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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some other threads have been picking at the edges of this topic. I'd like to promote it to a full discussion.

Were you or have you been married to a sexually ultra-conservative spouse? How did you manage to come out of your shell, or what did you do to get your spouse to open up? I don't want to drill down into the details of any one act or behavior, since what I'm looking for is really not one act or fantasy but a more open overall attitude towards sex. To frame the argument, here's the current situation with my wife -

She truly enjoys sex at about the once-a-week frequency. She's highly and easily orgasmic - nearly every time, and in the past multi-orgasmic, though that's waned in recent years. She understands the necessity of sex in an intimate relationship. But her definition of what constitutes acceptable sex is, shall we say, somewhat limited:

Sex is by definition PIV, face-to-face
Foreplay FTMP does not allow touching of breasts or her genitals
Toys are largely unacceptable with the exception of a vibrating c*ck ring that can be worn during PIV. Anything not used during PIV is disallowed.
Oral sex from either partner is so disgusting as to be unthinkable
Erotica is uninteresting at best.

Over the years, the small victories she likes to champion as her willingness to change include things like allowing a light on in the room during sex.

Suggestions for "taking it slow" in other threads include things that I have tried and primarily failed with. Showering together was politely but permanently declined. We live on a couple of acres our in the middle of nowhere, but a sexy picnic in the trees is too risque. A good friend hosts "Passion parties", which she has attended and made the scandalous purchase of massage lotion.

I have recently been more forceful in trying to expand our sexual repertoire, and have had a few small boundaries expanded, but these all feel like Pyrrhic victories in that they are tolerated at best, never enjoyed, and don't translate into anything beyond momentary acquiescence to a demand.

There are those of you out there who claim to have found the way out of this view of sexuality. What ultimately was the trigger? How did you change your mind?
 

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My wife is very conservative as well. She usually has a litany of excuses as to why she doesn't do certain things. Passionate kissing? It's too gross unless we both have JUST brushed our teeth. Oral on me? My penis is too big for her mouth (this may be true). Oral on her? Acceptable assuming she has showered within the last hour or two. Sexual positions? Missionary and doggie style. That's it. Toys? We have some that I insisted we buy (hoping it would spark things up), and they sit unused for the most part.

For reference, my wife is 26 and we have two kids. We're both in great shape and pretty much look like we did when we first met. She hasn't really changed since we first met either. This is pretty much always how it's been. There is no history of abuse, or anything like that. She is just generally grossed out by most sexual activities.

I have been successful in two ways with her when it comes to getting her to open and do more. 1) Totally deny her everything. But not in a pouty, complaining way. I will just get "busy with life". Passion with her falls by the wayside and I don't ask for anything. After awhile, she picks up the slack for a few days. I think she feels threatened when things go like this for a few days. 2) Alcohol. My wife doesn't drink often, but when she does, this whole new person comes out. Inhibitions disappear, and passionate times are had by all. When I ask her about it the next day, and tell her how fun it was, she says something along the lines of "it's a once in awhile thing". An argument ensues if I press for it to become a "regular" thing.

Good luck to you, sir. I would love to learn some secrets if there are any. My advice is denial for a few days, and alcohol. That's the best I have for you.
 

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Pretty much in the same boat as you... sex im my marrage when I ahve it is pretty much the same every time. She prefers to be on top, and occasionally she will like missionary after she O's. Oral is pretty much out with the rare BJ if I bug her enough for it. That is it. I have asked, tried other things, but she will either say no, or complain how "uncomfortable/awkard" it is. Oral on her use to happen occasionally, but now it out of the question it is "too gross". I do wish it would change, just have not figured out how to get it to happen.
 

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Makes me think of a quote I heard once... "men lead lives of quiet desperation". Only appropriate because the posts so far are all from men though there are plenty of women who feel the same way. My situation is not as severe as any of this but I can relate. I will never understand how you can love someone and yet be so unresponsive to their needs/wants.
 

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I think, if you try to explore with the things she is comfortable with, you may find she is more willing to open up to other things, if even just a little. If she really only likes PIV, then try all the positions you can find. Expand that to using different furniture or "swings". Make your very best effort toward her "satisfaction". Hope you find a way for both of you to be happy. I haven't followed your situation, but was hoping to help a little with suggestions. I don't know what you have tried.
 

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SA will be along shortly to answer this one!
 

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Hello Cletus, You are an excellent writer. Something about your writing style and choice of words I found very readable and enjoyable. Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, I'm guessing that you've probably tried every suggestion people here could possibly think of , but I'll throw out a few. Have you tried a sex game, or getting a sex book of new positions, or tell you that you'd like to try new things and read these books in bed together, and tell her a new thing you've read that you'd like to try. I had some inhibitions (still do) but I was brave enough to express some of them on a weekend away at a lover's only resort that had a pool, hot tub, porn on TV. It was sex all weekend long. Would she do it/try it because it makes you happy, although I have to say, when I asked my husband to play 'pleasure island' which involved very light B&D (blindfolding - which we did with a sock), I know that he just humored me and didn't really enjoy it himself. But we tried other things during that weekend and still do them back at home.
 

