No reputable marriage counsellor would offer marriage counselling when one partner is suspected of cheating. Why? Precisely because of what happened to you. See a divorce lawyer.
Signal private messenger usage - red flag? Update: YES, it is!
Update on page 2.
I need some input. Just figured out that my husband of 10 years uses the app Signal private messenger. I was able to see the time stamps when he is using that app and this included times such as 2:22AM , during night time and during the day.
It has been downloaded on April 28th and it's in regular use since then. As of right now there is no way I can confront him because he belongs to these people who blame "pop-up ads" for literally everything.
Any experience with this app? Any advice for me?
Thank you.
I need some input. Just figured out that my husband of 10 years uses the app Signal private messenger. I was able to see the time stamps when he is using that app and this included times such as 2:22AM , during night time and during the day.
It has been downloaded on April 28th and it's in regular use since then. As of right now there is no way I can confront him because he belongs to these people who blame "pop-up ads" for literally everything.
Any experience with this app? Any advice for me?
Thank you.
81 - 100 of 199 Posts
Yes. In that sense, the MC has given you all you need. I'm sorry.The fact that he used MC to go on the offensive and blame you for his affair should be all you need to know.
I don't agree that wayward spouses should be sent to IC. As if that was some kind of punishment. All that will happen is they will tell their version of the story, and get sympathy from the IC. Sympathy, and help in devising their "explanation" as to why "it happened".
I amThe fact that he used MC to go on the offensive and blame you for his affair should be all you need to know. This is also why the general consensus is, if you really want to try to save the marriage, the WS should go to IC with an infidelity specialist for a period of time before MC is considered. The marriage isn't broken, he is. Also sounds like you had a lousy MC, which is pretty common from what I can tell.
Hopefully this will help you realize that he's not worth sticking around for.-
What is IC?Yes. In that sense, the MC has given you all you need. I'm sorry.
I don't agree that wayward spouses should be sent to IC. As if that was some kind of punishment. All that will happen is they will tell their version of the story, and get sympathy from the IC. Sympathy, and help in devising their "explanation" as to why "it happened".
IC - individual counseling, MC - Marriage counseling.
I must say, I left there totally confused. I drove away and vented via text messages to my husband. I posted part of this conversation in another posting. I do not understand why the counselor (female, never have been cheated on) would focus on me and that I should get treated for my past trauma. My husband brought up the EMDR therapy and she fully took the bait. I was sitting there like a complete idiot. Mind you, she has a great reputation in our area. So this makes me wondering.Yes. In that sense, the MC has given you all you need. I'm sorry.
I don't agree that wayward spouses should be sent to IC. As if that was some kind of punishment. All that will happen is they will tell their version of the story, and get sympathy from the IC. Sympathy, and help in devising their "explanation" as to why "it happened".
@Mahon, you getting treatment for your past trauma and him committing adultery are two VERY SEPARATE topics .I must say, I left there totally confused. I drove away and vented via text messages to my husband. I posted part of this conversation in another posting. I do not understand why the counselor (female, never have been cheated on) would focus on me and that I should get treated for my past trauma. My husband brought up the EMDR therapy and she fully took the bait. I was sitting there like a complete idiot. Mind you, she has a great reputation in our area. So this makes me wondering.
Yes, for the good of mankind and your own personal growth it would be wise for you to take the time to deal with your past. Yep, EMDR might be helpful in doing that.
That IN NO WAY is an acceptable reason to commit adultery or the emotional abuse that accompanies adultery — such as ongoing lying to your partner, or gaslighting your partner to make them feel crazy for suspecting you, or picking fights so you can storm out and be with the AP, or blaming your partner for your own actions, or using DARVO to make yourself look like the victim.
These are all REAL techniques that are outright abuse that betrayed spouses endure at the hands of their partner. To fix the marriage, you would end that REAL abuse first, deal with the damage done by the abuse, and stop any further abuse!! Then, yep it would be wise for either spouse to deal with their pasts. But clearly the marriage will crumble if the abuse of adultery is allowed to continue.
Both asked me to define cheating. Because he says he didn't get physical with anyone. So, I had to explain myself why I considered his secretive actions behind my back is cheating to me. Plus, how can I truly know if he deleted all the messages? How do I know it never got physical if the coworker is there at work every day?@Mahon, you getting treatment for your past trauma and him committing adultery are two VERY SEPARATE topics .
