[jaquen]

I'm sorry, but it just needs to be said.

There are so many absolutely wonderful people on this forum. People who love their husbands and wives, people who work to please them, and validate them as human beings.

But there is a prevailing attitude here that it's OK to have to put in constant work for sex. I see people giving advice regularly on what buttons to push to "get" your spouse to sleep with you. People telling you to shower these stingy spouses with compliments, praises, help around the house, etc, all in a bid to squeeze a few drops of sex out of them every once in a while.

Stop. That is NOT what marriage is suppose to be like. Vital to a healthy marriage is the understanding that BOTH parties involved want to screw the other, and do it at relatively comparable paces. The existence of marriage is partially about eliminating the need to search for, and work constantly at, finding a suitable lover. If you need to work at it, then don't get married.

Marriage entitles you to regular, fulfilling sex with your husband or wife. That is a basic RIGHT of marriage, not a privilege, and not a favor. If your spouse is making you feel like sex is a reward or an optional thing, they are WRONG. You DO deserve better.

Baring any deep physiological or psychological issues, if your partner has decided to refuse you sex, and no matter what you do to express how much that hurts you they still won't budge, it's time to put that foot down and tell them that they need to engage with you, or it's time to discuss exit strategies.

Please do NOT waste another year, another decade, a life time, in a cold bed with an unwilling, unfullfilling, ungrateful, dead fish spouse!

 

[CleanJerkSnatch]

There is plenty truth in the post, I am glad the w knows my needs and takes them into CONSIDERATION lol. A marriage revolving around sex isn't a fulfilling and satisfying marriage. As sex is an integral part to marriage and connection etc, the relationship should be beyond sex alone (family, child baring etc). I also understand that it can never be done at my command, getting to that level plane of thinking with your spouse is tough if you're not already there.

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with your post to a point. Marriage, all facets of it, take work and I believe that that includes the sexual aspect of marriage. I believe that sex is an important aspect of marriage and, where physically and mentally possible, it should be taking place. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't take work.

As for working to get sex, I'm a bit confused. If you mean that Spouse A won't have sex with Spouse B until Spouse B does xyz, then yeah, I agree that that is very wrong. However, there's nothing wrong with a husband or wife doing nice things for their spouse and getting sex after that. My husband bought me three sets of pearl earrings a few weeks ago. He heard me say that I love pearls and haven't owned any real pearl jewelry before. He came home with a dozen roses, put them in a circle on the table, and placed the jewelry box on top of the roses. I opened it, and there were three gorgeous pairs of pearl earrings.

You don't think he got crazy hot sex for that?

Just last week he secretly set up a spa appointment for me to get a pedicure with a thirty minute foot and lower leg massage, a facial and to have my eyebrows waxed. He payed for it and everything, then told me about it the day before, so all I had to do was show up and get pampered. Unfortunately I got sick this weekend, but once I'm better, he's DEFINITELY getting sex for that too! lol.

I see nothing wrong in this. He knows I love to be pampered in all kinds of ways. I'd just as soon take a love letter written by him, and a meal cooked at home with maybe a surprise bottle of Beringer White Zinfandel...and he'd get sex for those too. Now, that doesn't mean I don't or won't have sex unless I get something romantic, which I think was more what you meant. But I just wanted to clarify that sex CAN be seen as a "reward" and it not be a bad thing. When it's only seen as a reward and nothing else, then I agree with you...something is wrong there.

 

[jaquen]

As for working to get sex, I'm a bit confused. If you mean that Spouse A won't have sex with Spouse B until Spouse B does xyz, then yeah, I agree that that is very wrong.

That is exactly what I mean.

 

[southern wife]

What men need to know if that sex starts with making love to the woman's mind. Not "hey honey, wanna have sex?" If he has to ask for sex, he'll get turned down!

If he's loving to her outside of the bedroom, touches her, compliments her.........then things just might heat up IN the bedroom.

 

[jaquen]

What men need to know if that sex starts with making love to the woman's mind. Not "hey honey, wanna have sex?" If he has to ask for sex, he'll get turned down!

If he's loving to her outside of the bedroom, touches her, compliments her.........then things just might heat up IN the bedroom.

