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August 2014, my wife told me this recent ex-coworker had called her and asked her out to a "late lunch" around 2pm so they could have drinks after eating (off the clock at 3pm). I asked her, "Alone?" and she said yes. I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel. A few days later, she sat down and told me SHE cancelled it like she said she would. Later I found out HE canceled it due to a family emergency. Why lie?

After this, and other red flags in retrospect, I went into full investigation mode (VARs, looking for deleted texts, etc)....and nothing turned up.

A month later, I found on her calendar she was going out to lunch with him alone. I waited to see if she'd tell me after. Nope. She actually told me she went to lunch with a GROUP of coworkers. Another lie. So a few days later, she went out with me and got smashing drunk, I told her the next morning she talked about the lunch (a small ruse. she hadn't, but I didn't want to reveal my source for future use). She apologized and agreed to 100% transparency.

She invited him to a xmas get together with current coworkers, told me, and invited me. I went, and it was uneventful.

Then he seems to be texting her every two months, asking for lunch, checking in, etc.

This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission. I decided to monitor the situation as not to drive anything underground. Then nothing again until October. She told me he contacted her for lunch, and was that ok? I was glad she was transparent, and she went.

This December, she has a xmas outing planned, I told her couldn't make it. Well, she calls this guy the next day. She never mentioned it to me. So, I decided to show up as a surprise (not sure what I expected to see), and he was there, with about a half dozen others. I didn't really bring it up until a week later, and she said she didn't think it was a problem because they weren't alone. I get the feeling I never would have heard he was there.

Now here's the thing....I can check her work calendar, so I've caught these lunches on a VAR. And they are 'clean' . There's no flirting, no negative talk about spouses, just a lot of talk about work, life, and stuff the kids are doing. A bit too much talk from him about how much he misses her soooo mmucchhh (she returns the thought), how she is such a friend, and a lot of over the top ego stroking about how great she is, but only in a professional work sense.

is he keeping her as a back burner option? is she naive when she says he's just a friend (or am I?), is this a long term player technique? I'm thinking he really is 'just a friend' because frequency of communication is so low,or a networking brown-noser. but the lies are disturbing

thoughts? next steps?
 

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Your wife should not be doing anything that makes you uncomfortable.

She is lying, and is at the very least minimizing her relationship with this coworker.

mcquestion, if your gut tells you that something is amiss, then it probably is. Always trust your gut. It will rarely lead you wrong.

I think she is having an inappropriate relationship with this man, that could be slowly sliding into an emotional affair.
 

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Oh, boy. Been there.

What I would do:

"Wife, I know you feel like you need to hide your relationship with this guy from me because I'm not cool with it. And I'm not cool with it, but I'm even more not cool with you not being honest with me about it. I'm going to ask you to be honest with me about it, and honest with me about why you're not willing to give up your relationship with him. In return, I will commit to be willing to hear you out, even if I don't like or agree with what you're saying."

And then I would stop talking and hear her out, and once she's done I would nod and leave the room.

And then I would go absolutely dark about the issue and maintain vigilance. I'd ditch the VARs and all that because that level of intrusion and paranoia is probably too far.

But the next time I caught her lying about seeing him or inviting him... it would probably be a difficult conversation. For her.
 

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McQuestion,

What do you know about this OM, has he cheated with other co-workers, is he divorced, if he is married or has a girlfriend do they know about this communication and contact. OM, especially serial cheaters, often have a system that they work and are always on the lookout for prospects or weaknesses.

There is a possibility your W had a one time physical encounter with this guy, after drinking perhaps, could have been kissing, but it would still be enough to plant a seed of desire.

Did your sex life with your W dwindle to nothing at some time in the past perhaps for a month or two, with not explanation given?

Tamat
 

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I would often times text a female "friend" of mine. I use quotation marks because she really wasn't a friend. She was someone in whom I allowed into my life because she was attractive and showed me attention. Although I never had sex or even liked her (or anyone) on an emotional level, what I did was wrong. The conversations were rather innocuousness, by and large .She would come to my office, when I was there by myself, and talk. The crazy thing is, I knew what the score was. I knew why she was doing it, and looking back on it at this moment, it's ever so apparent. She would inch ever so closely to me when I was talking. Yet, I didn't see the whole of the danger. I would often talk about my wife and how I wouldn't cheat on her and all of that. Looking back on it now, the danger was 10/10. While it was happening, I was so absorbed with the attention that I knew there was danger but unsure on how much. Paradoxically, I suppose, one could say I was talking about not cheating, all the while affecting my marriage adversely. I could've easily made a move, even the slightest, and went to a place from which I could never return. I was strong-willed enough to not go through with it, despite my emotionless marriage. A lot of people I know were not able. I had many encounters JUST LIKE THAT. I knew what I was doing, yet unaware of the mortal danger until years later. If things aren't good at home, they may be bleeding into things like what's happening to you right now. Looking for attention, enjoying that attention. The lies to cover it all up.

