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Discussion Starter #41
I think that you should focus right now on falling back in love with yourself, and becoming you again. You need to be your own person. Have your own friends and Hobbies, you need to get motivated and excited about life again.
Interestingly, this is essentially what he told me himself last night. It's dawning on me that I was very uninteresting and had become so small that he couldn't find me attractive. He says I'm beautiful, and a lot of other complimentary things, but those don't mean as much as being a whole person with a full life. This is something I did not really understand.

Your so young and you have everything going for you. Wake up on a positive note. Set goals. Eat good, workout. Get dressed. Take control of your own life. Stop focusing so much on him. Trust me. Be this happy, positive, and magnetic person that people want to be around. Be someone that you want to be around.
This seems like very sensible advice. Thank you.

Trust me, once you become this happy, healthy, well balanced, good work ethic, confident person you become the prize and he will want some of that. He will crawl back into bed with you and he will want to make you happy. Then when that happens, YOU can decide if he is worth it enough for you, if he is trying enough for you, if you even really love him. Because right now you are feeling bad about yourself, your self esteem is low, and you feel like you NEED him.
When we fell in love, I had these very strong feelings that I couldn't live without him. Normal people, I'm told, grow out of that eventually, but I didn't. I still feel the same way I did 10 years ago -- that I would drop dead if something happened to him, etc. My self esteem has always been low in some areas and high in others, for example, I don't think of myself as particularly physically attractive but I have a high opinion of myself in some other areas like being very good at certain things (vague, but I mean that I don't hate myself across the board or anything).

Don’t give him all your power. That’s why he says he doesn’t love you right now because you gave away your power and stopped being your own person. Focus on you. Listen to uplifting empowering music. Set goals. Stop following him around like a pathetic dog.
Given that we have a particularly pathetic dog who follows us around, this image is very powerful. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me, I really appreciate you for that.
 

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So what was the takeaway from your text convo last night? And, why didn't you talk face to face? Boy he sure is conflict avoidant, isn't he?
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Can he be secretly gay?
I guess anyone could be secretly anything, but this one I doubt. I haven't seen any evidence of it in 10 years, and he's not from a homophobic milieu. I guess 95% of men are straight, when things were good, they were very very good, so I think he's just a straight man going through some ****. But what do I know, not much, right?
 

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Interestingly, this is essentially what he told me himself last night. It's dawning on me that I was very uninteresting and had become so small that he couldn't find me attractive. He says I'm beautiful, and a lot of other complimentary things, but those don't mean as much as being a whole person with a full life. This is something I did not really understand.







This seems like very sensible advice. Thank you.







When we fell in love, I had these very strong feelings that I couldn't live without him. Normal people, I'm told, grow out of that eventually, but I didn't. I still feel the same way I did 10 years ago -- that I would drop dead if something happened to him, etc. My self esteem has always been low in some areas and high in others, for example, I don't think of myself as particularly physically attractive but I have a high opinion of myself in some other areas like being very good at certain things (vague, but I mean that I don't hate myself across the board or anything).







Given that we have a particularly pathetic dog who follows us around, this image is very powerful. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me, I really appreciate you for that.


I am very similar to you. I give my all when I am with someone and often lose myself and make them my life. It’s not healthy. It’s co dependent.

Also you should look into Esther pearl and some of her advise about being in a relationship but maintaining desire for each other.


 

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Discussion Starter #45
So what was the takeaway from your text convo last night? And, why didn't you talk face to face? Boy he sure is conflict avoidant, isn't he?
We didn't talk face to face because he messaged me from work after I went home. I went home at 7pm, he worked until about 11pm. We texted between 7:30 and 9:20 or so last night. I suppose he could have waited until he got home but I will say I really appreciated getting the texts as he initiated the conversation and it gave us a chance to talk about things in a calm manner and I could read and re-read his texts without rewriting his half of the conversation in my mind.

The takeaway --

I don't know how to sum it all up but some things he said, these are direct quotes but I had to translate them because we don't speak English to each other, I erred on the side of accuracy instead of style:

"I love you very much, Florence1. If I didn't love you, I wouldn't have been in torment like this the past few days. You are the best thing that ever happened to me. We have been through amazing and very difficult things together. But always together. That's what we need here too - to be together like we have been the past few days. You've seen how much I've calmed down compared to Saturday night..."

"I don't want to harm you either, or myself. We'll work this out, my love. Love always wins."