I don't believe in this. I do romantic things for my wife because I love her, and I want to express that to her. I have never, not even once, bought her a gift, or done something for her, with the expectation that things "might" heat up in the bedroom. I don't even have a language for that.

I don't believe in being constantly turned down, nor does my wife. Sure both of us are comfortable saying no, but the yeses far outweigh the noes. And we have sex because we enjoy making love to one another, connecting for the sake of sexual gratification, and emotional/spiritual release. Neither one of us acts a certain way outside the bedroom with the expectation that this "might" get us laid. There is no such thing as "things just might" in my marriage. The language is "things almost always will".

 

[Created2Write]

I don't believe in this. I do romantic things for my wife because I love her, and I want to express that to her. I have never, not even once, bought her a gift, or done something for her, with the expectation that things "might" heat up in the bedroom. I don't even have a language for that.

Okay, I'm not trying to argue...I'm merely trying to clarify and understand what you're saying. I'm a woman, and any insight to how my husband might work would be of great help.

You say that you don't do things for your wife because things "might" heat up in the bedroom...Do you do things for her because you know they will heat up? Or do you do things for her without any thought of sex at all?

I don't believe in being constantly turned down, nor does my wife. Sure both of us are comfortable saying no, but the yeses far out way the noes. And we have sex because we enjoying making love to one another, connecting for the sake of sexual gratification, and emotional/spiritual release. Neither one of us acts a certain way outside the bedroom with the expectation that this "might" get us laid. There is no such thing as "things just might" in my marriage. The language is "things almost always will".

That's really awesome to hear.

 

[momtwo4]

I'm sorry, but it just needs to be said.

There are so many absolutely wonderful people on this forum. People who love their husbands and wives, people who work to please them, and validate them as human beings.

But there is a prevailing attitude here that it's OK to have to put in constant work for sex. I see people giving advice regularly on what buttons to push to "get" your spouse to sleep with you. People telling you to shower these stingy spouses with compliments, praises, help around the house, etc, all in a bid to squeeze a few drops of sex out of them every once in a while.

Stop. That is NOT what marriage is suppose to be like. Vital to a healthy marriage is the understanding that BOTH parties involved want to screw the other, and do it at relatively comparable paces. The existence of marriage is partially about eliminating the need to search for, and work constantly at, finding a suitable lover. If you need to work at it, then don't get married.

Marriage entitles you to regular, fulfilling sex with your husband or wife. That is a basic RIGHT of marriage, not a privilege, and not a favor. If your spouse is making you feel like sex is a reward or an optional thing, they are WRONG. You DO deserve better.

Baring any deep physiological or psychological issues, if your partner has decided to refuse you sex, and no matter what you do to express how much that hurts you they still won't budge, it's time to put that foot down and tell them that they need to engage with you, or it's time to discuss exit strategies.

Please do NOT waste another year, another decade, a life time, in a cold bed with an unwilling, unfullfilling, ungrateful, dead fish spouse!

This could be taken both ways, Jaquen. It's just not that simple. If you want to talk about it that way, there are other "rights" in marriage as well. You are also "entitled" to be cherished, respected, and honored. This means different things for different people depending on their love language. For some, this might mean words of affirmation, for others it might be acts of service (washing the dishes, folding laundry, etc...) So, if you are "entitled" to sex because it is your love language, your spouse is also "entitled" to acts of service because it is his/her language.

My point is that this attitude of entitlement/my right simply will not work in a marriage. You won't get closer to meaningful sex with your spouse with that attitude.

 

[southern wife]

I don't believe in this. I do romantic things for my wife because I love her, and I want to express that to her.

RIGHT!! And in return she wants to express love back to you! It keeps sexual energy alive.

I have never, not even once, bought her a gift, or done something for her, with the expectation that things "might" heat up in the bedroom. I don't even have a language for that.

I never said anything about buying gifts............but for women, sex starts before even going into the bedroom........it's more mental and emotional for us. The acutal sexual act is the "emotional connection" for men. Most men get their emotional needs met through sex; most women do not.

