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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
WOW what a ****ty thing to say to you -- I am surprised that you bothered to stick with the Charade as long as you did...
Don't read too much into that. I mean we already had established that Dr. Douchebag was Plan A. So to say I'm not even Plan B, well that isn't all that much worse, in my mind. Plus people say things in the heat of an argument that they don't mean. At least I know I do and she does.


I highly doubt your wife felt like she had been violated. Afterall, she kept trying to be in his orbit.
I was using the word "Violated" as sort of play on words. Obviously he didn't rape her. He did violate ethical rules which was effective in getting her to give him "consent." The rules say that under the circumstances, consent could not be construed to have been given even if the victim agrees that it was consensual.

While a victim is still in the grip of the predator, no, they don't fell violated. Or often not.
Fear of change causes your anxiety.
Fear of change has been a personality trait of mine going back as far as I can remember.

In this case I still think the change was made for me. The big change, the status of our relationship. She made that change without input from me. Now my part is small. I now have to react to the change.
It looks like a case of better the devil you know than the one you don't.
I can't say you are wrong.
 

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This has to be one of the most fargged up threads I’ve ever read.
Go read the original. This one will be second.

@One Eighty

You say you want to win, you won't. You lost years ago when you didn't give her the boot. Now all you're doing is causing yourself more torment. I have to wonder if being on the spectrum is not what affected your decision. I think many find the Charade incredulous (I'm one of them) but I have the utmost respect for you for sticking to your decision. As I've told you before you are mentally tougher than most.
As far as the doc goes, make his life a living hell and make sure you tell us about it because as much as people tout the forgiveness for yourself deal there's many who revel in the misery caused to OM/OWs (I'm in that camp). Schadenfreude, I guess.
 

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Don't read too much into that. I mean we already had established that Dr. Douchebag was Plan A. So to say I'm not even Plan B, well that isn't all that much worse, in my mind. Plus people say things in the heat of an argument that they don't mean. At least I know I do and she does.




I was using the word "Violated" as sort of play on words. Obviously he didn't rape her. He did violate ethical rules which was effective in getting her to give him "consent." The rules say that under the circumstances, consent could not be construed to have been given even if the victim agrees that it was consensual.

While a victim is still in the grip of the predator, no, they don't fell violated. Or often not.


Fear of change has been a personality trait of mine going back as far as I can remember.

In this case I still think the change was made for me. The big change, the status of our relationship. She made that change without input from me. Now my part is small. I now have to react to the change.


I can't say you are wrong.
I agree. For a married person, their spouse needs to be the Plan A. If the spouse is not Plan A, then it doesn't really matter whether the spouse is Plan B/C/D or even Z. It's all about the same, as in "not Plan A".

Your wife forced the change (obviously without asking for your input) on you by cheating with a married man. And now you are forcing a change on her by doing the irreversible thing.

You know the phrase "Speak softly and carry a big stick". Now you showed her your big stick (absolutely no pun intended) and that you are not afraid of using it. So, now comes the part where you speak softly and not to kick her while she's down. But if she ever asks, then please remind her of that conversation where she mentioned that you were "not even Plan B!". Ask her, how did she expect you to react to that?

Looks like you got your guns pointed at the toad. So, I'd suggest to finish that off first and then deal with the rest including her later.

I'm sure you realize this but I'll say it anyway:
For all those years you lived with her knowing that you were her Plan B when she was your Plan A.
Now you've done your irreversible thing. Any moment she stays with you after that will be with her knowing that you've now made her your Plan B when she had decided to make you her Plan A (albeit after a long time and going through I.C.). And since it as an irreversible thing (as you mentioned) there's no way back for her to be your Plan A.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
Is she supportive of bringing down the AP?
Sort of. She is not vengeful. She prefers to let things go. Even really bad things. But for this, she said if it is what I want, she understands that she created the problem and she will not stand in the way of how I want to deal with it. She say's things like, "I owe it to you. I don't agree that it is the best way to handle this but I owe it to you to cooperate with you in whatever way you feel you need to deal with this." There is an element of public humiliation for her in this so it isn't just lip service. She actually had to go in front of lawyers and other strangers and tell them what he did. Which of course puts her in a rather unflattering light. Embarrassing. Imagine having to tell strangers you let that toad have his way with you. While you were married. Not an easy thing to do.

So, now comes the part where you speak softly and not to kick her while she's down. But if she ever asks, then please remind her of that conversation where she mentioned that you were "not even Plan B!". Ask her, how did she expect you to react to that?
She is such the consummate liar that she never once admitted, outside of an angry fight situation, that he was her Plan A. She says she always wanted me more, bla bla bla. No matter how many concrete examples of the opposite of that being true that I bring up she denies, denies, denies. Part of not kicking her when down is to just let her know I don't believe the lie and then walk away. Don't keep arguing about it.