TL;DR. It's a player technique. I've been there. Your wife may be willing to run around but unsure what the guy wants. I know I am glad that my situation described above didn't make an overt move. Don't wait to nip this in the bud. DO. IT. NOW.
 

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There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. This usually has a very slippery slope to something really bad happening. Depending how you look at it, it's already an EA. I would continue the hard core monitoring because you can't at this point know what she is doing. I would make it clear that this is not acceptable and if it does occur anyway, you'll have a decision to make.
 
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So you don't have a relationship of Trust. Your relationship is on a very shifty foundation. What will you do about it?

BTW the OM looks like a master manipulator. That could be your insecurity painting the picture, or he may have an agenda. Wife has poor boundaries.
 

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I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel.
A month later, I found on her calendar she was going out to lunch with him alone. I waited to see if she'd tell me after. Nope. She actually told me she went to lunch with a GROUP of coworkers. Another lie. So a few days later, she went out with me and got smashing drunk, I told her the next morning she talked about the lunch (a small ruse. she hadn't, but I didn't want to reveal my source for future use). She apologized and agreed to 100% transparency.
This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission. I decided to monitor the situation as not to drive anything underground. Then nothing again until October. She told me he contacted her for lunch, and was that ok? I was glad she was transparent, and she went.
This December, she has a xmas outing planned, I told her couldn't make it. Well, she calls this guy the next day. She never mentioned it to me.
She keeps seeing him behind your back even after she has promised you "100% transparency". By definition this makes your wife's relationship with this other man ("OM") inappropriate.

She is married so the OM cannot go after your wife directly without first being her friend. If you look at any of the many sites on how to steal another man's woman, the advice always given is to first be their friend and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. One site titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”, says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” This and other such sites tell you that no one is perfect so that no matter who her man is, there will be issues that they can exploit. For example, one site said "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes”, and continues with “If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Similarly, another site said "You want to make the girl you want to steal away feel like she can do a lot better than the guy she is currently with. How do you do this? It is quite easy. You want to wait for the perfect opportunity to get your jabs in.” This other man has targeted your wife. Tell her that since she has a history of being dishonest with you about her relationship with this OM, you no longer want her to still stay in contact with him going forward.
 

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August 2014, my wife told me this recent ex-coworker had called her and asked her out to a "late lunch" around 2pm so they could have drinks after eating (off the clock at 3pm). I asked her, "Alone?" and she said yes. I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel. A few days later, she sat down and told me SHE cancelled it like she said she would. Later I found out HE canceled it due to a family emergency. Why lie?

After this, and other red flags in retrospect, I went into full investigation mode (VARs, looking for deleted texts, etc)....and nothing turned up.

A month later, I found on her calendar she was going out to lunch with him alone. I waited to see if she'd tell me after. Nope. She actually told me she went to lunch with a GROUP of coworkers. Another lie. So a few days later, she went out with me and got smashing drunk, I told her the next morning she talked about the lunch (a small ruse. she hadn't, but I didn't want to reveal my source for future use). She apologized and agreed to 100% transparency.

She invited him to a xmas get together with current coworkers, told me, and invited me. I went, and it was uneventful.

Then he seems to be texting her every two months, asking for lunch, checking in, etc.

This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission. I decided to monitor the situation as not to drive anything underground. Then nothing again until October. She told me he contacted her for lunch, and was that ok? I was glad she was transparent, and she went.

This December, she has a xmas outing planned, I told her couldn't make it. Well, she calls this guy the next day. She never mentioned it to me. So, I decided to show up as a surprise (not sure what I expected to see), and he was there, with about a half dozen others. I didn't really bring it up until a week later, and she said she didn't think it was a problem because they weren't alone. I get the feeling I never would have heard he was there.

