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Trump has every right to ask for an investigation into the Bidens. Billions of dollars in aid money has gone missing from the Ukraine while he was the point person. He should have been calling for investigations and stopped all aid until the money was found.
It would be negligence if he didn't. I'm sure as hell curious about what was really going on. Seems every time Joe Biden was diddling with another country on "official government bidness" folks in his family wound up making money hand over fist.
 

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It would be negligence if he didn't. I'm sure as hell curious about what was really going on. Seems every time Joe Biden was diddling with another country on "official government bidness" folks in his family wound up making money hand over fist.
What other folks in the Biden family got sinecures?
 

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You obviously missed the point of Dershowitz's testimony. He said it does not matter, even if Bolton is correct, it is not a crime and it is not am impeachable offense. But really all the two of them can testify to is that Trump wanted to and discussed with holding the aid until Ukraine started both investigations. Since it never happened there is no foul.
As of Jan 23rd, the full funding still has not been released.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/false-claim-ukraine-got-aid-before-schedule/

I can discuss wanting to rob a bank as much as I want. If don't actually rob the bank there is no offense.
No, you can't. It's called Conspiracy and is indeed very much a crime:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal)

And since the full funding has still not been released, the bank has indeed been robbed. They just gave back most of the money.

And delaying it with the intention of committing a crime still goes against Congresses constitutional mandate, which is also a crime.

And either way, abuse of power may not be a crime, but it is impeachable, and was included in both Nixon and Clinton's impeachments:

Abuse of power was one of the articles of impeachment advanced against President Richard Nixon, who resigned before a full House vote on the charges. In approving the charge of abuse of power against Nixon, a House committee accused him of authorizing tax audits of political opponents on his “enemies list.”

Abuse of power was advanced as an article of impeachment against President Bill Clinton relating to his affair with a White House intern, but a majority of House members voted against including that charge. Clinton was eventually impeached on two other charges - perjury and obstruction of justice - but was not convicted by the Senate.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-charges-factbox/factbox-abuse-of-power-obstruction-the-charges-against-trump-explained-idUSKBN1ZK0GD

To quote Ken Starr on Clinton's impeachment and abuse of power:
The long-awaited report cited 11 possible grounds for impeachment in four categories: perjury, obstruction of justice, witness tampering and abuse of power.[2][6] These allegations all arose from President Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky.[7]

In the report's introduction, Starr asserted that Clinton had lied under oath during a sworn deposition on January 17, 1998, while he was a "defendant in a sexual harassment lawsuit" and "to a grand jury." He additionally alleged that Clinton had "attempted to influence the testimony of a grand jury witness who had direct knowledge of facts that would reveal the falsity of his deposition testimony; attempted to obstruct justice by facilitating a witness' plan to refuse to comply with a subpoena; attempted to obstruct justice by encouraging a witness to file an affidavit that the president knew would be false ... ; lied to potential grand jury witnesses, knowing that then they would repeat those lies before the grand jury; and engaged in a pattern on conduct that was inconsistent with his constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws."[6]

Starr included a detailed timeline of Lewinsky's various sexual encounters with Clinton during her White House internship. He concluded the report with a section entitled "Grounds," where he provided supporting evidence to each of the 11 grounds for potential impeachment of Clinton—including physical evidence such as the DNA test results of a semen stain on a dress owned by Lewinsky which matched Clinton's blood sample. Starr also alleged that Clinton had conversations with witnesses during his investigation which he ascribed as "witness-tampering and obstruction of justice by hiding evidence and giving misleading accounts to lawyers for Paula Jones."[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starr_Report

And now, that same person is arguing that abuse of power is not impeachable - when he argued quite the opposite when it was used against Clinton.

Just like Graham argued with Clinton that "it didn't even have to be a crime to be impeachable" when he's now saying the exact opposite about Trump.

If you believe the GOP narrative here, you need to understand that you are being lied to. This is not to say that the Democrats haven't also lied in the past, but if you knowingly support a lie, then you're somewhat complicit in that lie.
 

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Trump has every right to ask for an investigation into the Bidens. Billions of dollars in aid money has gone missing from the Ukraine while he was the point person. He should have been calling for investigations and stopped all aid until the money was found.

There evidence that the bank all this money went missing from is owned by the same guy that ultimately owns Burisma. Biden should have known better, he was either complicit by shutting down the investigation into Burisma or he was incompetent by allowing money to continue flowing into the Ukraine. Take your pick!
He also has mechanisms to do so within his mandate as President.

It is interesting that he's chosen to ignore all those mechanisms, and instead use his personal lawyer to do so.

Why do you think he has done so?
 

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Trump has every right to ask for an investigation into the Bidens. Billions of dollars in aid money has gone missing from the Ukraine while he was the point person. He should have been calling for investigations and stopped all aid until the money was found.

