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My husband wrote an email to his massage therapist in August and solicited a relationship, saying his intentions were purely "honorable" and that he had no interest in a "recreational" relationship. I found the email and on the advice of this board installed a keystroke logger and was able to access his work email account (different from personal account which I have pword to and which he stupidly left the massage therapist email in his sent folder). On the work account I found an email in 2008 written to a coworker asking her and her friend to meet him and his friend for drinks. This was a weekend I was out of town and he wrote in the email that I was out of town and that he wasn't going to tell me and that he was desperate for some "lighthearted fun". He wrote that if she wasn't interested he hoped she was flattered and that she would "burn after reading". I also found an email to this same coworker in May of this last year where he asked her to send him a friend invite on Facebook, saying he couldn't ask her to be a friend in case the "highly suspicious ball and chain" (meaning me) found it if he mistakenly left an email window open. I confronted him about the massage therapist email, printed it out and gave it to him, and he was remorseful and asked for forgiveness. I asked him at that time if he had every asked this coworker out and he said no, that he had only had coffee with her, but I didn't specifically say I knew about the emails to the coworker. We are doing better since the confrontation but I can't get these two emails to the coworker out of my mind, and for some reason lately its wearing on me. It almost feels worse than the massage therapist incident because I have met the coworker and its humiliating for him to speak of me this way to her. I am not sure what to do at this point. He won't go to marriage counseling and basically wants to continue forward as if nothing happened. We have two kids and I want to try to stay married to keep our family together but these emails are eating me up. I am watching his emails now and I see no evidence that he is contacting anyone else. Should I confront him about the coworker emails or just let it go? Since I got into that account using a keystroke logger it will be difficult to explain how I saw the coworker emails and he will be defensive and point the finger at me for spying on him. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

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I would print them out and lay them on the keyboard for him. Make sure to be there when he finds them. Ask him why he might think that you are "highly suspicious".

Then let the "real" discussion begin...
 

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Yes he is . He works in a hospital and she is a nurse there. They don't work side by side but run into each other sometimes. I'm not sure if she met him for drinks or anything else back in 2008 as I never saw a reply. I found another email where they met for coffee in 2010.
 

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moogvo how do I explain how I found the emails? I used a keystroke logger to get into his work email after I found the personal email message to the massage therapist.
 

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You don't need to explain yourself. Believe me... He will have his mind in overdrive trying to think up some way to get out of it. If he does ask, tell him not to avoid the real topic at hand.

I told my wife a long time ago that if she cheats, I would find out and that I had references. She did end up testing me and I held true to my word!
 

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Why are you worrying about how you found the emails?

Tell him you got suspicious because of something else you'd seen and you checked his work emails out.

I wouldn't worry about him asking you about your detective work, I would be watching his face when he has to read those emails to his co-worker out to you!

Seriously, don't feel bad, you had a reason to look and you were proved right.....its justified in my opinion.

Over the past year I have done things I never dreamed of, but when needs must and you can't trust, then you have to use every resource available.

Tough on him if he doesn't like that you felt you had to do this!
 

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Do you buy his remorse re the massage therapist? Did his express or convey shame? or was it more in the way saying the right things to get you to 'move along'?

As for the disrespectful 'ball & chain" comment - I wouldn't put A LOT of stock in the comment. Married men, usually in a show of bravado, refer to their spouses in less than glowing terms - much as I suspect, wives 'complain' about their husbands.

I'll grant that these less than stellar references are usually to other men not to other women - but it depends on how in tune these two co-workers are. Some connections are so close references such as "office wife" are made. (One of my close co-workers being one - although I've since stopped that).

I don't think you should expose the found emails but don't let them go either. Instead you might want to explore with your husband (in depth) the motivation for the massage email and how he justified keeping it's contents from you.

That conversation can lead you to ask if there are any other emails present or past he'd like to divulge to you. That this is the time to clear the decks and that any future inappropriate communications will force you to consider very seriously divorce. Let him suggest counseling. It'll be telling if he does - but I wouldn't force it at this time.

And it may be that he really forgot those other emails - but it would be doubtful. If he's not forthcoming then let it go and keep checking the logger regularly.


You know (or think you do) his demeanor and sense of humor.
 

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Moogvo he will be indignant and call me a snoop, etc. He will turn it around on me and storm out, I'm pretty sure. So I have to wonder if its worth it. But knowing that he did this and spoke of me so disrespectfully is eating at me. I've already seen 3 attorneys to get advice. I feel he should be humble and ask for forgiveness, but he will likely blame me, since he has blamed all marriage problems on me from the start.
 

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Walkonmars....so if I see no other inappropriate activity let it go? He will say he had one foot out the door when he wrote the massage therapist (who rebutted him btw, I saw her very professional reply and almost wrote her a thank you email). Our relationship has been rocky for the 9 years. I asked him if he had every asked the coworker out and he said no, had only gone for coffee. He might have forgotten that he did this in 2008, but I think it still says a lot about his character that he would do this.
 

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walkonmars -- there is also no room for "in depth" conversations. He can't stand to discuss anything emotional and tells me "this conversation is over" or "enough with the drama". So I can't hold out any hope that he would discuss anything more at length, and we've done marriage counseling without much success and he already told me hes not going back.
 