 

[jaquen]

Okay, I'm not trying to argue...I'm merely trying to clarify and understand what you're saying. I'm a woman, and any insight to how my husband might work would be of great help. You say that you don't do things for your wife because things "might" heat up in the bedroom...Do you do things for her because you know they will heat up? Or do you do things for her without any thought of sex at all?

Sex never crosses my mind when I do things for my wife. I have always made romantic gestures toward her, even when we were not in a sexual relationship. If I surprise her with a dinner I cooked, or a night out, gifts, flowers, if I write her a loving message, it's all just because. The thought that things could heat up as a result doesn't compute with me. One has nothing to do with another. These gestures existed when we weren't having sex during our celibacy, and exist still in the midst of, and independent of, our sex life.

The rate of sex does not increase with the rate of elevated romantic gestures.

This could be taken both ways, Jaquen. It's just not that simple. If you want to talk about it that way, there are other "rights" in marriage as well. You are also "entitled" to be cherished, respected, and honored. This means different things for different people depending on their love language. For some, this might mean words of affirmation, for others it might be acts of service (washing the dishes, folding laundry, etc...) So, if you are "entitled" to sex because it is your love language, your spouse is also "entitled" to acts of service because it is his/her language.

Absolutely. Did you read my OP though?

People who love their husbands and wives, people who work to please them, and validate them as human beings.

This thread isn't about being an ******* and a pig, and then still expecting regular sexual satisfaction. This advice is to people who are working like dogs to satisfy spouses who STILL treat sex like some kind of rare gift or privilege.

My point is that this attitude of entitlement/my right simply will not work in a marriage. You won't get closer to meaningful sex with your spouse with that attitude.

If you're a decent spouse, YES you absolutely are entitled to sex. Absolutely. If one of the basic rights of marriage isn't the expectation of having one's sexual needs filled, then why get married? Why not just stay friends, or platonic roommates?

 

[momtwo4]

Sex never crosses my mind when I do things for my wife. I have always made romantic gestures toward her, even when we were not in a sexual relationship. If I surprise her with a dinner I cooked, or a night out, gifts, flowers, if I write her a loving message, it's all just because. The thought that things could heat up as a result doesn't compute with me. One has nothing to do with another. These gestures existed when we weren't having sex during our celibacy, and exist still in the midst of, and independent of, our sex life.

The rate of sex does not increase with the rate of elevated romantic gestures.



Absolutely. Did you read my OP though?

People who love their husbands and wives, people who work to please them, and validate them as human beings.

This thread isn't about being an ******* and a pig, and then still expecting regular sexual satisfaction. This advice is to people who are working like dogs to satisfy spouses who STILL treat sex like some kind of rare gift or privilege.




If you're a decent spouse, YES you absolutely are entitled to sex. Absolutely. If one of the basic rights of marriage isn't the expectation of having one's sexual needs filled, then why get married? Why not just stay friends, or platonic roommates?

I don't disagree that sex is an important part of marriage, and that both spouses should realize that. What I don't like, is the word "entitled." Because that just turns sex into an obligation. Am I "entitled" to affection and love in my marriage? Most would probably argue that I am. But I don't want affection because it is "my right" or because I am "entitled" to it. I want it because it's freely given to me. I want it because my spouse gives it to me because it comes from his heart, his deepest core.

In marriage, any time you get into "entitlement" you are steering off course. Would you really want "entitled" sex any way? If you threaten your spouse, you might get more sex--at least for a while. They might offer fake enthusiasm and give you obligatory sex. But it can't last, and it's not authentic.

 

[Created2Write]

Sex never crosses my mind when I do things for my wife. I have always made romantic gestures toward her, even when we were not in a sexual relationship. If I surprise her with a dinner I cooked, or a night out, gifts, flowers, if I write her a loving message, it's all just because. The thought that things could heat up as a result doesn't compute with me. One has nothing to do with another. These gestures existed when we weren't having sex during our celibacy, and exist still in the midst of, and independent of, our sex life.

The rate of sex does not increase with the rate of elevated romantic gestures.

Interesting.

