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Discussion Starter #1
Cyber cheating, I've come acrossed a Post on here about a women who's husband has been found cheating on her online, acording to her he was caught on facebook in a realtionship with various women, dirty pictures and so on. So she decided to take it apone herself and instal a "Key Loger." a Key loger records EVERYTHING you type onto your pc, its a Massive invasion of ones privacy, whille it seems harmless to the person who is trying to find out if their spouse is cheating to the other person any information on their pc is recorded to the other person this is basically HACKING and Illegal. In my personal experince being one who has had a key loger on my pc you never get over the invasion, nor do you feel you can totally trust you partner and WHAT if your partner didn't do anything?? The TRUST is gone (between one or both of you) Some beleive if you chat with the oppsit sex its "emotinal cheatng", I personally beleive that you have to be PHYSICALLY with a person to be cheating along i think that somtimes you can get emotinally attached to a person online if you allow yourself. I think if the story had been diffrent (a women was caught cheating and the man had put the Key loger on her pc things would have been very diffrent, the man would be charged and either fined or inprinsoned and charged with some sort of crime and women all over this site would call him all sorts of names and not be sticking up for him like the women are for this women who has caught her husband not PHYSICALLY cheating but "cyber cheating." and hacking into his pc.. Would like to hear from others on your thoughts, if you have been a victem of a key logger, or hacking, etc I am NOT for cheating or anything i just think that two wrongs do NOT make a right!
 

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I believe those people on here who have learned of their partner having an EA and/or PA will vehemently disagree with your view.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
whats a EA PA, its okay to disagree. Ive said I think cheating is wrong but to spy is just as bad as cheating ur decieving your spouse and loosing their trust too.
 

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You are right that secret surveillance on ones spouse is a massive invasion of their privacy, yet if there are red flags of infidelity, be it physical or "just" emotional/cybercheating, I will definitely advise an uncertain spouse to snoop if there are no other ways to verify the questioble activities of their spouse. It is not something I'd ever recommend to someone unless there was a specific reason to feel the marriage was being threatened, however infidelity in my mind is a MUCH MUCH worse breach of trust then secret surveilance. The main reason I would justify keyloggers is because it may be the only way for a betrayed spouse to actually learn the truth of their spouses activities, and may arm the betrayed with enough facts to either save the marriage or else their own sanity.
 

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I believe I could easily get past my wife having a quick sexual fling with another man.

I know my wife engaging in an emotional loving romance with another man even if there was no sex would drive me right to divorce.

How do you explain that if cheating is only physical?

I explain it by believing sex is just sex but an emotional connection, a longing desire to be with someone is love.
That can`t be gotten over easily.

I have no problem using whatever means necessary to make certain my wife is holding up her end of this deal we have.

If she passlocked her phone or PC and was acting suspicious there`d be a keylogger on the PC and a text retrieval app on the phone in just a few short hours.
I`d have a VAR and a GPS tracker in her car just as fast.

I don`t hide things from my wife, if she`s hiding things from me I need to know why as there is far too much invested here for me to be flying blind.
 

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I think cheating is wrong but to spy is just as bad as cheating
Completely disagree. I don't even see where spying is wrong at all, you are married after all. I agree it would be wrong to spy on your ex spouse after your divorce. My observation is that spying usually starts after one hears "I'm not in love with you" or "I don't love you". I know that's when I started. And I still check in after my wife is around certain people or when she behaves in a particularly divisive fashion. There is always a cause and effect and the cause is most likely from outside our marriage
 

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I don't know if there's a full moon, or if people are just in the mood today to debate the merits, or lack thereof, of posting on this forum, spying on one's spouse, or what deodorant to use. (Said very tongue-in-cheek, mind you ...)

An EA is an emotional affair. A PA is a physical affair. Lots of people post their confusion, hurt, and betrayal over discovering their partner is engaging in "extracurricular activities." Some people start seeing major red flags that make them suspicious an EA or PA is going on. Frequently, folks suggest the concerned party install a key logger to confirm their suspicions of an affair.

Generally, a partner engaged in an affair isn't going to come clean, even when presented with hard evidence. Eventually, they'll come around to admitting the truth, but it helps to know for sure who's doing what and with who.
 

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Come back and post this again after your wife tells you "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