"You don't deserve all this. During the time I was becoming distant because I was somewhere else all day with a completely different life from yours, you were at home dependent on me. And I know that I have harmed you over the past few years. I know how much you have struggled on my behalf. And I've struggled all these years not to weigh you down with responsibilities that were too much for you, but I reached the point where I was acting like you weren't an equal partner to me. And it was my mistake that I allowed that to happen."

"Believe in yourself, my love. You are worthy/capable of anything... Stand on your own two feet. I'm here to help you. I love you and you're my wife. I don't want to lose you. That is for sure. Even without sexual passion, I don't see you as a roommate Florence1, you are my life partner."

(Sorry, he said a lot more than that but my computer is acting weird and if I don't post this now, when I try to open messenger, I think I might lose this post, so I'll post this and then if I find something else worth sharing I'll post it in a separate comment.)
 

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...

"Believe in yourself, my love. You are worthy/capable of anything... Stand on your own two feet. I'm here to help you. I love you and you're my wife. I don't want to lose you. That is for sure. Even without sexual passion, I don't see you as a roommate Florence1, you are my life partner."
And if you tell him that lack of sexual passion is a deal-breaker? That you didn't sign up for life as best-friends-forever-without-benefits?

If he cannot understand how saying "even without sexual passion" would hurt you, there's no path forward. That's different from him not having sexual passion. Not having sexual passion might be, maybe, curable. But not understanding or relating to how you feel about it, probably not. If he can understand what it does to you, then sex therapy might be helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Some more quotes from our conversation last night, all said by him. I'm not going to bother putting my side of it, it's probably not necessary.

"You deserve [an erotic relationship] more than I do. You're a much better person, and much more mature. If one of the two of us deserves an erotic relationship, it's you. I'm the ******* here."

[after I told him I assume he's having an affair]

"I'm not having an affair, Florence 1. If you don't want to believe me on that, what can I say. If I were having an affair, I would have told you." ... "I told you what I feel. It isn't about my relationship to other women. It's about my relationship with you. I couldn't have an affair Florence1. And I understand how all this is for you. I have empathy. I'm telling you that the substance of the problem is the emotional distance. Even if that's only happened on my side. That's what I'm trying to rediscover with you. To get to know you again. And we've been doing very well at this over the past few days! I know that this is torturing you. I'm sorry. It's hard for both of us for different reasons."

"You should act however you feel! Do what your body tells you. That's what I'm doing. We can't go against what we feel." ... "What's the 'worst thing' that you think about when I go out?"

[after I say it's that he won't come back]

"!!!!!!!!!!! Are you nuts??????? (my spontaneous response!) Of course I'll come back. You're my partner. 10 years together don't go poof because I'm not feeling passion from my side. I'm telling you again exactly what the problem is from my side in our relationship. That's it. Period. Everything else is in your imagination."

"We're saying more or less the same thing... but hold onto what I actually say when you think about it... Don't chuck that out and think only about what I told you Saturday night [at 3am] and end up manufacturing your own scenarios."

[after I said that his panic attack/weird behavior aren't adequately explained by 'the spark has gone out']

"They are adequately explained, my love. When you feel guilty for what you *don't* feel for an incredible person like you who has done everything for you, it's emotionally wearing. I had to tell you, but I didn't want to, but it was the right thing to do. I swallowed it in case I could come up with a solution in the meantime. But I had to tell you and I did it, even if it was in the way that I did it. And I'm glad because I've stopped feeling like I have to protect you from my feelings. I realized after I told you that it was in fact the right thing to do. I was scared, Florence1. Fear is the worst counselor. But I'm chicken****, I know, I am trying to change that, to improve myself."

"Florence1, millions of couples go through this kind of crisis. It doesn't mean it's not fixable."

[after I asked him if he wanted to go to marriage counseling]

"Not yet. If necessary later, yes. I think we can pull out of this on our own. I already feel better Florence1. I'm not like I was. Yesterday I *wanted* to sleep together [meaning sleep, not sex]. And I couldn't have fallen asleep without you beside me... doesn't that count for something?"

[after I told him that I felt bad about him sleeping on the couch in 2016]

"Florence1 many times I got up from our bed on my own or you asked me to leave [this is true, sadly]. And you never, not one time, came to sleep in our bed together like last night [actually I did the night before that too]. You didn't want it that much. What matters is that yesterday we both wanted to. Tonight we'll see. Step by step, my love."

[after I reiterated I had meant back in 2016]

"That belongs to the distant past. Not so much from a chronological perspective but from a psychological one for me. I am a completely different person from that [his name]."

