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Discussion Starter #21
Yes.

I'd leave the relationship about the short and fat comment, alone. Said to another woman? No ****ing way. Nope.
I know, that really stung. I felt like he was throwing me under the bus, subtly trying to signal to her that he does not find me attractive. I mean, it may be true! But in the context of the conversation they were having I could see no good reason at all why he needed to say that about me to another woman.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I will disagree with you, especially in the face of the fact that I know monogamous people who would not call this crossing the line.Even among the monogamous there are people who flirt just to flirt and their spouses are fine with it. And of course there are those couples where the one flirts just to flirt, and the spouse says nothing but isn't fine. But if they say nothing then it's on them, not the flirter.
I can kind of see what you're saying, it's not like he's never flirted mildly with someone else and I haven't been phased. But this has gone beyond that.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Thanks so much for replying. I had my own thoughts on whether he has crossed the line here - i.e. yes, SO far over it - but I didn't want to lead anyone to reply the same way. I think it's worth noting that there is no way on earth that he would ever accept me behaving like this with another man.

I still haven't said anything. I keep going over in my head, how to do it. Ironically, today is our wedding anniversary and I don't want to taint it forever (assuming that he doesn't do something like choose her and leave) so that in future years this is all it's associated with. I'm trying hard to hold it together but this hurts. It really hurts.

Strangely, their chats have gone from every day, multiple times daily, to nothing over the last few days. I'm not sure if he somehow knows I have seen them and I am suspicious that they have moved to holding their mutual ego-stroking fests another way that I can't keep an eye on so easily.

I just don't know how to go about this. I mean, in theory, I do. But when it comes to the thought of actually doing something I baulk at it. It feels too much, too difficult. I suppose it's because I know there's a chance this may mean the end of my marriage and once the can is open and the worms are everywhere there'll be no stuffing them back in. I don't know if I can expect that he will say, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was hurting you, of course I'll stop, or whether he'll deny, minimise and refuse to cut contact. If he does that I only have two choices; to end things myself, which I don't WANT to have to do, or do nothing and watch this thing die a death by a thousand cuts while I get eaten up with jealousy. What a choice. But maybe I'm just catastrophising. I mean I don't know what's going to happen.
 

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[QUOTE="lj2932, post: 20159354, member: 345368"

I just don't know how to go about this. I mean, in theory, I do. But when it comes to the thought of actually doing something I baulk at it. It feels too much, too difficult. I suppose it's because I know there's a chance this may mean the end of my marriage and once the can is open and the worms are everywhere there'll be no stuffing them back in. I don't know if I can expect that he will say, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was hurting you, of course I'll stop, or whether he'll deny, minimise and refuse to cut contact. If he does that I only have two choices; to end things myself, which I don't WANT to have to do, or do nothing and watch this thing die a death by a thousand cuts while I get eaten up with jealousy. What a choice. But maybe I'm just catastrophising. I mean I don't know what's going to happen.
[/QUOTE]

This type of thing is never easy, but I found this forum to be very helpful. Though people tell you things you may not want to hear, but when you read back later as I did you realize how spot-on some of them are. One thing that really helped me during my bad days. It's called subconscious writing

Get a note pad or exercise book and a pen. Make sure you will not be interrupted and don't think just write and write, more like scrawl it's like word vomiting whatever comes into your head. The idea is not re-read it back but to let your mind help you resolve thoughts and fears. It's very helpful. Just don't try and control what you write, that won't work. Let everything pour out of your heart and mind onto the page. You don't need to look at it again but things should become clearer for you. I hope this helps with the stress and anxiety.
 

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Hmmm so what you are saying is that most of us that have found our other half cheating we should have told them all of the scenarios in which we feel it is cheating? I think where you are slightly confused with things is some light flirting with the barista etc would be ok in most relationships but suggestive texting with cucumbers, mocking your wife, and hinting for pics is totally fine! The woman shows very poor boundaries, sending this guy a photo of her daughters naked back to start with and he is being cruel to his wife behind her back. How is that ok? Maybe in your world but I'm thinking not in most unless you have some sort of prior arrangement which I'm sensing the OP does not.
First, you threw in the most, not me. Please don't try to misrepresent what I am saying. What I am saying is that there is a lot of difference between people as to what means what. We have people on here that even light flirting is the equivalent to cheating. And that is before we look at things like perception, where one person might call certain actions as flirting, and other would not. My point is that too often people are making claims of cheating or at least dishonesty as if there were some kind of universal standard, which there is not.
 

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I can kind of see what you're saying, it's not like he's never flirted mildly with someone else and I haven't been phased. But this has gone beyond that.
I can only go by what you put here, and I try not to make leaps to conclusions. Even if there was nothing going on, the comments about your body were over the top. The more you put out, the more I am shifting away from my initial cautionary stance, but I still try to account for perspective. Lord knows I have often mistaken what others are doing because of my mindset. I won't say you are or are not, only that I take such into account, since I am working from limited information.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I can only go by what you put here, and I try not to make leaps to conclusions. Even if there was nothing going on, the comments about your body were over the top. The more you put out, the more I am shifting away from my initial cautionary stance, but I still try to account for perspective. Lord knows I have often mistaken what others are doing because of my mindset. I won't say you are or are not, only that I take such into account, since I am working from limited information.
It's always good to hear a different perspective, I didn't just want to be asking about this in an echo chamber. I can assure you that I considered what you said quite carefully and appreciated the input as with everyone else who has replied to me. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
One thing that really helped me during my bad days. It's called subconscious writing

Get a note pad or exercise book and a pen. Make sure you will not be interrupted and don't think just write and write, more like scrawl it's like word vomiting whatever comes into your head. The idea is not re-read it back but to let your mind help you resolve thoughts and fears. It's very helpful. Just don't try and control what you write, that won't work. Let everything pour out of your heart and mind onto the page. You don't need to look at it again but things should become clearer for you. I hope this helps with the stress and anxiety.
Thank you for reminding me of this. It's something I used to do first thing every morning after reading a book by Julia Cameron called The Artist's Way but for some reason, at some point I stopped. I should reread that book.
 

