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Discussion Starter · #262 ·
There are some serious flaws with your analysis here.

Most notably, you are once again making the mistake that a low ratio is the same as thin. It most absolutely is not. A low ratio means someone who has a small waist relative to hip, and this can encompass a huge range of weights.

And in fact many studies find that weight or BMI is a more important indicator of attractiveness, although of course, results on that are equally inconsistent.

But the upshot here is that you are utterly missing the significance of these studies on conclusions about the universal appeal of the 0.7 ratio.

In addition, a huge number of the studies that support the conclusions you are so wedded to are also criticized for relying on poorly constructed and crude line drawings.
 

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I think most men who live in the real world recognize that women get lewd comments in public a lot more than men do. But, I don't think most men know what it feels like to feel degraded by comments from the opposite sex under the guise of "flirtation". Which is why I think most are indifferent to it. Its tough to empathize and understand something you never experienced.
Yes. Especially when most men would truly enjoy to have lustful sexual attention from a woman, particularly a woman they are attracted to.

I made a post about that here in this section awhile back...I think it was called "do men want to have their bodies worshipped too?"...to which I already knew the answer was yes.

Then there are the fine lines of gradation between what makes it fun to be lustfully worshipped...to what makes it a little less fun...to what makes it feel threatening or degrading...to what makes it downright terrifying. This is a complicated process, and I don't know if men can experience the terrifying part unless they are being stalked by another, bigger man...or if they are young and vulnerable.

I'm all for lustful worshipping of each other's bodies anytime it is mutual, though. I especially think that women could benefit in many ways by learning to worship their male partners' bodies in a way that is similar to the way men like to do it to their female partners' bodies. Including worshipping their ideal-or-not-so-ideal peens. ;)

(as long as everyone is happy with that...I'm not saying women should do it if they don't want to...then it is any fun)
 

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I have no problem if women want to objectify me. Why? Because if they do I don't have to be with them if I don't want to. It is really pretty simple.

If a woman doesn't want to be with me because of my penis size, that is definitely their issue, and I would be glad to be rid of her.

On the other side, I think attraction is just a fact of life- for both sexes. I personally like petite women with blond hair. That is just what I'm attracted to. Now I'm not making catcalls to women with those features or objectifying them in other ways, I just am attracted to those women.

The OP sounds like, generally speaking, she is very bitter toward men, which is sad. I feel sorry for her. I understand she is trying to attack men in an area they are vulnerable. In the end there is nothing I can do about my penis size, so I don't let people who might objectify me bother me. End of story.

Lastly, I have no idea where all these people who think that 6.5 is average are coming from. This thread inspired me to do some research and EVERY legitimate penis related site lists the average size as significantly smaller. Take a look at this chart
Average Penis Size Chart

Clearly 6.5 is almost an inch above average. Wiki says it is about 5.5-5.8, as do most of the other legitimate sites. I bring this up because I think there are quite a few men out there who needlessly worry about this topic.
 

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Who sponsored the study and how exactly did they go about getting this data? Was it simply based on asking women what size they prefer? Did the women even measure their partners? Depending on how they did the study, the it most likely comes across as highly subjective.

I suppose you could have a sample size of a couple hundred women, get a whole range of dildos based on length and girth combination that are also made of the realistic feeling material and do the study that way. Highly doubtful it went down this path though because that would definitely be too clinical plus would not factor in the quality of the lover in the first place - which is the biggest determinant for sexual satisfaction.

Most likely, it's a survey put together to get men insecure about their wangs and to buy enhancement drugs or other products to get into the "ideal area". Considering the ideal for women is roughly 1" above the averages in length and girth leads to a lot of disappointed ladies I suppose...

I have a hard time buying this study since there is so little info provided about the actual study in the article.
Really brah?

It's official: penis size does matter › News in Science (ABC Science)

Women like a tall guy with a big cawk.

Wow, like we weren't already aware of this fact and it wasn't already painfully obvious.

Life is ugly, and Nature doesn't give 2 figs about "gender equivalence" and "NAWALT" etc.

It just is what it is, and we all know it.

Whattyado? It's not like these are things a man can change.

Off to commit suicide by mod now by posting a thread in the ladies lounge about the ideal vagina that women need to possess, LOL
 

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Really brah?

It's official: penis size does matter › News in Science (ABC Science)

Women like a tall guy with a big cawk.

Wow, like we weren't already aware of this fact and it wasn't already painfully obvious.

Life is ugly, and Nature doesn't give 2 figs about "gender equivalence" and "NAWALT" etc.

It just is what it is, and we all know it.

Whattyado? It's not like these are things a man can change.

Off to commit suicide by mod now by posting a thread in the ladies lounge about the ideal vagina that women need to possess, LOL
If you are referring to the Australian study, those were manikins and the penis was flaccid. There have been several scientists, sociologists, etc.. who have mentioned that it really has to do with symmetry and desired body shape- not size. In other words, it is the appearance not the size. (Again, each penis in the Australian study was flaccid, which as we know, has no bearing or correlation on the size when erect.
 

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This thread has been an eye opener for me. People may think I have lived in a cave all my life but I had no idea that men would be this sensitive about this. Size does matter. Who cares as long as the little guy (pun intended) is getting plenty of action. Honestly if you're a guy that has taken this chart seriously and are spending time trying to refute it. You might as well just post in all caps I am insecure and I have a little one! Well played AA, well played.