Looks like you got your guns pointed at the toad. So, I'd suggest to finish that off first and then deal with the rest including her later.
Yes. The toad is my priority. And I'm not being insincere when I say that I'm not just doing this for my own vengeance. I think this guy needs to be brought to justice before he hurts more people. I've been contacted by former employees and current employees. His behavior has not changed and in fact has gotten more brazen.

A good thing I've heard is that one thing I did made him call all his employees together, thinking like any sociopath that they all love him and are fooled by him, so he called them all together in a conference room and then read them something I wrote and cried about it in front of them. Hoping to get their pity. Oh, the mean awful spiteful 180! What a monster he is! LMAO. The one that told me about this was inwardly thinking "Yes! Get that toad!" She couldn't wait to tell me about it.

Now you've done your irreversible thing. Any moment she stays with you after that will be with her knowing that you've now made her your Plan B when she had decided to make you her Plan A (albeit after a long time and going through I.C.). And since it as an irreversible thing (as you mentioned) there's no way back for her to be your Plan A.
I can tell this is true. There is no more Charade. I mean we are still acting like a married couple to the outside world. We still sleep together. Spend our free time together. But there isn't the deep Charade where we pretend we will be together long term. When we have sex it is just sex. Good sex but nothing like, oh, I love you so much! How could we ever be apart! That infatuation Charade is over. Which is a big change.
 

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Sort of. She is not vengeful. She prefers to let things go. Even really bad things. But for this, she said if it is what I want, she understands that she created the problem and she will not stand in the way of how I want to deal with it. She say's things like, "I owe it to you. I don't agree that it is the best way to handle this but I owe it to you to cooperate with you in whatever way you feel you need to deal with this." There is an element of public humiliation for her in this so it isn't just lip service. She actually had to go in front of lawyers and other strangers and tell them what he did. Which of course puts her in a rather unflattering light. Embarrassing. Imagine having to tell strangers you let that toad have his way with you. While you were married. Not an easy thing to do.
@One Eighty , I think this shows that your wife is remorseful. If all she had was the garden variety regret, then she would have done anything and everything to save her own skin. It takes courage to go in front of strangers and tell them what she did in detail. Even when she was describing what he did to her, she was in fact describing to everyone and to you about what she did when she cheated because she let it happen. Granted, the lawyers won't go in detail as to why, but that's for you to ask and find out, if you even want to and if you haven't already.

She is such the consummate liar that she never once admitted, outside of an angry fight situation, that he was her Plan A. She says she always wanted me more, bla bla bla. No matter how many concrete examples of the opposite of that being true that I bring up she denies, denies, denies. Part of not kicking her when down is to just let her know I don't believe the lie and then walk away. Don't keep arguing about it.
Well... at this point, it's really not about her "admitting" that the toad was her Plan A. Hopefully, she's embarrassed enough to say that she always wanted you more and for the same reason she'll keep denying.

At this point, it's not for you to prove to her and to get her to admit that he was her plan A. Whether she admits that or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is for her to know that your relationship is severely damaged by her affair and her subsequent actions. With her actions, she showed to you that you were not her Plan A. Now, it's up to her to convince you by her actions that you are her plan A. She needs to keep showing you that by her actions. So in other words, the burden on proof is not onto you to convince her and get her to admit that the toad was her plan A. The burden of proof is now onto her to convince YOU that you are her plan A.

I think she's doing that. She admitted to her cheating with that ugly @SS toad under oath (I'm assuming that she was deposed). By doing that she's showing that you are her plan A and she'll do what is needed to right the wrong that she did to you. I'm sure that she's not particularly excited with the idea that her parents and relatives will find out about her cheating. I'm sure the first questions would have been "why?" followed by "why him?". Answering the first why will portray her as a gold-digger and answering the question "why him?" would just solidify her image as a gold-digger. And she still went ahead and talked to people about it.

I can tell this is true. There is no more Charade. I mean we are still acting like a married couple to the outside world. We still sleep together. Spend our free time together. But there isn't the deep Charade where we pretend we will be together long term. When we have sex it is just sex. Good sex but nothing like, oh, I love you so much! How could we ever be apart! That infatuation Charade is over. Which is a big change.
Well.... What you've described here is the situation from your point of view. I don't think this is her point of view. The infatuation charade is over for YOU. She may not have been playing the charade for a long time. Something to think about...

If I may suggest, it would be a good idea to ensure that you have good communication with each other always. I think it's best to talk with her/ check in with her regularly. If needed schedule a couple of MC sessions. You described how convinced you are about how she's viewing the situation and what I'm saying is that the her take on the situation could be different.

Or in other words, what you are describing is just a perfectly regular and average married life of a couple that has been married for more than a decade. Please don't get me wrong. I think a decades long, perfectly regular and average married life is a great thing to have and to cherish. Especially in this hookup culture and where the marriage rate is dropping and divorce rate is inching higher. (These people have had too much time on their hands. )

I think that she may feel like she's in a vulnerable position now. So, please remember to speak softly and not to rock the boat.
 
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