Yes, for the good of mankind and your own personal growth it would be wise for you to take the time to deal with your past. Yep, EMDR might be helpful in doing that.
That IN NO WAY is an acceptable reason to commit adultery or the emotional abuse that accompanies adultery — such as ongoing lying to your partner, or gaslighting your partner to make them feel crazy for suspecting you, or picking fights so you can storm out and be with the AP, or blaming your partner for your own actions, or using DARVO to make yourself look like the victim.
These are all REAL techniques that are outright abuse that betrayed spouses endure at the hands of their partner. To fix the marriage, you would end that REAL abuse first, deal with the damage done by the abuse, and stop any further abuse!! Then, yep it would be wise for either spouse to deal with their pasts. But clearly the marriage will crumble if the abuse of adultery is allowed to continue.
My past trauma doesn't bother me. I had closure with all that. I don't even know how my husband was able to bring it up and to get the counselor on board with that. It was weird. The ONLY thing that bothers me are my husband's lies and secretive behavior. Or am I the crazy one?
No your not crazy! This is standard gaslighting and manipulation by the WS! Define what cheating is? Anything or anyone that a spouse allows to come between them and there partner IS cheating! Peiod. Absolutely no reason for secretive come. Suggest you dismiss the therapist and find a new.one asap. Oh and while your at it, kick his azz out of the bedroom. He hasn't earned the right to be in that bed.
I have my own appointment with a therapist on Tuesday. It's a different one and for me only. Yea, this counselor was also very unprepared. Didn't even read our client intake forms.No your not crazy! This is standard gaslighting and manipulation by the WS! Define what cheating is? Anything or anyone that a spouse allows to come between them and there partner IS cheating! Peiod. Absolutely no reason for secretive come. Suggest you dismiss the therapist and find a new.one asap. Oh and while your at it, kick his azz out of the bedroom. He hasn't earned the right to be in that bed.
Well, I moved out of the bedroom since day 1 of this fiasco. I am in the guestroom. I cleaned our garage and started to work out again to clear my head. I have been confused since yesterday and it threw me off. Also, my husband did not answer my question from yesterday:
This is just a part of our text conversation that we had after the counseling. I was venting. In the beginning he tried to convince me to contiune the counseling. When I went into my questions (which I really want an answer for), he got kinda quiet and barely responded. Maybe he got tired. He does this when he is tired and exhausted.
You sent
I couldn't see once that you were truly sorry for the hurt you caused. Not once. I sensed that you tried to minimize everything, and I was the cause.
HIM
I am sorry
You sent
Instead you painted me as an ungrateful, advantage taking, cold, controlling wife that should be lucky that you took on and fixed the damaged kids.
That's what you delivered today.
And anything else got minimized and downplayed.
You did an amazing job.
I was impressed how you did that.
HIM
I was explaining my hurt. You keep forgetting there are two hurt people
You sent
Why are you not trying to work it out with your ex?
HIM
I did not marry her
I married you
You sent
I know that. But obviously it's not going well. And she was heavy on your mind. Maybe y'all are a better fit.
HIM
I want you
We have had 9 Christmases
9 Thanksgivings
9 Easters
10 summers
I only have that with you
We worked together in Rockport (Disaster Response)
You sent
You can create these memories with her too or with XZ (Coworker he was texting back and forth). I am sure they will be super appreciative.
You sent
You didn't think of any of that when you lied to me.
See, love is exactly this...when you keep yourself in check and remind yourself that you could hurt your spouse by your actions behind the back.
HIM
Do you really think XZ (Coworker) and I have anything romantic going on?
You sent
And don't hurt your spouse with lies and betrayal
You sent
Can turn into an affair quickly and easily. You already met without my knowledge.
You sent
Too bad I can't remember your lie what you told me why you are gone.
It was a Saturday.
And I was home
HIM
This is why I think counseling is important. It helps me understand how I can be better for us
You sent
And I don't see you changing.
I will never know what was said on your many phone calls and signal messages and text messages.
YOU made sure I will not know
HIM
I hurt you with my carelessness
You sent
But why didn't you care? This was an act of someone who doesn't' really love. You knew it's hurtful to me. You thought I won't find out.
