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Reading a lot of posts, rather consistent concepts seem to run through responses from TAM veterans. For example, in coping with infidelity, betrayed are advised to just divorce the offender and move on. Attempting to repair damage is discouraged because success probability is essentially zero. For marital problems other than infidelity, counseling of one sort or another is recommended.

So, is there a summary sticky somewhere on this site laying out the default concepts for those dealing with marital issues? If so where is it? If not wouldn't that help people searching for answers? It would also help us non-veterans to avoid offering "borderline unethical" advice contrary to TAM wisdom.
I would just point out that sometimes part of the "help" is that the poster gets to vent and share his problems with others, and anonymously, which is a great benefit to many. Here you can hear many views. There are no absolutes, of course. You get some input and then weigh that information and see if anything seems relevant or helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
All this place does is offer opinions and advice. I am not sure there is such a thing as an expert in any of this.
Ok, so there is no conventional wisdom or expertise, nothing backed by data or science. Just individual opinions based on their personal experiences and bias. So, would seem that any opinion is as valid as any other, because is just someone's opinion. Someone asking for advice will get a spectrum of advice. For example, someone betrayed by a spouse will have some telling them to divorce. Others will say reconcile. Some will say reconciliation has a 0.1% success rate, someone else will say the success rate is 85%. The person receiving the advice chooses one "opinion" ( maybe a minority opinion ) as how they will proceed, and is called foolish for accepting the "wacky" advice.
 

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Ready for another opinion?

I wouldn't be too concerned whether one is a ‘veteran’ here or not. Just jump in and share your views, experiences, and opinions (with awareness of the forum guide-lines). Sometimes group think happens yet counter-narratives are also helpful.

As the reader, we receive snippets of insight to a relationship. We don’t get the full complex dynamic and nuances. If something resonates with another, or facilitates a different view that is deemed by the individual as useful, then that’s it. Any kind of ‘change’ that someone might be seeking comes down to actions. Also I’d be cynical of someone claiming to be an ‘expert’ - and even more so in this format. Yet in saying that, I do not discount there are health and human service professionals posting too.

We all have diverse lived experiences and qualities to share and this medium is just one way of doing so.
 
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Ok, so there is no conventional wisdom or expertise, nothing backed by data or science. Just individual opinions based on their personal experiences and bias. So, would seem that any opinion is as valid as any other, because is just someone's opinion. Someone asking for advice will get a spectrum of advice. For example, someone betrayed by a spouse will have some telling them to divorce. Others will say reconcile. Some will say reconciliation has a 0.1% success rate, someone else will say the success rate is 85%. The person receiving the advice chooses one "opinion" ( maybe a minority opinion ) as how they will proceed, and is called foolish for accepting the "wacky" advice.
Most posters will say more than "Divorce" or "Reconcile", they will offer some rationale or evidence and this can help you decide. If you get one opinion that sounds well-thought out and helpful, and ten you recognize as crap, it's not like you have to do the stupid ones. If you don't get any helpful advice, at least it didn't cost anything.

If someone calls you foolish that is regrettable, but it is the internet.
 

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Ok, so there is no conventional wisdom or expertise, nothing backed by data or science. Just individual opinions based on their personal experiences and bias. So, would seem that any opinion is as valid as any other, because is just someone's opinion. Someone asking for advice will get a spectrum of advice. For example, someone betrayed by a spouse will have some telling them to divorce. Others will say reconcile. Some will say reconciliation has a 0.1% success rate, someone else will say the success rate is 85%. The person receiving the advice chooses one "opinion" ( maybe a minority opinion ) as how they will proceed, and is called foolish for accepting the "wacky" advice.
Well there isn't any one set of advice that TAM has to offer.
Many of the statistics are made up based on the posters opinion. In your first post you said if it isn't infidelity they are told to get counseling. LOL. I find that funny because if there was one majority opinion (not consensus) it seems to divorce.

I see many a thread no matter what the issue is people say oh divorce. I think that is the because the majority of posters have been divorced and most are happier.

So I actually find it odd that the site is talk about marriage because many are pushed to divorce here. Second counseling is offered up but really counseling milage varies a lot. Counselors are like anything else some are good at what they do and some just aren't. So counseling only helps if you get a good one and both parties are ready to try to improve their relationship.

Some posters offer their perspective. They often times don't even really read the thread or consider the OP situation. They read enough to get triggered and then unleash, either on the poster or the posters significant other. Some of course try to offer advice based on the OP's post. But many OP's hide true relevant facts. And some posters treat it like a half read book and want to write the ending. Milage varies.

So jump in. Offer advice you can do better than some and worse than others. Whether you are in the majority opinion or not doesn't matter. You do your best to help someone. Majority doesn't mean right.

