[BoSlander]

Happy Thanksgiving Day everyone!

It's no secret that the workplace tends to be a hotbed of adultery. I think, one of the things that always catches people by surprise is seeing your SO's intense and deep emotional connections, most often unbeknown to us, in the form of affectionate body language, tongue-in-cheek behaviors and even lunch/coffee/dinner dates that are, again, most often kept from the SO, for obvious reasons.

I remember the first time I saw this in full display with my XW: we went to a wedding where two teachers were getting married (they ended up cheating on each other and divorcing-LOL). 95% of all invitees were school personnel, which I found odd but it is what it is. To say it was an odd day for me is an understatement: When we first walked into the hall, my XW started introducing me to people, which I was fine about but... eventually I saw her jumping from group to group of invitees, exchanging hugs and kisses with women and men I had never met. As the evening progressed, I started noticing my XW was really trying hard to ignore me (I did not know anyone there, she knew everyone,) going as far as dancing slow tunes with other dudes, only to come back to our table and say something really f-cked up to me like "you're getting drunk." One of the dudes she was dancing with... let's just say there were too many eye exchanges and one slap in the butt too many for me to feel like her relationships with the people at work were merely superficial, which was the story she was selling me all along by the way. It got so bad that I got drunk and turned my body toward the band and my back to everyone else at the table. At one point, my XW sensed what was happening and we decided to leave. To say that we fought in the car is an understatement.

To make a long story short, what happened that night got printed in my reptilian brain. It wasn't the type of experience that you go through and flush out within days. No, I STILL remember it vividly. Too many (f-cked up) things happened that night that I wasn't aware of... kind of like when I found out Santa was really my parents... like a loss of innocence type of thing. What I learned from that night was that 1) my XW was making insanely deep emotional connections with coworkers (male, female, married, single, young and old), 2) that she was keeping how deep these relationships were a secret, 3) that she was intentionally creating really intimate moments/situations with some of these co workers (again, keeping them secret) and that 4) at one point or another, her emotional and romantic b-base slowly pivoted from the marriage to the school ecosystem. The way this change manifested itself was in the way she behaved: she would ALWAYS try to make up from any fights right before she was about to leave for work and then, as soon as she came home, she would unleash hell because of the smallest things imaginable.

What is your experience?

 

[BoSlander]

Hi Bo,

For the record my wife is a second grade teacher and we have been to a wedding much like you described. My wife does indeed have nice relationships with some of her coworkers. I however do not view any of them as threatening in any way, perhaps because the only male teacher in her grade is a cross dresser !!!!! It sounds to me that something was probably going on at home that wasn’t happy marriage material and your wife was getting her emotional cup filled elsewhere. I’m not giving your wife a pass on her bad behavior though.

The dance with another guy: Here is where you and I are extremely different people. I wouldn’t have let that continue for more than a couple seconds but honestly my wife wouldn’t be brave enough to try and pull that kind of BS on me. I would have walked straight up and let him know I was going to break his fingers if he ever got within 5 feet of my wife again. That’s for him disrespecting me with my wife. Secondly my wife would be packing her chit and GTFO as soon as we got home. Your wife gave you the ultimate chit test and you failed miserably but honestly who cares because who in the hell needs a wife like that ? At our event my wife stayed by my side and also had me entertain and take care of her single friend…. that’s how that situation is supposed to look.

Respect: If a relationship doesn’t have it then nothing else matters…..it’s doomed for divorce or a life of misery and chit sandwiches which reminds me the sandwiches at our wedding were pretty good, so were the drinks, and lucky enough my wife’s friend was pretty cute!

Your bitterness bleeds over into all of your post here at TAM. If I were you maybe I would feel the same way but I’d hope that I wouldn’t. You should trying to find whatever makes you feel better as soon as possible because you don’t want to turn into one of those woman hater types. I bet there are still some positive things in your life…. don’t forget about those.

Do you have anything to add on YOUR significant other’s relationships with her coworkers or did you just want to air your grievances toward me all the while trying to look and sound as hard and alpha as Chuck Norris' c-ck? If the later is the case, you could’ve just sent me a private message and hit the ignore button.

