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The MGTOW movement. Do you really know anyone? More for the daters

109K views 1K replies 69 participants last post by  oldshirt 
#1 ·
For anyone not in the know, that means "men going their own way". Probably some other terms used. This seems to be promoted on youtube, and it is interesting to me just because that is what I have done. I am curious if you guys 'actually' know someone doing this? As I follow some of this stuff, the comments would indicate a bunch of betas feeding into this while still begging for phone numbers.

I can 100% appreciate the reasons behind this stuff such as how men as father figures is now totally disregarded in the legal system, and they are just financial resources. However, I suspect many are not MGTOW by choice. I have yet to even meet another one!

I will admit though, the ones online all seem the same.....they have been terribly burned and no longer willing even test the water.

I think the most entertaining part of this for me is all this "training" I see. How to date, how to talk to a girl, how to approach, what to say, how to hold your arms, your feet, your etc, etc, the list just keeps going! The best is how to learn to be an "alpha male".......Complete with the Brad starter kit! News flash, some people cannot be changed.
 
#174 · (Edited)
Damn! I just watched that vid and then saw that comment! It really doesn't surprise me though! What is even more sick is that guy's story likely will never be told or remembered and the sick judge that ruined his life will have zero remorse. It is like a broken record! What is super pathetic is it really doesn't take much common sense thinking to find ways to 'fix' the issues, but no one wants to hear it. A woman should never be granted alimony once she remarries!
 
#176 ·
Yet STILL, women today cannot grasp the situation, convinced they become victims. Anyone care to look up the statistics on how many men are in prison for child support and alimony defaults? How about women? When that changes, I might be willing to reengage life. Until then, I will remain in the neutral zone. Willing to slap asses, but a ring ain't happen'n.....
 
#179 ·
MGTOW isn't just about avoiding relationships...

The philosophy is also about people saying "**** this social system, I'm doing what i please, society be damned".

Fun fact, i have been paying 20 dollars a month as a paid member of a MGTOW forum for many years now, and yet i am married and am in three long term relationships.

Some MGTOW types are whiners. Some are just done with ****.

Some, like me, feel zero need to confirm to society.

You really can't paint an entire group with the same brush. That almost never works.
 
#180 ·
MGTOW isn't just about avoiding relationships...

The philosophy is also about people saying "**** this social system, I'm doing what i please, society be damned".

Fun fact, i have been paying 20 dollars a month as a paid member of a MGTOW forum for many years now, and yet i am married and am in three long term relationships.

Some MGTOW types are whiners. Some are just done with ****.

Some, like me, feel zero need to confirm to society.

You really can't paint an entire group with the same brush. That almost never works.
Again I ask, what does any of that do with some incel?
 
#191 ·
I find it ridiculous that society insists that you "forgive and make peace".... So sorry not sorry that I don't have that gear. It doesn't mean I want to kill them, but the word forgive ain't gunna fit. My ex decided her way to raise our kids was better and because she had next to no structure, they liked that better. I got tired of them asking when it was time to go to moms, mom lets us do this, etc. Then I had to give some manly discipline to my oldest because either I control it or the law will. Mom did not like that and said I could not see them for a while. I told her not to worry about it. Now I just send a check. Kids "miss" me but I assure you I can bite on a bullet until I break a tooth. They can all suck it. You don't get this dad "your way"......This ain't Burger King.

But to answer a reply of my previous comment above, what I was referring to is this. Women today (yes, yes, not all, the rare ones hover only on this site) have way more power than they ever have. They can make their own choices, income, hell they can go get a baby put in them with a needle! The first and ONLY thing they want from a man primarily is money. You can slice this up all you want, but it is what it is. You can call it "success", you can call it "driven", you can call it "compatible" but it is amazing how money fixes everything.

So what generally happens is men are supposed to "work hard" which really just means make a bunch of money. BUT, if you take too much time doing just that, she still won't be happy because she needs all your time too. So you work, you give, she now has but still not happy so she finds a play toy, takes your money, and hops aboard Chad for a while.

