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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All. New to the forum, and looking for help. I will try to be brief and to the point. Married 17 years. Not only issue in marriage, but major one right now. Husband has hobby, and in that hobby he meet a woman (married) who has the same interest. They became friends, and I had no idea how much they spoke. Went on his email in March (totally innocent) to check his email settings because my email wasn't working. Surprised and shocked to see emails between the two of them, with sexual banter. I didn't think then, nor do I think now, that they were having an affair. Told H I didn't like it, and thought we dealt with it. Now, in Aug, I checked his email (I don't want to be this type of wife, but something must have triggered me to check. Not to say it was okay...). He had deleted every single contact between him and her! He said he deleted them because he knew I would check. I told him he wouldn't need to delete if they were appropriate.

Anyway...in January I finally meet her (due to my action, not my H. I think if they were friends, this should have happened a lot sooner). Felt more comfortable. Now I saw his emails, and know that he was getting her a item that she wanted that was related to their hobby (which I have zero interest in), and he was going to deliver it to her. He never told me a word about the whole thing, and deleted the emails. I have no problem with him having a friend, but don't like the "flirting" and "bantering" or the secretiveness. He also has had dinner with her alone after events related to the hobby, and I think this is a date. Where was the rest of the group? He says they both have to eat...no big deal.

So, this is a real issue now. I have read tons on the internet, and still don't know what to do. He has never had a female friend. He thinks I am controling, and he doesn't have to tell me his every move, I am not his mother. I think he should be an open book when it comes to her. Problem is, I can't change him. He refuses to "give her up" because he says we will be fighting about something different in a week. I can't live like this for another 40 years. I am sure it is worse in my head, but I see that as his fault for not sharing. I don't want to divorce over this. What can I do? I see it as 2 choices for me. Accept or divorce. Not sure what other advise I can get. I want honest opinions, but please don't slaughter me. I know that this type of relationship would be totally acceptable is some marriages, but I personally don't like it.
 

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Does the OW have a husband or boyfriend?

If ahe does ending your husbands contact with her would be as easy as giving her SO copies of those emails.
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Married people might come into contact with members of the opposite sex through some hobby or another, but it isn't appropriate for them to continue the 'relationship' outside of the shared hobby, by emailing one another, exchanging flirty banter of a sexual nature and going out to dinner with one another. Your H knows this because he felt guilty enough to delete this woman's emails to him...

IMO, your H's actions fit the criteria for an emotional affair, and all contact with this woman needs to stop immediately.

OP, you might consider asking a moderator to move this thread to the Infidelity thread, because it will receive more attention there from people who have been in the same position you are now in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Does the OW have a husband or boyfriend?

If ahe does ending your husbands contact with her would be as easy as giving her SO copies of those emails.
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She is married, and apparently her spouse doesn't care. He has meet my husband. Maybe he has female friends, and they are okay with opposite sex friends in the marriage. Her spouse has no interest in the hobby either.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Married people might come into contact with members of the opposite sex through some hobby or another, but it isn't appropriate for them to continue the 'relationship' outside of the shared hobby, by emailing one another, exchanging flirty banter of a sexual nature and going out to dinner with one another. Your H knows this because he felt guilty enough to delete this woman's emails to him...

IMO, your H's actions fit the criteria for an emotional affair, and all contact with this woman needs to stop immediately.

OP, you might consider asking a moderator to move this thread to the Infidelity thread, because it will receive more attention there from people who have been in the same position you are now in.
Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
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She is married, and apparently her spouse doesn't care. He has meet my husband. Maybe he has female friends, and they are okay with opposite sex friends in the marriage. Her spouse has no interest in the hobby either.
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If you believe her spouse doesn't care because yours told you he doesn't you've just fallen for another lie.

If her spouse dosn't care then him seeing a stack of printed emails with their EA on display won't matter.

I'm betting it will matter a great deal.

Get the evidence of their affair into her husbands hands and she'll dump your man faster than you could imagine.
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Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
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Twin, it isn't nice to have to think of it that way, but emotional infidelity is just as damaging to a marriage (sometimes more so) as physical infidelity.

The reason I first came to TAM was because I was rather uncomfortable with the fact that I'd have to give my SO an ultimatum regarding his contact with female friends. Deep down I knew that it was because he was a little clueless about relationships, rather than being a player, but I wasn't comfortable with things. The TAM crew put me right about the dangers of emotional affairs and, I'm glad to say, my SO saw the light, too!

I hope things come right for you, Twin, but your situation really does need tackling sooner rather than later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If you believe her spouse doesn't care because yours told you he doesn't you've just fallen for another lie.

If her spouse dosn't care then being seeing a stack of printed emails with their EA on display won't matter.

I'm betting it will matter a great deal.

Get the evidence of their affair into her husbands hands and she'll dump your man faster than you could imagine.
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You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Twin, it isn't nice to have to think of it that way, but emotional infidelity is just as damaging to a marriage (sometimes more so) as physical infidelity.

The reason I first came to TAM was because I was rather uncomfortable with the fact that I'd have to give my SO an ultimatum regarding his contact with female friends. Deep down I knew that it was because he was a little clueless about relationships, rather than being a player, but I wasn't comfortable with things. The TAM crew put me right about the dangers of emotional affairs and, I'm glad to say, my SO saw the light, too!

I hope things come right for you, Twin, but your situation really does need tackling sooner rather than later.
How did you get SO to see the light? That is where I am stuck.
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You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
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I'm sure he's still actively chatting her up.
You might consider a keylogger to get any new messages between them.

It's my experience that convincing the OW's husband that his wife is fooling around is the best fastest way to end any affair.
Especially in your situation where the other betrayed spouse is a man
Men generally don't take this stuff for even a milisecond.
They will reel in a cheating wife in a heartbeat.
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How did you get SO to see the light? That is where I am stuck.
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I told him that these are my boundaries in a relationship. If you can't respect them, we'll have to part company.

I also showed him information on the subject of EAs, such as:- http://www.shirleyglass.com/

Fortunately, my SO was open to discussing things and was able to see for himself that carrying on emotional relationships (mainly flirty texting, emailing etc) with other women was a form of infidelity - emotional infidelity - and he stopped it altogether.
 

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You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
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COMPLETELY deleted? As in even the trash was emptied?

Also, if there wasn't something inappropriate to be found, then there would be no reason to delete the messages.

My husband and I were both involved in a hobby, of sorts. In our case, it was gaming. Long story short, we both had emotional affairs (EAs) and ended them. My husband was more reluctant, I think, because he didn't see how he was headed down that path...I caught it in the very early stages. He tried giving me the BS of "I guess I can't have any friends"... and my response to that was "Yes you can. You absolutely can... just not THAT friend." It has been almost one year since that discussion. But the point is, he (and I as well) realized that our marriage is much more important that some friend, or even more important than a hobby.

There are plenty of people in this hobby, I would guess, who he could be talking to. Your husband and this woman have already crossed one line that you know of, with their sexual banter/flirting. My personal opinion is that when that stuff starts, the friendship ends. I know all too well how easily it can cross over, and it's not worth it.
 

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Seen the red flags you have to take it to the infidelity forum.

Give no signs of your worry now to him, you will have to investigate and any talk about this will cause further hiding if there is really something going on.

Good luck, you may be in time to catch this.
 
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This has gone on for a long time now and already fits the definition of an emotional affair. Are you sure it hasn't gone physical?

Read Shirley Glass' 'Not Just Friends' and do the checklist there. Start doing some checking with a keylogger and/or VAR.

And yes, this is serious enough to talk about divorce. Emotional affairs break up marriages. Your H is spending his mental energy focused quite happily on another woman. He looks forward to all their communications, has her on his mind while you are the background noise. He hides it because deep down he knows that he is crossing lines. They go out on dates. Just because he calls her a friend doesn't change the fact that the anticipation and excitement and feelings that he has for her are what he would feel if he was dating.

Don't let this go on any longer. Don't be afraid of his reaction. You have a chance to recover your marriage, but not if this keeps going, in my opinion.

(And I agree that it would be good to ask to have your thread moved to the infidelity forum, as the other poster suggested.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
COMPLETELY deleted? As in even the trash was emptied?

Also, if there wasn't something inappropriate to be found, then there would be no reason to delete the messages.

My husband and I were both involved in a hobby, of sorts. In our case, it was gaming. Long story short, we both had emotional affairs (EAs) and ended them. My husband was more reluctant, I think, because he didn't see how he was headed down that path...I caught it in the very early stages. He tried giving me the BS of "I guess I can't have any friends"... and my response to that was "Yes you can. You absolutely can... just not THAT friend." It has been almost one year since that discussion. But the point is, he (and I as well) realized that our marriage is much more important that some friend, or even more important than a hobby.