I really don't know where you get the perception that I dislike women or that I'm becoming bitter toward women just because I criticize one, my XW, though... Let me be very clear, I dislike cheating filth, in all its forms. Not women.

 

[BoSlander]

My wife is a hugger. Very much a social butterfly. Hugs practically everyone she meets for more than 5 minutes (except some either she or I get a creeper vibe from).

But one wrong look, one hug just a little too long, one pat on the butt, or hands in wrong place and hell will break loose.

Slow dance with another man? Not a chance.

Her actions and my responses are what we've established as boundaries. Hard boundaries. She respects mine and I respect hers.

The initial post is not about what you think of how I acted in my case, I'm talking about YOUR experience of the relationship between YOUR wife/husband and her/his co-workers.

Needless to say, the way I acted during the wedding had more to do wanting to know the full extent of her relationship with her co-workers than anything else. I knew from the beginning that something was amiss and me going alpha on her from the beginning, at the time, would've driven her even more underground, so keeping my mouth shut and ears open was my modus operandi THAT DAY (not every day).

Again, I'm not looking for your opinion on the way I acted that day, I'm looking for your personal experience. The more situations we're able to describe to people the faster they will be able to understand what is going on in their marriage. I, for one, learned a lot from this forum and many of you during those fateful two weeks at the beginning of August. I learned in 2 weeks to 1) understand that it wasn't my fault, 2) that she was most likely cheating and 3) to pick myself up and move on. THIS is my point of reference. I hope this is the last time I have to say it because this "woman-hater" BS really takes away from the desperate people that come here for information.

 

[BoSlander]

your partners already know you, moreover, if I remember correctly, she had studied psychology, she knows how to bend people's ideas, she must have used you in her experiments for a long time.

the part that surprised me was you saw these and got drunk?

You proved to everyone that you are a weak idiot (I meant it means they said it), I think from that day on you were the laughing stock of your wife's friends and everyone understood why your wife cheated on you so easily!

It's their choice to cheat, but it's your choice to make yourself ridiculous after realizing it. instead of getting drunk you should have returned home, it would be a good choice to start leaving that evening.

however, as I said at the beginning, your partner knows you better than us and knew how to control your reactions.

Again.. I don't know why my commentary and response to the situation became the center of attention but... whatever... Look, since you took my comment out of context, allow me to re-center it for you: At the time of the wedding, my XW was acting up. I knew something was up but could not find anything because my XW was a master, and I mean a CIA spy-grade secrecy MASTER, at hiding things.

My hunt started at work because, at the time, I felt that that was the most likely place where something "weird" may be going on (I did not suspect adultery at the time). And I say "weird" because my wife was very involved in her co-workers lives up to about 10-11 years into our marriage, at which point she basically went mute. SO, the wedding represented a good opportunity for me to gather "intelligence" and I decided to go. I knew I was going to most likely see some f-ed up sh-t so I mentally prepared myself for the worst. So, I get to the wedding and I immediately see that my XW knows everyone. I see her jumping from group to group of people, having conversations and being very touchy-feely for my taste. Then, as the night progressed, she began to completely ignore me. And that's when I started to see the cheater behavior that I eventually stumbled upon. I mean, it took me YEARS to figure out how she was doing all of this (it was my mistake, I should've hired a PI) so I wanted to pick up as much behavior as possible without letting her know or see that I was observing her. OF COURSE, under normal circumstances she would not be dancing with another man and the men that slapped her in the but would have the white knocked out of their teeth, but I wasn't there that night to go full on MMA on anyone. I was there to see how my XW behaved when around her co workers.

Understood?

 

[BoSlander]

A lot of women like emotional connections and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of women are interested in other people they know just as friends. I just find it very peculiar when someone thinks you shouldn't have any friends. I don't think that's healthy. Just because you're that way doesn't mean someone else should be that way. It's fine for you but it probably wouldn't be fine for her.