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Moogvo he will be indignant and call me a snoop, etc. He will turn it around on me and storm out, I'm pretty sure.
Not to sound flippant, but, so what? He sent them through his work email to hide them from you. All he needs to know is that inappropriate contact CAN'T be hidden...you will ALWAYS know, however he tries to bury it.
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Walkonmars....so if I see no other inappropriate activity let it go? He will say he had one foot out the door when he wrote the massage therapist (who rebutted him btw, I saw her very professional reply and almost wrote her a thank you email). Our relationship has been rocky for the 9 years. I asked him if he had every asked the coworker out and he said no, had only gone for coffee. He might have forgotten that he did this in 2008, but I think it still says a lot about his character that he would do this.
No not if the relationship has been rocky. I thought that maybe things were just fine and it was 'one of those things' that well adjusted people sometimes screw up. If things have been rocky then I think you should do what a few have suggested and demand an honest accounting for the emails. I wouldn't answer ANY questions he has about how you found out. Your answer to these questions should be "I won't even consider answering any question until we resolve the issues that threatens our marriage first so let's hear what these are about. I'm embarrassed to have to ask you to 'please be honest' "

If you think he will be honest you may want to set the mood for the talk as a cleansing the marriage talk. "I want to get this email issue off the table and I'm willing, even wanting to forgive you but I must know that this is the time for you to reveal things that a wife should know about their husband." If you think it's going to be a whitewash then just ask for an explanation and watch the body language and subsequent actions. I wouldn't challenge and definitely don't reveal the source. "I'll let you know later" or "why does that bother you? is there something else I need to know?"
 

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My husband wrote an email to his massage therapist in August and solicited a relationship, saying his intentions were purely "honorable" and that he had no interest in a "recreational" relationship. I found the email and on the advice of this board installed a keystroke logger and was able to access his work email account (different from personal account which I have pword to and which he stupidly left the massage therapist email in his sent folder). On the work account I found an email in 2008 written to a coworker asking her and her friend to meet him and his friend for drinks. This was a weekend I was out of town and he wrote in the email that I was out of town and that he wasn't going to tell me and that he was desperate for some "lighthearted fun". He wrote that if she wasn't interested he hoped she was flattered and that she would "burn after reading". I also found an email to this same coworker in May of this last year where he asked her to send him a friend invite on Facebook, saying he couldn't ask her to be a friend in case the "highly suspicious ball and chain" (meaning me) found it if he mistakenly left an email window open. I confronted him about the massage therapist email, printed it out and gave it to him, and he was remorseful and asked for forgiveness. I asked him at that time if he had every asked this coworker out and he said no, that he had only had coffee with her, but I didn't specifically say I knew about the emails to the coworker. We are doing better since the confrontation but I can't get these two emails to the coworker out of my mind, and for some reason lately its wearing on me. It almost feels worse than the massage therapist incident because I have met the coworker and its humiliating for him to speak of me this way to her. I am not sure what to do at this point. He won't go to marriage counseling and basically wants to continue forward as if nothing happened. We have two kids and I want to try to stay married to keep our family together but these emails are eating me up. I am watching his emails now and I see no evidence that he is contacting anyone else. Should I confront him about the coworker emails or just let it go? Since I got into that account using a keystroke logger it will be difficult to explain how I saw the coworker emails and he will be defensive and point the finger at me for spying on him. Any advice would be appreciated.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You prevented your own healing! You sabotaged your reconciliation! We betrayed spouses are a loony bunch, aren't we? :)

Yes, you have to tell him about the emails. You should have told him a long time ago.

You are going to have to answer, eventually, how you got the emails. You could take your husband's wonderful example and lie through your teeth. You could say you got them in the mail. You could say he left his work email open at home. Personally, I vote for the truth. I would also add if he farts in the wrong direction you will know about it and if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have cheated on you. Tell him he should be glad he didn't wake up duct taped to the bed and give him a freaky look. He may be completely distracted after that trying to remember the last place he used the duct tape so he can pitch it in the trash. :smthumbup:

The choice is yours, but you have to tell him, right away.

I am sorry your husband cheated on you. I am almost more sorry you weren't honest about it all since he isn't fooling around anymore and it is possible you could be doing so much better now! /smack

*hugs*
 

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Falene, thank you for your reply. I wasnt clear in my first post. The email asking the coworker out for drinks was written in 2008 but I didn't find it till this past Aug when I put a keystroke logger on his laptop after I found the email to the massage therapist. I only confronted him directly about the email to the massage therapist. As for the coworker, I asked if he ever asked her out and he lied and said no and I let it drop because there was too much emotion about the massage therapist during that conversation. I don't know that he actually cheated on me. The massage therapist rebutted him. The coworker may or may have gone out for drinks with him and his friend, and it may or may not have gone beyond that. He says he has never had a physical affair. He has asked for forgiveness for hurting me. But because I never specifically confronted him about the coworker emails, they've been eating at me. Things have been better between us, so now I'm trying to decide if I should rock the boat about emails he wrote in 2008 and 2010 and this past May (the "ball and chain email").
 