What will you do next time? Get a burner phone?
HIM
No
You sent
I need a truthful answer on this one. Just be honest for once. Why didn't you care? This was an act of someone who doesn't' really love. You knew it's hurtful to me. You thought I won't find out.
HIM
Is the question Why didn't I care?
You sent
Don't rush your answer.
HIM
I do care. I should not have responded to her email
You sent
I rather to receive a honest answer instead of just some words.
HIM
I will give it some thought.
I have to try to make sense in a way that makes sense
You sent
You didn't care about me when you kept things secretive. With your ex, coworker or online. I need to know why. Why don't you care then when you make decisions? Why are you sorry when I find out? You wouldn't be sorry one little bit if I didn't find out. I need an honest answer.
HIM
Ok.
I would flat-out call the counselor on getting on YOU because HE broke your trust. Flat out unadulterated BS.Both asked me to define cheating. Because he says he didn't get physical with anyone. So, I had to explain myself why I considered his secretive actions behind my back is cheating to me. Plus, how can I truly know if he deleted all the messages? How do I know it never got physical if the coworker is there at work every day?
My past trauma doesn't bother me. I had closure with all that. I don't even know how my husband was able to bring it up and to get the counselor on board with that. It was weird. The ONLY thing that bothers me are my husband's lies and secretive behavior. Or am I the crazy one?
This husband of yours is having secret conversations with his ex AND a coworker?
Meh, I’d just move on. Husbands don’t have secret conversations with exes and female coworkers after hours except for one reason: they want in their britches.
doesn’t matter at all if they were successful. It’s the effort to do it that’s just as bad as physically cheating. He’s not even acknowledging that he was trying to cheat.
He’s not worthy trouble.
Meh, I’d just move on. Husbands don’t have secret conversations with exes and female coworkers after hours except for one reason: they want in their britches.
doesn’t matter at all if they were successful. It’s the effort to do it that’s just as bad as physically cheating. He’s not even acknowledging that he was trying to cheat.
He’s not worthy trouble.
To be honest, it is a very difficult situation for a marriage counselor when they have no real way to know what the truth of the situation is. As MattMatt said, it's not really helpful to do counseling in that situation where the partners don't agree on what was done.
One thing I notice in your texts is you ask lots of "why" questions like "Why didn't you care?" Asking those "why" questions about someone else's feelings is usually not productive. It tends to shut things down, as above.
From what I've read in this thread, I guess I'd want to start with "do you both agree that he made phone calls and tried to keep them secret? Can we agree on that much?"
One thing I notice in your texts is you ask lots of "why" questions like "Why didn't you care?" Asking those "why" questions about someone else's feelings is usually not productive. It tends to shut things down, as above.
From what I've read in this thread, I guess I'd want to start with "do you both agree that he made phone calls and tried to keep them secret? Can we agree on that much?"
Al Capone has a 'great' reputationI must say, I left there totally confused. I drove away and vented via text messages to my husband. I posted part of this conversation in another posting. I do not understand why the counselor (female, never have been cheated on) would focus on me and that I should get treated for my past trauma. My husband brought up the EMDR therapy and she fully took the bait. I was sitting there like a complete idiot. Mind you, she has a great reputation in our area. So this makes me wondering.
What was in the email? She just contacted him first?You sent
I couldn't see once that you were truly sorry for the hurt you caused. Not once. I sensed that you tried to minimize everything, and I was the cause.
HIM
I am sorry
You sent
Instead you painted me as an ungrateful, advantage taking, cold, controlling wife that should be lucky that you took on and fixed the damaged kids.
…
HIM
I was explaining my hurt. You keep forgetting there are two hurt people
HIM
This is why I think counseling is important. It helps me understand how I can be better for us
You sent
And I don't see you changing.
I will never know what was said on your many phone calls and signal messages and text messages.
YOU made sure I will not know
HIM
I hurt you with my carelessness
You sent
I need a truthful answer on this one. Just be honest for once. Why didn't you care? This was an act of someone who doesn't' really love. You knew it's hurtful to me. You thought I won't find out.
HIM
Is the question Why didn't I care?
You sent
Don't rush your answer.