Now here's the thing....I can check her work calendar, so I've caught these lunches on a VAR. And they are 'clean' . There's no flirting, no negative talk about spouses, just a lot of talk about work, life, and stuff the kids are doing. A bit too much talk from him about how much he misses her soooo mmucchhh (she returns the thought), how she is such a friend, and a lot of over the top ego stroking about how great she is, but only in a professional work sense.

is he keeping her as a back burner option? is she naive when she says he's just a friend (or am I?), is this a long term player technique? I'm thinking he really is 'just a friend' because frequency of communication is so low,or a networking brown-noser. but the lies are disturbing

thoughts? next steps?
She is cheating you. She is cheating you out of a good, loving trusting relationship.

If there's nothing wrong with what she does, why the lies? Actually, you know something, there is something wrong with it. And you know what it is, don't you. It's the lies. They are wrong.

Hang on! A thought. Is she using Mr Innocent Dupe in order to misdirect you? Sort of like a magician tricking their audience?
 

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I think he is grooming her and she is really enjoying the attention and flattery. You're raining on her parade, so she keeps hiding it.

She's jeopardizing her marriage with this stupidity. I think she needs a serious ultimatum with serious consequences. You have to be willing to follow through with those serious consequences.
 

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If the roles were reversed and you were caught lying over and over again how do you think she would be feeling and acting? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

The bottom line is that she is dating him at times and constantly invites him to events. What is wrong with this picture.
 

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If you are not comfortable with what she is doing (most would agree with you) -then you must tell her to stop.

But...whatever consequences you promise will come to pass in the event of another transgression...you MUST be prepared to fully follow-up with. For example...if you decide that this is your hill to die on (which it sounds like it could/should be)...and tell her that any other attempt to contact or return contact of this man will end your marriage....you better sure as hell have the papers drawn up and ready. if you DO NOT follow through...she will never -ever-respect a damn thing you say.

It's all on you at this point. How many times must you catch her lying before she is a liar? 2, 3, 1000?

How many times does she get to go see him /against your will/ without consequences? 2, 5, 1000?

You will either accept her behavior or you won't. It's all on you to decide.
 

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I know a female work colleague who sometimes has lunch with a former male colleague.

The difference? She always tells her boyfriend about it beforehand.
That's the way it should be..

My wife works within my families business...it's a very male dominated field. She sometimes takes her crew to lunch -they are all male. Difference...I always know about it. She often encourages them to invite their partners as well.

It's about the transparency....also known as simple respect for your spouse.
 

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I have an ex female co-worker that I texted today to go for coffee. I worked with her for 16 years. I know her husband well and we also worked at the same place. When I meet her for coffee, I always let my wife know and she lets her husband know. We take turns paying but it is never considered a "date". We just like to keep caught up.
Yes, she is good looking and if we were both single we might even date.
We both have boundaries and stick to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #16
McQuestion,

What do you know about this OM, has he cheated with other co-workers, is he divorced, if he is married or has a girlfriend do they know about this communication and contact. OM, especially serial cheaters, often have a system that they work and are always on the lookout for prospects or weaknesses.


Tamat
He is married. Divorce once before, not sure why.

At first, when my wife first met him, she starting talking about him and the country he is from, the food, etc. (reddish flag, right?). Then it was, “hey, I’d like you to meet him and his wife, he invited us over”. Cool. Then it was “Oh, he forgot he was having a few friends over that day, is that ok?” Cool, no problem. Then the next few days I get this fancy printed invitation to his kids christening at a big hall for that date. Now, I’m not a big party guy, or religious guy, but I’m not sure why she felt the need to lie to me about the event (first lie about this guy!). We got in a fight about that lie, and she wound up going, talking our kids (I was ok with that). Then she invited them over for dinner a month later, no red flags, but my radar really wasn’t up back then.

Five months later I saw him was at her company picnic. We ran into them, and he seemed very strange. Like, he wasn’t looking me in the eye? His wife was about 15ft away wrangling the kids, so we kinda just waved at each other. After a few minutes of talking, his wife walks up to me slowly, and gives me a big hug…it almost seemed like she wanted to say something, but didn’t? weird. But again, this was before the drinking date request, so at the time I didn’t think too much about it.

Oh, our sex life has always been all my initiative. That’s originally why I started lurking around the marriage boards. But it didn’t change either way around the time she met him. I’ve put an effort in for the last couple years and we seem to be at 1 or 2 times a week.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. /QUOTE]

I’m usually pretty easy going about this stuff. She works in a male dominated tech industry, so she always has had tons of male coworkers that are friends. But I don’t remember her ever going out for drinks alone with them. Lunch, sure. Group happy hours? Yep. So do I, it’s part of work. This guy is not a coworker anymore.