As a woman, I can say that my thinking is entirely different. Not better, just different. For me, the romantic gestures he does absolutely have to do with sex. I mean, to me it makes sense...when my husband does those things for me, as big or as small as they may be, it speaks to my heart...it makes me want to be closer to him. I feel safe, loved, cherished...and for me, those things are what speak to my...well, you know.

In the opposite way, if my husband has been snappy and rude to me all day, chances are I'm not going to feel inclined to make love with him.

Now, again, I don't need something drastically romantic every day to make love. Some times just the memory of recent romantic ventures is enough to rev my engine. And, sometimes it's just how he kisses me(and he is a really, really good kisser). But for me it is all is connected.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

my ex's first wife said she hated when he'd do nice,romantic things bc then she felt obligated to have sex with him.

 

[jaquen]

I don't disagree that sex is an important part of marriage, and that both spouses should realize that. What I don't like, is the word "entitled." Because that just turns sex into an obligation. Am I "entitled" to affection and love in my marriage? Most would probably argue that I am. But I don't want affection because it is "my right" or because I am "entitled" to it. I want it because it's freely given to me. I want it because my spouse gives it to me because it comes from his heart, his deepest core.

In marriage, any time you get into "entitlement" you are steering off course. Would you really want "entitled" sex any way? If you threaten your spouse, you might get more sex--at least for a while. They might offer fake enthusiasm and give you obligatory sex. But it can't last, and it's not authentic.

You are talking apples and oranges, and getting caught up in semantics.

You have a problem with the word "entitled". You make that synonymous with "obligations". Those words are not the same thing, at least from my perspective.

Children are "entitled" to food, clothing, shelter, and affection from their parents. The very fact that they were created, and brought into this world, "entitles" them to these basic necessities. It does not suggest that a parent is begrudgingly giving them that which they are "entitled" to have, these basic rights as children. Are there parents who look at their children as mere obligations, who begrudgingly take care of them? Sure, of course. However that doesn't change the fact that all children are "entitled" to these basic rights from their parents or guardians.

Sex within the confines of a marriage is no different than that. My wife IS "entitled" to sex from me. Because I married into a SEXUAL union as well as a psychological/emotional/financial/spiritual union. Her being "entitled" to have sex is absolutely no different than her being "entitled" to love, affection, and caring. I don't make love to my wife because I am obligated, but regardless of whether I feel obligated or not, by the very fact that she is my WIFE she is "entitled" to sexual gratification. The concepts are not mutually exclusive. She is both "entitled" to sex AND I desire to give her sex, not out of obligation, or her sense of entitlement, but because I want to.

If such a time comes that I begin chronically refusing her right to be sexually satisfied, and have no plans to change this course, she has ever right to divorce my behind and find someone else who is willing to fulfill the vows and give to her what she has the RIGHT to have.

 

[southern wife]

As a former LD woman,I have to admit the more my ex chased me for sex the more repulsed I became by him.On the outside we appeared sexually satiated and happy.On the inside,it was never enough for him.We did it a few times a week and when we weren't doing it he was panting after me like a rabid dog begging me for something anything...a hj,a bj,baby just touch it at least...UGH. I wanted to throw up watching him do that.

I'll never chase anyone like that for sex even though I consider myself HD these days and he shouldn't have done it either.

It's one thing to put forth effort to get your spouse in the mood it's quite another to lose your dignity and make a fool of yourself just to get your penis/vag rubbed a bit while your partner grows more and more disgusted every day at your desperation..til they get to the point where they don't want you at all.

I hope i don't get bashed for this! This is JUST my opinion and my own personal experience.

Makes total sense to me!

What caused your LD to become HD?

 

[Created2Write]

If you're a decent spouse, YES you absolutely are entitled to sex. Absolutely. If one of the basic rights of marriage isn't the expectation of having one's sexual needs filled, then why get married? Why not just stay friends, or platonic roommates?

I definitely agree with this. Someone mentioned being entitled to affection...um, yeah, spouses are entitled to affection. Spouses are also entitled to trust, respect, honesty, friendship....that doesn't mean trust or respect is demanded in the relationship, or that a spouse has the right to threaten the other if one of these things isn't being met. It's just a statement: in marriage spouses are entitled to sex with each other.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Makes total sense to me!