Did this actually happen to me? Nope, but I have seen it again and again. My last one just ended because I resisted spending all of my money on her and she did not like that one bit so she hopped aboard a Chad that would, and he sure did! Bought her the car, new house, 2 kids, and it will all come crashing down in, oh, another 5yrs or so. About the time she no longer needs him to watch the kids. What is funny is I told my friends how it would all shake out and they are shocked that I have been right about everything. They said it would not last a year, and I said she will be knocked up about, oh, NOW..... I can only imagine how vile that home will get before it explodes. They will hide it for years, smile for cameras, and play the game. To say I would "forgive" her? Let me just be very honest, if her car was on fire, I would wave and keep on driving, and I am dead serious about that. She is a pukey person that only thinks of herself.

And I know I am right when her own family, grandmother, and cousins sided with ME. Her cousin said "she just isn't a good person".....I told her "you could have saved me YEARS by telling me that a lot sooner girl"....
 
#198 ·
This thread is so depressing. The OP has never been married and has been in two LTRs - both of which ended badly. He has even written off his children
Kids "miss" me but I assure you I can bite on a bullet until I break a tooth. They can all suck it. You don't get this dad "your way"......This ain't Burger King.
There is a whole lot I can say about this. But, I don't want to get banned. I'll just leave it at WTF.

Then we have a guy recently divorced whose gf has been through hell and back with him because of sticking by him through said nasty divorce and he's ready to give up on her because she wasn't ready to put out on the night she played chauffeur to his family's party. Let's not forget - his kids are ok; but hers are KIDS!!! and they are taking up time that she should be spending on him.

It just might be best if men with this attitude do the women of the world a favor and become Trappist monks.

Disgusting.
 
#192 ·
Oh, I think I only partially answered the question of me. The reality is the women that end up in the divorce cycle due to jumping on a Chad, they eventually end up in the dating pool, and the damnedest thing, they never seem to mention what they did! I have not once heard a women say they screwed things up. They actually never do! The man is 100% at fault! He cheated or something.

But in ALL fairness to the ladies that think I am an azz, I did have a message on my phone from a friend's doctor office. Her assistant called about stuff that was not her biz but I mentioned to my friend she was quite snooty in the message. I was told who she was, was 35, married a doctor I know, and he divorced her to snag a 20 something so now she is a bitter bich. And is history repeats, she will ONLY be chasing the doctors or at least comparable income and never actually settle into a good life. Obviously she got screwed but for all we know, she became a snooty bich after holding her nose so high and the doctor checked her. I dunno but I will give her some cred. I don't know the full story but I know the doctor and highly likely he was on the prowl.
 
#193 ·
Ugh, I’m just down on the whole relationship thing. So many women change for the worse during the phases of a relationship. I thought (and still think) LAT is the way to go, but you still have to pick the right person. I’ve been in a LAT situation for 14 months. Even not living together and only seeing each other 1-2 times a week doesn’t seem to be working. A few weeks ago we went out to my cousins 50th bday party. Food, drinks, live band, dancing, you get the picture. Perfect night until she drops me off at 1030 and wants to get home because she’s “tired”. They’re all the same. This time, I just said “go, get home safely” and gave her a soft next for a few days. Next time I go over there she answered the door naked. So she got the picture. But I already got a glimpse of what my future with this woman holds. It’s no different from all the rest. So I spend a week with my kids this week on vacation. Had a great time. Started bonding with my daughter. Heading back home realizing that being alone is better. No expectations and no disappointment. It was actually kind of cool. Of course she wants to see me tomorrow because she “misses me”. But she has her kids again, like always, 85% of the time. I’m thinking I might be busy tomorrow. Getting tired of this crap. Dating single moms is a farce. The kids win out 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Kids of single moms are born to be cockblockers.
 
#199 ·
@RebuildingMe, just to recap…

You don’t want to be married again.

You don’t want to be bothered with an actual relationship, where a woman (not your wife) gets tired or prioritizes her dependent children. (Children as cockblockers - I’m guessing you haven’t shared this amazing insight with the judge sitting in on your trial? 🙄)

Yet, you probably also don’t want to bear the expense and shame of going to a prostitute.