In 2015, for every 1,000 married persons ages 50 and older, 10 divorced
Among all Americans 18 years of age or older, whether they have been married or not, 25 percent have gone through a marital split.
The National Council of Family Relations reports that about 50 percent of all American marriages end in divorce.
Among those who have said their wedding vows, one out of three have been divorced

there are three different statistics about divorce. They don't agree. One this site if I had to make up a statistic I would say 80% of the posters are divorced. That certainly doesn't match any of the above statistics. So I think the majority opinion is posted by a group that is overweighed with divorced individuals. Does it make their advice wrong. nope just a different perspective than the ones who aren't divorced. JUMP in.
 

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There are three different statistics about divorce. They don't agree. One this site if I had to make up a statistic I would say 80% of the posters are divorced. That certainly doesn't match any of the above statistics.
Well, to be fair, there are very few people here who came to brag about how great their marriages are. Almost if not everyone is here because of a marital problem that is usually serious. To equate this site's numbers with the general population would be like comparing how many people in a cancer clinic have cancer versus the general population.
 

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Well, to be fair, there are very few people here who came to brag about how great their marriages are. Almost if not everyone is here because of a marital problem that is usually serious. To equate this site's numbers with the general population would be like comparing how many people in a cancer clinic have cancer versus the general population.
There are a few that are married and never divorced. But the main point was simply that advice from healthy marriages wouldn't necessarily be the majority but doesn't make the advice any more wrong or right. So don't be afraid to have a different advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
In 2015, for every 1,000 married persons ages 50 and older, 10 divorced
Among all Americans 18 years of age or older, whether they have been married or not, 25 percent have gone through a marital split.
The National Council of Family Relations reports that about 50 percent of all American marriages end in divorce.
Among those who have said their wedding vows, one out of three have been divorced
Maybe I read these statistics to say that after age 50, 1% of those married divorce in a typical year, So with life expected to last ~30 years after 50 the total probability would be 30%, which isn't much different than the other two stats, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of marriages end in a divorce. Somewhere I have read that second, third, etc marriages have even higher failure rates. Everyone I have ever known who married more than twice have gone on to three, four, five, etc.

So if I was advising someone about getting married after a divorce, would seem the honest data based advice would be to tell them the odds are against success. If advising someone about getting married in the first place, would tell them the chances of staying married are no better than 3 in 4, and average marriage has a 1/100 chance of divorce every year of the marriage? Not that someone "in love" is going to listen to any advice like that.

What might be even more useful in a marriage forum would be survey results summarizing what most common reasons for divorce were. I read somewhere that finances were the biggest cause for divorce.
 

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Maybe I read these statistics to say that after age 50, 1% of those married divorce in a typical year, So with life expected to last ~30 years after 50 the total probability would be 30%, which isn't much different than the other two stats, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of marriages end in a divorce. Somewhere I have read that second, third, etc marriages have even higher failure rates. Everyone I have ever known who married more than twice have gone on to three, four, five, etc.

So if I was advising someone about getting married after a divorce, would seem the honest data based advice would be to tell them the odds are against success. If advising someone about getting married in the first place, would tell them the chances of staying married are no better than 3 in 4, and average marriage has a 1/100 chance of divorce every year of the marriage? Not that someone "in love" is going to listen to any advice like that.

What might be even more useful in a marriage forum would be survey results summarizing what most common reasons for divorce were. I read somewhere that finances were the biggest cause for divorce.
So you advise someone to marry or not marry based on statistics?
 

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Ok, so there is no conventional wisdom or expertise, nothing backed by data or science. Just individual opinions based on their personal experiences and bias. So, would seem that any opinion is as valid as any other, because is just someone's opinion. Someone asking for advice will get a spectrum of advice. For example, someone betrayed by a spouse will have some telling them to divorce. Others will say reconcile. Some will say reconciliation has a 0.1% success rate, someone else will say the success rate is 85%. The person receiving the advice chooses one "opinion" ( maybe a minority opinion ) as how they will proceed, and is called foolish for accepting the "wacky" advice.
I'd say what you're getting, for the most part, is someone detached from the emotion of the situation and an outside perspective.

Now, not everyone can do that as you've seen in some of the more recent threads. Some of the other betrayed get triggered and can't see how each person's situation is different. So, you'd think I'd be implying that all the advice from those who've been betrayed and get triggered is bad. Far from it. Sometimes it's extremely relevant and helpful.

Each situation is a little different.
 

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So, would seem that any opinion is as valid as any other, because is just someone's opinion.
No, not any opinion is as valid as any other. My experience is rather different. I've had a lot of good advice, but, If you've been here with a story of failure, or if you are considered a doormat, for example, some "veterans" will consider your opinion less valid and they will remind you of this. Often. Especially if they don't agree with you... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
So you advise someone to marry or not marry based on statistics?
I would tell them to study the stats, there are lot of sources from UN, CDC, etc and decide for themselves if they feel lucky rolling the dice. I would also say if divorce is the default answer whenever problems arise (which they certainly will) probably best to stay single and just date.

