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Discussion Starter #1
Allright, time to have a frank conversation that isn't just a side-note in some other thread.

We spend a lot of time commiserating with husbands and wives who can't get their partner interested in sex, or who find that their partner prefers quality alone time to partnered fun. We blame the selfish bastard for failing in the primary duty of a spouse, or scream "porn addiction!" at the top of our lungs.

What about when the problem is really that one of you is just not very good at sex? There's lots of ways a spouse can become "sex starved", as Michelle Weiner-Davis would say it. You're not very good at what you do, or you take so many activities off the table that sex becomes ruthlessly predictable and boring. One of you doesn't even need to be especially bad at it if both of you just cannot agree on what constitutes a mutually satisfactory sex life.

Two people simply wanting to have sex in a monogamous relationship doesn't guarantee marital bliss. Good, Giving, and Game is the only way you're going to ensure that your spouse sees you as an engaging and desirable partner over a multi-decade relationship. If you are not, you should not be surprised when that spouse loses interest in you.

So that's my shout-out to everyone who has been through this, or who is wondering why their partner has lost interest. Could it be that you're a big part of the problem?
 

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It's a good question. The only time I got bored with things was with my exH who, trying to hide that he was gay, became very predictable and same old same old. He knew he was not performing though so his way of dealing was to just stop initiating and eventually hiding from me, going to bed super late, etc, etc so I wouldn't initiate.

Had a conversation with a friend and she was telling me her sex life with her husband has become too predictable. First we do A, then B, then we're done type of thing. So she's been turning him down a lot and he's starting to ask why. She hasn't been honest about why, just says she's not in the mood. I told her that wasn't fair to him and not very good for her marriage. She acted like I had given her great advice but we'll see if she actually follows through.
 

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What about when the problem is really that one of you is just not very good at sex?

Two people simply wanting to have sex in a monogamous relationship doesn't guarantee marital bliss.
This can certainly be a real problem for some couples, because good sex is a learned skill and requires effort and attention to learn. However, I think it is more likely that sexual habituation sets in by about 2 years, and sex loses that edge of excitement, the element of newness and anticipation. Sure, some couples manage to avoid this if they work at it (or a few are just very lucky), but sex becomes routine. Routine isn't enough for some people, and they don't pursue having sex with their partner, or reject them if they have something more interesting to do. Porn can be more exciting because there is infinite variety to stimulate the user - it's often better than the sex with your partner. This habituation is also one (of many) reason why so many men and women cheat - they want to feel that excitement again that is so lacking with their loving, long term partner.
 

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Your title made me laugh so hard. 😂

In my former marriage, I think we both had issues that repelled the other.

The only complaint he brought up to me was that I didn't have orgasms.

My list is much longer.

Sitting here thinking about it, what stands out most is that I don't remember sex ever being playful and fun.

And I'm sure that you're right - that my mental state was a big part of the problem.

He was extremely passive, and although I'm speculating, because he didn't talk about it, his behavior came across to me like he just expected sex to happen.

I don't recall him ever making a genuine effort, and my efforts were consistently shut down.

What I learned (that I didn't know when I got married) is that passivity breeds contempt. For me.

It's a relief not to have to deal with that type of frustration anymore.
 

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i do not doubt there is a lot of truth in this. I have questioned this in my case many, many times. I often wonder how much of the troubles with sex are my own making. It is easy for me to see what I think of as shortfalls of my wife, but much harder to face the issues I bring into the mix. There is also likely a huge spectrum in this area. It is not just the lover who has no idea what they are doing, it can be an extreme, but may also be somewhere in between. As someone posted above, even a lover who knows the right techniques, can become predictable and "boring".
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i do not doubt there is a lot of truth in this. I have questioned this in my case many, many times. I often wonder how much of the troubles with sex are my own making. It is easy for me to see what I think of as shortfalls of my wife, but much harder to face the issues I bring into the mix. There is also likely a huge spectrum in this area. It is not just the lover who has no idea what they are doing, it can be an extreme, but may also be somewhere in between. As someone posted above, even a lover who knows the right techniques, can become predictable and "boring".
In my case, I have a wife who is actually not bad at what she does - it's just what she does and allows is so (by my standards) incredibly limited that the feeling I notice the most when we are in bed is "frustration". I have likened it to donning a straight jacket to have sex. Don't do this. Don't touch that. Keep your mouth above my shoulders, buster. That's disgusting - who would ever do that?

Then of course there's the mental toll of asking if I am just asking for too much - that a more reasonable person would be happy with what he has, which is not a sexless marriage except perhaps by my own choosing.

I feel like Moses when he was told that his punishment for striking that rock was to never enter the promised land. It's why I am the most strident anti-virginity advocate for engaged couples you can imagine. Maybe having sex before marriage doesn't guarantee that you never get tired of each other, but it sure as hell tells you if you are fully incompatible today.
 

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I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.

No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.

It’s no ONES fault for things become routine. But if someone isn’t good... your very limited on what you can do. Some people wouldn’t mind being told or coached how to be better, but many people would be offended and upset by doing such a thing.


Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.
 

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in my case, I find that on the rare occasions my wife happens to be really horny, it gets me super horny, and then I dont last very long. Unfortunately, of all times, that is when she most wants a long hard pounding...and I cannot give it to her. I am sure that must cause some level of disappointment for her and cause her to feel that I am not as good of a lover as she would want. Other times, I am likely very predictable, and as others have stated on this post, that does not really generate much excitement. some areas that I need to improve for sure.
 

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I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.

No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.