You sound like a two year old who wants his way about everything all the time.

Personally, I vote prostitute - if for nothing else than to free this poor woman from your seething contempt.

But even better would be for you to spend some time alone, and spare the female population all your bitter, entitled awesomeness.
 
#218 ·
@RebuildingMe, just to recap…

You don’t want to be married again.


No, not ever.

You don’t want to be bothered with an actual relationship, where a woman (not your wife) gets tired or prioritizes her dependent children. (Children as cockblockers - I’m guessing you haven’t shared this amazing insight with the judge sitting in on your trial? 🙄)

Yes, kids are cockblockers. I know, I have my own. She doesn’t need to prioritize teenagers. Her kids are not toddlers. The helicopter mom crap needs to end. As to your other part, not sure what any of this has to do with my trial. So I can’t answer that.

Yet, you probably also don’t want to bear the expense and shame of going to a prostitute.

Nope, I’m not into prostitution, but I wouldn’t be shameful about it if I was.

You sound like a two year old who wants his way about everything all the time.

Thanks, but I’m 50 and haven’t been 2 in 48 years now.

Personally, I vote prostitute - if for nothing else than to free this poor woman from your seething contempt.

LOL, “seething contempt” because we hadn’t seen each other in a week and I thought her dropping me off and heading home at 1030pm was a weak move? I called her out on her crap also.

But even better would be for you to spend some time alone, and spare the female population all your bitter, entitled awesomeness.

I already said I enjoy my alone time and not being with a female 7 days a week, but not for the reasons you cite. I’d like to keep my ex spouse number at TWO, not THREE. So there’s that.
 
#201 ·
Or just maybe I’m thinking out loud and venting a bit on this forum? Is that not allowed? I never said I was good in relationships. That’s probably one of the reasons I’m divorced times two.

@Lila I did tell her how I felt after the birthday party. We have a very adult conversation.The mismatched drives came up. She chalked it up to the driving factor and how little we see each other. She said things would be different when I had a house closer by. Well, that’s going to be the case soon so I’ll wait and see what happens.

Agree with you on the passive-aggressive thing. I see that my potential reaction for today would be inappropriate. She wishes her ex would take her kids more. She’s admitted that she jealous about how I handle my kids and wishes she had an ex that gave her more time. He doesn’t want and more time that 4 days a month. He treats his child support payments as paid child care, so he can work and date. It’s not the situation she wants, but it is her reality. She has said before that she would give back the child support in a heartbeat if her ex would spend time with the kids. Even mentioned it to him but he likes this current arrangement.
 
#202 · (Edited)
I understand. Maybe a [vent] tag is needed for posts.

Something I'm learning is that just because you're not good at relationships doesn't mean you can't get better. We may not see eye to eye on a lot but I do want you to find happiness and succeed in relationships (however you define that). I want that for most people on this forum.

I hope you find it in you to move past the whole child custody thing this week and try to find somtime to.connect with her. Maybe a lunch date, a gym date, or even grocery shopping trip is in order.
 
#206 ·
On the other side of things, how many guys here have gotten a text from a woman and she straight up says hey I'm at dinner (with a mark) but I'll be over after, want me to bring you anything, I'll have him pay for it. Or the "I don't usually do "fill in the blank" along with I've never done this before. When you see and hear those things over and over again across various ages, creeds, and economic levels it can't help but shape your opinion. An opinion that is just realistic, not hateful although these days anything short of over the top flattery is considered hate.

There is the notion that if you don't subscribe to the love conquers all trope that you are negative and something is wrong with you.
 
#212 ·
I just saw actual footage in a divorce court last night! The wife was whining about how many yrs of alimony and the amounts. Basically she was getting about $10K/mo for alimony and child support for one kid. Even the judge mentioned it was basically leaving the man penniless. The lawyers said "oh he is getting the house, he can sell it"...To which the other party mentioned there was zero equity in the house. They had just built it.