I never said she shouldn't have any friends. What I am saying is that she had an emotional network set up at work and purposely kept it from me because she knew she wanted to get with some of the people there and that I would either get upset at her not tell me what her intentions were or I would get inquisitive (understandably) at who she was having those connections with.

This has NOTHING to do with healthy interpersonal relations.

 

[BoSlander]

Bo,

My wife works at an elementary school and has for 25 years. There is only one male there. However, I have seen some of what you describe. In particular, becoming very close with co-workers and being way too emotionally involved in each other's lives.

I work as a network engineer, where there is about a 50/50 of men and women at my office. On a daily basis, I work with other engineers, who are all male. I am friends with the guys I work with, but we do not hang together outside of work and are definitely not emotionally engaged.

I had to have a talk with my wife, who started coming home and telling me about her work day. My work day talk with her would be.... I set up X VM servers and put in a firewall, etc. Her talk would be.... Jan and Betty are being *****y, Mary is having problems XYZ with her husband, Emily is having an affair with her neighbor Bob.

I pointed out to her that I thought it was bizarre to get this invested in other people's lives. I got a bit angry and told her I am not interested in real life soap operas. I think, and this is just my opinion, women in general just love drama....be it on TV, in real life or in books.

I think this is why there's so much adultery in the workplace, because emotional connections are being made where there ought be none. My company is exactly like yours, we have zero investment in each other's personal life and are happy to have it that way. We even have classes that we need to take on an annual basis where we're explicitly told not to over engage on the personal stuff.

 

[BoSlander]

Because she knows you. But there's nothing wrong with her having a friend Network at work just because you don't like it. You are the outlier here. Having friends at work is pretty normal.

And I’m not saying otherwise. Again, the types of interpersonal relationships my wife was forging at work were the type of relationships that are unhealthy to the matrimony. No one, including me, is saying that people shouldn’t have friends at work, or a network of. What is being discussed here is when people go too far with those relationships and put themselves in places where things can and OFTEN do develop.

 

[BoSlander]

Tactic #4 — Isolation

Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.

speakoutloud.net

Ah, the myth of She The Victim! Never fails. If there’s one thing females really dislike, better yet, DESPISE, is not being able to use their sexual energy/advances to get what they want.

Let me put it to you this way: if a person has a choice, THERE IS NO CONTROL. Meaning, if I make my boundary clear to my SO, she has a choice of not accepting my decision and divorcing me.

Consequently, the isolation bit is most often used by overly flirty females when their SO ask them to take it down a few notches.

 

[BoSlander]

I think this is precisely one of the issues with high adultery rate workplaces like hospitals and schools: WAY overpaid people with insane benefit packages and WAY too much free time to engage in social innuendo.

I sure as hell know what it feels like: my ex is a school psychologist making close to what I make. At one point during our marriage she started making comments about her not needing me financially if need be… and it slowly grew on her that her life did not depend on the marriage. And so, just as with the financial part, she slowly began emotionally and romantically pivoting from the marriage to the school network of friends she had built at the school she was working at before she got out on disability.

Eventually, as is often the case, she went over the edge with the socializing part and started cheating with a coworker. And here we are: thanks to her coworker friends, she’s now on the way to getting divorced and depressed because the OM dumped her as soon as he found out I knew.

Talk about friendships.

 

[BoSlander]

Pretty common tactic used by the disordered, regardless of gender.

Funny thing is that I was the one with lots of friends when I first met my XW. She had, oddly enough, no female friends at all and only two male friends, one of which was her ex. And she, not me, SHE, started finding faults and issues with all my friends to the point that I only kept in touch with 2 or 3 of them.

And then, once the marriage was established, she started complaining about me not having any friends. Go figure!!

 

[BoSlander]

My experience is it is good for married people to have a variety of good friends.

On that experience my wife throughout her career, has made friends with some of her male and female work superiors, subordinates and colleagues. Some of these friendships, have remained through 30+ years, while others have existed for lesser times to now. Some of these friendships are also transitory as well.