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Chatting with the OW probably stopped because you found out. Your H is letting it cool off or they have taken it under ground communicating a different way.

As far as what to do and your not sure...you are putting yourself out of your safe zone. It is a uncertain path coming. You can make the path certain by taking charge of the issue. Talk to a lawyer. See what D will look like is a good place to start.
 

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Not only he crossed the line but he disrespected you talking about you to his “ friend”. I am sorry that you had to read those words. :(
 

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@lj2932 Ot's very noble of your husband to be a knight in shining armour for that woman. Really lovely, and all that. But... what about you, his wife?

He needs to remember that as well as a knight in shining armour, he is also a husband. Your husband.

 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
So, I've seen a couple more messages. They have been talking on Whatsapp but I can't get into that, he has a PIN on it. Anyway, there's really just no point continuing to look because they have a secure chat on messenger and you can send messages on there that just delete themselves after a certain time, so I would just never know.

One of the messages, he is talking about an activity I'm not mad about him doing but have let him do anyway and have even helped him with at times and he is obviously telling her I'm stopping him from doing it because he says I'm being so stubborn about it that it would be quicker to divorce me. :mad:

I mean, really. Just why. Why does he feel the need to sow that seed in her mind.

Not even sure WHAT I'm feeling at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
So, I've seen a couple more messages. They have been talking on Whatsapp but I can't get into that, he has a PIN on it. Anyway, there's really just no point continuing to look because they have a secure chat on messenger and you can send messages on there that just delete themselves after a certain time, so I would just never know.

One of the messages, he is talking about an activity I'm not mad about him doing but have let him do anyway and have even helped him with at times (not sexual, don't worry, and he is obviously telling her I'm stopping him from doing it because he says I'm being so stubborn about it that it would be quicker to divorce me. :mad:

I mean, really. Just why. Why does he feel the need to sow that seed in her mind.

Not even sure WHAT I'm feeling at this point.
Oh god, that bit where it says not sexual should have been edited out! The way I worded it the first time I'd kind of managed to make it sound suspiciously like sexual coercion, which it is not! Please ignore that. :rolleyes:
 

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Oh god, that bit where it says not sexual should have been edited out! The way I worded it the first time I'd kind of managed to make it sound suspiciously like sexual coercion, which it is not! Please ignore that. :rolleyes:
Click the 3 dots on the top right of your post to edit.
 

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Who knows if he actually means the things he tells her or if they’re just a tactic to draw her in and keep her interested. If you asked him, he’d deny there was anything to it but at minimum he’s working himself into a full-blown EA.
 

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Oh wow... Reading your story. TERRIBLE!!!

So much in there is just BS, and you shouldn't have to be treated so disrespectfully by him. Clearly he's having an EA. I've watched these things turn into more (my exH was serial cheater) and while it may not, he's crossed the line.

Personally, I'd pull away emotionally to protect myself and seek counseling for your own pain in all this. Gas lighting is used by many a sneaky liar who doesn't want to be found out and wants to shift the blame. Protect your mind, soul, and heart and journal/ document what you find and see so you can remind yourself later that you weren't imagining things being as bad as they are. And you might want to have a session with an attorney to make sure if he throws that D word around again, you're prepared!!

No excuses for his behavior!! He's wrong.
I'm sorry. So sorry for how you must be feeling. Just remember, what we allow, we will get from them.

Don't allow this garbage! You're better than that!! ♥♥
 

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Not even sure WHAT I'm feeling at this point.
What you have going on here is most likely an emotional affair and your husband is likely unaware at how hurtful it is towards you. Generally speaking it can sometimes be challenging to tell the difference between harmless/playful conversations between friends and that of a sexually charged communication that tends to pull one away from their spouse. Everyone grows up learning to be flirtatious and sometimes it is just a natural instinct to enjoy making others laugh or smile. Then someone starts to enjoy that a little too much and gets a sense of euphoria from it. Then before you know it, you have a serious problem.

Awkwardly, most emotional affairs serve as some form of "escape" from daily stress and life. Kind of like two people driving cars with engine problems and making each other laugh about it. At the end of the day, both have serious problems and escaping from that only serves to make problems worse. "OMG Ha ha ha look at that big ball of smoke that just came out of my car, and are those bolts and metal fragments falling from my engine WTF HAHAHA!" At some point the joy ride is over and the reality of having to address problems will be very sobering.

The good news is that it can feel good in relationships to work on problems. You have to come from a place of being patient and asking for help. Try to avoid coming from a place of anger and accusations.

A few tips:
  • A really yummy meal together is a great place to start a conversation
  • Try to exercise together
  • Never underestimate a back rub
  • Aroma therapy helps (as in try some new fabric softeners of bath soaps to create new and fresh smells as this will trigger a sense of something new in the relationship)
  • Try new recipes (subscribe to one of those online meal services that deliver easy to cook meal plans as they will force you and your husband to learn new flavors in the kitchen)
  • Read books on how to improve your marriage
Whenever your husband is chatting with this online friend, do some subtle passive aggressive things to make him uncomfortable while soothing yourself knowing the chat will be uncomfortable for him:
  • Turn off the A/C
  • Do something that smells very foul nearby (burn some microwave popcorn)
  • Create noise pollution (start vacuuming)
  • Sneak up behind him and pour a small container of ants in his hair
You and your relationship will be better in no time!

Cheers,
Badsanta
 
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