They agreed on 7yrs and the man was just defeated and agreed to the timeline. Basically this guy gets to pay a stiff mortgage, pay to have hid kid in the house, and pay the ex 10 grand/mo for the next 7. The guy asked for 4yrs and the woman threw a fit. The kid had to sit through it all and just wanted it over.

Do YOU think you could find a way to function in life with a guaranteed 10k/mo without even having to work? All while the man will slave away knowing he will be in prison if he fails to pay!

Even the judge was resistant to the agreement as it did not sound fair. That is precisely the goal of divorce court! Very luckily, I am not in a "common law" state!
 
#222 ·
I just saw actual footage in a divorce court last night! The wife was whining about how many yrs of alimony and the amounts. Basically she was getting about $10K/mo for alimony and child support for one kid. Even the judge mentioned it was basically leaving the man penniless. The lawyers said "oh he is getting the house, he can sell it"...To which the other party mentioned there was zero equity in the house. They had just built it.

They agreed on 7yrs and the man was just defeated and agreed to the timeline. Basically this guy gets to pay a stiff mortgage, pay to have hid kid in the house, and pay the ex 10 grand/mo for the next 7. The guy asked for 4yrs and the woman threw a fit. The kid had to sit through it all and just wanted it over.

Do YOU think you could find a way to function in life with a guaranteed 10k/mo without even having to work? All while the man will slave away knowing he will be in prison if he fails to pay!

Even the judge was resistant to the agreement as it did not sound fair. That is precisely the goal of divorce court! Very luckily, I am not in a "common law" state!
Do you really believe this is the norm? Not an exceptional case in any way?

I tend to agree that family courts are less favorable to men, but to try and make this example as the norm crosses over into hyperbole.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
#215 ·
One common theme I see from TAM women (not all, but many) is that they are divorced, have majority custody of their kids and have gotten/continue to get support payments from their exs. They NEVER complain about the court system, because it hooked them up. It hooked up their sisters and their girlfriends too. Worse, they put down the men that do complain about the rigged system. If I didn’t have the financing to fight, I’d be another broke dad with payments for the next decade financing my ex’s lifestyle. It’s better to not play the game. How many married men on TAM hate their marriage but won’t leave because they don’t want to lose one or both of their testicles? It’s sad to see but so common. If I have a bad night and want to vent about my gf not putting out, I’ll also get vilified for that I know. Because, as we know, all men are pigs and all we want is sex…:rolleyes:. Yes, we must all have broken pickers. We’re not pigs when we pay for their meals, hold their hands, help them with their car, houses, whatever. We only turn into pigs at night apparently. Right…got it. I’m still waiting for a female to start a thread about how they get screwed over in court during their divorce….anyone?
 
#219 ·
Hmm...I do believe we have discussed this, but just FYI...I didn't ask for alimony from either husband, I got court-ordered child support from my first husband that the state wouldn't collect because they "couldn't find him" (he had to answer a "do you live here" notice in order to be served to go BACK to court for non-payment...really??)...so they are grown, but he only paid me for 2 out of 13 years and continues to work under the table so they can't garnish his wages. He owes me $70k still, and I'm sure I'll never see any of it.

And I am the pig in my second marriage who my STBX called a "sex addict" because I wanted sex more than once a month. I filed for divorce on him, but I also am the only one paying for it (and he makes 3 times what I do). Which I am NOT complaining about - it's WORTH IT!!!!

I'd rather live in a tent by the ocean than have money and be in an unhappy marriage/relationship.

I don't quite fit into your girl box, I don't think...just remember that. Not EVERY woman is like what you have described...although many are. Just like many men are lying, bullying users (like my STBX)...but I prefer to take a more optimistic view of the men I will meet in the future...!!!!! ;)

Although...I've also never done any online dating, so maybe I'm blissfully unaware of the ugliness that's out there...?? Lol!
 