[after I told him how helpless I felt with him sleeping on the couch with the dog]

"I felt security on the couch. Like I wouldn't disturb you. I slept and woke at random times and I watched shows and practiced avoidance. I just wanted to wake up and push a button on the TV. If I could have not had to pee I wouldn't have done that either."

[after I told him "I didn't see you erotically then, you were like a baby"]

"See? Something similar happened to me now." ... "I'm glad you didn't see me erotically then. I was so pathetic that it would have been bizarre if you had."

[after I talked about how I bought the business so he could have a new life, new career]

"It's done. That isn't changing. We move forward on the basis of the choices we made. And I'm doing everything I can in defense of those choices."

[I say, "I bought it for you"]

"I thank you sincerely. And it helped me psychologically. But not you. You sacrificed yourself for me and I know that. Don't think that doesn't weigh on me."

[I blather on for ages about how much I wanted to spend the money on a house for us instead and it was my big dream]

"Dreams are beautiful things, my love. For me it was nice to think about that too. But in the course of events it didn't work out the way we had wanted it to back then. We have to adjust and to be flexible. Supposedly along with the dream about the house, we were both going to finish our doctorates [we didn't]. Everything changes over time. Conditions change. And feelings change as a result of the conditions." ... "Tell me your dreams, my love... what are they today?"

[I say I just have nightmares now]

"What can I say. I'm sorry... Live day by day, we'll work this out."

[after I say I hope I'm as lucky as he is that his spouse fell back in love with him]

"Yes. I hope that too and I believe inside that it will happen. Do you think it was wrong of me to tell you how I felt?"

[I say yes, and that it was an act of cruelty]

"An act of cruelty during my panic attack? I was suffering Florence1. I disagree that it was an act of cruelty." ... "If you can, put yourself in my position. I understand that it hurt. But on the other hand, you had told me once that the worst thing for you was for you to thnk that everything was perfect, and years later for me to tell you that all along I hadn't been happy."

[I concede that this is true]

"In any case, I told you because I couldn't have done otherwise that night. Perhaps today I would act differently." ... "I'm not abandoning you. You immediately started to work on fixing this. [Back in 2016 when he was in my shoes] I was totally helpless. You are acting! And even if it could have been done painlessly, at least it did happen and it worked." ... "Did I ever say I was leaving you?"

[I said, you destroyed my sense of security in the relationship]

"And my own sense of security that you aren't going to kick me out of the house and your business, Florence1." ... "Can you see this as a spur for us to be better? Can you see the positive side?" ... "And can you not put on two sides of a scale how helpless I was back then with how you are now?" ... "Your passion came back. Why wouldn't mine?" ... "You're doing great this week. I feel better already. What else can I say? If you think that you're not being yourself and you're doing all this just for me, then yes, that would be a problem, naturally. I don't want you to change who you are. I want you to become a part of my life."

[after I say, it's the first time in 10 years I am imagining our relationship to be not-permanent]

"Handle it. Spur yourself to action. And if you can't handle it, communicate with me so we can find the best solution for you and me. We're not in this relationship to hurt each other. I want us to solve this. I'm scared too. But I'm here and I'm trying. I'm not allowing any fear to paralyze me. I let that happen a few years ago." ... "And please know that as much as I was loved, you were loved that much again. That is historical fact and nothing will change that. I'll come home when I close and I'll hold you. (heart emoji)"

[we talk about minutiae like putting the heated mattress pad on the bed, end of conversation more or less]
 

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I find it curious that he keeps secrets from you, yet he told you that he's not sexually attracted to you. Why not keep that a secret too? I don't get it.

Are you ok with him saying no to marital counseling (MC) right now? If so, do you think you should put an end date to it? Say, if this doesn't get better in ____ months, we are going?

There is SO much going on. I just don't have hope that this will get resolved without professional counseling. Both of you are suffering so much. You're not even remotely on the same page.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I find it curious that he keeps secrets from you, yet he told you that he's not sexually attracted to you. Why not keep that a secret too? I don't get it.
Well I guess he did, for a while, until he didn't want to anymore. He has a hard time telling me (or other people) things he knows will upset them.

Are you ok with him saying no to marital counseling (MC) right now? If so, do you think you should put an end date to it? Say, if this doesn't get better in ____ months, we are going?
I have no confidence in marriage counseling, so I don't care much either way. I have been to multiple therapists and every one of them was a complete waste of money. I think it's weird he's as open to IC as he is.