There evidence that the bank all this money went missing from is owned by the same guy that ultimately owns Burisma. Biden should have known better, he was either complicit by shutting down the investigation into Burisma or he was incompetent by allowing money to continue flowing into the Ukraine. Take your pick!
I'd be much easier to see this as an earnest concern if the people saying these things mentioned even one item about the shady ways Russian money was funnelled through Deutsche Bank to Trump businesses. Even if what you're saying is true, the people saying it seem to only be concerned about suspected corruption by Biden. If people were actually concerned about corruption, I would expect them to mention suspected corruption regardless of which side is doing it.
 

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One reason why "abuse of power" isn't always designated as a crimes is because the president has special powers that most of us don't have.

One example a pundit gave was Trump go out all the CIA spies working around the world. No legislature has made that a crime. But I would question the motives of a president who chose to do that.

It's bad enough that Trump wanted to go along with Putin and send Americans that Putin wanted to get his hands on to Russia for interrogation ..... and whatever else.

I know that there maybe some out there who would reason that maybe Putin has a good reason to interrogate. But I think that is a slipper slope. And personally, I want a President who works for me not for some foreign leader.
 

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Discussion Starter #287
It's being reported that Senate Majority Leader McConnell has just announced that he does not have the 51 GOP votes needed to stave off witness testimony!

Senatorial Question Day through Chief Justice Roberts begins tomorrow afternoon!
 

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It's being reported that Senate Majority Leader McConnell has just announced that he does not have the 51 GOP votes needed to stave off witness testimony!

Senatorial Question Day through Chief Justice Roberts begins tomorrow afternoon!
Drama for sure. But McConnell has until Friday to bring his caucus back to the fold. As the last few days have shown, 2 days is a political eternity and a lot can still change.
 

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I'm pretty sure he has had Rudy looking into it to see if there is enough to call for one.
When he already had an FBI attaché office in Kyiv? What an odd choice to send a personal lawyer instead of a professional investigator who is already in-country. Even more interesting when you realize that Trump wasn't paying Giuliani, Russia was (through Parnas and Fruman).
 

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When he already had an FBI attaché office in Kyiv? What an odd choice to send a personal lawyer instead of a professional investigator who is already in-country. Even more interesting when you realize that Trump wasn't paying Giuliani, Russia was (through Parnas and Fruman).
Putin right now is probably setting up an oligarch system in the US now. That's why these 3 Americans --Guliani, Parnas and Fruman -- are being paid by some Russian Oligarch now.

Who's next? Even McCarthy accuse Rohrbacher, a former House Rep from CA of getting paid by the Russians.
 

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I'd be much easier to see this as an earnest concern if the people saying these things mentioned even one item about the shady ways Russian money was funnelled through Deutsche Bank to Trump businesses. Even if what you're saying is true, the people saying it seem to only be concerned about suspected corruption by Biden. If people were actually concerned about corruption, I would expect them to mention suspected corruption regardless of which side is doing it.
Or if the man who is supposedly so concerned about corruption didn't just hold a press conference with a man currently under indictment for corruption in his own country.
 

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Putin right now is probably setting up an oligarch system in the US now. That's why these 3 Americans --Guliani, Parnas and Fruman -- are being paid by some Russian Oligarch now.

Who's next? Even McCarthy accuse Rohrbacher, a former House Rep from CA of getting paid by the Russians.
To be fair, McCarthy said he knew 2 people were paid by Putin. Rohrbacher, and Trump.


But as far as Giuliani, it is well documented that he was being paid by Parnas.

Here's a WaPo article from October:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/giuliani-was-paid-500000-by-company-owned-by-two-arrested-associates/2019/10/15/8a2c669a-ef4f-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html

Where was Parnas getting his money? Firtash.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/12/indicted-ukrainian-oligarch-paid-1-million-to-giuliani-pal-prosecutors-say/
 

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To be fair, McCarthy said he knew 2 people were paid by Putin. Rohrbacher, and Trump.


But as far as Giuliani, it is well documented that he was being paid by Parnas.

Here's a WaPo article from October:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/giuliani-was-paid-500000-by-company-owned-by-two-arrested-associates/2019/10/15/8a2c669a-ef4f-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html

Where was Parnas getting his money? Firtash.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/12/indicted-ukrainian-oligarch-paid-1-million-to-giuliani-pal-prosecutors-say/
Who funds Parnas?
 

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Discussion Starter #297
Drama for sure. But McConnell has until Friday to bring his caucus back to the fold. As the last few days have shown, 2 days is a political eternity and a lot can still change.
Not much time the next two days as it will be Senatorial Question Time through Chief Justice Roberts.

And I fully expect more rats to be falling out of the woodwork with even more damning revelations! And they're talking like the SDNY may be flexing its indictment muscles again real soon ~ can you spell Giuliani?

I'm thinking that Trump is needing his rallies to try to seek some relief!
 

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NTA, my guess is these two GOP Senators will surmise voting with the Dems will politically damage them exponentially more than rejecting advise from the Dem voters writing them letters to support the Dems and would vote against them at the next election.

Personally, I'd love to see the Bidens, some of Schiffs staff, and the whistleblower examined by the defense (and Bolten cross examined)
 
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