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I think when you talk too much about sex from the get-go, you screw yourself over. Some of the things i have done in bed/do in bed i would have thought were crazy or terrible if my husband asked me about it. Why not just hop into bed and do what feels good and natural.

Im prob over simplifying this....but to me it is simple. If it is your spouse....then nothing is "gross" IMO
 
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I agree with missymrs80. When she's really into it, getting close, why not try something simple like just flipping her over and trying it doggy style? If you think she wouldn't react well to you taking control in that way, you could just ask her. People agree to all kinds of things when they're in the heat of the moment.
 

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The basic method that I have used (but not on someone as inhibited as your wife) is a three step.

1) Get her really aroused and horny first. This part is critical.
2) Do what she is comfortable with. Missionary PIV in this case.
3) Do what she is uncomfortable with. It should be something easy to switch to. Doggy style might even be too big of a leap. Maybe try holding both feet by the ankles so her legs are straight in the air and bang her that way for a while. Or take both of her wrists in one hand and hold them above her head firmly while your doing it. Dominate her *a little bit*. Anything to kind of shake up the routine a little bit without sending her into shock.

The challenge is, you have to risk ruining the good sex you are having in order to have great sex. If you make sure she is really aroused, and don't go for too big of a leap in step 3, it normally works. Then you can incorporate that move into your regular repertoire. It's up to you to burn it into the regular routine by doing it frequently. The key is to take small steps and make sure the experience is positive for her.

But she might get mad at you for trying something different. Don't be afraid of that. If it does turn into a fight, stand your ground. You didn't do anything wrong, trying something new in the sack is not a crime. If it turns into a big fight and she uses her alleged accomplishments (allowing the light to be on for example) against you, just say it's not enough. You expect more. That is not a crime either as long as your expectations are fairly modest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks all for the suggestions. Many I've tried, a few I haven't, and I'll ponder the possibilities.
 

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What worked for my wife was talking. She kind of looked at sex as an optional hobby of sorts. When I was able to (lovingly and gently) let her know this was more than a hobby to me but a psychological and almost physiological need for me she began to understand. I had tried a lot of things to get her to "see the light" regarding my sexual needs but what finally worked was just talking to her about them.

Also just getting her to try something once also worked. My wife was totally against my desire to go to a naturist resort. I told her to just try it once see what the atmosphere was like and if she didn't like it she didn't have to undress and we'd never go back.

Now she asks when we can go again. Your mileage may vary but sometimes it's as easy as letting them know your needs and why. So you have to understand your needs too. And sometimes it's just getting them (in a gentle and loving way) to try something new and see if they like it. And reassuring them that it's okay to like it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello Cletus, You are an excellent writer. Something about your writing style and choice of words I found very readable and enjoyable. Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, I'm guessing that you've probably tried every suggestion people here could possibly think of , but I'll throw out a few. Have you tried a sex game, or getting a sex book of new positions, or tell you that you'd like to try new things and read these books in bed together, and tell her a new thing you've read that you'd like to try. I had some inhibitions (still do) but I was brave enough to express some of them on a weekend away at a lover's only resort that had a pool, hot tub, porn on TV. It was sex all weekend long. Would she do it/try it because it makes you happy, although I have to say, when I asked my husband to play 'pleasure island' which involved very light B&D (blindfolding - which we did with a sock), I know that he just humored me and didn't really enjoy it himself. But we tried other things during that weekend and still do them back at home.
Thank you, you're too kind.

The "home remedies" have been applied liberally and failed just as spectacularly. I brought "101 Nights of Great Sex", and she found something like four that sounded acceptable. It's much more than a lack of imagination.

Were you just inhibited about sex or did you find large portions of it disgusting or somehow wrong? Were you overcoming simple disinterest, aversion, guilt, or embarrassment?

I have not tried the lover's resort. I'm afraid that if I did, you'd never hear from me alive again.
 

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I am going to add one more piece of knowledge here. If you are going to see meaningful, enduring change, the change process will start fairly early in the sexual relationship.

IME, you typically get one of three following scenarios:

1) She is open and comfortably with you sexually from the beginning, and your relationship reflects that.

2) She is timid at first but warms up fairly quickly, so that within several weeks to a couple of months you guys are on your way to that open relationship you seek.

3) She is not motivated to lose her inhibitions and you settle into a vanilla (and often unsatisfying) sexual routine early on.

Generally, a situation where a lady opens up after several years of inhibition is very rare. In can happen (as SA will personally attest) but in IMO the odds of that happening are so low as to be negligible.

My rule of thumb is if, after six months, there hasn't been an upward trend, assume it is as good as it ever will be and decide whether that is enough. If it is, consider anything better a bonus and don't continue to push. She has a low sex threshold and will come to resent attempts to spice things up.

If is not good enough to satisfy over the long term, start getting your exit strategy ready.

ETA: I really don't think you can chip away at someone else's inhibitions or "bring someone out of their shell". The person has to want to lose those inhibitions, and whether they are willing to put in the work to do so will become evident very early in the sexual relationship.
 