FWIW, our greatest troubles early in marriage were finances as in not enough money. But we never considered divorce because of those troubles. Lot of troubles voiced on this site seem to be poor intimacy and/or adultery. Thankfully we never experienced either of those, which would have defaulted to divorce.

I would also tell them that if person they are considering has addictions or flaws, those wont get better from getting married. In fact the skeletons hid in their closet will all manifest after the wedding is over. For example, if a partner has intimacy hangups, those arent going to disappear after marriage. If they hit the bottle everytime they are stressed, marriage wont fix it.
 

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I would tell them to study the stats, there are lot of sources from UN, CDC, etc and decide for themselves if they feel lucky rolling the dice. I would also say if divorce is the default answer whenever problems arise (which they certainly will) probably best to stay single and just date.

FWIW, our greatest troubles early in marriage were finances as in not enough money. But we never considered divorce because of those troubles. Lot of troubles voiced on this site seem to be poor intimacy and/or adultery. Thankfully we never experienced either of those, which would have defaulted to divorce.

I would also tell them that if person they are considering has addictions or flaws, those wont get better from getting married. In fact the skeletons hid in their closet will all manifest after the wedding is over. For example, if a partner has intimacy hangups, those arent going to disappear after marriage. If they hit the bottle everytime they are stressed, marriage wont fix it.
I would say divorce shouldn't be the default answer but look around the site. It's just my observation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I would say divorce shouldn't be the default answer but look around the site. It's just my observation.
There was a change we both made about 5 years in that made all of the difference in our marriage and our lives. Not allowed to say what it was here, and most wouldnt receive it if I did. Without that change, we both believe we would have been divorced.
 

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There was a change we both made about 5 years in that made all of the difference in our marriage and our lives. Not allowed to say what it was here, and most wouldnt receive it if I did. Without that change, we both believe we would have been divorced.
Well when I first came I thought that I might have something to offer couples who have trouble as I have a great marriage and have had for 27 years. We have weathered so many 'storms' but we don't fight or let those things put space between us. We have more sex than when we got married.

Then I realized so many of these relationships are between incompatible people not interested in their spouse or marriage. I laugh at some of the views of healthy relationships and how you should treat your spouse. So I guess my model doesn't work for people 10 years in married to someone they really don't like and has not interest in treating with respect.
 

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Well when I first came I thought that I might have something to offer couples who have trouble as I have a great marriage and have had for 27 years. We have weathered so many 'storms' but we don't fight or let those things put space between us. We have more sex than when we got married.

Then I realized so many of these relationships are between incompatible people not interested in their spouse or marriage. I laugh at some of the views of healthy relationships and how you should treat your spouse. So I guess my model doesn't work for people 10 years in married to someone they really don't like and has not interest in treating with respect.
Bullseye. There are definitely different attitudes and cultures about marriage here. Those differences are often responsible for comments that others perceive as arguments. They're not. They're expressions of different opinions. I could never imagine doing with my spouse what @Cici1990 and her spouse did when she was 24. However, they were into it, it apparently had not lingering effects, so who's to complain? She's in a different generation than I am. Do I think those attitudes may cause serious problems down the road. Yep. However, some of the stupid stuff I did when I was 24 is causing problems at my age. (I suffer with RJ.)

These younger people here are probably grossed out over our discussions of sex at our age, but don't assume there's no fire in the furnace just because there's snow on the roof. I hope that they will get to our ages and have the same positive experiences we're having (without all of the negative experiences it took to get here.) I'm an expert in some things, but the opposite sex is NOT one of those things.
 

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Maybe I read these statistics to say that after age 50, 1% of those married divorce in a typical year, So with life expected to last ~30 years after 50 the total probability would be 30%,
No, it would be 26%.

At the end of year 1, 99% are still married. At the end of year 2, 99% of that 99% is still married. etc, etc, at the end of 30 years, .99^30 = .7397% are still married, meaning 26.03% got divorced
 

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Marriage statistics are like opinions. Everyone has one none of them match up perfectly. El has a great article how the common stats cited are wrong.

I do think the rate of divorce and the rate of reconciliation are misrepresented on this site just because most of the people here are divorced and didn't reconcile so they assume that is the way it is all the time. I know plenty of people who aren't divorced and plenty who are.
 

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I think the “divorce them” advice is higher here because let’s face it...if you’re down to Googling your issues and seeking advice from internet strangers, you’re probably near the end of the proverbial rope.


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No, it would be 26%.

At the end of year 1, 99% are still married. At the end of year 2, 99% of that 99% is still married. etc, etc, at the end of 30 years, .99^30 = .7397% are still married, meaning 26.03% got divorced
Assuming independent variables (no repeat divorces, for instance).
 
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