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Discussion Starter #1
So this happened this week. And yes, it isn't hyperbole, you can follow the link to the actual statute in the article.

"Baiting grizzly bears with doughnuts soaked in bacon grease. Using spotlights to blind and shoot hibernating black bear mothers and their cubs in their dens. Gunning down swimming caribou from motorboats. "


I well and truly do not understand what motivates this kind of policy change. A case of "Not Obama?" Is their some group of fearless hunters whose livelihood has been removed because they can't use Krispy Kremes to bait a grizzly? How little respect for the natural world do you have to have to actually go to the trouble to do this?
 

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So this happened this week. And yes, it isn't hyperbole, you can follow the link to the actual statute in the article.

"Baiting grizzly bears with doughnuts soaked in bacon grease. Using spotlights to blind and shoot hibernating black bear mothers and their cubs in their dens. Gunning down swimming caribou from motorboats. "


I well and truly do not understand what motivates this kind of policy change. A case of "Not Obama?" Is their some group of fearless hunters whose livelihood has been removed because they can't use Krispy Kremes to bait a grizzly? How little respect for the natural world do you have to have to actually go to the trouble to do this?
He has rolled back so many environmental bills that I can barely read those articles anymore. Thing I’ve noticed is that most trump supporters don’t much care about the environment or the other living things in it, he’s been rolling back so many protection bills that I’ve lost count and none of his base seems to blink an eye :(


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Discussion Starter #3
National Geographic keeps a running list of tidbits that are environmental (there are a handful of positives, but they are rare)

OFFSHORE DRILLING SAFETY RULES ROLLED BACK
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ROLLS BACK OBAMA-ERA COAL RULES
NOAA GREEN LIGHTS SEISMIC AIRGUN BLASTS FOR OIL AND GAS DRILLING
EPA TO DISBAND AIR POLLUTION REVIEW PANEL
REPORT: TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PREDICTS 7 DEGREES OF GLOBAL WARMING BY 2100
EPA REPEALS OBAMA-ERA METHANE RULES
TRUMP EPA UNVEILS PLAN TO NULLIFY FEDERAL RULES ON COAL POWER PLANTS
TRUMP ANNOUNCES PLAN TO WEAKEN OBAMA-ERA FUEL ECONOMY RULES
TRUMP OFFICIALS PROPOSE ROLLBACKS OF ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT RULES
WHITE HOUSE CUTS NASA CLIMATE MONITORING PROGRAM
EPA STARTS ROLLBACK OF CAR EMISSIONS STANDARDS
FEMA EXPELS "CLIMATE CHANGE" FROM STRATEGIC PLAN
TRUMP PROPOSES CUTS TO CLIMATE AND CLEAN-ENERGY PROGRAMS
EPA LOOSENS REGULATIONS ON TOXIC AIR POLLUTION
MOST OF NATIONAL PARKS ADVISORY BOARD RESIGNS IN PROTEST
REPORT: CLIMATE CHANGE WEB SITES 'CENSORED' UNDER TRUMP
TRUMP EPA POISED TO SCRAP CLEAN POWER PLAN
TRUMP REVOKES FLOOD STANDARDS ACCOUNTING FOR SEA-LEVEL RISE
U.S. PULLS OUT OF PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT
TRUMP BUDGET PROPOSES STEEP CUTS FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
FEDERAL LANDS WON’T BE UNLEADED

just for starters,
 

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At the same time there is always the odd consumer/voter pushback. During the Obama administration, gun sales went way up. Well during the Trump administration, there were more electric vehicles sold in the first year than all the years of the Obama presidency, same goes for photovoltaic panels. At the same time during the Trump administration more coal plants have closed and more county and state laws were put in place banning plastics, as well as requiring reusable grocery bags.

So, while it may seem dire, consumers still have a lot of power, especially in the larger states that tend to be more liberal and often dictate how manufacturers and businesses operate nationally.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I suppose the fact that no one seems to be defending this here is a good sign, FWIW.
 

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Well all we need is more liberals running things then we will arrive at Utopia and it will be all rainbows and unicorns. As an owner of several businesses your Saint Obama necessitated that I reduce staff as my average health care costs per employees family plan of which I used to pay 100% went from $9,000 to $18,000 from 2018 to 2020. Multiply that by 60 employees, my costs increased $540K. It is easy to rob Peter to pay Paul. Paul will support you 100% of the time. Affordable Care Act is the most gruesome example of an oxymoron. Blame ol’ Donald for everything. Granted, if he kept off twitter and shut his mouth from time to time that would not be all bad, but the elimination of these regulations helped create more jobs. Oh well, this ol’ conservative Marine is a dinosaur now. So much for self reliance. Let’s all be victims and always blame Republicans for all the problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well all we need is more liberals running things then we will arrive at Utopia and it will be all rainbows and unicorns. As an owner of several businesses your Saint Obama necessitated that I reduce staff as my average health care costs per employees family plan of which I used to pay 100% went from $9,000 to $18,000 from 2018 to 2020. Multiply that by 60 employees, my costs increased $540K. It is easy to rob Peter to pay Paul. Paul will support you 100% of the time. Affordable Care Act is the most gruesome example of an oxymoron. Blame ol’ Donald for everything. Granted, if he kept off twitter and shut his mouth from time to time that would not be all bad, but the elimination of these regulations helped create more jobs. Oh well, this ol’ conservative Marine is a dinosaur now. So much for self reliance. Let’s all be victims and always blame Republicans for all the problems.
What does this have to do with the environment, which Trump is quite objectively unconcerned about protecting?
 