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I am going to add one more piece of knowledge here. If you are going to see meaningful, enduring change, the change process will start fairly early in the sexual relationship.

IME, you typically get one of three following scenarios:

1) She is open and comfortably with you sexually from the beginning, and your relationship reflects that.

2) She is timid at first but warms up fairly quickly, so that within several weeks to a couple of months you guys are on your way to that open relationship you seek.

3) She is not motivated to lose her inhibitions and you settle into a vanilla (and often unsatisfying) sexual routine early on.

Generally, a situation where a lady opens up after several years of inhibition is very rare. In can happen (as SA will personally attest) but in IMO the odds of that happening are so low as to be negligible.

My rule of thumb is if, after six months, there hasn't been an upward trend, assume it is as good as it ever will be and decide whether that is enough. If it is, consider anything better a bonus and don't continue to push. She has a low sex threshold and will come to resent attempts to spice things up.

If is not good enough to satisfy over the long term, start getting your exit strategy ready.

ETA: I really don't think you can chip away at someone else's inhibitions or "bring someone out of their shell". The person has to want to lose those inhibitions, and whether they are willing to put in the work to do so will become evident very early in the sexual relationship.
I tend to agree with you overall but I am a little more hopeful for the OP. It works better at the beginning of the relationship because she is eager to impress and please you because the ongoing relationship is not a given. But she will find that she enjoys doing those things that were previously outside the comfort zone.

Once she starts taking you for granted then there is no motivation to get outside of her comfort zone, even though she might enjoy it if she did.

Approaches like the MAP work by making her stop taking you for granted, making her want sex with you in order to cement the emotional bond and to keep you from running off with someone else. Just as it can be used to get more sex, it can be used to get better sex.

What I am saying is that the beginning period of the relationship is not magical except for the fact that is the time when she is most motivated to sex you really good, by your definition, in order to lock you in to a relationship. I think this can be done later on as well, but it requires a willingness to upend the status quo and put the relationship into some amount of chaos.
 

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My wife and I actually went to one of those toy parties together and that opened things up a little.

I think its all about communication.
 

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I tend to agree with you overall but I am a little more hopeful for the OP. It works better at the beginning of the relationship because she is eager to impress and please you because the ongoing relationship is not a given. But she will find that she enjoys doing those things that were previously outside the comfort zone.

Once she starts taking you for granted then there is no motivation to get outside of her comfort zone, even though she might enjoy it if she did.

Approaches like the MAP work by making her stop taking you for granted, making her want sex with you in order to cement the emotional bond and to keep you from running off with someone else. Just as it can be used to get more sex, it can be used to get better sex.

What I am saying is that the beginning period of the relationship is not magical except for the fact that is the time when she is most motivated to sex you really good, by your definition, in order to lock you in to a relationship. I think this can be done later on as well, but it requires a willingness to upend the status quo and put the relationship into some amount of chaos.
Well, the first thing is that if she is failing to do something she would enjoy at the outset, that is not an inhibition. Rather, that is a power play or sh!t test.

That being said, I don't disagree with your approach to these issues. I did a 180 / NMMNG thing and agree it's a great way to drive change. But, it often fails for an understandable reason.

My take is that when you successfully implement that program, your spouse did not necessarily overcome the inhibition in the sense of that activity now being an enjoyable part of sex. I feel that - sometimes - lasting change reflects a partner who "sucks it up" because that is better than the alternative. And, of course, that program can fail to improve the sex because the spouse weighs the pros and cons of "sucking it up" differently.

To clarify - there's nothing wrong with a person making that sacrifice for his or her spouse. In fact, I feel that an inhibition allowed to cause marital strife has become a phobia, which by definition is irrational and needs to be corrected. I'm just noting that "overcoming" is more than just "tolerating", which is often what you get with a MAP, 180, etc.
 

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Well, the first thing is that if she is failing to do something she would enjoy at the outset, that is not an inhibition. Rather, that is a power play or sh!t test.

That being said, I don't disagree with your approach to these issues. I did a 180 / NMMNG thing and agree it's a great way to drive change. But, it often fails for an understandable reason.

My take is that when you successfully implement that program, your spouse did not necessarily overcome the inhibition in the sense of that activity now being an enjoyable part of sex. I feel that - sometimes - lasting change reflects a partner who "sucks it up" because that is better than the alternative. And, of course, that program can fail to improve the sex because the spouse weighs the pros and cons of "sucking it up" differently.

To clarify - there's nothing wrong with a person making that sacrifice for his or her spouse. In fact, I feel that an inhibition allowed to cause marital strife has become a phobia, which by definition is irrational and needs to be corrected. I'm just noting that "overcoming" is more than just "tolerating", which is often what you get with a MAP, 180, etc.
Well no one said that those programs work 100% of the time. It just happens to be the best course of action in a lot of situations.

Also I don't think that getting your wife to tolerate sex with you is the goal of running the MAP. In fact I think that if that is what happens you are doing it wrong. The goal is to attract your spouse. Attract means that they want to have sex with you because it feels good for them. Not that they are coerced into giving it up more frequently.
 
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