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Yes he is . He works in a hospital and she is a nurse there. They don't work side by side but run into each other sometimes. I'm not sure if she met him for drinks or anything else back in 2008 as I never saw a reply. I found another email where they met for coffee in 2010.
oh, drat. More hospital infidelity! :(

Your husband has not been honest with you.

I'd never call my honey a ball and chain. Sounds like he was bigging himself up.

You could expose him and her to HR, I suppose.
 

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TryingtoUnderstand:

Your anguish comes through very clearly. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Upon re-reading your initial post and subsequent posts I see you husband in a different light and it's not flattering - not at all.

1st. You say the therapist rebuffed his 'come-on' soundly. That tells me he's got a lot of brass to ask such a thing of a professional - and to me that doesn't show the least reluctance to 'just ask'. This begs the question - Who else has he asked in person? The receptionist at work? The candy-stripper? The waitress? (I'm not trying to alarm you but you must see that it took a lot of nerve to ask such a thing of an otherwise stranger.

2. His reluctance, according to you, to have an honest discussion. Why does he avoid it? Something to hide? A guilty conscience? No respect for you or your marriage?

3. His bully-tactics - "stop the drama!"; no attempt to engage in MC.

Other than 'habit' is there a reason you would want to continue in such a relationship with such a man? I still recommend you proceed with questioning about the emails - but take no abuse - verbal or emotional land certainly not physical. Accept no threats. Don't beg or plead. Ask respectfully and answer respectfully - don't be lured into an argument - walk away when he becomes heated: "I'm taking a break, when you calm down we can continue this discussion"

In the meantime you may want to reconsider what you find good in your marriage and in your husband. Be prepared to include them in your discussion if things go civilly. "I've always thought you were good at xxx (problem solving; facing issues head-on; respecting our home ? anything else you truly find good) so I hope you will use that talent at helping us resolve this problem"

Don't let him make the issue "Your problem" if he does remind him it's "our problem" because what endangers the marriage endangers you both.

Do you have family nearby that can support you for a day or two? If so, you might ask if you can spend a day or two at their place in the next few day - that way if things go really bad you can have a place to go. If you think things may go this way then prepare a small overnight bag and put it in the trunk of your car. If you have to leave for a day or two you can avoid his wrath and just walk out the door. Ask him to not contact you until he's willing to discuss the issues honestly and openly.


The suggestions I've made will escalate the tension - at least temporarily. Consider some of these actions and do them only if you think you won't suddenly turn around and drop everything in a day or two. I don't want to ruin your marriage so if things are not nearly as bad as I've said then don't escalate.
 

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Falene, thank you for your reply. I wasnt clear in my first post. The email asking the coworker out for drinks was written in 2008 but I didn't find it till this past Aug when I put a keystroke logger on his laptop after I found the email to the massage therapist. I only confronted him directly about the email to the massage therapist. As for the coworker, I asked if he ever asked her out and he lied and said no and I let it drop because there was too much emotion about the massage therapist during that conversation. I don't know that he actually cheated on me. The massage therapist rebutted him. The coworker may or may have gone out for drinks with him and his friend, and it may or may not have gone beyond that. He says he has never had a physical affair. He has asked for forgiveness for hurting me. But because I never specifically confronted him about the coworker emails, they've been eating at me. Things have been better between us, so now I'm trying to decide if I should rock the boat about emails he wrote in 2008 and 2010 and this past May (the "ball and chain email").
You are most welcome and I understood correctly.

Under the idea those mails are driving you nuts, I still think that you should tell him about the mails. For him? Nope. For you? Absolutely. I think for the marriage to have the absolute best chance of surviving, you need to free your soul from them. More importantly, for you to feel the best that you can feel you should tell him about them.

If they are causing you no issue, I see no reason in playing your hand about the key logger which I would still be checking if I were you. It is good medicine to check up on your WS to find he wasn't doing anything you needed to check up on. :)
 

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Try to think of some way other than a keylogger. As someone suggested, he left his email open on the family computer. Or could someone have forwarded them to you?

Another tactic is just to say you know he asked her out when you were out of town that weekend. He will bluff, and you can tell him you have a polygraph scheduled for an hour from now (and do have it scheduled). Tell him if he is telling you the truth he has nothing to fear from the polygraph.

I'll tell you what I see in your posts. You are afraid of getting to the real truth, and you are afraid of making him upset at you. Which means you are fearing divorce. You would rather eat the **** sandwich if the alternative is divorce. This is no way to live! It is what I have done for at least 25 years of my 30 year marriage. If divorce is not an option for you, he can get away with anything, and he will know it and he will do it.

To get to the truth with him and to ensure he walks the line in the future, you have to be strong and you have to scare him. It means you have to take the chance of the marriage blowing up, but knowing that if it does it would have at a later date in a worse way. So it is better to get the bad news now. You have to go into the confrontation not knowing what will happen (and it will go in directions you don't predict). You have to accept that you cannot control the outcome of the confrontation. Trust the process. Put yourself higher in priority than his emotional comfort.
 
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