My wife has kissed some of these people hello goodbye etc, she has hugged and been hugged by some of them and not by others as well. My wife also sometimes has lunch, or catches up for coffee with both camel and female work colleagues alone including some she is friends with. Some of these friends of hers both male and female, are also people that she cares for, and has good rapport with etc, which is what makes them friends. She also keeps in touch with them when she has time as well.

As for myself I am also friends with a number of different male and female current and former work superiors, subordinates, colleagues, contractors and some clients. Some of those friendships have lasted through 30+ years and for lesser time periods to now, and some of them are transitory as well.

I have kissed some of these people hello and goodbye etc, I have hugged some of them and have been hugged as well. I have slept over at some of their places (and that includes women), had lunch and dinner with some of them alone and caught up at cafes etc. Some of the people both male and female that I am still friends with, are people who I have seen get changed, have seen naked and some of them have seen me naked and getting changed as well. Not forgetting I have also showered with some of my male friends who I used to work with.

That said I still work with some people who I consider to be friends, who I have rapport with and care for them as well.

Both my wife and I think, that is all good for us.

Personal, thanks for the input but... I'm not talking about "normal" friendships, I'm talking about work relationships that eventually make it to the personal level and those involved keeping the intensity of those friendships as well as their meetings/dates or frequency being specifically kept secret from the main romantic relationship, either some of the time or all the time.

Which I believe is cheater behavior because if there's something cheaters are known for is minimizing ("she's just a friend" or "he's just a co worker" or "he's gay") and obfuscating ("I never told you because I didn't think you'd want to know" or "I didn't tell you because the phone ran out of battery").

 

[BoSlander]

I agree @BoSlander that keeping secrets from one’s spouse about developing a romantic/sexual relationship and obfuscating and telling lies and all the rest isn’t okay at all.

That's the thing with adultery, there is no "developing." Once the person realizes feelings are involved, it's already too late.

And though most workplace friendships involving married people, don’t turn into marital sexual infidelity, some of those friendships certainly do.

I would NOT say that. "19% of employees admitted to stepping out on their partner with a colleague at work, a surprising 44% of employees have known colleagues who had affairs at work or on business trips." Meaning 1 in every 5 MARRIED coworker is getting punani on the side. That's 10 in every 50 and 100 in every 500. And again, as the second part of the quoted text suggests, the 19% figure is probably wildly underestimated. Moreover, I would venture to say that professions with high adultery rates (schools, hospitals, military, etc) are closer to 2-3 out of every 5.

At the end of the day all you can tea do is be attentive and if something seems off, look into it, then determine what to do, based on the information that you have found.

And that's exactly the point of the OP, to find out what everyone's views are on this issue.

That said if someone finds they can’t trust their spouse, regardless of having ruled out or not, any bias towards being overly insecure, not trusting or any paranoia. I can’t see how wanting to hang onto a marriage with someone that one feels they can’t trust, is worth paying the ongoing costs to maintain.

Well, trust is the core issue behind the OP. When someone spends x amount of energy setting up and keeping up friendships at work and keeping that information secret, if the other person finds out, trust is out the window. Most people will say that these friendships are beneficial but, are they really? If you're going out for drinks after work with coworker friends and come home at 1AM to a previously horny but now fully asleep husband/wife... from an emotional and romantic standpoint, are you sure you're efficiently allocating your attention? Or are you putting yourself in places that only create doubt and mistrust?

 

[BoSlander]

Oh absolutely, although I have just never ended up being friends with a woman like that but I've heard about them and seen them. I have been friends with women who have men trying to isolate them, over and over.

Welcome to male life.

If there’s one thing a newlywed wife will do is, once the nest-building instinct gets going at full speed, is convince the husband to drop the friends and concentrate on the nest.

 

[BoSlander]

Absolutely not all of them at all. Only the ones with the same insecurity and pathology of the jealous possessive men.

They certainly exist. But I don't know any women who tried to keep their men from their friends. It just depends on what kind of people you attract I guess. I never let someone have pathological or possessive stay around me whether they were male or female.

“They certainly exist”???? Why don’t you do a survey of all men in this forum and try to find out if they’ve even been isolated by their SO.