You'll have a totally different perspective on key loggers and the definition of an affair.
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Completely disagree. I don't even see where spying is wrong at all, you are married after all.
I'm pretty sure my wedding vows (nor license) never included anything about spying or the loss of all privacy. Every couple has to set their own boundaries, but I'd be thoroughly unhappy thinking I'd have to grant my wife unfettered access to all my communications. Likewise, I wouldn't want her to feel that everything she says to a friend or family member is subject to her husband's scrutiny. We're married, but still human beings entitled to our own thoughts.
But by all means, do whatever works for your relationship.
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Discussion Starter #11
Did not marriage vowes say somthing in reffernce to TRUST????? if you have to Key log your spouse you have broken this PERIOD. I think people have gone overboard wit the whole internet thing its one thing to go to someone house while you married and have a one night stay or sevreal but to be chatting with someone (NORMAL CHATS) not cyber sex or cam sex and have your spouse Acuse you of cheating and then going into a jealous rage and killing you because someone thought "key" logging was "harmless". so no its not totally harmless it could put someones life endanger...maybe not the normal man or women trying to catch their spouse but my previous husband has used key logger and use to freak out on me for just normal chats and threaten my life...Personally chatting to men or women is HARMLESS but when people start showing their body parts or having cyber sex or forming attachments then their a problem and no it shouldnt be "hidden." but perphas their is problems in the relationship somthing missing that the partnership is lacking that the person is missing or topic the husband/wife is having a hard time talking about they find easier to talk to a stranger and what seems like "cheating" is simply just two people talking about normal stuff.
 

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Of course marriage vows talk about trust. When your husband has shown he can't be trusted because he's a liar and a cheat, come back and lecture us all about invasion of privacy.

And for GODS SAKE learn how to spell.
 

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whats a EA PA, its okay to disagree. Ive said I think cheating is wrong but to spy is just as bad as cheating ur decieving your spouse and loosing their trust too.
Spying is not cheating. Spying is a spouse protecting the marriage and frankly looking out for thier spouse. Transparency solves this.

An EA is a chemical thing. Oxytocin and dopamine. It is an addiction. One has to go through withdrawal to get past it. I speak from experience.

Fundamentally I disagree with you and that is ok. I will not try to convince you otherwise. In my opinion marriage is based on love and respect. Trust is a by product. I believe in transparency. Letting a person of the oppositie sex fill emotional needs is very risky. It feels ok. It feels just like a close friendship. However, the feeling good is part of the chemicals in the brain. There should be no secrets from your spouse. If your communications with members of the opposite sex has to be hidden there is a real problem.

Having secrets at all is breaking trust.

There are levels:

1) Inappropriate behavior
2) Unfaithfulness
3) Cheating

There are levels within each of these. What is a PA? For some it is defined as penetration. I think that is too limited for sure.

Having secrets on prupose is unfaithful. Inappropriate behavior is usually not intended. If it is intended I say it has moved over into the unfaithful area. It is not just about sex either.

All of the above is about having proper boundaries.

EAs generally occur along those three levels.

If someone is being spyed upon it is most likely that their behavior has warranted this. If they are keeping secrets from their spouse then they are no worthy of trust.
 

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Did not marriage vowes say somthing in reffernce to TRUST????? if you have to Key log your spouse you have broken this PERIOD. I think people have gone overboard wit the whole internet thing its one thing to go to someone house while you married and have a one night stay or sevreal but to be chatting with someone (NORMAL CHATS) not cyber sex or cam sex and have your spouse Acuse you of cheating and then going into a jealous rage and killing you because someone thought "key" logging was "harmless". so no its not totally harmless it could put someones life endanger...maybe not the normal man or women trying to catch their spouse but my previous husband has used key logger and use to freak out on me for just normal chats and threaten my life...Personally chatting to men or women is HARMLESS but when people start showing their body parts or having cyber sex or forming attachments then their a problem and no it shouldnt be "hidden." but perphas their is problems in the relationship somthing missing that the partnership is lacking that the person is missing or topic the husband/wife is having a hard time talking about they find easier to talk to a stranger and what seems like "cheating" is simply just two people talking about normal stuff.
Traditional Wedding Vows 1:
I, (name), take you (name), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part.

Traditional Wedding Vows 2:
I, (name), take you, (name), to be my [opt: lawfully wedded] (husband/wife), my constant friend, my faithful partner and my love from this day forward. In the presence of God, our family and friends, I offer you my solemn vow to be your faithful partner in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, and in joy as well as in sorrow. I promise to love you unconditionally, to support you in your goals, to honor and respect you, to laugh with you and cry with you, and to cherish you for as long as we both shall live.

Traditional Wedding Vows 3 (traditional civil ceremony vows):
(Name), I take you to be my lawfully wedded (husband/wife). Before these witnesses I vow to love you and care for you as long as we both shall live. I take you with all your faults and your strengths as I offer myself to you with my faults and strengths. I will help you when you need help, and I will turn to you when I need help. I choose you as the person with whom I will spend my life.

Traditional Wedding Vows 4:
I, (name), take you, (name), to be my beloved (wife/husband), to have and to hold you, to honor you, to treasure you, to be at your side in sorrow and in joy, in the good times, and in the bad, and to love and cherish you always. I promise you this from my heart, for all the days of my life.


Jusy some traditional wedding vows. Vows are custom for each marriage.
 

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When your husband has shown he can't be trusted because he's a liar and a cheat, come back and lecture us all about invasion of privacy.
Thank you, Hope, for saying what I so dearly yearned to say myself.

And for GODS SAKE learn how to spell.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:

THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN, HOPE.
 