It’s no ONES fault for things become routine. But if someone isn’t good... your very limited on what you can do. Some people wouldn’t mind being told or coached how to be better, but many people would be offended and upset by doing such a thing.


Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.
I agree with you, but I find an interesting challenge in my marriage, that my wife does not like to communicate during sex, so she does not "coach", and so sometimes I change rhythm, position, or something, and find out later it was at the very wrong moment. I think communication is key, and even if it is to tell me something that would work better, or something I am doing that is not great....it is hard for me if she does not voice it.

You want me to go faster/slower.....no problem, but you have to somehow tell me. I cannot read her mind.
 

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I agree with you, but I find an interesting challenge in my marriage, that my wife does not like to communicate during sex, so she does not "coach", and so sometimes I change rhythm, position, or something, and find out later it was at the very wrong moment. I think communication is key, and even if it is to tell me something that would work better, or something I am doing that is not great....it is hard for me if she does not voice it.

You want me to go faster/slower.....no problem, but you have to somehow tell me. I cannot read her mind.
Yea that’s frustrating.

The person who is unhappy with the quality of sex should not be the one not communicating what they want. There really is no excuse for that.
 

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See, I disagree with this. To me, there are endless things that can be improved on. You could experiment your entire life and still not master/exhaust your sexual preferences.

It makes me sad that you're embarrassed to try something new. I would think a man would really appreciate the effort, creativity and enthusiasm.

Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.
 

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I quit initiating when she stopped participating. She puts no effort into making it mutually satisfying.
Premarriage she was great, didn't know much about sex (very sheltered life) but was into it and willing to learn and was often the aggressor.

Children come along and I'm sent to the background, sex dies off. Lots of talk but never any action sex about once a month, very predictable, very little effort on her part. I do everything I can think of to keep it fun and interesting she just wants to get it over with. Kids get a little older we have a major crisis in the marriage (not related to sex) that lands us in marriage counseling. She finally seems to get the message that my love language is sex and it is important. She puts in a good effort to make it better but it was not permanent. She never says no anymore but often gives starfish sex. I start feeling like I am sexually assaulting her as she lays there looking at the ceiling or with her eyes closed and her hands by her side. She initiates by saying this often "hey, want to have some quick fun, but you have to hurry I've got stuff to do. Oh and good luck to you my stomach is kinda bothering me".

As a resulted I started finding other stuff to do and stopped participating in her quest to claim she tried. I'd rather go with out than do what we were doing. The problem now is that it has broken my emotional connection with her. So yes her being a lousy lover has taken a toll on the relationship.
 

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I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.

No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.

It’s no ONES fault for things become routine. But if someone isn’t good... your very limited on what you can do. Some people wouldn’t mind being told or coached how to be better, but many people would be offended and upset by doing such a thing.


Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.
I get what your saying but you are putting in the effort and trying to learn / do new things. No one should fault you for not getting it right the first time. You may even try stuff your partner is not into or didn't like but at least you tried. To me it is the complete lack of interest and effort that really ruins it.
 

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2 years wasn't a problem. 10-12 years there was a problem but communication (speaking and listening) got us back on track. But, 30 years is a heck of a long time. Hard to think of something playful we haven't tried. And then there is health, things just don't work the way they used to. And there are only so many work arounds. 20 more years? no way it's going to be interesting much longer.
 

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But @Cletus being a bad lover is my goto move. The main way to improve the quality of sex is by lowering expectations. My wife anticipates that I will always bomb which makes her preemptively work harder to help make sure and save the day (Yay!).

It also boosts her self confidence because I let her know she is awesome! Meanwhile I am about as smooth as asphalt, but at least I am humble about it and willing to take instructions.

:)

Badsanta
 

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Faster faster ooh ooh baby baby.

This is what people need to grow wwaaayyyy beyond in experience and enthusiasm.

We use the term wild monkeyporn sex, I think a lot of folks do.

And great sex takes stamina, physical strength, enthusiasm, commitment, and sound effects!!

Truthfully I belive a lot of women don't work as hard as the man in sex, the way things go in the long run.

I'm for women's equal rights! Take me! Take me now!
 

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in my case, I find that on the rare occasions my wife happens to be really horny, it gets me super horny, and then I dont last very long. Unfortunately, of all times, that is when she most wants a long hard pounding...and I cannot give it to her. I am sure that must cause some level of disappointment for her and cause her to feel that I am not as good of a lover as she would want. Other times, I am likely very predictable, and as others have stated on this post, that does not really generate much excitement. some areas that I need to improve for sure.
And when pounding it helps to not be thinking of the roses and tender love shared but the attitude you had from the very beginning - the I'm gonna take this and you'll remember this later you're my woman and don't you forget it type thoughts.
 

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I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.

No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.

It’s no ONES fault for things become routine. But if someone isn’t good... your very limited on what you can do. Some people wouldn’t mind being told or coached how to be better, but many people would be offended and upset by doing such a thing.


Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.
Bite your tongue!

I was born good at it!
 

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Truthfully I belive a lot of women don't work as hard as the man in sex, the way things go in the long run.
That’s because in order to please a woman, a man has to have passion and connection to her. He has to be seductive and engaging. He must have foreplay skills and techniques. He must be of an adequate size - but not too big. He must have stamina and lasting ability and well as be able to perform in a wide variety of positions and skills and abilities to provide stimulation including direct clitoral stimulation if she needs. And if she is not one that can readily orgasm via PIV then he must also employ proper manual and oral skillz and techniques. And then he needs to engage in proper afterplay, cuddling and validating pillow talk.

Conversely, a woman just needs to show up and not say no.
 
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