There is SO much going on. I just don't have hope that this will get resolved without professional counseling. Both of you are suffering so much. You're not even remotely on the same page.
I'm envisioning how many billable hours a therapist would have to listen to to get up to speed and despairing. But I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either. I think he did this in a very ham-handed way but I'm also oversensitive and catastrophize things.

I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.
 

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I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.

No l believe your just a normal, normal woman who wishes for the best. But at this time only sees the picture from a different set of eyes. When we get wounded it's only natural to get defensive. Don't give up here keep reading all the post but use what can help you and leave the rest. I only desire for you to be complete. And just seeing things in a different light may give you strength in the ways to benefit you.
 

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Well I guess he did, for a while, until he didn't want to anymore. He has a hard time telling me (or other people) things he knows will upset them.



I have no confidence in marriage counseling, so I don't care much either way. I have been to multiple therapists and every one of them was a complete waste of money. I think it's weird he's as open to IC as he is.



I'm envisioning how many billable hours a therapist would have to listen to to get up to speed and despairing. But I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either. I think he did this in a very ham-handed way but I'm also oversensitive and catastrophize things.

I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.
I'm getting the feeling your husband is massively effective at manipulation, but I don't have a clue as to his game.

As for your feelings about IC & MC, I don't really think you have a choice. Unlike what your husband suggests, you are NOT going to get through this without outside help. In my opinion, he desperately doesn't want to introduce a third party that sees him for what he is.
 

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I'm envisioning how many billable hours a therapist would have to listen to to get up to speed and despairing. But I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either. I think he did this in a very ham-handed way but I'm also oversensitive and catastrophize things.
I think a good therapist isn't going to get wrapped up in every detail, she will concentrate on the big picture. I think what happened to H is awful, but he isn't reacting to it well. His decision that you are better off w/o his affection reminds me of people who commit suicide believing their loved ones are better off w/o them. Many of them really believe that, but they couldn't be more wrong. A good therapist is likely to call him on this and point out you want to be on his side but he is turning away from you.
I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.
Keep in mind what the qualifications to give advice here are. If you get one piece of advice that helps you and a bunch that make you mad, you got a bunch that were worth what you paid and one that was a bargain. That's coming out ahead.

Here is what gives me the most optimism- "I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either." That comes out in all of your posts, and it gives you a lot of chances.
 

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A few random questions, if you are willing to answer.

How did you meet?

How much time did you spend together before getting married?

Is he from a drastically different culture than yours?

Are either of you religious? If you are, do you share the same faith, and has that always been the case?

Are you sure he doesn’t want kids?
 

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Sweetheart, my heart aches for you. I literally want to slap the arrogance out of him. Grrrr.

Were you cruel to him when HE was depressed? The way he is cruel to you? Give me 5 minutes with him....

While I too think it admirable of you to own your share of what's happening at the moment, I do feel that you are shouldering FAR too much of the blame. You are his wife. His life partner. He chose you to share his life. If he was feeling this way for a while, he should have spoken up to you. He should also have worded it much more carefully. Gee, he's feeling better now. Your self worth has been thumped out of you but hey, he's feeling better so that's all that matters right?

Please don't allow him to let you live in this limbo. You do have some power here and some control over the situation. I really hope that once a few days have passed, that your anger will kick in and you'll start laying down some friggin rules, starting with MC IMMEDIATELY or you're outta there.
 

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@Florence1,

I really feel for you in this situation. It's clearly very hard on you.

From what your husband said, he's a lost soul right now and has no idea what's going on in his own head. He is going to have to solve that on his own.

At this point, I think you would benefit by putting a lot of effort into yourself. That does not mean that you have to abandon your husband, it just means that you need to nurture yourself so that you grow stronger.

One thing that I see in your conversation with your husband that you posted above is that while he might feel lost (not sure if that's the right word), he is clearly secure in your love for him. This makes it easy for him to wallow in his confusion or misery because he feels safe. He's focused on himself. You are focused on him. He's a lucky guy. You are, however, not so lucky right now.

Turn your focus on yourself. What can you do to make yourself feel stronger? How can you take care of yourself better? What can you do to inspire positive changes in your relationship?

I agree with you about counselors. Many of them are just not very good. I have found that often books are more helpful. There is one that I think would be very helpful for you: "Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again" by Michele Weiner-Davis.

The only person you can change is yourself. However, if you change in positive ways, you will inspire changes in your relationship and in your husband.

There is a study that I read about some time ago. The research was focused on couples who said that they were very unhappy in their marriages. Five years later, 85% of the couples said that they had worked through their problems and were now very happy. My point is that it's completely possible to fix your marriage. In marriage, love ebbs and flows. You have been in a rough spot for a while, but it can be repaired with some work and some luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
A few random questions, if you are willing to answer.

How did you meet? How much time did you spend together before getting married?
We were both in a shared interest group, we met and got to know each other about 5 years before we got engaged. We were only engaged for 5 months before we got married for immigration reasons, I would have been deported if we didn't get married so we did.

Is he from a drastically different culture than yours?
Not drastically. Different yes, but not ridiculously so.

Are either of you religious? If you are, do you share the same faith, and has that always been the case?
We were both atheists long before we met and both still are. We also share all the same political positions although that wasn't always the case (I'm the one who ended up agreeing with his positions rather than the other way around). The main ideological difference between us is that he's a vegetarian and I'm a flexitarian.

Are you sure he doesn’t want kids?
That's what he says. However he hasn't taken it upon himself to get a vasectomy so maybe he's not 100% sure. However as recently as two weeks ago I asked him if he was regretful that we didn't have kids and he said "I'm so glad we didn't." I'm choosing not to take that as "I'm so glad I didn't have kids with YOU".

His mom told me as recently as 4 days ago on the phone that she thinks I should trick him into getting me pregnant. It goes without saying that this is a preposterous suggestion that I would never take seriously in a thousand years, and she's off her nut to even say it out loud, but anyway I do have the in laws breathing down my neck but I don't let it get to me. I tell her every time she does this that her son doesn't want kids, take it up with him.
 

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Sweetheart, my heart aches for you. I literally want to slap the arrogance out of him. Grrrr.

Were you cruel to him when HE was depressed? The way he is cruel to you?
Not for a single second, and he's the first to admit that.

If he was feeling this way for a while, he should have spoken up to you. He should also have worded it much more carefully. Gee, he's feeling better now. Your self worth has been thumped out of you but hey, he's feeling better so that's all that matters right?
I guess it comes down to, where do you draw the line and say, now it's time to talk and tell her. Because if he had told me the first instant that it dawned on him, maybe that would have been overkill, creating marital discord for no reason. And then it becomes a question of, okay, you didn't tell her the moment it dawned on you, so when is the right time? Is now too late? Should you have done it 4 months ago? Should you have done it 6 months from now? I don't know, and it's pretty clear he doesn't either.

Please don't allow him to let you live in this limbo. You do have some power here and some control over the situation. I really hope that once a few days have passed, that your anger will kick in and you'll start laying down some friggin rules, starting with MC IMMEDIATELY or you're outta there.
We had a quarrel last night. I guess this is as good a place to write it as anywhere.

He seemed a little down last night compared to the previous night. He took a short nap when he got home from work and asked me to make something like soup. He has having some discomfort in his throat/chest. I made soup and he had that and then later on I went to join him in bed. He got a message on his phone in FB Messenger and I asked him who it was from (me of course worrying it was an AP). He said it was from F (woman's name, never heard of her). I asked who she was, he said she was someone he'd met through our business (so it would make sense I wouldn't know her since I was in absentia). I pressured him about it and he said he had sent her holiday greetings and she had replied, and that was all. I told him I wanted to see and he BLEW UP at me. I was shocked. I wasn't expecting that reaction at all but it seemed like a major red flag to me.

He has always had the belief that each of us is entitled to privacy on our devices, if we had diaries, etc. I don't feel the need for that kind of privacy. It wouldn't bother me if he went through my devices. I have nothing to hide. I have plenty of embarrassing crap on my computer (like time wasting and frivolous stuff) but nothing sexual or betraying. I've also never lied to him. It would make me uncomfortable if he found this thread, but this thread is literally the only thing on my devices that's shady on my part. He has lied to me in the past and acknowledges that.

So thus began a big discussion about how I think he should WANT to put my mind at ease by him asking me to look through his phone so I don't worry about affairs. And him saying that's paranoia and disrespectful and he would never do that to me (well, yeah, of course not, cause I'm not the one with the past history of lying!).

He was furious and I haven't seen him like that in years. Literal years, maybe 8 years. He didn't really raise his voice much, but his voice had a coldness to it, almost like he was disgusted with me for being so pathetic/paranoid. Meanwhile I'm sitting there imagining a color guard twirling a hundred huge red flags down Main Street.

Anyway the upshot was I wore him down until he showed me the text messages and it was what he'd said, the most recent message between them was from over a month ago. And he said he wanted to be alone and he was obviously pissed off at me.

I said, okay, I'll leave you alone but there are no blankets in the guest bedroom (where I used to sleep) because I put them in here because it's been really cold. He said, I don't want you to be cold, stay here, it's fine, we'll just go to sleep. So we both calmed down a lot and we watched TV for a bit and then he said he wanted to sleep, turned off the TV, and was asleep within a minute. I fell asleep maybe half an hour later.

Then this morning he appeared to be over it, things were sweet again, he acknowledged that we'd had a quarrel but he didn't seem to hold a grudge about it. We had a sort-of sexual interaction. I'm not sure how much to detail it but it was like 95% me and he was sort of just watching me. He didn't try to get involved. He said he liked it. I tried not to read too much into anything on either side. I do that every day and I'm not going to allow myself to get overly self-conscious about it. He was pretty fascinated, let's say. But he didn't try to have sex with me. He told me a couple times that I was gorgeous. Okay thanks.

Then later on I made breakfast and walked the dog and he's gone out for coffee and says later we'll go out to eat together, neither of us will go to work today. I think that's everything.

I know already that everyone is going to say that he's protecting his affairs by not showing me his phone, that's the obvious conclusion, and if I can't handle you all writing that, I shouldn't post that it happened. I'm not stupid. He was so ridiculously over the top about it, I was sitting there with my mouth open that he was making it into such a huge deal. I don't understand why he would care if he wasn't trying to hide anything. He was acting like it was some point of honor. At one point I said something like, "if theoretically it were a matter of life and death, would you show me your phone to save my life?" And he said yes, and I said, "okay, so there are limits to this, we just don't know what they are."

Before that happened, I was feeling hopeful.
During that whole thing, I was feeling absolutely destroyed, like, this is so blatantly obvious, I might as well have walked in on him with another woman.
Afterwards, I just feel tired.
 

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Oh no. I won't belabor the phone incident.

The thing that REALLY bothers me is that you gave him a show without his participation. Under normal circumstances, in a healthy relationship, that's great! But under these circumstances, it just seems off to me. It reeks of desperation.:crying:

ETA: I'm with the others. You need to focus on you and stop focusing on him. You're doing the pick-me dance. Affair or no.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Just award me "Most Confused Wife 2019" and move on, folks.

Yesterday we had a wonderful dinner out, probably the nicest time I've had with him in years, I almost forgot The Situation. Delightful conversation, truly intellectually stimulating, the kind of conversation that reminds you WHY you fell in love in the first place. We came home to our dog having gone through the recycling and eaten something she definitely should not have, but dealt with it in good humor and she seems none the worse for wear. This morning he wanted me to give him oral sex and I did. (He'd gone into work early, came home, brought breakfast for both of us, and was relaxing in bed with me when that happened.)

I don't know how much is okay to write here so I'll try to keep this minimal but basically, I know his body well enough to know that based on how it ended, he definitely hasn't had sex in a long time. It has to do with the duration of the O. I don't know if other men are like that but in his case there's a very direct relationship between how long that goes on and how long since he's had sex. I think that was the second longest I've ever seen, meaning, against all the other evidence, physiologically he's not having sex with anyone else. His body just doesn't do that. So it's an EA or nothing.

We're both in a weird place.

He definitely wanted me to do it. I didn't suggest it, he shoved my head down there. And physiologically he was perfectly healthy, if you get my drift. When it was over he wanted to take a shower and there wasn't a great deal of cuddling. Maybe 5-10 minutes max. Then we watched soccer and he fell asleep. He wasn't overly affectionate with me. He knows me well enough to know that after sex I like a lot of affection. He said something to the effect that he liked it and he was happy about it, he loved me.

I walked the dog, a Christmas present arrived, I opened it, showed it to him, he was in a bad mood because of something on TV news. He's in bed watching TV and scrolling through FB.

It also occurs to me that what he doesn't want me to find on his phone could also be him telling his friends how miserable he is with me or something like that. Well we've already established I have no earthly idea what is happening. I'm giving him space. I think we'll go into work together in a few hours.

I'm not sure how "I'm not sexually attracted to you" and what happened this morning coexist but whatever.
 

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You must remember that all sexual problems are not because of You, He said "I'm not sexually attracted to you" not because of something wrong with you. Everything happens in his head and he doesn't control it. Do not try to look for a logical motive and effect because you will go insane.
 
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