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You tell me sir. It speaks for itself/
 

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Quite clearly it does not, hence the question.

How many jobs were created by allowing hunters to bait grizzlies in Alaska with donuts?
There will be more jobs created in green (renewable) energy over the coming decade with increasing consumer demand for it. Businesses listen more to consumer demands than they do to blow hard politicians. It has started on the left and right coast and eventually will move to fly over country. While some states have managed to dictate representation not representative of populations, consumer populations have a strong voice.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
There will be more jobs created in green (renewable) energy over the coming decade with increasing consumer demand for it. Businesses listen more to consumer demands than they do to blow hard politicians. It has started on the left and right coast and eventually will move to fly over country. While some states have managed to dictate representation not representative of populations, consumer populations have a strong voice.
So you keep saying.

There is a lot more to environmental concerns than from where our energy comes. Many of these decisions have either no economic argument or one that is counter to business interests. There is little direct economic incentive to not kill off all members of an endangered species, at least in the short term. There is little economic incentive to disallow baiting grizzly bears with donuts.

Then there is the stripping of our national science institutions tasked with tracking climate change. The removal of language deemed unflattering to the goals of the administration from official reports. The rollback of EPA regulations that are associated with public health. Loosening of restrictions on offshore drilling that were put in place after Deep Water Horizon. Actively rolling back auto emissions targets that even the auto manufacturers don't want changed.

The environment is more than climate change mitigation.
 

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So you keep saying.

There is a lot more to environmental concerns than from where our energy comes. Many of these decisions have either no economic argument or one that is counter to business interests. There is little direct economic incentive to not kill off all members of an endangered species, at least in the short term. There is little economic incentive to disallow baiting grizzly bears with donuts.

Then there is the stripping of our national science institutions tasked with tracking climate change. The removal of language deemed unflattering to the goals of the administration from official reports. The rollback of EPA regulations that are associated with public health. Loosening of restrictions on offshore drilling that were put in place after Deep Water Horizon.

The environment is more than climate change mitigation.
I see your point on the endangered species act and that one is separate from the issues I have addressed.

The biggest problem in EPA rollbacks are those with drinking water, but prior to this administration taking office, most corporations had already built momentum in green energy technology. Start with auto companies, with very few exceptions, most of them have already built in plants that are looking to produce more electric vehicles by 2030 than ICE, they are not turning back. Most building construction have already designed for energy efficiency. Most municipalities have already planned for less coal plants and more diverse energy.

So, politicians can say one thing but most corporations have already built momentum in this newer technology.
 

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Most of the rollbacks have been at the level of the executive orders rather than through congressional bills. In that most companies are going to maintain the momentum because they are not going to change their manufacturing and business model on every presidential cycle.

Also companies that have already built manufacturing sites are not going to change because they are given the green light to do so, it cost too much. I don’t see manufacturers of efficient lightbulbs suddenly changing to the old incandescent bulbs just because an executive order went out. There is not cost efficiency in that move.
 

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Most of the rollbacks have been at the level of the executive orders rather than through congressional bills. In that most companies are going to maintain the momentum because they are not going to change their manufacturing and business model on every presidential cycle.

Also companies that have already built manufacturing sites are not going to change because they are given the green light to do so, it cost too much. I don’t see manufacturers of efficient lightbulbs suddenly changing to the old incandescent bulbs just because an executive order went out. There is not cost efficiency in that move.
Speak for yourself. I'm busy setting up a radium dial factory in my garage. Glow in the dark watches are the future!
 

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Quite clearly it does not, hence the question.

How many jobs were created by allowing hunters to bait grizzlies in Alaska with donuts?
431.2 jobs according to Krispy Kreme regional offices In Alaska
 

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Cletus I’m just jerking your chain my friend having a little fun you guys take everything way too serious. Life is short make it fun
 

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Discussion Starter #18
A little push-back on the EPA regulations.

"The yearlong effort to write the Trump administration rule was plagued with controversy. Just weeks before the final rule was published, the administration’s own internal analyses showed that it would create a higher cost for consumers than leaving the Obama-era standard in place and would contribute to more deaths associated with lung disease by releasing more pollution into the air."

 

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I'm surprised you expected any less. With all his rhetoric I keep thinking of your gingerbread man akin to house Harkonnen from the Dune novel/movie.

With a focus on heavy industrialisation and economic gains sacrificing and neglecting your environment. But thats just a foreign impression.
 
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