What caused your LD to become HD?

not being depressed anymore,confidence,learning to feel beautiful,learning how to be on my own and take care of myself...I truly blossomed when i got to be on my own and independent.I became insatiable sexually and remain that way to this day. I often wonder if there are more women like me out there,truly depressed bc they feel worthless at not being independent and always depending on their man for help.The empowerment of being on my own gave me the confidence to embrace the sexy stuff.

My current SO helped me a lot with my drive too.

 

[jaquen]

Interesting.

As a woman, I can say that my thinking is entirely different. Not better, just different. For me, the romantic gestures he does absolutely have to do with sex. I mean, to me it makes sense...when my husband does those things for me, as big or as small as they may be, it speaks to my heart...it makes me want to be closer to him. I feel safe, loved, cherished...and for me, those things are what speak to my...well, you know.

In the opposite way, if my husband has been snappy and rude to me all day, chances are I'm not going to feel inclined to make love with him.

Now, again, I don't need something drastically romantic every day to make love. Some times just the memory of recent romantic ventures is enough to rev my engine. And, sometimes it's just how he kisses me(and he is a really, really good kisser). But for me it is all is connected.

This makes sense to me. It's not how my marriage operates, but it makes sense to me.

For us the actual sex act is very spiritually gratifying, as well as sexually and emotionally. The sex act in and of itself is a powerful short hand for deep connection. We crave that connection, that bonding, that GOOD sex, because that in and of itself just seals us in a really wonderful way. Sex isn't a byproduct of the gesture, it is the gesture in and of itself.

 

[momtwo4]

You are talking apples and oranges, and getting caught up in semantics.

You have a problem with the word "entitled". You make that synonymous with "obligations". Those words are not the same thing, at least from my perspective.

Children are "entitled" to food, clothing, shelter, and affection from their parents. The very fact that they were created, and brought into this world, "entitles" them to these basic necessities. It does not suggest that a parent is begrudgingly giving them that which they are "entitled" to have, these basic rights as children. Are there parents who look at their children as mere obligations, who begrudgingly take care of them? Sure, of course. However that doesn't change the fact that all children are "entitled" to these basic rights from their parents or guardians.

Sex within the confines of a marriage is no different than that. My wife IS "entitled" to sex from me. Because I married into a SEXUAL union as well as a psychological/emotional/financial/spiritual union. Her being "entitled" to have sex is absolutely no different than her being "entitled" to love, affection, and caring. I don't make love to my wife because I am obligated, but regardless of whether I feel obligated or not, by the very fact that she is my WIFE she is "entitled" to sexual gratification. The concepts are not mutually exclusive. She is both "entitled" to sex AND I desire to give her sex, not out of obligation, or her sense of entitlement, but because I want to.

If such a time comes that I begin chronically refusing her right to be sexually satisfied, and have no plans to change this course, she has ever right to divorce my behind and find someone else who is willing to fulfill the vows and give to her what she has the RIGHT to have.

Now YOU are comparing apples to oranges when you compare spouses with dependent children and sex with food, clothing, and shelter. I don't want to get into a debate as to whether sex is as essential to survival as food. It might be essential to your marriage's survival. But you won't die without sex. Apples to oranges.

I really don't disagree with most of what you are saying. We all have rights as individuals, and we all have obligations (sex is just on of the many obligations) to our spouses. I don't disagree there. What I was trying to say is that if your spouse senses that you have an attitude of entitlement toward sex, it is not likely to improve his/her attitude to enthusiastically make love to you. Groveling and begging won't work. Neither will an ultimatum (at least long term).

 

[southern wife]

not being depressed anymore,confidence,learning to feel beautiful,learning how to be on my own and take care of myself...I truly blossomed when i got to be on my own and independent.I became insatiable sexually and remain that way to this day. I often wonder if there are more women like me out there,truly depressed bc they feel worthless at not being independent and always depending on their man for help.The empowerment of being on my own gave me the confidence to embrace the sexy stuff.

My current SO helped me a lot with my drive too.

Awesome! :smthumbup: