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Someone will know who I am talking about. That guy needs a reality check and some good advice, not this wishy-washy **** he is getting.

That is all.
 
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I’ve been kicked from SI but I wish I could, brother. I believed she resisted, then failed a polly. Nothing worse then seeing someone wallow in indecisiveness. Been there, done that.
 

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Poor guy. Someone need to introduce him to his wife. His real wife, not what he is still wishing she would be, or more like wishing she was not.
 
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Smoking the hopium pipe gets some people through. However, it’s a shame when they are to scared to come to the other side. I read a lot of posts still, but almost none on infidelity anymore. It’s like someone released me from my death sentence. A call from the governor. I couldn’t be happier.
 

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Someone will know who I am talking about. That guy needs a reality check and some good advice, not this wishy-washy **** he is getting.

That is all.
This is Thumos. Yes, the actual one from SI, not a sock puppet. You have no way of knowing that, obviously, other than tells like the way I write. Anyway, let the 2x4’s commence.
 

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Hi @Thumos ... welcome to TAM!

It seems like some folks know you from SI, but I don't, so would you mind giving us a quick summary of your situation? I'll go do research and read up over there, but still...this is your space over here on TAM, so tell us what's going on!
 

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Oh dear lord, where to begin? I’ll try to provide a summary.

First here’s a long SI thread i’m pretty sure anyone can read: SurvivingInfidelity.com - General Forum

Married for 24 years, dated for three years exclusively (I hope? I think?) before our marriage. So we’ve been together for more than 25 years. I’ve never been unfaithful or strayed in any way. Just her.

Back in 2016, my wife had a three-month EA and PA with a married friend of ours, a father of another child at our youngest child’s school (my wife at first tried to minimize this as a 6-week affair, but the text and phone call records indicate it was a 3-month affair).

They had unprotected sex in our home when I was out of town for a business trip. She also insists this was the one and only time and that she never provided him with oral or anything else — don’t they all say this sh*t?

She refused to let me see the texts between them. There was lots of heavy petting, deep kissing, and secret meet ups in cars, at her work and elsewhere. “Dates” involving our kids. Just last fall, I learned from her that she’d brought OM over to our house for dinner almost “playing house” several times during the affair while I was out of town.

My wife went on hard mode gaslighting me During the affair, which included her convincing me for a time that I’d falsely accused her and her invoking an in-home separation. I finally gathered enough evidence via VAR.

I still have to see the POSOM several times a month (sometimes several times in a week) All over the town we live. We still live in the same home.

Last fall, I laid down ultimatums and got her to go to IC, as well as provide a written timelines and submit to a polygraph. Doing the polygraph and the drama leading up to it was a ****show.

She failed the polygraph. Definitive fail according to the examiner. I didn’t get a parking lot confession.

Since then, I’ve been focused on paying down our debt - also dealt with a heart attack scare in the winter brought on by stress (my heart is fine by the way). Pandemic etc has led to being in a kind of stasis, but I’m looking at my options and thinking quite clearly now.

That’s where we are.
 

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Thumos, I think your wife is full of crap. The real her is the one that degraded you, manipulated you, and gaslighted you. The wife you see now is the one that wants to keep up appearances and is play-acting the part of remorseful wife.

You need to put your own happiness first. There are a million great women out there. Don't sit around hoping things will get better while you waste valuable time finding a real wife.
 

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SO I haven't yet read your SI posts. BUT, why are YOU paying down both of your debt? I HOPE you are LEGALLY separated, so that anything SHE incurs doesn't become your responsibility.
I am guessing that you will D her (not sure, you didn't say). If that's the case, your commingled debt would be split BETWEEN you, so why are YOU doing all the paying?
I DO hope that you have consulted lawyers to find out what you could expect financially, custody, etc. If not, WHY NOT? I am NOT saying you need to D but I think the more information you have, the better you can create a plan for YOUR and your kids.
 

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Welcome, sorry you are here.

Yes, talk to an atty asap. There are things you could do which torpedo your future, and likewise smart things which protect your future.
 

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She refused to let me see the texts between them.

my wife at first tried to minimize this as a 6-week affair, but the text and phone call records indicate it was a 3-month affair

she’d brought OM over to our house for dinner almost “playing house” several times during the affair while I was out of town

My wife went on hard mode gaslighting me

She failed the polygraph
Those actions (by themselves) are really pretty damn bad, and you have only discovered the tip of the iceberg of infidelity.

Based solely on that information that you have disclosed on this site, your wife has outrageously cheated on you, and has compounded that betrayal exponentially by lying to you (more than) blatantly. She has betrayed you and your children. You do not indicate that she has shown ANY remorse or done anything to indicate that she is even committed to the marriage going forward. What are her "whys"?

A marriage (which she has totally destroyed) has to be based upon a foundation of trust (which she has totally destroyed). I respectfully suggest: 1) get out of limbo, 2) file immediately for divorce, and 3) start a grey rock level 180 process. Your wife seems to be just waiting you out in hopes of your rug-sweeping her bad acts and "just letting it go", and/or she is just waiting for another man to come her way. Has she gone completely NC with her AP? Have you stop funding her by separating your finances? Have you disclosed her infidelity to her and your families, friends, AP's spouse, etc.? How has she indicated that she will fix herself, help you and your family to heal, and become a remorseful FWW for the rest of her life? If she can't convincingly express those thoughts with you, you should help her out of her limbo and on down the road. You are a truly intelligent, thoughtful man (based on your SI posts). Please act accordingly, and do so swiftly, and decisively. I hope that you get out of infidelity soon, and that (if you want her to) your wife recognizes how horribly she has treated you and her children, how she is risking the loss of everything that is valuable in her world, that she has to own what she has done, and then prove that she understands what she has done to those who truly love her.

Please find your rage, but act on it unemotionally, with coldness and indifference.
 

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Ok a couple of things:

1. It’s our debt together. I played a nice role in helping to accumulate it. She’s not a big spender and never has been.

2. I want to pay it off together. I don’t want to walk away with half of this debt. I want to walk away with zero of it.

3. Two debt-free divorced parents is going to be a helluva lot healthier for everyone, including our kids.

4. She and I make almost the same level of income. We’re doing well. She actually is probably going to make more than me this year.

5. If I had divorced her 3.5 years ago, that wouldn’t have been the case, she made quite a bit less, and I’d probably be paying alimony and child support Now. I dont’ regret staying and trying to work on reconciliation. It allowed me calm down and get some things straight and I can say I really tried.

5a. Now we have one kid out of the nest, and only one kid is now a dependent. Now that she makes as much or more than me, alimony is less likely, 50/50 custody split is much more likely, child support isn’t an issue With a 50/50 split where I live, etc.

6. No I haven’t seen an atty yet - that’s the only thing I haven’t done, really At this point.

7. I’m inclined to think that both the person I’m seeing now and the person who gaslighted me and betrayed me are BOTH the real woman I’m married to. It’s possible to sustain “love bombing” for awhile, but difficult to do for more than 3 years in my view. She hasn’t love bombed — and while everything she did was horrible, along with dragging her feet on transparency and the polygraph et — she’s also done a lot (as she should have done).

8. I’m not defending her, I just tend to be somewhat objective about this more than I used to (it’s probably one thing that has kept me engaged in the marriage tbh And maybe that’s a deficit on my part). I don’t like being one of those anonymous posters who provides everyone a one-sided view. Maybe it’s my professional background.
 
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Tbh, I think 36yearsgone aka "The Masochistic Christian" is in more of a need of a reality check than Thumos is. But then, I'm virtually certain 36 is a lost cause. Oh well. Hope his virtuousness continues to sustain him.
 

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Based solely on that information that you have disclosed on this site, your wife has outrageously cheated on you, and has compounded that betrayal exponentially by lying to you (more than) blatantly. She has betrayed you and your children. You do not indicate that she has shown ANY remorse or done anything to indicate that she is even committed to the marriage going forward. What are her "whys"?
It’s a little daunting to have to recreate all the information from my SI thread, so I’ll just let it suffice to say that she has shown what many consider to be remorseful behavior and has done many things over and above what even “remorseful” spouses do. This is over and against her other behaviors and words. The two sets of facts conflict with each other, like a person really at war with themselves. I think a lot of posters at SI find my situation with her confounding bc she doesn't line up with the usual suspects very well.

We discussed it in detail on SI and most of the posters, both BS and WS, many of whom were leaning toward divorce, had a consensus that many of the things she did consistently lined up with the actions of a remorseful spouse.

She’s also done and said a lot of ****ty things in the first year after DDay, really gobsmacking statements that would make the neck hairs stand up here, I suspect. That she later retracted. For example, she tried to say I was "sexually immature" because I couldn't understand that it was just "meaningless sex" with her AP. Or she said once that the texts were "private." Just a sample.

And she’s done a lot to emphasize the clear suspicion she’s not being fully truthful and transparent by burying evidence, dragging her feet on the polygraph, failing the polygraph and more.

I'm not blind to any of these facts.

I'll also say that weirdly -- there's a possibility she's telling the truth now, and she insists she is. Which would be truly tragic. Why is this possible, and perhaps even probable? Because while it was a three month affair:

1. The first 5-6 weeks were much more of a "not just friends" situation with an escalation of phone calls and lengthy convos.
2. Her schedule is pretty tightly circumscribed. We live and work in the same suburb. There weren't THAT many opportunities for them to get up to no good.
3. I became suspicious early on and while I didn't "get the goods" until December, she was dealing with a husband who was already freaking out and beside himself all through November. In one of the convos I captured, the AP is worried and very nervous bc he knows I'm suspicious and he can't figure out how I've been able to track down certain information.

So there's a chance she's telling the truth. Of course what I know is awful enough. In truth, in some ways I allowed myself to be cajoled into staying and once a certain amount of time passed, I reached that plain of lethal flatness phase where a BH feels "obligated" in some ways to try to reconcile.

Now, I don't regret staying for many of the reasons I already outlined. But I also want to be truthful here: I have prayed occasionally for a mulligan, like I catch her up to no good again, so I can just walk with a "clean conscience."
 
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Tbh, I think 36yearsgone aka "The Masochistic Christian" is in more of a need of a reality check than Thumos is. But then, I'm virtually certain 36 is a lost cause. Oh well. Hope his virtuousness continues to sustain him.
I have to agree with this. I feel terrible for him. His wife actually hit him on the head the other day accusing HIM of being unfaithful, and now he may have a detached retina as a result. So physical abuse on top of mental and emotional and psychological abuse. I'm a Christian, too, and frankly I think that plays into far too many "false R" situations. I think unfortunately many evangelical circles have gone over to the "feminist" side of things and are leaving men out in the cold when it comes to dealing with female infidelity.
 
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Has she gone completely NC with her AP?

Yes, I haven't monitored her in about two years - but the danger of reigniting is so low as to be non-existent.

Have you stop funding her by separating your finances?

No we're still married, we are not separated and ostensibly working on reconciliation. There would be no reason to do that other than if I had announced I was done reconciling. We went through the multi-week Retrouvaille this spring (which I did find helpful for a variety of reasons).

Have you disclosed her infidelity to her and your families, friends, AP's spouse, etc.?

Yes. But not to my family. I felt it was important to not drag my family into it if I decided to R. Would just make it harder. As far as all of our friends? No. Several of my close friends know. None of our "couple friends" know.

Please find your rage.

No problem there. I found it so well I had a false heart attack scare earlier this year. My stepfather was an abusive rageaholic. I am very dubious of giving into rage. I spend a lot of time in the iron temple working it out of my body.
 

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You need to put your own happiness first. There are a million great women out there. Don't sit around hoping things will get better while you waste valuable time finding a real wife.

I do know this. I've been lucky the past couple of years to receive lots of female attention, which certainly alleviates that early feeling of emasculation and not being "Worthy" Maybe it's a "silver fox" thing I've got going. In any case, while I haven't acted on any of it, there are clearly lots of women in their 20s, 30s and 40s who find me attractive, and I likewise find them attractive. I know that the clock is ticking. I'll be 50 this year.
 
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For example, she tried to say I was "sexually immature" because I couldn't understand that it was just "meaningless sex" with her AP. Or she said once that the texts were "private." Just a sample.

And she’s done a lot to emphasize the clear suspicion she’s not being fully truthful and transparent by burying evidence, dragging her feet on the polygraph, failing the polygraph and more.

. . . .

So there's a chance she's telling the truth. feels "obligated" in some ways to try to reconcile.

. . . .

But I also want to be truthful here: I have prayed occasionally for a mulligan, like I catch her up to no good again, so I can just walk with a "clean conscience."
Chump Lady would have a field day with the first paragraph I've quoted. Have you checked out her blog? Her mantra is, Leave a Cheater gain a life. I urge you to do some reading there.

Sir, you'd be foolish to believe one syllable that comes out of your wife's mouth. Cheaters lie. I know you listed a myriad of reasons why you think she could be telling the truth now. It'd be an exercise in futility to believe her. She failed the poly. You will never get the full truth.

Help me understand your desire to walk away with a clean conscience? What did you do? She's the one that cheated. I don't understand.

It's okay to leave. You know this, right?
 

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@Thumos,

Oh boy am I glad you're here! Just to introduce myself (waving hello), my exH cheated on me in my first marriage; I am a former wandering spouse in my second marriage (and I earned the "former")--my second husband passed away in Sept. 2017; and I'm now happily remarried since Memorial Day last year! I am in my late 50's so although we may not be the same age, we're at least close enough to have some understanding of the complexities of children leaving the nest, etc. I am a Christian lady and strive to live my life according to what we're taught in the scriptures.

So as a former wandering spouse, I'll tell you the first thing that REALLY struck me when I read through your thread on SI was the fact that you mentioned that (quote) "She read 'How to Help Your Spouse' but labeled it as 'guilt tripping' " and that when you try to talk to her about how that book is 'guilt-trippy' (quote) "...things get very emotional and very slippery. They say something that stupefies you and you kind of sit there and you’re not sure you heard it right but then you try to folo up and the DARVO begins."

When I had my affair in my second marriage, I did not respond perfectly. My Dear Hubby found out, and he immediately contacted the OM and said, "She is MY WIFE and if you think I'm going to let her go without a fight, you are sadly mistaken." Then he packed my clothes into some luggage, drove me to the train/bus station and essentially said, "Pick. I pray that you'll choose to come home with me, because that's what I hope for, but you are free to go if that is your choice. But know this: if you do choose to go, the door to me will be closed forever. You will never walk back through that door at home." Now, my Dear Hubby was a man who followed up his words with actions--his words and actions MATCHED, so I knew that he meant it! I chose him. And with much effort we did truly recover and renew our marriage.

He also made me go NC, and at the time my brain knew that was the way to end it and the right thing to do, but in the moment I didn't want to do it. Still, part of recovery and renewing yourself is exactly doing what you KNOW is right regardless of "feelings." I struggled at first, but yeah, after a little while I was as fully committed to NC as he was. I closed all the avenues we had communicated, went NC with all of the "friends" who knew of OM and I as a couple, and basically went with no social media or email or electronics for several months while we rebuilt. And maybe the SECOND thing I did was that I went to every single person, in our family, our kids, our friends, our neighbors...everybody...and told them what I had done, that it was me and my choice, and that it was not Dear Hubby and they shouldn't hold him accountable. There is a very good reason for this: HONESTY.