There are plenty of people in this hobby, I would guess, who he could be talking to. Your husband and this woman have already crossed one line that you know of, with their sexual banter/flirting. My personal opinion is that when that stuff starts, the friendship ends. I know all too well how easily it can cross over, and it's not worth it.
Yep, completely deleted! He gave the the exact same BS about him not being able to have a friend!
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This has gone on for a long time now and already fits the definition of an emotional affair. Are you sure it hasn't gone physical?

Read Shirley Glass' 'Not Just Friends' and do the checklist there. Start doing some checking with a keylogger and/or VAR.

And yes, this is serious enough to talk about divorce. Emotional affairs break up marriages. Your H is spending his mental energy focused quite happily on another woman. He looks forward to all their communications, has her on his mind while you are the background noise. He hides it because deep down he knows that he is crossing lines. They go out on dates. Just because he calls her a friend doesn't change the fact that the anticipation and excitement and feelings that he has for her are what he would feel if he was dating.

Don't let this go on any longer. Don't be afraid of his reaction. You have a chance to recover your marriage, but not if this keeps going, in my opinion.

(And I agree that it would be good to ask to have your thread moved to the infidelity forum, as the other poster suggested.)
Thanks. I have read parts of that book, but didn't think this was an EA, but that was months ago. I might need to read it again, and in full. Thanks to COSMOS, I have asked to move to the infidelity forum. I really hate going through this...never thought that my husband would do this.
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Thanks. I have read parts of that book, but didn't think this was an EA, but that was months ago. I might need to read it again, and in full. Thanks to COSMOS, I have asked to move to the infidelity forum. I really hate going through this...never thought that my husband would do this.
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I observed my husband's behavior when he became involved in a physical affair (and also his behavior when he became involved in an emotional affair and I can tell you that very few of us would ever believe our husbands are capable of the things they do.

I was the most shocked person on earth when both of those events happened. I remember telling a friend when I got married many years ago that my husband would never cheat on me.

I was wrong.
 

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Read the book "Not Just Friends" ASAP. Do this today. Your marraige is in great danger. Based on what you have said, after you have read the book "Not Just Friends" you will know that it is defiantly an emotional affair (EA) and that you must take action to end it. You will know that not wanting to divorce over this is no longer an option since divorce is already on the table, you just do not know it. For starters tell your husband that you want full transparency into his actions with this other woman (OW). Tell him that if he has nothing to hide, he should be OK with this; he will not be OK with this since he has something to hide. Full transparency includes that he gives you full access without complaint to all email, text, phone information, etc., and that he does not delete anything. You must demand this full transparency and be willing to take action if he does not fully comply.

Your best chance of saving your marraige is to be willing to end it and mean it. You do not, and should not, have to live like this for the rest of your marraige and you should use that fact to motivate you to take action now. His understanding that you are willing to end the marraige is the only thing that will possibly get him to end his EA as he will not want to do it on his own. Be warned, there is also the very real possibility that it is now also a physical affair (PA). Also be warned that you cannot believe anything that he says going forward as he is cheating and cheaters lie.

As for the OW's spouse being OK about this, it is right out of the cheaters handbook to say this to you so that you question yourself and your judgement. Chances are that he does not know the full extent of the relationship. On the off chance that he does know and does not care, then their marraige was not in a good place and should not be the standard for you to follow. Again, I doubt that the OW's spouse knows the full extent of it.
 

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Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
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It is an EA of some variety. Worse thing to do is ignore it. Basically if it makes you uncomfortable he needs to go NC with her whether one wants to kibitz if it is an EA or not. It is at least inappropriate if not entirely unfaithful.

Then again EAs are not typically overtly sexual like you describe. What you describe is more flirtatious and sound more like a sexual attraction than emotional. This is more akin to pushing boundaries and cheating type stuff. Playing just the tip. Kill this relationship ASAP.
 

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It is an EA of some variety. Worse thing to do is ignore it. Basically if it makes you uncomfortable he needs to go NC with her whether one wants to kibitz if it is an EA or not. It is at least inappropriate if not entirely unfaithful.

Then again EAs are not typically overtly sexual like you describe. What you describe is more flirtatious and sound more like a sexual attraction than emotional. This is more akin to pushing boundaries and cheating type stuff. Playing just the tip. Kill this relationship ASAP.
you need to kill this relationship because what you will soon find is that your husband will overtly show concern about this woman's needs --whatever they are -- and to your detriment.

and as I noticed with my exH, without ever offering to do anything for his friend's wife, he would get anxious that something was expected of him. It gets really crazy.
 
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