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Also, remember, all the voters for Hillary Clinton, which OUTNUMBERS the one for Trump by at least 2M, should be taken into account as well if you are not going to ignore the rule of law.
Which rule of law? The electoral college?

Total popular vote means absolutely nothing. It means as much as which team had the most pitches in the World Series, or which team ran the most yards in the Super Bowl. It means as much as which team used the fewest tires in the Indy 500. If the Indy 500 winner was based on tire usage, the teams would have an entirely different strategy and the outcome of the race would be completely different (speed, order of finish, when they take pit stops, etc). And so it is with the Presidential election. If popular vote meant anything at all, the candidates would run completely different campaigns. There is no way to predict who in past elections would have won under different rules.
 

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I was stating my position, notice the paragraph break and won't play the straw man game as you seem to believe that anyone who voted for Hillary is fine with having their tax dollars pissed away and that somehow validates this process.
Trump is the one pissing away our tax dollars.

1. Misusing money meant to help Ukraine defend against Russia. Ukraine is our buffer.
2. Using tax dollars to compensate farmers for the lost exports overseas due to Trump's tariff wars. Sounds rather socialist to me.
3. Trump wants to use taxpayers' funds to defend the federal government in eminent domain cases to build his wall against Mexico. Once again, that's pretty socialist to treat private lands as if they are for public use.

What has (Mrs.) Clinton wasted taxpayers' money.

You do realize that when Hannity, Carlson & Co. talk about HC as if she were president that they have it wrong. She has never been POTUS.
 

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I think it is thoroughly possible that Putin is setting up an oligarchy system in the US. This would explain why certain members of Congress support defending Trump's actions regarding Russia. There's a post of gold out there somewhere for them.

Think about how Manafort made $75M advising Russia sympathetic Ukrainians. Then he worked for Trump for free.

Giuliagni works for Trump for free but he gets paid by Ukraine / Russian operatives.

Senator Ron Johnson had a meeting with the Russians on Independence Day in 2017. Nowadays, he doesn't mind looking like an idiot talking about the deep and contradicting himself to ensure he said it the way Putin wants him to.
 

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So very true.
The famous "I did not have sex with that woman".

More like if Trump said "I did not talk to any foreign leaders at anytime".

Then there would be a close comparison.

Hehehe.
Trump never said it under oath to Congress. Not a close comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
Trump never said it under oath to Congress. Not a close comparison.
But cannot a man be held to account for whatever incitable verbiage exits from his mouth or from his Tweets?

Oh, never mind! We're talking about Donald Trump!
 

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What has (Mrs.) Clinton wasted taxpayers' money.

You do realize that when Hannity, Carlson & Co. talk about HC as if she were president that they have it wrong. She has never been POTUS.
I don't watch/listen to them, and you seem to be the only one talking about HRC. In regards to her, I'm just worried about who she is going to OFF this week other than that she has been made irrelevant by the last election.

All of this distress over "Trump investigating a political opponent", I don't recall this cry to arms when Obama did exactly that to Trump. More hypocrisy, but that is the norm more than the exception.
 

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Dems know that Biden is corrupt. You are correct in what you say below - and this is why it will be disasterous for this to go to trial. Not sure what the hell the Dems are thinking here?? It just reminds me of a "Hail Mary" pass play - Dems know that they are defeated by what Trump has accomplished during his presidency - so this impeachment thing is all they have left - else they die.

There is no such crime as "Obstructing Congress". Trump challenged subpoenas in court, which is the correct venue when there is a disagreement with the co-equal branch of government. Yet Pelosi, Schiff, and Nadler couldn't wait for the legal process to work through the courts (which would have been pretty swift), so they simply created a new misdeed to attach to Trump and called it "obstruction of Congress".

Virtually every President, maybe even every single President, has asserted Executive Privilege to keep some things private from Congress. And rightly so. So his assertion of such privilege in preventing some of his staff from testifying was not any form of obstruction. Not until a court orders that they must testify. At that point it would be contempt of court or contempt of congress to refuse to testify, which are actual defined crimes. Though contempt of Congress doesn't usually hold any particular penalty as we have seen with many previous administrations (Obama comes to mind...).

So there is the proof that Trump did not commit any obstruction crime.

As to the Bidens being germaine, hell yes they are! It was part of the phone call, right? Whether or not Trump was working from good intel about what had happened in the past, he was asking for US (the USA not himself) that Ukraine assist in an investigation. So it was a valid request, the kind which happens all the time all around the world between nations' leaders.

Let's imagine everything related to Bidens and Ukraine was squeaky clean, honest, with not even a potential for conflict of interests. A full rigorous investigation in Ukraine would have found nothing bad, and Trump would not have gained any potential ammunition against Biden. So why all the angst about Trump asking for, in part, an investigation involving Biden and Burisma? What does it matter whether or not there was corruption with the Bidens? Either it is ok for a President to ask another country's leader to assist in an investigation or it is not. And it is. It happens all the time. Unless you assert that a politician or a political candidate is off limits simply because if they are investigated it could disadvantage them if something bad is found. But then you must agree the entire investigation of Trump from the beginning was criminal for the same reasons!
 

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We can't because the Dem have yet to prove he did! LOL
Uh, Vlad just claimed that there was exculpatory evidence, and now claim you can’t provide it because of the Democrats.

Your logic is very wild. Merry Christmas, anyway.
 