#216 ·
I will say this, I have been bashed badly here because I did not marry my first ex. Together a long time, 2 kids. Something about my intelligence that kept scaring the crap out of me with that word! Men should know you are literally being asked to dance on a tight rope! But since I am such an ass, I actually voluntarily pay MORE than I would be required to for my kids! Why? Because I know she is now raising them. I am VERY lucky she is not vengeful. She knows she did me wrong, we have never involved the courts, and she is more civil than most women.

Now my 2nd ex was up there on the hot/crazy matrix. She came off as perfect in every way and I actually thought I FINALLY found my partner for life. NOPE! The more I learned, the worse it got. She was in constant legal battles with her baby daddy and SHE was instigating it! Imagine how I felt. She didn't want him to see her, and was always worried about how much she would be getting from him, fearing he would get more visitation and reduce payments. She got slapped many times in the legal system and even I told her the dad has rights too. She did NOT want to hear that from me.

I was well and good with my 2nd ex in the first several months because I was obligating more time with her in hopes of a forever. But I finally started having to tell her " I have to get some work done". I could not go out 3 nights/week with all your friends, etc. Boy, she did not like that! And the more resentment she shared, the more I pulled back and started looking at what I was dealing with. I am so insanely picky that I probably will never find a forever anything, but this one was probably at 90%, and that was better than I had met in 25yrs so figured it was worth the fight. I was wrong.

They want wined and dined at some level, constantly! Hell, just read between the lines in marriage books. "Always work on your marriage"....IE, keep giving and giving. It is all part of my generation.

What is sickening is my parents have been together over 40yrs. I would ask my mom what dad is doing or where he is...she has no clue and not remotely worried about it! That was an eye opener that I was screwed. My parents are model partners that trust and can work independently. This is what I 'thought' a relationship was. It is not today. I literally had to block certain things on my social media from my 2nd ex after 3-4mo because she wanted to know why I was on FB in the middle of the day and who this person was. Apparently a guy can't take a break..... She needed to know what I was doing ALL the time. Hell I would even test her and walk out of the door and she would ask "where are you going?".....

You could all that with a Sigma INTJ personality and you have a disaster! Women today have high expectations, and a roster of plan B-Z if you stop fitting her mold. I am just insanely glad I am good at controlling my load and never knocked that up! GAWD, it would have got bad!
 
#217 · (Edited)
@DownButNotOut and @Al_Bundy - I said NOTHING about the court system or its workings. I said NOTHING about our legal system. I saId NOTHING about assigning blame or it "being all the man's fault." I DID suggest that men might be choosing women who are just bad people. How is that BLAMING men?

AND YES YOU ARE TARGETING ME WHEN YOU QUOTE MY TEXTS. I NEVER used the words "loser" "incel" or "disgusting." In fact, I was attempting to make as neutral a comment as possible.

You guys should reread what I said and how you responded. I honestly did not want to start WWIII here. I'm going to leave it at that. Apparently even suggesting a man's picker could be broken - and a woman's picker could be just as broken since I WAS NOT trying to insult the men here - I'll just bow out. Too much triggering going on.
 
#248 ·
I know you weren't trying to insult anyone. As far as mentioning the court/legal system, no you didn't mention it.

But since that is what is being discussed, mentioning a picker being broken, to them, meant you were saying its more a matter of that and not a matter of them being screwed over in court.

I didn't find anything insulting in what you said though.
 
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#232 ·
Al_Bundy: Your response to me was rude and out of line. Yes, people do make bad choices in the partner's they choose. That has NOTHING to do with people being shot for stealing food. Nothing at all. False equivalency. You are overreacting and being argumentative when I made it clear my intention was not to spark outrage. If you are angry at the court system, fine.

I am asking politely that you stop targeting me. Thank you.
 
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#234 ·
Been reading/watching this with some interest. I consider myself MGTOW - but maybe not as I see some describe. To me MGTOW isn't avoiding women - it's more not willing to make any life commitment to.