I was careful when the drink date came up not to ‘forbid’ it or say she needs my permission. I was clear that I was ‘uncomfortable with it’. She was the one who quickly agreed to cancel it. Actually, it’s weird she agreed, usually she’s really stubborn. Made she was giving me a little fitness test or passing it by me for my tacit approval? Or realized it was wrong?

When I busted her for the ‘just lunch’ that was the first thing she said, “WE DIDN’T DRINK!!”. Loopholes…same with the xmas meeting, “Oh, I thought you meant only if I was seeing him alone”. Ok, Miss Literal.
 

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There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. /QUOTE]

I’m usually pretty easy going about this stuff. She works in a male dominated tech industry, so she always has had tons of male coworkers and friends. But I don’t remember her ever going out for drinks alone with them. Lunch, sure. Group happy hours? Yep. So do I, it’s part of work. This guy is not a coworker anymore.

I was careful when the drink date came up not to ‘forbid’ it or say she needs my permission. I was clear that I was ‘uncomfortable with it’. She was the one would quick agreed to cancel it. Actually, it’s weird she agreed, usually she’s really stubborn. Made she was giving me a little fitness test or passing it by me for my tacit approval? Or realized it was wrong?

When I busted her for the ‘just lunch’ that was the first thing she said, “WE DIDN’T DRINK!!”. Loopholes…same with the xmas meeting, “Oh, I thought you meant only if I was seeing him alone”. Ok, Miss Literal.
WTH does drinking or not drinking have to do with the price of eggs in China? Nothing. The fact remains your W is conducting an affair in plain sight. Although she may not believe so.
 

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He is married. Divorce once before, not sure why.

At first, when my wife first met him, she starting talking about him and the country he is from, the food, etc. (reddish flag, right?). Then it was, “hey, I’d like you to meet him and his wife, he invited us over”. Cool. Then it was “Oh, he forgot he was having a few friends over that day, is that ok?” Cool, no problem. Then the next few days I get this fancy printed invitation to his kids christening at a big hall for that date. Now, I’m not a big party guy, or religious guy, but I’m not sure why she felt the need to lie to me about the event (first lie about this guy!). We got in a fight about that lie, and she wound up going, talking our kids (I was ok with that). Then she invited them over for dinner a month later, no red flags, but my radar really wasn’t up back then.

Five months later I saw him was at her company picnic. We ran into them, and he seemed very strange. Like, he wasn’t looking me in the eye? His wife was about 15ft away wrangling the kids, so we kinda just waved at each other. After a few minutes of talking, his wife walks up to me slowly, and gives me a big hug…it almost seemed like she wanted to say something, but didn’t? weird. But again, this was before the drinking date request, so at the time I didn’t think too much about it.

Oh, our sex life has always been all my initiative. That’s originally why I started lurking around the marriage boards. But it didn’t change either way around the time she met him. I’ve put an effort in for the last couple years and we seem to be at 1 or 2 times a week.
Here's what I think.

Your wife likes this guy. It may a physical attraction, it may be an emotional attraction, or it may just be that she thinks he's cool in a totally non-romantic way.

It's probably pretty likely that this dude has been thinking to himself for a while "what's up with this chick?" And said as much to his wife, prompting the reaction.

I mean, it could be a gaint conspiracy to gain your wife's trust and start swinging, but I doubt it.

I think your wife has a crush on this dude.

And I think you weighing in and being too heavy about this particular dude may be triggering a rebellious response in your wife. That's what happened to me.

It isn't about this dude, and this dude may not want to be sucked into this drama at all.

It's about your wife hiding **** from you. It could be because she's up to something, or because she doesn't feel safe telling you, or it could be "I'm not doing anything wrong and he should trust me" kind of rebellious thinking.

Tell her a variant of what I said above. Be open. But firm.

No ultimatums. No effort on your part to control her behaviour.

There's a vast difference between clearly communicating boundaries and controlling her behaviour.

And making it all about this dude makes him that much more attractive, and gives him all the power.

My wife also played games with words -- like a lawyer. "That didn't count because you didn't say that exact situation." Don't play that game. Be clear that your #1 expectation is transparency and honesty, and #2 that she respect your boundaries, just like you respect hers.
 
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