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But cannot a man be held to account for whatever incitable verbiage exits from his mouth or from his Tweets?

Oh, never mind! We're talking about Donald Trump!
Almost every Trump supporter on this thread has admitted that they don’t care what Trump says or does, they will support him no matter what. So what’s the point in arguing about what he says or does?

I’d rather try to understand why the cultish appeal exists in the first place.
 

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You’re taking this way to seriously. I realize you’re extremely partisan but surely you know this was never about getting rid of Trump. Not one person has said they believe the Senate would toss Trump out.

So what does that mean? It means the whole impeachment has been a farce. Now Pelosi is trying to extend the show by simply refusing to send her absurd document to the Senate. Toilet paper is worth more than their feeble impeachment document. To use impeachment to beat a remarkably successful president in the next election has had the opposite effect.

Everyone I talk to believe the Biden’s were taking what amounts to bribes. They think him or anyone else should be investigated which evidently never happened. I’m actually more concerned about Biden’s senility. His son’s doping, stripper babes, illegitimate children and his remarkably poor judgement must be keeping him awake at night.

As far as obstruction of Congress goes, that’s for the courts to decide. Congress doesn’t order the president around. Executive privilege guarantees the branches remain equal.

Judicial watch is suing Shifty for illegal wiretapping. The Democrats were trying to save the next election but this ridiculous move has sunk them.
Actually, I think the GOP is playing checkers and the Democrats are playing chess here. I think it’s the long game.

Trump being impeached means he cannot be pardoned. There are many chargeable offences in the Mueller report, among others, just waiting for him to leave office - which he will, in 1 year or 5. And once the bootlicker Barr is gone, there will be nothing stopping charges from being laid, and Trump spending a long time in prison, or fleeing the country. Either way, the GOP will be branded (rightly) as the corrupt party.

I think that’s what this is really about. The GOP is focused on staying in power today, and trying to win the 2020 election. Pelosi and Schiff are thinking years out.
 

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Discussion Starter #134 (Edited)
Dems know that Biden is corrupt. You are correct in what you say below - and this is why it will be disasterous for this to go to trial. Not sure what the hell the Dems are thinking here?? It just reminds me of a "Hail Mary" pass play - Dems know that they are defeated by what Trump has accomplished during his presidency - so this impeachment thing is all they have left - else they die.
The GOP/Redhat mindset is that Biden is only corrupt because Faux News/Breitbart perpetually issues ongoing, false and far-fetched conspiratorial theory narratives saying that he is! All with a little pump-priming by the adoring GOP, as well as Cousin Vladimir!

Nothing more, and nothing less!
 

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Almost every Trump supporter on this thread has admitted that they don’t care what Trump says or does, they will support him no matter what. So what’s the point in arguing about what he says or does?

I’d rather try to understand why the cultish appeal exists in the first place.
Same reason those with TDS oppose him no matter what.
 

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Actually, I think the GOP is playing checkers and the Democrats are playing chess here. I think it’s the long game.

Trump being impeached means he cannot be pardoned. There are many chargeable offences in the Mueller report, among others, just waiting for him to leave office - which he will, in 1 year or 5. And once the bootlicker Barr is gone, there will be nothing stopping charges from being laid, and Trump spending a long time in prison, or fleeing the country. Either way, the GOP will be branded (rightly) as the corrupt party.

I think that’s what this is really about. The GOP is focused on staying in power today, and trying to win the 2020 election. Pelosi and Schiff are thinking years out.
An impeachment is not pardonable. A President cannot be prosecuted for his official actions under his Constitutional duties. Same with Congress and federal judges btw.

But nothing prevents prosecution after any official leaves office for criminal actions such as bribery etc. That is, any President (or Vice President) can be prosecuted after the fact if they were engaged in actual bribery. Or other serious crimes such as murder, arson, armed robbery, rape, etc.

All of those crimes are pardonable. For example, if Biden were found guilty of bribery, he could be pardoned by a President. If Trump were convicted of a crime, he could be pardoned by a future President. This is what happened with Nixon. President Ford pardoned Nixon of any crimes he may have committed. He did that to avoid the spectacle of a criminal trial because Nixon had already resigned in disgrace.

The potential penalties for conviction of impeachment include removal from office and being barred from holding future office. This is what is not pardonable.

There is no "win" gained in terms of whether Trump can be prosecuted for alleged crimes in the Mueller Report now that he has been impeached.
 

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I cannot envision a different strategy based on Mconnell and Graham already admitting they don't care about the evidence and will not remove him from office, no matter what their "vows" say.
They have said they see nothing rising to the level of impeachment in all of the evidence the Democrats have so far brought forward. So they DO care about the evidence, they just don't see it as having proved Trump did anything wrong. Therefore they will vote for acquittal.
 

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The GOP/Redhat mindset is that Biden is only corrupt because Faux News/Breitbart perpetually issues ongoing, false and far-fetched conspiratorial theory narratives saying that he is! All with a little pump-priming by the adoring GOP, as well as Cousin Vladimir!

Nothing more, and nothing less!
No, The willfully ignorant Democrats aren't interested in the billions in foreign Aid that went missing in the Ukraine while Joe was the point person.

And you would think that with all the new information out showing that noone in the Trump administartion were involved with the Russians you guys would have dropped it. But no keep pushing it to the Democrats blind voters and they will believe it.
 
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