I've always thought men were more self conscious about height, but this thread has proven me wrong on that theory.
 

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There are some serious flaws with your analysis here.

Most notably, you are once again making the mistake that a low ratio is the same as thin. It most absolutely is not. A low ratio means someone who has a small waist relative to hip, and this can encompass a huge range of weights.

And in fact many studies find that weight or BMI is a more important indicator of attractiveness, although of course, results on that are equally inconsistent.

But the upshot here is that you are utterly missing the significance of these studies on conclusions about the universal appeal of the 0.7 ratio.

In addition, a huge number of the studies that support the conclusions you are so wedded to are also criticized for relying on poorly constructed and crude line drawings.
Naw...either you aren't reading the studies or I'm not being clear in my exposition. What ALL the studies referenced in the article you linked to tell us, aside from the one which was debunked by other researches for general poor design and forced conclusion, is that there is a universal sexual appeal to the Golden Ratio in neolithic and later societies. I actually said it had been in place worldwide for 5000 years, based on art and that was actually pretty close to correct, since neolithic farming began 12,000 years ago and then started spreading out. The first 16 references in your article make that case for me, the next group of notes 17-23 were supposed to debunk that. A couple of them did not say what the article's author claimed they said, and one was considered worthless by numerous expert opinions. The two that were valuable to your argument that the golden ratio is not "universal" were the Hadza (paleolithic) and the Matsigenki (mesolithic) with regards to their meal acquisition. So, the totality of the "counter" references supports the argument that the Golden Ratio, if not completely universal and an artifact of the Paleolithic Era, is a universal artifact of the Neolithic Era and the beginnings of stationary farming. That means it applies to all people who have passed into the Neolithic farming revolution, but not the remnant paleolithic or mesolithic societies, according to Yu et. al. and Marlowe et. al.

As I said in my first comment on this, you're going against 5000 years of history. Make that 12,000 years of history.
 

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Reformed....Men and women both get insecure easily, and the reasons for this are mostly the same for both genders...we all want to feel wanted, beautiful, sexy...and when there are messages everywhere that you "don't measure up" somehow, you tend to believe those messages. And even if you do "measure up" there will still be a million people who measure up even better than you do, so people still may have no real sense of security.

Yes, many people can fight off the onset of insecurities...but even if you (any you) were able to do so, that doesn't mean that the constant "you don't measure up" messages are ok. There are ways we can make this better for everyone.

And by the way, this specific peen insecurity is actually painful to see and hear in person. I have heard it directly from so many guys and I just hear the self-doubt and sickening fear in them. It makes me really sad...I think all women know a man will act this way if his size is made fun of (or however the insecurity happens), and we feel bad for them. But many men do not feel bad for a woman if she is feeling "less than" in some area, instead, they either mock her, make fun of her, or attribute this to something that women do.
 

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Are there threads like 'Ideal breast sizes' also?
 

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Well, I agree with you on that and I personally am not opposed to boob threads (or boobs)...but what tends to happen again is a form of "shaming" women who have "less than perfect ones" or even just shaming women who don't declare feeling perfectly and totally secure with theirs. Always alone's point in this thread was to show that this happens when we poke and men's insecurities, too.
 

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Well, I agree with you on that and I personally am not opposed to boob threads (or boobs)...but what tends to happen again is a form of "shaming" women who have "less than perfect ones" or even just shaming women who don't declare feeling perfectly and totally secure with theirs. Always alone's point in this thread was to show that this happens when we poke and men's insecurities, too.
I have 2 kids. So safe to say my little bro is functional. For me, beauty is in utility. Just my .02.
 

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Let me weigh in on this boob vs penis size thing. First off, I am not taking sides or looking to offend anyone. But here's why I don't really equate one to the other. Boobs, while potentially visually stunning to look at, are not essential to the physical act of sex. The penis is. Now whether the size of it matters is neither here nor there. Perception is reality in the mind of the person wielding the sword.

So, comparing the size of boobs to the size of the penis is like comparing a nice snow jacket to a shovel in a blizzard. The snow jacket looks nice, and there are many different styles, but it doesn't effect snow removal. However, what effect does the shovel have in a blizzard, if the shovel is of a sub par standard? Potentially, a direct effect.

Does that make sense? Either way, shaming anyone for their natural attributes, male or female, is a deplorable practice.
 
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Discussion Starter · #279 ·
Naw...either you aren't reading the studies or I'm not being clear in my exposition.
Or you are purposely overlooking all contradictory information, to preserve your overly simplistic views.

Cross-cultural variation is exhibited in Spain, England, Italy, and parts of South America, Africa and Asia. And probably elsewhere too. And even within one culture there is much debate about the relative importance of the various attractiveness indicators. If you actually read through these studies, you would see that indeed it's been quite challenging to establish consistent findings.

And it's not just the contrary studies that are flush with methodological problems. Again, if you read the studies, those supporting the 0.7 ratio also note the dangers of response bias given the artificiality of experimental conditions. All told, we don't learn much at all, except that normal healthy women are viewed as attractive.

The irony of all this is that you introduced this line of thought as proof that objectification is bull****, but really what you've demonstrated is just how hell bent our culture is on reducing our perceptions of women to one measurement or another.

So thanks for that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #280 ·
I find it very intriguing that there is a constant and endless stream of media and situations where women are objectified, but if you dare to introduce an instance where the same might be true of men, the immediate reaction is to retaliate with some more objectification of women.

It really does suck to be objectified, doesn't it?
 
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