! Especially waiting 4.5 months! lol but for real!
I just dont know hat else I can try. I have come at this from every direction I can. I am pretty good at reading people and I have no problem putting effort into a situation. This forum is pretty much my last ditch effort. Well, other than counseling!
And THIS is why I mentioned that you might need to move into acceptance of what you are really going to get with him, because you HAVE already done SO MUCH!!! I don't think there is anything that anyone on this forum could recommend to you that you haven't already tried, and your husband remains unmoved and uninterested in meeting your needs.

The sooner that you face the reality of that, the sooner you can focus on finding solutions to THAT issue, and how to get your needs met...because you DESERVE that!!!

(((((((((HUGS)))))))))

I'm thinking of you!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #88
I guess I just cannot fathom how much effort you make to please your low-drive wife, when it sounds like she makes very little effort to meet your needs. THIS wouldn't work for me. You don't insist that she challenge herself to meet your needs, yet she insists that YOU challenge YOURSELF to meet HER needs...this is NOT equal nor a partnership.
I can look back at over decades of struggling and I can see clearly. Your perspective is one that is not correct (in my opinion) and would lead a relationship to fail.

In my opinion the root of almost all problems in marriages is a combined issue of each having "low self esteem" that prevents each person from just being themself. That issue then sexually manifests itself in the most bizarre ways you can't even imagine.

NO ONE has to change! The exact opposite occurs. BOTH have to learn how to love themselves and then share that with each other while feeling loved and accepted for just being themself.

THAT is an almost freaking impossible thing to do. Because low self esteem manifests itself in so many unnatural ways, one has to confront how unnatural things have become in order to get down to the root of the problem:

Low self esteem and how to help each other improve it.

"Our relationship is sexually incompatible" = no it is not because you are both suffering from low self esteem and that has made sex impossible because you can't just be yourself because you don't love yourself.

"This is an HD and LD mismatch" = no it is not! It is actually perfectly balanced. Step way the f*** back and look at the big picture. The "LD Person" will actually appear to be HD in all the other aspects of life for which it is the "HD spouse" that is LD. The ways in which this is awkwardly skewed is often driven by low self esteem.

I can now see it everywhere I look.
 

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I think this is backward thinking, and has already been tried by her, and will only lead to disappointment.
Because the issue isn't only low drive for him, he is happy with how things are, so he has no interest in doing more just because Mary expresses desire for more. It's not only that he is asexual, it's that he is also being selfish...which is COMMON for low-drive partners (and many people, actually, and not only about sex).
This 👆
I struggle with, is he being selfish and a jerk! or... am I too demanding and think life should be romance and heads in the clouds?

Hes very happy with how things are, I know he loves me, but I really dont think he's in love with me, like I am him. That doest really hurt my feelings, because I think he would be, if he could be. I don't think he knows how to be that connected with anyone. Even me,
 

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I can look back at over decades of struggling and I can see clearly. Your perspective is one that is not correct (in my opinion) and would lead a relationship to fail.

In my opinion the root of almost all problems in marriages is a combined issue of each having "low self esteem" that prevents each person from just being themself. That issue then sexually manifests itself in the most bizarre ways you can't even imagine.

NO ONE has to change! The exact opposite occurs. BOTH have to learn how to love themselves and then share that with each other while feeling loved and accepted for just being themself.

THAT is an almost freaking impossible thing to do. Because low self esteem manifests itself in so many unnatural ways, one has to confront how unnatural things have become in order to get down to the root of the problem:

Low self esteem and how to help each other improve it.

"Our relationship is sexually incompatible" = no it is not because you are both suffering from low self esteem and that has made sex impossible because you can't just be yourself because you don't love yourself.

"This is an HD and LD mismatch" = no it is not! It is actually perfectly balanced. Step way the f*** back and look at the big picture. The "LD Person" will actually appear to be HD in all the other aspects of life for which it is the "HD spouse" that is LD. The ways in which this is awkwardly skewed is often driven by low self esteem.

I can now see it everywhere I look.
As much as I respect your opinions and ways of seeing things, I think you could not be any more wrong about how that works...and I think that most of the HD/LD relationships that people have posted about on TAM alone prove your belief to not work almost EVER.