The biggest change that has to happen to a person who was formerly unfaithful and they are wanting to become faithful is that they have to begin living entirely differently: HONESTLY. That means that there isn't a mask or image for some people (friends, neighbors, etc.) and a whole different person under the mask at home. That means personal responsibility, as in sure, my Dear Hubby had some traits that hurt me and made an environment in the marriage that was hurful before my adultery, but the adultery is MINE and MINE ALONE. I could have chosen a lot of different ways to get the message across that X or Y were truly hurting our marriage--but it was my choice and my decision to cheat. It was reflective of ME and the condition of MY HEART.

And part of that reflection is that I did have an image for the outside world, and a whole other image for family, and a whole other image for friends, etc. I was not authentic. I was being dishonest to everyone. So a huge part of the healing after infidelity has to do with being HONEST. Well...if she read 'How to Help Your Spouse' and thought it was guilt-trippy, that sounds to me like she hasn't fully accepted responsibility for what she chose to do. Now you may think "Oh but she has. She says X, Y, and Z" but again, look at her actions.

See, part 1 of recovery after infidelity is learning to live Honestly...and part 2 is rebuilding trust. And you know how you build trust? It's pretty easy--behave in a trustWORTHY way. What's trustWORTHY? When words and actions MATCH. When she says X, Y, and Z but does A, B, and C...her words and actions aren't matching. And to be specific, she says she is remorseful and will do anything...and her actions are Denying what she did, Attacking you, and Reversing Victim and Offender! That is not the action of remorse!

So it sounds to me as if there is GOOD REASON why you don't feel trust and you don't feel recovered. You haven't recovered! Even with all the IC and weekend, those things may be good for you as an individual, but for the marriage to recover and renew a) she just has to start living HONESTLY (which to my mind would include going to the family and humbly, honestly confessing what she did) and b) she has to follow up her "words" with clear and distinct "actions" that match (not "checking boxes off a list of things to do" but rather "when I say I want to help you recover, I will listen to what you say you need and what the book says you need, humble myself that I feel like I'm eating crow but kind of deserve it, and act the same as what I say!").
 

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I haven't been over to that simp pit in a long time, but I'm guessing, as usual, the fools over on SI are doing their damndest to DELUDE yet another of the sheep who were foolish enough to wander into their pasture over there.

Glad you came here, Thumos. Reading over there gives me a freakin' migraine.

She failed the polygraph. Definitive fail according to the examiner. I didn’t get a parking lot confession.
Of COURSE she failed it. Cheaters are notorious liars and they have one job when they get caught - and Job #1 is damage control. That's accomplished by lying, denying, minimizing, gaslighting, more lying, more denying, and a whole lot of empty promises she made about how she'd cut off contact with lover boy and everything else.

I'm guessing, like most cheaters, she also put on a big dog and pony show for you on D-Day, calling lover boy and informing him their affair was over, that she loves you, and she never wants to hear from him again. Of course, the very first second she got away from you, she contacted him and told him what was going on and apologized for that call she was forced to make.

Cheaters are the most PREDICTABLE people on the planet.

So let me guess - the misguided sheep over on SI have probably told you that all you have to do is drag her lying, gaslighting ass to "therapy" and all will be right with the world. They do love their hopium pipe over there.

The bottom line is that this remorseless LYING cheater has been lying through her teeth to you for 4 years running. In essence, you've bellied up to the counter at the S***t Sandwich Cafe for 4 years now. Why on earth WOULD you waste another day on this witch? Because the deluded fools on SI have likely promised you a Unicorn Ending in Lollypop Land if you can just get her to go to IC? They are so out of touch wtih reality over there.

Do yourself a favor. Go see your lawyer tomorrow morning.
 
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