Responding now because of what I have been seeing and now tonight. Guy 2 houses down from me got married and bought house about 4 yrs ago. Just him and new wife. Then, wife preggo young (19?) daughter needed a place to stay so she moved in. Father "stepped up" and they got married - so he moved in and kid born. Covid... wife laid off. Her sister also and she broke up with her boyfriend she lived with, so she moved in. Did he have any say in any of this ? Lets be real... no. So now 6 people in... and guess what ? Wife daughter pregnant. He works full time blue collar type job. Other male part time... but young kid with an attitude... Now lots of arguing unhappy people. In 3 short yrs this guys life has gone from being optimistic with new wife and house to totally sucks.

This is his second marriage. Saw him pull in and before he even got in the house the yelling started - at him. I hollered and waved him over. Handed him a beverage and listened... at least 20 minutes... and then said my turn. Dude... walk away. Stop paying all bills and the mortgage. You've got a month to 6 weeks before your credit gets hit - file for divorce, find a place and bolt. BUT THEY ALL DEPEND ON ME !!! I CAN'T DO THAT ! Arg. So are you willing to accept this life for like the next 20 ? You think any of them are going to change and your life is going to get better ? Sink or save yourself.

He then asked me why a couple years ago I had a "regular" woman over (odd way to put it to me) and just some others here and there since, and what happened. I told him something similar to what has happened to you - got married again and a couple yrs into she took over my life and it sucked. The "regular" was someone after and it was starting to happen again. And there is no way. I'm not going there, doing again.

He asked me about companionship. Do I miss it. Umm... not much. Because my experience is the inner feeling of companionship has been a lot less of the time than the effort and work - and pain - to achieve. He laughed and then nodded knowingly. I told him the brutal truth. My life pursing that is over. I love women... love how they look, laugh, feel, and the way I feel with one I want to be with. But at this point in my life I categorize them as an entertainment expense. My only interest is for fun.

Go ahead and blast me. I'm pretty blast proof these days and just don't give a **** what women or other men think of me. Somehow I seem to have many friends and being "lonely" just hasn't seemed to be any problem.
 
#239 ·
...and flowing laws written by male-dominated legislators.

Obvious facts have no place in a zealot's argument
 
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#263 ·
Interesting little tidbit on the news page I look at some in the money advice part.
I’m 57 and my new husband is 80. I’m not on the deed of his house. Instead, he gave me a credit card with a $1,000 spending limit
It goes on to say how he has 3 kids (1 disabled) and she is questioning his love and commitment to her as he hasn't arranged to take care of her financially as she wants/feels she deserves upon his death. Nice. And here some are questioning why some men would avoid just this thing...
 
#268 ·
So, I've read 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Either I am led to believe that 70% of men are scumbags or women marry men and quickly grow tired of them for whatever reason. Now, I've met some men that fall in this 70% category and I don't get the scumbag feel. It seems like their wife just grew tired of them. I hear of the 'I'm not happy' quite a bit when digging further. Once I read of the "walkway wife syndrome", "7 year itch" it all kind of clicked into place.

Fellas, the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. It's a hard lesson to learn except through experience.
 
#269 ·
So, I've read 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Either I am led to believe that 70% of men are scumbags or women marry men and quickly grow tired of them for whatever reason.
Its a mixture obviously. My X simply didn't want to limit herself to the variety of men she could have sex with for the rest of her life.
 
#270 ·
Guess I don't have issue with women chiming in with their views, as this is only an inet discussion. But I am curious how a woman could look at the subject objectively and say the system is 'not' rigged in their favor? It is really a full on epidemic with fatherless homes. The system was designed to just make fathers into financial resources for a mother. No one ever even assessed the reality that horrible humans are now being fostered due to a lack of male role models.

At no point EVER, should a system start anywhere other than 50/50 split custody! 2 parties made the child, so both parties should have equal responsibility. But that is obviously NOT the norm.
 
#271 ·
Guess I don't have issue with women chiming in with their views, as this is only an inet discussion.
Neither do I. But when the veiled, or not so veiled insults come out, all bets are off.

I would never even think of telling a woman, or insinuating, that she bears responsibility for errors in judgement if she had been treated horribly by a man. Why would I? Not only is that blaming the victim, but I'm in the same shoes.
 
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