HIM
I do care. I should not have responded to her email
In that exchange he isn’t denying he was the cause, and admits counseling is for him. Also didn’t deny you will ever know what’s on those deleted messages, or deny that what’s on those messages would cause hurt. And that “carelessness” obviously didn’t extend to leaving those messages around.
Wow! Thats very deep and raw. You were right on point in all you said. You do deserve honest answers! We all do. Thats exactly what makes a relationship what it is. Honesty, trust, caring. Letting our partner see and feel the love we have for them. Mahon you said it beautifly
He did agree on that when it comes to the exchanges with the ex-fiance. With the co-worker, not so much. He asked if he "never should talk to anyone at work"? (He goes from one extreme to the other). That he was "just helping her". I did ask him, why you never told me about her? He usually mentions everyone he is interacting with. This one..never! I found her social media profiles and I understood. He knew exactly why he never told me about her. And this part hurts. I am not a crazy psycho who is jealous of every female that he interacts with. I am interacting with males as well, but I keep it short, none personal and it's all about business, and most importantly...it's transparent to my husband. He knows them all and no messages are deleted. I understand that temptations are out there, but it's on us how to respond and what to allow. Why did they even exchange numbers to begin with? Why did he sent her a picture of his cologne that he bought himself?To be honest, it is a very difficult situation for a marriage counselor when they have no real way to know what the truth of the situation is. As MattMatt said, it's not really helpful to do counseling in that situation where the partners don't agree on what was done.
One thing I notice in your texts is you ask lots of "why" questions like "Why didn't you care?" Asking those "why" questions about someone else's feelings is usually not productive. It tends to shut things down, as above.
From what I've read in this thread, I guess I'd want to start with "do you both agree that he made phone calls and tried to keep them secret? Can we agree on that much?"
I asked him my why questions because I really want to know. I want him to be honest because I don't buy his "I am sorry and I was careless".
I still didn't receive an answer. He had all weekend to think of something. He chose to stay in bed and binge-watching.Wow! Thats very deep and raw. You were right on point in all you said. You do deserve honest answers! We all do. Thats exactly what makes a relationship what it is. Honesty, trust, caring. Letting our partner see and feel the love we have for them. Mahon you said it beautif
Your husband has clearly been deceptive about his behavior with other women, many times.
What you have actually found is probably the tip of the iceberg.
It is fully reasonable to expect your spouse to NOT be secretive, especially when it comes interactions with those of the opposite sex.
Add to that, one of these women is his ex...! Once a couple has been physical in the past, it is very easy for them to move into that again... this is why ex's are so dangerous to keep in your life.
I think he is cheater. It is a major issue that he is not remorseful after being caught for his deceptions. This shows he justifies what he does in his mind, and blames you for catching him and messing up his secret world.
Option 1 - acknowledge that he is deceptive, realize that is not acceptable, cut him loose.
Option 2 - Force polygraph to prove to you that he is cheater, realize that is not acceptable, cut him loose.
Either way, you shouldn't accept this for a spouse.
What you have actually found is probably the tip of the iceberg.
It is fully reasonable to expect your spouse to NOT be secretive, especially when it comes interactions with those of the opposite sex.
Add to that, one of these women is his ex...! Once a couple has been physical in the past, it is very easy for them to move into that again... this is why ex's are so dangerous to keep in your life.
I think he is cheater. It is a major issue that he is not remorseful after being caught for his deceptions. This shows he justifies what he does in his mind, and blames you for catching him and messing up his secret world.
Option 1 - acknowledge that he is deceptive, realize that is not acceptable, cut him loose.
Option 2 - Force polygraph to prove to you that he is cheater, realize that is not acceptable, cut him loose.
Either way, you shouldn't accept this for a spouse.
Even though I understand the logical consequences, I am feeling very sad. He doesn't even seek conversation with me. It's like he only wants to deal with me at the counseling. He comes home and goes straight into his bedroom.
It also seems he logged out of his Google account. I am coming to the conclusion he is playing games. This is very disappointing and somehow unexpected too. I have a hard time to process this.
It also seems he logged out of his Google account. I am coming to the conclusion he is playing games. This is very disappointing and somehow unexpected too. I have a hard time to process this.
The only game he should be playing is solitaire, or as we Brits call, it Patience. As a divorced man.
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