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Did not marriage vowes say somthing in reffernce to TRUST????? if you have to Key log your spouse you have broken this PERIOD. I think people have gone overboard wit the whole internet thing its one thing to go to someone house while you married and have a one night stay or sevreal but to be chatting with someone (NORMAL CHATS) not cyber sex or cam sex and have your spouse Acuse you of cheating and then going into a jealous rage and killing you because someone thought "key" logging was "harmless". so no its not totally harmless it could put someones life endanger...maybe not the normal man or women trying to catch their spouse but my previous husband has used key logger and use to freak out on me for just normal chats and threaten my life...Personally chatting to men or women is HARMLESS but when people start showing their body parts or having cyber sex or forming attachments then their a problem and no it shouldnt be "hidden." but perphas their is problems in the relationship somthing missing that the partnership is lacking that the person is missing or topic the husband/wife is having a hard time talking about they find easier to talk to a stranger and what seems like "cheating" is simply just two people talking about normal stuff.
Having something "missing" in a relationship is no excuse for secretive, sneaky behavior.
If you're not comfortable discussing what's missing between the two of you, talking to some male 'friend" (cyber or otherwise) is not going to help.
Most of the time guys in that situation will just tell you that hubby is wrong and how much better they'd treat you....
TO GET IN YOUR PANTS!
 

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Come back and post this again after your wife tells you "I love you but I'm not in love with you."
Thank you, alpha, for putting this so-called "debate" by OP in its proper perspective.
 

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Some non-traditional vows:

My One True Love:
I (name), take you (name) to be my (husband/wife), my partner in life and my one true love. I will cherish our union and love you more each day than I did the day before. I will trust you and respect you, laugh with you and cry with you, loving you faithfully through good times and bad, regardless of the obstacles we may face together. I give you my hand, my heart, and my love, from this day forward for as long as we both shall live.

The Man or Woman You Will Become
I, (name), take you, (name), to be my partner, loving what I know of you, and trusting what I do not yet know. I eagerly anticipate the chance to grow together, getting to know the (man/woman) you will become, and falling in love a little more every day. I promise to love and cherish you through whatever life may bring us.

When Our Love is Simple, and When it is an Effort
(Name), I love you. You are my best friend. Today I give myself to you in marriage. I promise to encourage and inspire you, to laugh with you, and to comfort you in times of sorrow and struggle.
I promise to love you in good times and in bad, when life seems easy and when it seems hard,
when our love is simple, and when it is an effort. I promise to cherish you, and to always hold you in highest regard. These things I give to you today, and all the days of our life.

Trust in You Completely
(Name), with all my love, I take you to be my wife/husband. I will love you through good and the bad, through joy and the sorrow. I will try to be understanding, and to trust in you completely. Together we will face all of life's experiences and share one another's dreams and goals. I promise I will be your equal partner in a loving, honest relationship, for as long as we both shall live.

Share in Your Dreams
(Name), from this day forward I promise you these things. I will laugh with you in times of joy and comfort you in times of sorrow. I will share in your dreams, and support you as you strive to achieve your goals. I will listen to you with compassion and understanding, and speak to you with encouragement. I will remain faithful to our vows for better or for worse, in times of sickness and health. You are my best friend and I will love and respect you always.
 

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In my opinion marriage is based on love and respect. Trust is a by product. I believe in transparency. There should be no secrets from your spouse. If your communications with members of the opposite sex has to be hidden there is a real problem.
Can you really respect a person who you feel compelled to spy upon? Spying, IMO, is inherently disrespectful. You are disrespecting a person's wishes not to share something with you. There are some instances when that disrespect is warranted, i.e. checking on someone who's proven to be untrustworthy, keeping tabs on an addict. But spying shouldn't be the default setting in any adult relationship, including marriage.

And of course there should be secrets from a spouse. I have no need to know every thought that runs through my wife's mind during any given day, even if she expresses it to another person. And the same goes for her.

I'm all for investigating red flags, but I don't believe marriage strips a person of any and all privacy. I trust the people I've chosen to allow into my life until they give me reason to distrust them. I don't waste my time looking for reasons to distrust them. That, IMO, would be an awful way to live.
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Ive said I think cheating is wrong but to spy is just as bad as cheating ur decieving your spouse and loosing their trust too.
I disagree completely. Cheating is completely unethical and unjustifiable. Cheating is a total betrayal of trust. Cheaters knowingly risks the life of their partner without consent, and they do it out of selfishness. Spying may be an unethical betrayal of trust, but it can be justified in some circumstances.

I'm deeply uncomfortable with spying, but having read so many accounts here of the situations in which people have chosen to spy on their spouse I can't say it's never right to do it. There are times when spying seems like the only reasonable thing a person can do, the rational response to the available facts. If you have a history of cheating, if your behavior creates legitimate suspicion, you should understand and accept that your spouse has justification to spy on you. I've not cheated and don't behave suspiciously, but I know if I found my partner had a keylogger on my computer and was reading every word I just typed I wouldn't feel betrayed by her. I would feel a bit violated and be upset, but I would recognize the necessity of her spying was the logical consequence of my questionable behavior.
 
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