YES, that's the ideal...GREAT! But your way of seeing the issue doesn't take into account when one partner has NO interest in meeting the needs of the other partner. Are YOU getting the sex you want from your wife by behaving that way to her...?? Maybe you are getting sex you enjoy, but I don't think it really meets the needs you have sexually.

Many LD people are JUST LOW DRIVE - NOT because of self-esteem issues or any other reason than they just don't have a strong drive for sexual gratification. In fact, many people with high self-esteem don't care to meet any of the needs of their partners, because they feel like they can do what they want.

So bringing self-esteem into it is like apples and oranges to me. Maybe you can describe this better, if I'm not understanding what you meant...?
 

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As much as I respect your opinions and ways of seeing things, I think you could not be any more wrong about how that works...and I think that most of the HD/LD relationships that people have posted about on TAM alone prove your belief to not work almost EVER.

YES, that's the ideal...GREAT! But your way of seeing the issue doesn't take into account when one partner has NO interest in meeting the needs of the other partner. Are YOU getting the sex you want from your wife by behaving that way to her...?? Maybe you are getting sex you enjoy, but I don't think it really meets the needs you have sexually.

Many LD people are JUST LOW DRIVE - NOT because of self-esteem issues or any other reason than they just don't have a strong drive for sexual gratification. In fact, many people with high self-esteem don't care to meet any of the needs of their partners, because they feel like they can do what they want.

So bringing self-esteem into it is like apples and oranges to me. Maybe you can describe this better, if I'm not understanding what you meant...?
I agree with some of this, and disagree with some.

I do think a lot of my husbands issues are low self esteem. I know me having a low self esteem has cause a whole host of issues with me personally. I'm better than I was, but hopefully not as good as I will be!

I think for my hubby, it is just easier not to try. I think he has low self esteem, maybe some ADD issues. and I am sure I have aided in making him feel bad about himself over the years. I am a very direct person If the flame is burning you, stop touching it, Done!
He is more a "lets take some time to put this new thought into play".
I am a "see a need, fit a need... geter done, person. I'm very A type personality. My husband says I am an A personality and hes happy to be a B- personality. Its a difficult combo.

But there are those who will take advantage of a higher drive and not care about their partner. Even though my husband has the lower, I think he is so focused on "performing" that he doest give me enough attention. It becomes whatever it needs to be for him. Like a job. Its just not exciting. There is little to no foreplay. He can go months with little touching, I dont see romance or intimacy. Then hit the sheets because he's horny this quarter? We can be the greatest of friends, but this to me is selfish and uncaring about me.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
YES, that's the ideal...GREAT! But your way of seeing the issue doesn't take into account when one partner has NO interest in meeting the needs of the other partner. Are YOU getting the sex you want from your wife by behaving that way to her...?? Maybe you are getting sex you enjoy, but I don't think it really meets the needs you have sexually.
Can I have sex with my wife anytime I want at this point? YES

Does it meet my needs sexually? YES, YES, YES, and THEN SOME!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I meet her needs sexually? She has complimented me on pushing her over the years to not give up and that otherwise she would have really missed out on so much pleasure.

Does she now show signs of desire? YES, and she now reads books on how to understand and improve her own desire because she has learned to enjoy nurturing that.

What was the underlying source of our issues? Low self esteem.

Why can low self esteem make someone HD? Because sex is incorrectly used as a way to validate being loved. Instead one should love themself and choose to share that with a spouse.

Why can low self esteem make someone LD? Because this prevents a true emotional connection to be made during sex (because a this person does NOT feel comfortable being truly seen).
 

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Can I have sex with my wife anytime I want at this point? YES

Does it meet my needs sexually? YES, YES, YES, and THEN SOME!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I meet her needs sexually? She has complimented me on pushing her over the years to not give up and that otherwise she would have really missed out on so much pleasure.

Does she now show signs of desire? YES, and she now reads books on how to understand and improve her own desire because she has learned to enjoy nurturing that.

What was the underlying source of our issues? Low self esteem.

Why can low self esteem make someone HD? Because sex is incorrectly used as a way to validate being loved. Instead one should love themself and choose to share that with a spouse.

Why can low self esteem make someone LD? Because this prevents a true emotional connection to be made during sex (because a this person does NOT feel comfortable being truly seen).
These are great responses, and I'm happy that it worked for you!!!

BUT...I still don't think that self-esteem is the main driver behind HD/LD urges. It was for YOU guys, and possibly many others! But not for most, or even many...I don't believe.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
These are great responses, and I'm happy that it worked for you!!!

BUT...I still don't think that self-esteem is the main driver behind HD/LD urges. It was for YOU guys, and possibly many others! But not for most, or even many...I don't believe.
When I read "Come as You Are" a long time ago, I wasn't at the same place I was today. Over half the book was about self esteem and how it is connected to sexuality. Now I can see it a bit more clearly.

 

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It can be as simple as everybody brings themselves as individuals to an encounter with an SO, ready to mix together to have an open, free, and intimate time together.

Each is responsible for themselves to orgasm, using but not putting that responsibility on the their partner.

Each contribute good, loving, hot, unafraid to laugh or scream in pleasure to create the particular sexual food for both, for that encounter.

And each sexual meal created during different intimate times is what keeps couples' appetites sated.

When many things are tried it's a given not all will work, those speed bumps are to be humored away, life goes on, the next will be better, and so forth.

Practice and openness create a winning relationship guaranteed.
 

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When I read "Come as You Are" a long time ago, I wasn't at the same place I was today. Over half the book was about self esteem and how it is connected to sexuality. Now I can see it a bit more clearly.

Well, self-esteem has nothing to do with MY high drive, nor anything to do with my husband's low drive...in fact, he has great self-esteem, and I sometimes believe that's why he doesn't care about MY needs, because he feels entitled to only having things the way HE thinks they need to be.

Self-esteem can contribute to how people express their sexuality drives, but I don't think they control them as much for most people as they did for you and your wife.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
I also wanted to add...it is MY belief that a relationship where one or both partners are not able to have their needs met SHOULD fail.
Here are some questions for you... Why are people so afraid to allow their relationships to fail? Why does that feel so unnatural?

How can FAILURE be embraced in such a way that it helps that exact same relationship heal and become a success?

Why does it mostly take someone building up their self confidence before they will finally allow things to fail?
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Well, self-esteem has nothing to do with MY high drive, nor anything to do with my husband's low drive...in fact, he has great self-esteem, and I sometimes believe that's why he doesn't care about MY needs, because he feels entitled to only having things the way HE thinks they need to be.

Self-esteem can contribute to how people express their sexuality drives, but I don't think they control them as much for most people as they did for you and your wife.
I boldedthe two parts of this response where I can see clearly how your self esteem and sexuality are directly tied in a way that makes you contradict yourself.

Why on earth would you have a High Desire sexually for someone you believe that does not care about you? Would you think that perhaps you come across as needy? Is a needy person sexually desirable in your opinion? Does a needy person generally have a high degree of self confidence?
 

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I boldedthe two parts of this response where I can see clearly how your self esteem and sexuality are directly tied in a way that makes you contradict yourself.

Why on earth would you have a High Desire sexually for someone you believe that does not care about you? Would you think that perhaps you come across as needy? Is a needy person sexually desirable in your opinion? Does a needy person generally have a high degree of self confidence?
Interesting, because the truth is, I have NO drive whatsoever for him anymore...once I realized and accepted that he didn't CARE about meeting my needs at all, my desire for him EVAPORATED. I have NO interest in trying to find out what he sexual drive issues are, I don't trust him to care about me. If he came to me for sex now, the answer would be, "NOPE. I won't give you sex whenever YOU want it. Since I am not an equal partner in your sex life, and I don't trust that you actually CARE about my needs, I have NO interest in sex with you."

He MIGHT come to me for sex at some point, someday, but most likely NOT - I think he's enjoying having things go exactly how he wants them to go, and not having to consider me at all.

So in fact, his attitude towards me has created the opposite of "NEEDY" - I don't NEED or rely on him at all sexually.
 
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